Windows 8 RTM vs win8 release preview

rsbennett00 said:
I gave win8 to some of my normal (not IT friendly) family over the weekend. The response from a dozen people was 100% "wow that's different!" followed by 5 minutes of training and they all took to it like ducks to water. A couple of them got microsoft accounts, setup live tiles with email, contacts, facebook crap, and other things. One that leaned a little more toward 'savvy' had almost every default tile functional and updating with slideshows and videos and whatnot. I was quite impressed. I was really really waiting for backlash and anger but got none. A few asked me how soon they could have it permanently.
Click to expand...

devil22 said:
Yea I think the 'tech pros' idea of what new users can and want to do are very different from what those new users actually can and want to do, so it doesn't surprise me. Even without understanding the design philosophy and customization abilities, I can see how a new user would find it quite appealing, it just looks 'neat' to use valley girl lingo.
Click to expand...

Been looking at the Windows Store, things are starting to perk up and their are some decent apps coming on line. Sure, most are junk but there's just going to be so many coming online, it just adds a consumer dimension to Windows that was sorely needed. I do understand and empathize with some the bemoaning about the "dumbing down" of Windows but at the same time if really complex is what people wanted in computers then Linux should be ruling the desktop.
 
heatlesssun said:
Been looking at the Windows Store, things are starting to perk up and their are some decent apps coming on line. Sure, most are junk but there's just going to be so many coming online, it just adds a consumer dimension to Windows that was sorely needed. I do understand and empathize with some the bemoaning about the "dumbing down" of Windows but at the same time if really complex is what people wanted in computers then Linux should be ruling the desktop.
Click to expand...

Fruit Ninja works the best with a mouse. :D
 
heatlesssun said:
I do understand and empathize with some the bemoaning about the "dumbing down" of Windows but at the same time if really complex is what people wanted in computers then Linux should be ruling the desktop.
Click to expand...

Its dumped down in the sense you are limited in what you can do with it (or more specifically, in the things that you can do with it that actually matter), not because it is "easier" to use. To the contrary, it is actually harder to use, and that's the problem. An operating system should be as simple and as efficient as possible, since it is a mere tool, not something that you are supposed to tinker around with for the mere fun of it. The perfect operating system is the one that acts as an extension of your thoughts without you ever being aware of its presence for the most part.

As for Linux, it would probably be ruling the desktop now if it wasn't for their asinine licence restriction. The reason why Linux is so popular as a server os is not so much that that it can be very stable and efficient with the right setup, albeit that's certainly an important aspect, but also that many of the tools available natively on the system are among the best for that type of environment. The fact they consciously restrict themselves from being able to employ commercial software in general is what makes them noncompetitive in any other field, where open source software is mostly inferior to what's available on windows.

It is because of this that i personally think the future its going to belong to FreeBSD, but that's going to be a long way off i fear.
 
Lyric Suite said:
Its dumped down in the sense you are limited in what you can do with it (or more specifically, in the things that you can do with it that actually matter), not because it is "easier" to use.
Click to expand...

I'm curious to hear what Windows 8 has 'limited' you from doing. Please elaborate.
 
rsbennett00 said:
I gave win8 to some of my normal (not IT friendly) family over the weekend. The response from a dozen people was 100% "wow that's different!" followed by 5 minutes of training and they all took to it like ducks to water. A couple of them got microsoft accounts, setup live tiles with email, contacts, facebook crap, and other things. One that leaned a little more toward 'savvy' had almost every default tile functional and updating with slideshows and videos and whatnot. I was quite impressed. I was really really waiting for backlash and anger but got none. A few asked me how soon they could have it permanently.
Click to expand...

They are just being taken by the novelty of it, and its looks, which, admittedly, are superior to the Vista/Windows 7 glass crap.

Same goes for everyone in this thread who appears to be willfully blind to the atrocity of the new interface. To wit, nobody has even attempted to explain what it is that makes the new system "good", beyond the fact that it is "new" (like that ever meant anything).
 
Dogs said:
I'm curious to hear what Windows 8 has 'limited' you from doing. Please elaborate.
Click to expand...

I'm interested too. I've started deploying it and if there's something that doesn't work, I really need to know.

Offhand these programs are working:
firefox
office 2010
office 2013
filemaker 11
smart notebook & drivers
vsphere 4.1
cisco anyconnect
vmware workstation
CS6
symantec endpoint protection
steam
path of exile
dungeons of dredmor
virtual clone drive
 
Lyric Suite said:
They are just being taken by the novelty of it, and its looks, which, admittedly, are superior to the Vista/Windows 7 glass crap.

Same goes for everyone in this thread who appears to be willfully blind to the atrocity of the new interface. To wit, nobody has even attempted to explain what it is that makes the new system "good", beyond the fact that it is "new" (like that ever meant anything).
Click to expand...

I can tell you exactly what makes it good/easier for me.

It's faster than 7, noticeably, on everything I've put it on.
The checkbox for show hidden files is a big time saver.
Multimonitor support is vastly improved with taskbar spanning and individualized programs.
Built in syncing with your microsoft account across PC's, that'll be huge here since I never have had time to implement roaming profiles.
Deployment is easier since it has built in drivers for more devices and fewer updates but that was true when 7 first came out and thus irrelevant.
 
Lyric Suite said:
Same goes for everyone in this thread who appears to be willfully blind to the atrocity of the new interface. To wit, nobody has even attempted to explain what it is that makes the new system "good", beyond the fact that it is "new" (like that ever meant anything).
Click to expand...

Plenty have explained their reasons for liking the new UI, just as plenty have explained their reasons for not liking it.

The main reason I like the new UI is simply that it works much better across desktops and tablets than previously. Since I move between tablets and desktops interchangeably the UI works very well and this is the strength of this UI. And it's a UI that makes sense looking at how tablets are growing and the traditional PCs not so much. Even productive people are going to be spending more and more time with tablets and touch devices even while they will continue to use traditional devices for other and larger tasks.
 
I think the color scheme for 8 is hideous. It looks like a 80s Pastel nightmare. Next we will all dress ala Don Jonson suits with pink shirts. Its fugly. Its so ugly that when it fell out of the ugly tree it never hit the ground cause its still bouncing off the ugly tree branches. It hurts the eyes just by looking at it.
 
Lyric Suite said:
They are just being taken by the novelty of it, and its looks, which, admittedly, are superior to the Vista/Windows 7 glass crap.

Same goes for everyone in this thread who appears to be willfully blind to the atrocity of the new interface. To wit, nobody has even attempted to explain what it is that makes the new system "good", beyond the fact that it is "new" (like that ever meant anything).
Click to expand...

It's been explained many times. To sum up:
1. I can launch any program I have in 2 clicks in Win 8, one click to open start screen then another click on the app. To open a program on Windows 7, I need to click to open the start menu, click to open all programs (if my app is not in the first list which many times it is not.), click to open the folder and sometimes another click for a nested folder, click the app. Win 7 is more error prone because you have to click more, against smaller icons.
2. I can click one button, and see live tiles from nicely made metro apps, giving me information like weather, email, calendar data and so on. To do this on Windows 7, I need a bunch of haphazard gadgets and programs, which are insecure vs. metro apps, and frequently less stable (never seen a metro app crash yet.) Metro apps also look much nicer and more modern, tend to be smoother (hardware accelerated Win RT), and I can get them from a centralized store where they are verified to be malware free, instead of hunting down random things on the web that have no verification.
3. Not a big deal, but having the start screen for apps, allows me to unpin everything from my task bar, so I know everything there is running (that has bitten me in the past on Windows 7.)
4. Hard to describe this exactly, but my motion through Win 8 and the start screen is much more fluid and automatic, I do less thinking about where I'm clicking, where I need to click next, and so on, while making fewer mistakes. I had the mental image of Tarzan freely swinging through the jungle as I was navigating to upload some pictures to the skydrive app for the first time a few minutes ago.

So there are reasons, but you reject them and prefer to form an opinion based on typical internet misinformation.
 
Wrench00 said:
I think the color scheme for 8 is hideous. It looks like a 80s Pastel nightmare. Next we will all dress ala Don Jonson suits with pink shirts. Its fugly. Its so ugly that when it fell out of the ugly tree it never hit the ground cause its still bouncing off the ugly tree branches. It hurts the eyes just by looking at it.
Click to expand...

Wow! Now it hurts my eyes since you explained that! Is that what you want someone to say?
 
My only real gripe with the UI is the ugly square Lego blocks. Why couldn't M$ have made them transparent and have rounded corners? I like that in Win7...
I really don't understand why people don't like the rounded transparent look of Win7 Aero....
When Win7 was released, I hated that the taskbar was still straight and flat...They could have made that nicer too.
 
E^vol said:
My only real gripe with the UI is the ugly square Lego blocks. Why couldn't M$ have made them transparent and have rounded corners? I like that in Win7...
I really don't understand why people don't like the rounded transparent look of Win7 Aero....
When Win7 was released, I hated that the taskbar was still straight and flat...They could have made that nicer too.
Click to expand...

Well everyone has a different opinion on such issues. But I will say I wish you could change metro apps' tile color. I have a serene mellow blue color start screen, but then bing maps is orange, maps is darkish pink, and others like mail are sickly hospital waiting room light blue. But I'm not going to sit and stare at them all day, so it's not that big an issue, and maybe apps not yet released will have better tile appearance or allow a way to change the color. I can imagine some nice concepts like metro mail apps with either photo-real tiles and indicators, or something at least more complex looking like Windows program icons are..
 
devil22 said:
It's been explained many times. To sum up:
1. I can launch any program I have in 2 clicks in Win 8, one click to open start screen then another click on the app. To open a program on Windows 7, I need to click to open the start menu, click to open all programs (if my app is not in the first list which many times it is not.), click to open the folder and sometimes another click for a nested folder, click the app. Win 7 is more error prone because you have to click more, against smaller icons.
Click to expand...

I can launch any program in one click in Windows 7. Pin tasks, put icons on desktop, type the program in the search box, what have you. I can also open the start menu without getting confused, which is two clicks away to begin with, rather then being one whole screen away, the difference being somehow lost on you.

In windows 8, i have to flip through three different screens to do what in Windows 7 i could do in one screen perfectly easily.

It seems to me that you are simply trying to argue that Windows 8 is more idiot friendly. Successfully, i might add. And stop referring to software as "apps", for the love of Christ.

devil22 said:
2. I can click one button, and see live tiles from nicely made metro apps, giving me information like weather, email, calendar data and so on.
Click to expand...

Stuff which I, for one, couldn't possibly care less. What you are saying basically is that Windows 8 succeeds at being more of a tablet for casual use rather then an actual desktop operating system, which is precisely what we're accusing Windows 8 of being.

devil22 said:
To do this on Windows 7, I need a bunch of haphazard gadgets and programs, which are insecure vs. metro apps, and frequently less stable (never seen a metro app crash yet.) Metro apps also look much nicer and more modern, tend to be smoother (hardware accelerated Win RT), and I can get them from a centralized store where they are verified to be malware free, instead of hunting down random things on the web that have no verification.
Click to expand...

Again, you are just making a case for why Windows 8 is more suited for morons.

devil22 said:
3. Not a big deal, but having the start screen for apps, allows me to unpin everything from my task bar, so I know everything there is running (that has bitten me in the past on Windows 7.)
Click to expand...

You are making no sense. The task bar existed precisely to pin stuff in it. Indeed, one of the few brilliant ideas they implemented in Windows 7, and carried over to Windows 8, unbeknownst to you apparently, is that they successfully created a task bar/dock hybrid which united in one place two functions which in all other operating systems (including MacOS) required two distinct bars. That was actually progress i could get behind, because it was progress in functionality, not "progress" in terms of how trendiness and fashion.

devil22 said:
4. Hard to describe this exactly, but my motion through Win 8 and the start screen is much more fluid and automatic, I do less thinking about where I'm clicking, where I need to click next, and so on, while making fewer mistakes. I had the mental image of Tarzan freely swinging through the jungle as I was navigating to upload some pictures to the skydrive app for the first time a few minutes ago.
Click to expand...

I think the design is so mind numbingly stupid your brain cells are just falling asleep through out the whole process.

What i don't understand is, considering your needs here, why bother with a desktop computer in the first place? Why not simply stick with a tablet? It seems that's pretty much all you want anyway.
 
E^vol said:
I really don't understand why people don't like the rounded transparent look of Win7 Aero....
Click to expand...
Aero Glass is adorned with useless visual effects and gimmicks. It was impressive back when hardware-accelerated UIs were a new thing for most people, but it's just pointless now, and wastes power by overly-burdening the GPU with work.

Rounded corners were designed to soften the aesthetic and make the UI more inviting, but I think we're at the point where UIs don't need to feel inviting. They should just express what's necessary to express and discard the rest. People can handle that.
 
wonderfield said:
Aero Glass is adorned with useless visual effects and gimmicks. It was impressive back when hardware-accelerated UIs were a new thing for most people, but it's just pointless now, and wastes power by overly-burdening the GPU with work.

Rounded corners were designed to soften the aesthetic and make the UI more inviting, but I think we're at the point where UIs don't need to feel inviting. They should just express what's necessary to express and discard the rest. People can handle that.
Click to expand...

Would you rather look at a nice flowing Ferrari or a boxy Buick ?
 
rsbennett00 said:
It's faster than 7, noticeably, on everything I've put it on.
Click to expand...

On modern hardware, the only thing holding operating systems back is mechanical drives. A lot of people said the same thing about Windows 7 being faster then XP, but if you have ever tried to compare those systems on older hardware, you'll know how nonsensical that is. Windows XP can run perfectly well on a Pentium 3 with a mere 512mb of memory, where Windows 7 is barely able to boot into that.
 
E^vol said:
Would you rather look at a nice flowing Ferrari or a boxy Buick ?
Click to expand...

Considering i prefer the look of Windows 2000/XP (in classic mode) over anything Microsoft has produced since, i must definitely opt for the Ferrari.
 
E^vol said:
My only real gripe with the UI is the ugly square Lego blocks. Why couldn't M$ have made them transparent and have rounded corners? I like that in Win7...
I really don't understand why people don't like the rounded transparent look of Win7 Aero....
When Win7 was released, I hated that the taskbar was still straight and flat...They could have made that nicer too.
Click to expand...

It does make a lot of sense from the standpoint that the Start Screen is basically an infinite arbitrary list of things, apps, folders, shortcuts and notifications. I've got about 500 tiles on the Start Screen of my main Windows 8 machine. The Start Screen really is not a bad way to manage and present a large list of arbitrary things and I think its Cartesianism works well in that flat rectangles that contain images, glyphs and text work well for such large lists plus it helps with power and performance.

That AOL pic for the AOL for Kids gets a lot of play and everyone's a critic but I'm really starting to get this Start Screen and yes, it is better than the Start Menu even on a desktop simply because it can deal with much more content.
 
Lyric Suite said:
I can launch any program in one click in Windows 7. Pin tasks, put icons on desktop, type the program in the search box, what have you. I can also open the start menu without getting confused, which is two clicks away to begin with, rather then being one whole screen away, the difference being somehow lost on you.
Click to expand...

You can pin task on the task bar and make desktop shortcuts in Windows 8 too, so what's your point? I just personally don't think it's a good idea. I like that area uncluttered, I use the desktop for temporary operations and the task bar for running apps. And what difference does it make if the program list opens in rectangular subset of the screen, or the whole screen? Either way, you can't access your other programs at the time, and either way you open an app and it closes the program list and puts the app on the desktop with you looking at it. So yea, it's completely lost on me, I won't deny that.

In windows 8, i have to flip through three different screens to do what in Windows 7 i could do in one screen perfectly easily.
Click to expand...

The screen transition results in no additional work from the user, so what difference does it make? At this point I'm thinking we need to do the computer version of the airplane game to get you to want to 'eat'.

It seems to me that you are simply trying to argue that Windows 8 is more idiot friendly. Successfully, i might add. And stop referring to software as "apps", for the love of Christ.
Click to expand...

It's more idiot proof because it's superior and more efficient, it just so happens that idiots are typically receptive to efficiency. Not the same at all as being idiotic.

You know what apps mean, that's all I care about. If you don't I will explain it, then continue using it. Guess you'll have to find a way to live with it since you have no power to control my language.

Stuff which I, for one, couldn't possibly care less. What you are saying basically is that Windows 8 succeeds at being more of a tablet for casual use rather then an actual desktop operating system, which is precisely what we're accusing Windows 8 of being.
Click to expand...

I'm saying it merges the concept of tablet and desktop OS, taking the best from each into a new form that is superior to either. Of course that will probably make you barf, but you solicited my opinion.


Again, you are just making a case for why Windows 8 is more suited for morons.
Click to expand...
Sure, everyone who gets malware looking for apps is a moron. That makes so little sense I can't even understand why you bother saying it. Anyways, these 'morons' should be to use their computers and get applications and games without having to get B.S. in C.S. to avoid all the threats out there. Since no one is forced to use metro apps on Windows 8, it's simply an extra.

You are making no sense. The task bar existed precisely to pin stuff in it. Indeed, one of the few brilliant ideas they implemented in Windows 7, and carried over to Windows 8, unbeknownst to you apparently, is that they successfully created a task bar/dock hybrid which united in one place two functions which in all other operating systems (including MacOS) required two distinct bars. That was actually progress i could get behind, because it was progress in functionality, not "progress" in terms of how trendiness and fashion.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I find mixing running and non-running items on the task bar to be inefficient and error prone.

I think the design is so mind numbingly stupid your brain cells are just falling asleep through out the whole process.
Click to expand...

Well, the design makes sense to me, I am measurably more efficient overall and with less clutter, and UI navigation errors. If that's 'stupid', so be it.

What i don't understand is, considering your needs here, why bother with a desktop computer in the first place? Why not simply stick with a tablet? It seems that's pretty much all you want anyway.
Click to expand...

I like sitting at my desk using my computer for one, for two I like to play BF3 and Skyrim (and am awaiting future games like Warfighter and so on.) I like KB/M not touch. I like freedom to control what's on my computer, however the option of getting apps from a controlled app store is appealing in some cases as well. But I don't have to get a tablet, I can get the best of both desktop and tablet with Windows 8 instead. (yea yea, you're gagging, whatever.)
 
Dogs said:
'boxy'....'Buick'....Certainly not a recent one, then.
Click to expand...

Ok then, how about a new Subaru...They are boxy as hell.


My point is...Why square? Don't you find rounded edges nicer to look at?
Same thing with the transparency. A flat color or a nicer glossy finish...
I'm looking at Live Messenger beside Steam and Steam looks like ass compared to LM....
 
E^vol said:
Ok then, how about a new Subaru...They are boxy as hell.
Click to expand...

....I mean, if you say so...

E^vol said:
My point is...Why square? Don't you find rounded edges nicer to look at?
Same thing with the transparency. A flat color or a nicer glossy finish...
I'm looking at Live Messenger beside Steam and Steam looks like ass compared to LM....
Click to expand...

Pedantic antics aside, I agree to some extent. The glass and the smooth edges are just nice on the eyes.
 
heatlesssun said:
That AOL pic for the AOL for Kids gets a lot of play and everyone's a critic but I'm really starting to get this Start Screen and yes, it is better than the Start Menu even on a desktop simply because it can deal with much more content.
Click to expand...

Finally, Time for the AOL generation has arrived.

A lot of things in Life is cyclical, though it is quite challenging, and frequently not obvious, while you are navigating inside the immense stream...

I copy this quote from an old children book

quote

I will dedicate the book to the child from whom this grown-up grew. All grown-ups were once children-- although few of them remember it.

/end quote
 
Lyric Suite said:
I think the design is so mind numbingly stupid your brain cells are just falling asleep through out the whole process.
Click to expand...

One thing that I do like about the Start Screen is how well it scales. I know have almost 500 tiles on the Start Screen on my main Windows 8 dual screen workstation. It does take some work to keep organized but I find the speed with which it can be navigated impressive.

Putting 500 things on the Start Menu is impossible and insane on the desktop. And as much as people love to bash its ugliness or blocky nature, it starts to make a lot of sense why certain things are the way they are when you actually use it.
 
devil22 said:
Skyrim
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why this game keeps getting mentioned here. A dumped down piece of crap of an RPG who's only redeeming quality is that its somewhat of an improvement over Oblivion.

I suppose there is a bit of a connection here between people who enjoy dumped down video games and people who enjoy dumped down desktop interfaces. :D
 
Lyric Suite said:
I'm not sure why this game keeps getting mentioned here. A dumped down piece of crap of an RPG who's only redeeming quality is that its somewhat of an improvement over Oblivion.

I suppose there is a bit of a connection here between people who enjoy dumped down video games and people who enjoy dumped down desktop interfaces. :D
Click to expand...

Is 'dumped down' some new hipster meme, or do you mean 'dumbed down' (I'll refrain from making connections there.. :) )? Anyway, I'll never understand why people are so non-understanding. Yes, fine, Skyrim has problems. But if you want to play a first person RPG, what are you going to do? It's like all you have to eat is rice, rice may suck, but it's better than starving, so frankly I'm just happy to have that.
 
What is the deal? When I click certain tiles, nothing happens. Anyone else encounter this?
 
Non techie users don't use 90% of features of any product, don't customize, don't know or care about options, and are easily pleased by things that look cool, shiny and different.

Non techie users are the majority.

Microsoft built Windows 8 based on telemetry - I.e. remove everything not used by a majority. Then add a phone interface on a desktop OS, make the desktop pastel colors.

Add this all up and you end with what we have.
 
MrCrispy said:
Non techie users don't use 90% of features of any product, don't customize, don't know or care about options, and are easily pleased by things that look cool, shiny and different.

Non techie users are the majority.

Microsoft built Windows 8 based on telemetry - I.e. remove everything not used by a majority. Then add a phone interface on a desktop OS, make the desktop pastel colors.

Add this all up and you end with what we have.
Click to expand...

What OS do you like? Windows 7? "Windows 7 is just M$ making an addition to Vista to allow non-running programs to stay in the task bar and make the task bar idiot sized, because they're telemetry told them that would make them money". OS X? "OS X is just a cheap metal pictures interface on top of some old unix". etc. I mean, what is it with some people..?
 
devil22 said:
Is 'dumped down' some new hipster meme, or do you mean 'dumbed down' (I'll refrain from making connections there.. :) )? Anyway, I'll never understand why people are so non-understanding. Yes, fine, Skyrim has problems. But if you want to play a first person RPG, what are you going to do? It's like all you have to eat is rice, rice may suck, but it's better than starving, so frankly I'm just happy to have that.
Click to expand...

The misspelling was intentional. Recursive irony, or something.

To follow your analogy, i'd rather starve then eat shit, if you'll pardon my french.

But i'm just assburgering now, i better go to sleep before my speech pattern starts to use internet memes exclusively.
 
devil22 said:
What OS do you like? Windows 7? "Windows 7 is just M$ making an addition to Vista to allow non-running programs to stay in the task bar and make the task bar idiot sized, because they're telemetry told them that would make them money". OS X? "OS X is just a cheap metal pictures interface on top of some old unix". etc. I mean, what is it with some people..?
Click to expand...

You realize you lose all credibility when you use 'M$', right? Anyway, if you actually care to address some points then I will respond.
 
Lyric Suite said:
The misspelling was intentional. Recursive irony, or something.

To follow your analogy, i'd rather starve then eat shit, if you'll pardon my french.

But i'm just assburgering now, i better go to sleep before my speech pattern starts to use internet memes exclusively.
Click to expand...

Ok, so let's mix it up. If playing the game nourished (far out hypothetical) your body, you would rather die than play skyrim too then? Because that's just plain 'dump', as you would say.

Anyway, the game is not even that terrible. Maybe you just don't like the genre, how would I know? I mean, I'd equate watching football to eating shit but most people seem to get immense satisfaction out of it. Good thing we have freedom and can go do something that we personally enjoy. If you are a fan of the genre, well it still makes no sense, because the way I see it, as a fan, you would take a poor game over none at all. So once again I'm left wondering why we are where we are ...
 
Last edited:
MrCrispy said:
You realize you lose all credibility when you use 'M$', right? Anyway, if you actually care to address some points then I will respond.
Click to expand...

Yep I do realize that, you realize it was in quotes right? And it is no worse than your substanceless and random attacks in your post, which is where I got the idea.. Maybe we need a smack-talk thread, where people do nothing but dump on everything they can think of that is a technology or something, I personally don't see the appeal, but it seems to utterly fascinate so many people.
 
Last edited:
The B8 blog has quite clearly mentioned the rationale for the removal of many features, which is that most people didn't use them according to their telemetry. This is a stance I and many others disagree with and find terrible, since it leads to the dumbing down of any product.

MS has also clearly stated that Win 8 is a touch first OS, and the desktop exists purely for legacy apps.

'substanceless and random attacks', really?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top