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Windows 8 Video Preview

Snowdog said:
Odd, I got my first computer thirty years ago and it had sound and color and so did each one since.

You must have been about Negative 8 years old when you got your first computers.
Click to expand...

They were old IBMs with a shitty monitor :p
 
Looks like my next monitor will have to be 8", or I will quickly develop RSI from waving my arms at a big screen like an idiot. Also I'll have to keep a stack of, say several hundred of those magic wipe things to keep the monitor clean from smudges.

Basically, what's best for a 3.7" phone screen might not be the best for a 27" monitor on a desk.
 
JimmiG said:
Looks like my next monitor will have to be 8", or I will quickly develop RSI from waving my arms at a big screen like an idiot. Also I'll have to keep a stack of, say several hundred of those magic wipe things to keep the monitor clean from smudges.

Basically, what's best for a 3.7" phone screen might not be the best for a 27" monitor on a desk.
Click to expand...

It really isn't the intent that everyone will start using touchscreen monitors. Using touchscreen on desktop creates the famous "Gorilla Arm" problem.

This interface is supposed to work equally well with mouse/KB (dubious IMO). Touch for things you hold (phones/tablets) KB/Mouse for things with vertical screens.
 
Where is this stuff about the Metro UI not suitable for large screens coming from? A picture is worth a thousand words:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wp7_musicvideo.jpg

Metro was designed to scale to different screen sizes from the ground up. From what started with the little Zune HD is about to become the biggest change ever in computer UIs.
 
I feel like people are not considering

a) this is not the only useful feature

b) microsoft has you covered giving you a ipad like experience, but if there is that one program that makes you take your laptop with you, now you don't

c) They will avoid so many licensing problems. The hulu.com bs, media center recordings, itunes video files, etc.
 
Not to shove the rod up any of your asses any more than it already is, but that you took what that woman was saying in that demo and twisted it. Like it or not she was saying that this new start screen will always come up with you log in, that is just how it will be. But if you don't want to use it then you just go to the desktop and use things that way that you did before. She wasn't starting to say that you could turn it off, she was just saying that you could just put your program shortcuts there and just go to them in the "classic" view skipping using any of the apps on the start screen.
 
Menelmarar said:
Don't hold your breath.

NTFS is very robust.

Windows search/indexer has gone through so many iterations over the last few generations of windows, it effectively gives you database like searching for files.
Click to expand...

I just wish indexing was on by default with OEM computers having the entire thing indexed already. My mom still askes me if she should turn it on :(
 
Trimlock said:
I just wish indexing was on by default with OEM computers having the entire thing indexed already. My mom still askes me if she should turn it on :(
Click to expand...

they are adding the new "protogon" file system with windows 8


although not much is known at this point. we will probably find out more at the BUILD developer conference.
 
I'm interested in it too, but most things with MS it won't be turned on. Most of the good features of Windows are only enjoyed by those who know about them, they need to get this stuff turned on so they can show it off more.
 
how is this useful to desktop users? its just annoying shortcut system. now i have to deal with two different UI,
 
dioxholster said:
how is this useful to desktop users? its just annoying shortcut system. now i have to deal with two different UI,
Click to expand...
Because it's not on by default. This was a presentation on the tablet. You will always be using the Windows 7 UI on default. That woman just misspoke and should have clarified specifically for the tablet.
 
Kaitian said:
Because it's not on by default. This was a presentation on the tablet. You will always be using the Windows 7 UI on default. That woman just misspoke and should have clarified specifically for the tablet.
Click to expand...

Where did you hear or see that? They all keep saying that is the new DEFAULT start screen that you go directly too, that is meant to replace your start menu. It doesn't matter if you are using a keyboard and mouse, or tablet or whatever they keep saying that you get THAT screen.
 
The Russians already selling zero day exploits for it. They're around 80 now if you wait till after release you can get them for $20 with a kit thrown in as well.
 
Exavior said:
Where did you hear or see that? They all keep saying that is the new DEFAULT start screen that you go directly too, that is meant to replace your start menu. It doesn't matter if you are using a keyboard and mouse, or tablet or whatever they keep saying that you get THAT screen.
Click to expand...

PC's biggest consumers are the productivity based clients, last thing you want is to alienate them with a GUI that's the furthest thing from a productivity design. You're talking about a company who spends millions just designing computer interfaces.

This is not the first one mind you. When bill gates first talked about voice and pen as inputs. People reacted (or over reacted) much like you did. "What?! They want me to talk to a stupid computer just to launch programs???". Guess what, the start button is still there, and at the same time, voice and OCR got implemented as well. The tablet guys here will even personally attest to the effectiveness of the OCR as a viable input method.

The strength of the PC is in its flexibility. You want pen input, it'll work, you want voice input, it'll work. You want HTPC interface, it's there. You want touch oriented interface, it's coming in Windows 8. The start menu is Windows signature interface and it's not going anywhere.

Of course, windows 8 is also going to be arm based. If the Windows 8 that's going to be running is the tablet based version, then that would make sense to be the default. I'm guessing whoever made those claims is simply overselling the interface.



They are doing the same thing they did with Windows 7. Showing how the OS development is going and taking input from the community.

Or would you rather just wait for the unveiling of the finished product and just take whatever gets presented up the ass and love it like a certain other company.
 
Spooony said:
The Russians already selling zero day exploits for it. They're around 80 now if you wait till after release you can get them for $20 with a kit thrown in as well.
Click to expand...

Trollin', trollin', trollin', keep them doggies trollin', sounds like you're high!
 
Sly said:
PC's biggest consumers are the productivity based clients, last thing you want is to alienate them with a GUI that's the furthest thing from a productivity design. You're talking about a company who spends millions just designing computer interfaces.
Click to expand...

There is one massive strategic reason why Tiles will definitely be the new default interface for Windows everywhere.

Market share.

Despite what some fanboys might think, a funky new interface alone isn't enough for MS to make big inroads into the tablet market. Same applies for WinPhone7, it has similar Tile interface and is floundering.

They need a jumpstart big time.

By forcing the new Tile/Touch interface on every new/upgraded Windows computer, they immediately can leverage their PC monopoly to grow the market share for their Tile/Touch PC interface.

This will give them a market likely 50 to 100 times larger for their Tile/Touch apps to attract a development community, it makes how many tablets the sell almost irrelevant initially. They can likely surpass the installed touch base for iOS/Android in a little over a year.

While I still think this thing reeks as a desktop interface, I have to give it to them on the strategic side. Brilliant Strategy. Now I understand why they killed WinCE tablets last year.
 
Snowdog said:
While I still think this thing reeks as a desktop interface, I have to give it to them on the strategic side. Brilliant Strategy. Now I understand why they killed WinCE tablets last year.
Click to expand...

Why does this reek as a desktop interface? I see a number of advantages from what we've seen and we've not seen it all. For one this brings some sanity to having shitloads of icons and widgets and can give you instant views to information right on the tile desktop. Need more? Click on the tile and launch the program/app.

This is a powerful and scalable UI metaphor and easily extensible with the web itself since it uses HTML 5/JS/CSS. Hopefully it can be developed using other tools as well such as Silverlight/.Net but there's just a lot that UI looks to be able to do well on many form factors, screen sizes and input methods.

Also Windows Phone has it's chanllenges but there are now over 20,000 apps in the Marketplace and the beta Mango SDK was released last week. If Microsoft does this right and makes Windows Phone apps easily portable to Windows 8 there's a lot of potential their for both platforms.
 
Heatless, you are the biggest Microsoft booster on this forum (and about 5 other forums I stumbled upon). That you think this is the best desktop OS of all time is hardly a surprise.

I think it looks like something designed by Fisher Price for you childs first computer. It might have some workarounds for KB/Mouse it is clearly a touch first OS. You really can't optimize for both at the same time. For years Microsoft optimized for KB/Mouse and tacked on touch, now they have swung the pendulum in the other direction.

As I said, while I don't like it as a desktop OS, I see the strategic brilliance of forcing it on all Windows users.
 
heatlesssun said:
For one this brings some sanity to having shitloads of icons and widgets...
Click to expand...
I have to wonder how you're managing your desktop if you're dealing with "shitloads of icons and widgets". Isn't search the preferred paradigm in Windows 7?
 
Snowdog said:
Heatless, you are the biggest Microsoft booster on this forum (and about 5 other forums I stumbled upon). That you think this is the best desktop OS of all time is hardly a surprise.
Click to expand...

Snowdog, you're one of the biggest Microsoft opponents in these forums so it's no surprise that you don't care for this UI. And I never said anything about it being the best desktop, I simply pointed out the things it looks to be able to do and you didn't challenge my points.

Again, for those that are HTML 5 advocates Microsoft is providing first class support for an open standard in it's latest OS. Not even you can say that this is a bad thing regardless of other feelings you have about this UI. Of course the devil is in the details which are yet to come and while I like this as an option I do hope that it's not the only one.
 
Snowdog said:
There is one massive strategic reason why Tiles will definitely be the new default interface for Windows everywhere.

Market share.

Despite what some fanboys might think, a funky new interface alone isn't enough for MS to make big inroads into the tablet market. Same applies for WinPhone7, it has similar Tile interface and is floundering.

They need a jumpstart big time.

By forcing the new Tile/Touch interface on every new/upgraded Windows computer, they immediately can leverage their PC monopoly to grow the market share for their Tile/Touch PC interface.

This will give them a market likely 50 to 100 times larger for their Tile/Touch apps to attract a development community, it makes how many tablets the sell almost irrelevant initially. They can likely surpass the installed touch base for iOS/Android in a little over a year.

While I still think this thing reeks as a desktop interface, I have to give it to them on the strategic side. Brilliant Strategy. Now I understand why they killed WinCE tablets last year.
Click to expand...

That argument doesn't even make sense.
 
phide said:
I have to wonder how you're managing your desktop if you're dealing with "shitloads of icons and widgets". Isn't search the preferred paradigm in Windows 7?
Click to expand...

Tiles go beyond simple app launching. As a big HTML 5 advocate you will be able to leverage your skills right on the tile desktop. I don't know about you but I'm already thinking about this and how to capitalize on it with the new Marketplace.
 
Exavior said:
Where did you hear or see that? They all keep saying that is the new DEFAULT start screen that you go directly too, that is meant to replace your start menu. It doesn't matter if you are using a keyboard and mouse, or tablet or whatever they keep saying that you get THAT screen.
Click to expand...
Where do I hear or see that? Why, on the video itself. They were showing off a tablet interface and including in their own press release, this is aimed at x86 / ARM-based architecture. "The demo showed some of the ways we’ve reimagined the interface for a new generation of touch-centric hardware.".
 
heatlesssun said:
Snowdog, you're one of the biggest Microsoft opponents in these forums so it's no surprise that you don't care for this UI. And I never said anything about it being the best desktop, I simply pointed out the things it looks to be able to do and you didn't challenge my points.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am such a huge Microsoft opponent that I only own Microsoft powered computers and have never bought any Apple/Android gear in my life?? I guess it must be the fact that when Apple came out with the iPad, I thought they were really onto something, while you were trolling every single iPad thread that makes me a big MS opponent??

I love Win7 and I really liked WinXP a heck of a lot as well. But I also don't see everything MS with rose colored glasses. I see can also see flaws and things I don't like, it doesn't make me an opponent, just indicates I am not a hopeless fanboy.

This isn't even close to the way you trolled every iPad thread when it was announced, or the way you proselytize MS products on multiple forums and even make money off your MS related product reviews. You breathe/eat/sleep/bleed Microsoft blue.

I don't like this UI because I prefer and consider a desktop metaphor superior for KB/mouse. Tiles remind me of simple character block launchers we had back in the DOS days, it feels wrong the moment I look at it. I didn't even like it on the phone, but at least there with very limited space I could see some value.

It is also clearly touch first and KB/Mouse interaction will not be as effective. We have already seen examples:

Look at the browser, great for touch, but really tabs are invisible, you need to pull in a tab down a tab area, cycle through tabs. Versus them being visible and instantly selectable in a desktop/KB/Mouse metaphor.

Look at what happens when you want to choose a different running app while multitasking, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe until you find the one you want. While on a destkop you just click instantly on the one you want in the task bar. It is already blindingly obvious this is less efficient than desktop metaphor for getting at you want right away. It is all long cycles through.. Acceptable on a tablet, not on a desktop.

This is not a good desktop interface. But forcing it on everyone is great strategic move. They can leverage the monopoly into a big touch market share (even with few touch devices selling). But great for MS doens't mean great for consumers.
 
Snowdog said:
This is not a good desktop interface. But forcing it on everyone is great strategic move. They can leverage the monopoly into a big touch market share (even with few touch devices selling). But great for MS doens't mean great for consumers.
Click to expand...

Call it trolling and eating and sleeping Microsoft blue if you wish, but I think basing all of your conclusions about the desktop appropriateness of Windows 8 based on a demo that was obviously meant to show it capabilities on touch devices is premature.

As you state you love Windows 7, that's there, we all know about it. Microsoft didn't need to demo a familiar KBM desktop.

All I am saying is that this can work fine with keyboards and mice but that we simply don't have enough details about everything yet. Again, call this trolling if you wish.
 
chinesepiratefood said:
I think the important question to ask is...will Windows 8 Kill Microsoft?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/zd/20110602/tc_zd/265212

lol at the comments.
Click to expand...

I do think that at some level this is scaring even Microsoft haters. This is a HUGE gamble Microsoft is taking, it's most the radical change in UI in ANY software product I've ever seen in the 30 plus years I've used computers. The very fact that Microsoft is now willing to take risks with it's flagship is scary to even the haters, not because they might fail, but because they actually might succeed. If Windows 8 isn't a big hit and ends up like Vista, Microsoft may never recover with iOS and Android on the heels of Windows. But if it succeeds, it could mark the beginning on a new Microsoft that took a big gamble with it's most important product and won.

This is the biggest thing that Microsoft has ever done to Windows from one version to the next and how well it goes will be how well Microsoft goes for many years to come.
 
heatlesssun said:
Call it trolling and eating and sleeping Microsoft blue if you wish, but I think basing all of your conclusions about the desktop appropriateness of Windows 8 based on a demo that was obviously meant to show it capabilities on touch devices is premature.

As you state you love Windows 7, that's there, we all know about it. Microsoft didn't need to demo a familiar KBM desktop.

All I am saying is that this can work fine with keyboards and mice but that we simply don't have enough details about everything yet. Again, call this trolling if you wish.
Click to expand...

I didn't say you are trolling in this particular instance, but it is just par for the course for you to defend everything they do. MS could serve us dog-poop sandwiches and you would say how great it is that they are recycling.

You also used to say the old MS touch interface was great. No matter how less useful this is as KB/Mouse interface than a regular desktop, your mantra will be it is great...
 
Snowdog said:
I didn't say you are trolling in this particular instance, but it is just par for the course for you to defend everything they do. MS could serve us dog-poop sandwiches and you would say how great it is that they are recycling.

You also used to say the old MS touch interface was great. No matter how less useful this is as KB/Mouse interface than a regular desktop, your mantra will be it is great...
Click to expand...

You're misrepresenting what I have said. I've NEVER said that Windows 7 was a great touch UI. What I HAVE said is that there simply aren't enough touch based programs however overall touch in Windows 7 is much better than what is said by those that have never or barely used it. The API is there in Windows 7 to write touch based apps that are no different really than those that run on on iOS or Android. Angry Birds, Plants vs. Zombies, Kindle and a number of other apps just simply work the same way across touch platforms, and that includes Windows 7.

But yes, the classic desktop wasn't designed for touch, it was designed for keyboards and mice, something I've said a million times in these forms. But I can still run Office, copy files, read documents, surf the web just like plenty of others that have Windows 7 touch devices and even though the experience isn't touch optimized is still very usable.

Again, you will find plenty of iPad and owners of better Windows slate devices like the EP121 (which BTW has extremely high user reviews so I'm far from the only one that thinks that the EP121 is a fantastic device) who say very much the same thing.

So let me repeat. Windows 7 has a touch API that when properly utilized on sufficient hardware allows it to run touch based applications that provide pretty much the same user experience as those same apps on iOS or Android. The Windows desktop isn't touch optimized and there aren't enough touch optimized applications currently. However there are plenty of applications that aren't touch optimized that work well overall, such as Office 2010 and IE 8 and up and even FF and Chrome have touch support. The Zune client ironically sucks on a touch screen, Windows Media Player and Center work well however.

I've said these things PLENTY of times in these forums so I'm simply correcting your mischaracterizations.
 
Perhaps not those exact words, but you said things like the following while you were trolling iPad threads after it was announced where you were downright worshiping how great windows tablets were.

It was so bad after the iPad came out, I gave up reading iPad threads because you were trolling every iPad thread, often posting 50 times or more in one thread. What was that you said about haters getting scared above. Maybe that was from experience.

heatlesssun said:
If you want smooth, a real Windows 7 machine will be even smoother than an iPaddy.
Click to expand...

heatlesssun said:
When it comes to tablet computing, right now, nothing is coming close to the new HP TouchSmart tm2. This this is BEYOND incredible.
Click to expand...

That is when you weren't posting images like this:
http://czyt9w.bay.livefilestore.com...Sl29bO-aYmcN9XLrcZXBz1VgKpQZt/iPad Review.jpg
 
Snowdog said:
Perhaps not those exact words, but you said things like the following while you were trolling iPad threads after it was announced where you were downright worshiping how great windows tablets were.

It was so bad after the iPad came out, I gave up reading iPad threads because you were trolling every iPad thread, often posting 50 times or more in one thread. What was that you said about haters getting scared above. Maybe that was from experience.





That is when you weren't posting images like this:
http://czyt9w.bay.livefilestore.com...Sl29bO-aYmcN9XLrcZXBz1VgKpQZt/iPad Review.jpg
Click to expand...

LOL! I figured you'd find something where I got it with some iPad folks. At any rate you do realize that those particular comments did involve digital ink correct? I mean the .jpg you posted was a joke about DIGITAL INK! The last time I checked Windows 7 is FAR superior to the iPad in digital ink technology.

Nice attempt to change the subject from touch, which is what you bought up and then decided to talk about an entirely different subject.;)
 
This looks like a bunch of features and stuff that I don't want or need. I have a feeling I'll be sticking with Windows 7 as long as it continues to support the newest Direct X etc.
 
DeathPrincess said:
If they somehow release windows 8 in a way that causes 7, vista to stop exsisting, then I could see linux gaining 95% share of the market...:p
Click to expand...

Backwards compatibility has always been a key to Windows with some version changes being more problematic than others. 9x to XP and XP to Vista were kind of rough for Windows in terms of conpatibilty. As big of a change Windows 8 is to the UI Sinofky promoted 8 as being 100% backwards compatible with 7, at least on x86, which I found interesting but a necessary palliative to go with the massive UI change.
 
Gnasher said:
Not me. You want to look at a screen all day with greasy finger prints all over it?
Click to expand...

It really isn't as bad and you and other think. I'm on a touch screen laptop right now. I love it. when it is on i really can't see a huge amount of finger prints, they do stand out when it is off though. I wipe the screen a few times a month and don't find it to be that much of a problem. I was like you at first and thought it would be horrible, I decided to get a laptop with a touch screen just to see how it was and how well they worked and now that i have it, i find myself being held back on anything else and don't see myself being able to go back to a non touch screen laptop.

Kaitian said:
Where do I hear or see that? Why, on the video itself. They were showing off a tablet interface and including in their own press release, this is aimed at x86 / ARM-based architecture. "The demo showed some of the ways we’ve reimagined the interface for a new generation of touch-centric hardware.".
Click to expand...

You might want to watch and listen to the videos again. They were designed for touch centric hardware, but it works with a mouse and keyboard also. I do wish they would have shown how it works without a touch interface. One of the vidoes the person doing the demo shown the new UI on a normal everyday current desktop. They made sure to point out that while designed for Touch screens they are not leaving anyone out and designed it to work with touch screens and mouse & keyboard combos.
 
Exavior said:
It really isn't as bad and you and other think. I'm on a touch screen laptop right now. I love it. when it is on i really can't see a huge amount of finger prints, they do stand out when it is off though. I wipe the screen a few times a month and don't find it to be that much of a problem. I was like you at first and thought it would be horrible, I decided to get a laptop with a touch screen just to see how it was and how well they worked and now that i have it, i find myself being held back on anything else and don't see myself being able to go back to a non touch screen laptop.
Click to expand...

So what laptop do you have? I pretty much agree on the finger prints, you really don't see them but yeah, they really do show up on a black screen, nothing a microfiber cloth can't cure. I do find however that I don't like having a totally fingerprint free surface the fingerprints help reduce friction. Yeah, I know that sounds gross to people but hey, they're there on your keyboard, mouse and trackpads as well, just hidden and MUCH harder to clean.
 
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