Windows 8 RTM vs win8 release preview

manders2600 said:
Yes, the Alt-Tab approach works, as it always has. Though, if holding down Alt and pressing tab several times to cycle through your open applications (lots of open apps, tap the Tab button one too many times? Well, you’ll just have to cycle all the way through them again) was a great approach, the taskbar never would have been implemented in the first place.
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Press ALT+Tab to cycle forward, Alt+Shift+Tab to cycle backwards.
 
TechLarry said:
The real, overall gripe here is Microsoft, over the last few years, has taken this stance of removing options from software that users have become accustomed to. If any company other than Microsoft were to do this, they would tank. Only their monopolized position allows them to do things like this.
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Apple is famous for doing it. But I agree, I do not like to see Microsoft doing it and doing it so rapidly.
 
devil22 said:
All versions, if you leave out MS-DOS. MS-DOS->Windows was more radical than Win 7->Win 8. Besides, it seems a logical progression to me. The start page is better than the start menu, I can open programs faster because I can have a larger number of them with larger icons, without extraneous extras like help documents and useless little utilities I constantly accidently open, and the bigger icons mean I won't click the wrong thing of what I do have up there. I don't have to click all programs and scroll around and open a folder either. Then, it also happens to make tablet use easier, allowing MS to sell one OS cutting costs, needless duplication of effort and so on.

And what do you want me to do, count touch/non-touch devices? And I didn't see a reason to do this stated, must be because there is not one.

Hardly matters if people reject it, they're not too smart anyway, matters to me if it is useful or a good solution, more than what random people I don't know think about it.
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That last bit sounds like an argument an Apple fanboy would make. A "they don't know what is good for them" or "can't be relied upon to make the best decision for themselves" argument.
 
devil22 said:
I guess it depends on the app, but in Win 7, most of the apps I used were not in the main list on the top, in fact I rarely used those apps and the ones that were there that I used, I usually did not remember that so I just went to the folder and ran them. In Win 8, I just unpin everything I don't use from the start page, pin all my apps that I use there. Now it's just one click to start page, and another click to launch. You can still pin to the task bar, but I choose to unpin everything from the task bar. I never really liked the idea of mixing running and non-running programs, sometimes it would take me a second or two to figure what was running and what was not running, and I have at times mistakenly thought something was running when it wasn't and should have, and thought something was not running when it shouldn't have and was. Now I can look at the task bar and know instantly everything there is running and it seems more organized. I'm not saying Win 8 is the best UI possible, but it seem nicer than Win 7 to me if you take a second to think through your work flow and organize things efficiently given the abilities present.
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I've typically not spent all that much time trying to organize or trying to out think Microsoft's defaults, so I perceive this as a change. When I installed Windows 8 RTM (MSDN evaluation edition), I immediately had to turn off a bunch of live tiles and remove tiles. I had to turn off smart shutdown and set the power button to shutdown (I have to do the latter in Windows 7 as well). The message I've been getting is to effectively use Windows 8, you have to spend a lot of time customizing the Start Screen. I never had to do that with the Start Menu. I can see Microsoft expecting me to do that, but what about the most basic users? Some users are scared of their computers, for lack of a better word. This will make support staff's job harder (although perhaps only marginally so) in that they can no longer assume something will be on the Start screen. I guess they'll ave to rely on telling users to use search?

The vast overwhelming message I've been getting from Windows 8 and Windows 8 proponents is I'm doing it wrong. I can see how some might get offended - if you're doing it wrong but you're doing it the same way as you've always done, then you may have (always) been doing it wrong as well.
 
Arainach said:
Again: This only applies after reboots. If you're rebooting often you're doing it wrong. Sleep mode and Hibernate are wonderful things.I'm not sure what you're comparing here. The desktop sits there staticly. The Start Screen/menu launches programs, gives live tile updates, and so much more.Talk of piracy isn't allowed here, but you can't install Win8 without a serial (as in the installer won't continue without one).Or by Ctrl+Mouse Wheel, or by Ctrl+ +/-, or by Pinch Zoom with touch (it's a zoom out action, the button in the corner is just how it's exposed to mouse-only users).
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I still maintain it is better to have a desktop behind a battery backup, to turn the desktop off when you're not using it, and to turn the desktop off at the battery backup when not using it. Utility power can be unkind to sensitive electronics.
 
ccman said:
That last bit sounds like an argument an Apple fanboy would make. A "they don't know what is good for them" or "can't be relied upon to make the best decision for themselves" argument.
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It's not so much that people don't know what's best for them but are they being realistic about the future of the PC. I just saw this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/small...ent-small-business-apps/57121726/1?csp=34tech

This article is going to the heart of what many people say suck about tablets, productivity and flying right in the face of that assumption.
 
I don't turn on SmartScreen filtering. In Windows 8 RTM, Internet Explorer 10 kept asking me each time I opened it if I wanted to use recommended settings or not, even though I clicked indicating I did not and clicked Ok (NOT Ask me later). It was only when I went in to Internet Options to turn it on then off that it quit bugging me. This did not happen in RP.

Also, Windows 8 gives you a lot of options at install time regarding information preferences (good thing). I did not like the purple "Install Now" button on the purple background window. The purple default theme reminds me of Ubuntu, so I changed it to match the Win 8 RP color scheme. Others have mentioned elsewhere that the install process is very quick. It seemed noticably faster than Windows 7 to me.
 
ccman said:
That last bit sounds like an argument an Apple fanboy would make. A "they don't know what is good for them" or "can't be relied upon to make the best decision for themselves" argument.
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You read that in the wrong context, I was making a comment in reply to what in effect was a statement that people would not accept Windows 8 in general, just kinda felt like throwing out there that my personal opinion at least, is not swayed by such majority consensus, to use a polite term. Will drop in tomorrow to discuss the other things you bought up, I need to retire for the night.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's not so much that people don't know what's best for them but are they being realistic about the future of the PC.
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The future of PC being the end of desktop computing. First they destroyed PC gaming with the introduction of the Xbox, now they destroy the PC platform itself. Ho Microsoft, will thine days of glory ever end?

I guess tomorrow i'll try to tell my boss to ditch our AutoCAD workstations in favor of touchscreen "apps" like AutoCAD WS. That's not going to cut into our productivity, not at all. Besides, how can one be opposed to the FUTURE? The jury has been adjourned on that one a long time ago. Progress always means better, even when it doesn't, right?
 
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Lyric Suite said:
The future of PC being the end of desktop computing. First they destroyed PC gaming with the introduction of the Xbox, now they destroy the PC platform itself. Ho Microsoft, will thine days of glory ever end?
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You know, there is this thing out there called "reality." You ought to stop in to visit once and a while, just for a change from your day to day life.

I sure don't see the end of desktop computing. It appears Microsoft agrees with me as Windows 8 seems to be doubling down on their corporate bet on desktop computing what with all the enhancements the Windows 8 experience provides over Windows 7. Neither do I see PC gaming as being destroyed. I spent several hours this weekend playing Skyrim on my Windows PC. It worked fine. Or are you one of those console-tards who prefers an X-box over a PC?

Lyric Suite said:
I guess tomorrow i'll try to tell my boss to ditch our AutoCAD workstations in favor of touchscreen "apps" like AutoCAD WS. That's not going to cut into our productivity, not at all. Besides, how can one be opposed to the FUTURE? The jury has been adjourned on that one a long time ago. Progress always means better, even when it doesn't, right?
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I've no idea how your business uses PCs and PC software. However, I get the sense that you feel that switching to AutoCAD WS would be a downgrade for your business. If this is the case, why would you even consider telling your boss to do that? Are you barking mad? Why would you suggest a change when your current solution is perfectly adequate and will be so for the foreseeable future?

How can one be opposed to the future? Easy. They can run around with their head up their ass, screaming and yelling about the world they wished they lived in as opposed to the one that actually exists. But why am I telling you this? You seem far more qualified to discourse on how to be opposed to the future than I.

And yes, by definition, progress means "better." Look it up in the dictionary.

By the way, I'm still waiting to see what evidence you can muster to show that Windows 8 is actually, concretely and objectively worse than Windows 7. Your opinion on the issue is not actually evidence.
 
Lyric Suite said:
The future of PC being the end of desktop computing. First they destroyed PC gaming with the introduction of the Xbox, now they destroy the PC platform itself. Ho Microsoft, will thine days of glory ever end?

I guess tomorrow i'll try to tell my boss to ditch our AutoCAD workstations in favor of touchscreen "apps" like AutoCAD WS. That's not going to cut into our productivity, not at all. Besides, how can one be opposed to the FUTURE? The jury has been adjourned on that one a long time ago. Progress always means better, even when it doesn't, right?
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And of course, nobody cares enough to make you use touch screen apps but you have to act like you are the victim of such action anyway. Desktop PCs will probably always be around, and if they aren't, it's because something that's universally accepted to be better has taken their place. I don't really even know what touch screen apps have to do with it, Win 8 is nicer for the desktop with KB/M in my experience. Oh well, can't make people see 'better', just like old people who still watch black & white tvs I guess, just consider all the contrived arguments they make.. Being stubborn for no reason, hoping someone will come beg you to accept progress, must be an unexciting life.
 
Dogs said:
Well there you go. Windows 8 isn't even out yet and you've already found a way to get your beloved start menu back. Now you have nothing to complain about.
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Not really. Return of Start Menu doesn't fix all the other annoyances and removals: http://social.technet.microsoft.com...l/thread/18b53644-6c6b-4d32-820a-53134a0913f3 Not everyone will miss everything but there was no reason to remove functionality and dumb it down further as we are constantly battling against MS dumbing it down after XP.
 
Eman D. Rahym said:
You know, there is this thing out there called "reality." You ought to stop in to visit once and a while, just for a change from your day to day life.
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Well then, why bother having standards or goals in anything. Take crime for instance. Why should we even make an effort in pursuing offenders? Crime is just part of the "reality" of the human condition. Might as well get "real" and accept the world for what it is. What a fantastic philosophy you have going there.

Eman D. Rahym said:
I sure don't see the end of desktop computing. It appears Microsoft agrees with me as Windows 8 seems to be doubling down on their corporate bet on desktop computing what with all the enhancements the Windows 8 experience provides over Windows 7.
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You sound like a corporate shill. There's isn't the slightest ounce of actual content or essence in what you said, just empty words or slogans. Do you perchance actually work in the industry?

Eman D. Rahym said:
However, I get the sense that you feel that switching to AutoCAD WS would be a downgrade for your business.
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AutoCAD WAS is a toy, just like Photoshop Express is. They are not "real" programs in any sense of the word. They are just something for the tablet crowd to amuse themselves with.

Of course, i'm sure you know that all too well, and your feigned nonchalance to the nature of those "apps" is just a way to ignore the point i was trying to make. You are not as clever as you think.

Eman D. Rahym said:
By the way, I'm still waiting to see what evidence you can muster to show that Windows 8 is actually, concretely and objectively worse than Windows 7. Your opinion on the issue is not actually evidence.
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What you are looking for is mere discursive evidence, the lack of which however does not indicate there are no objective differences between the two systems. I already called your game a while back, and its called relativism.

To wit, no concrete discursive evidence can be brought forth to "prove" that Beethoven was a genius, while Brittney Spears is not. Yet, only a certified moron could possibly deny this "truth", which is just about as self evident as it comes.

BTW, on this last subject, lets talk about this:

Eman D. Rahym said:
Neither do I see PC gaming as being destroyed. I spent several hours this weekend playing Skyrim on my Windows PC. It worked fine. Or are you one of those console-tards who prefers an X-box over a PC?
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There is no difference between the X-box and the PC. All PC games are made for X-box first, hence, why Microsoft destroyed PC gaming. Skyrim too, despite being part of a franchise that developed exclusively for the PC, is a clear example of the erosion of quality in PC gaming due to the necessity to conform to console standards. To wit, the game is inferior to its predecessors in every way, except for Oblivion, another console title. Compared to Daggerfall, the game has been so simplified and dumped down as to bear almost no resemblance to the design philosophy of the original, and that is saying something considering Daggerfall was an unfinished mess to begin with.

The same argument can be made for every single franchise that made PC gaming what it was. Bioshock? Just a dumped down System Shock. Dues Ex: Revolution? Just a dumped down Dues Ex. Dragon Age? Just a dumped down Baldur's Gate and so on and so forth ad infinitum.

And its not just gameplay that's been affected. Development in visual technology for instance has reached a standstill years ago. The new Crysis 3 video shows barely any change from what the first Crysis looked like in 2008. Where are the games capable of taking advantage of all the powerful PC hardware of today? In reality, there are none.

Thus, in the final sense, what Microsoft is doing to desktop computing with Windows 8 is exactly what they did to PC gaming when the Xbox was first introduced. But according to you, all this is just "progress" and we should simply get used to the tide of things. Ho yes, about progress:

Eman D. Rahym said:
And yes, by definition, progress means "better." Look it up in the dictionary.
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The point is that there's no such thing as "progress", a continuous horizontal "evolution" of a given truth, for if truth could change, then it wouldn't be truth. To the contrary, everything in life works in a vertical, descending order. Meaning that there is an immutable "standard" hanging above humanity as a whole, and that the greatness of an individual or an entire society is measured purely in terms of proximity to said standard. In the specific case under examination here, the standard in question is that of perfection, in a purely pragmatic sense, since in the end an operating system is nothing more then a mere tool.
 
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Lyric Suite said:
The point is that there's no such thing as "progress", a continuous horizontal "evolution" of a given truth, for if truth could change, then it wouldn't be truth. To the contrary, everything in life works in a vertical, descending order. Meaning that there is an immutable "standard" hanging above humanity as a whole, and that the greatness of an individual or an entire society is measure purely in terms of proximity to said standard. In the specific case under examination here, the standard in question is that of perfection, in a purely pragmatic sense, since in the end an operating system is nothing more then a mere tool.
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:D:D:D
LOL
 
xpclient said:
Not really. Return of Start Menu doesn't fix all the other annoyances and removals: http://social.technet.microsoft.com...l/thread/18b53644-6c6b-4d32-820a-53134a0913f3 Not everyone will miss everything but there was no reason to remove functionality and dumb it down further as we are constantly battling against MS dumbing it down after XP.
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No, I agree that there are definitely legit complaints to be made about Windows 8, and I'm glad to see someone is actually making a reasonable attempt with them.

What I don't like is all these people whining about Windows 8 like it killed their dog, because they played with it for 20 minutes in a virtual machine (or worse, looked at some pictures) and decided they are incapable of using the interface. These people are not productive in any sense. Real complaints, like "Why was <Feature> removed? I need <Feature> for legitimate use cases <case A>, <case B> and <case C>." would have the potential to be recognized and possibly resolved by Microsoft were they not drowned out by all of the useless whining about the GUI, which simply isn't going anywhere.
 
Maybe Microsoft really needs to branch out into two directions, an Enterprise one, and a commercial oriented one with all the quirky and next-gen nonsense they want to slap on it. God knows they have the resources for it.
 
Dogs said:
These people are not productive in any sense. Real complaints, like "Why was <Feature> removed? I need <Feature> for legitimate use cases <case A>, <case B> and <case C>." would have the potential to be recognized and possibly resolved by Microsoft were they not drowned out by all of the useless whining about the GUI, which simply isn't going anywhere.
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While you may be correct in principle, part of the problem is that the entire design of the new GUI is what's at fault here, not any specific problem in implementation. Microsoft just needs to relent and allow us to ditch Metro in favor of a standard menu interface. Would it really be so hard to make the whole thing optional?

Look at what happened in the Linux world when Gnome 3 and Unity were released. People demanded a fall back option and eventually they got it.
 
Lyric Suite said:
While you may be correct in principle, part of the problem is that the entire design of the new GUI is what's at fault here, not any specific problem in implementation. Microsoft just needs to relent and allow us to ditch Metro in favor of a standard menu interface. Would it really be so hard to make the whole thing optional?
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That has nothing to do with what I was referring to. Please try again. Perhaps try reading all of the content I quoted in my post to get proper context before you try analyzing and responding to my post.
 
Dogs said:
...drowned out by all of the useless whining about the GUI, which simply isn't going anywhere.
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I think you are wrong. By the time SP1 comes out I'm guessing Metro will either be gone or optional. Just wait till Win8 makes it to retail and comes on PCs... there is now way in hell most peoples' parent or grand parent will be able to use metro. Its too much change and not in a good way. Some people will have a really hard time using metro, right now you've got the hardcore PC users playing with it (technet, leaked iso, etc)... just wait till the group of people much less skilled than us gets hold of it. I'd hate to be a MS tech support agent on October 26th. Its gonna be a fucking mess...
 
dnottis said:
I think you are wrong. By the time SP1 comes out I'm guessing Metro will either be gone or optional. Just wait till Win8 makes it to retail and comes on PCs... there is now way in hell most peoples' parent or grand parent will be able to use metro. Its too much change and not in a good way. Some people will have a really hard time using metro, right now you've got the hardcore PC users playing with it (technet, leaked iso, etc)... just wait till the group of people much less skilled than us gets hold of it. I'd hate to be a MS tech support agent on October 26th. Its gonna be a fucking mess...
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I don't see why you think that. I doubt you know more about new users than I or MS, and it seems to me that Win 8 is easier to use than any previous version to me. Also MS has probably done millions of dollars in user testing, to see how new users and old alike react to Win 8. At this point I'm thinking you will say anything bad about Win 8 that is correct English syntax with no regard for correlation to reality.
 
devil22 said:
I don't see why you think that. I doubt you know more about new users than I or MS, and it seems to me that Win 8 is easier to use than any previous version to me. Also MS has probably done millions of dollars in user testing, to see how new users and old alike react to Win 8. At this point I'm thinking you will say anything bad about Win 8 that is correct English syntax with no regard for correlation to reality.
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I work in a technical support field and Win8 is creating a huge mess while we prepare documentation / proceedures for this. I don't work for MS, but I work for another company that Windows 8 will affect. Trust me, when the grandma / grandpas of the world get this, all hell is going to break loose. I have spent countless hours on the phones walking people through "steps"... I know, oh I know. Luckily, I no longer have to deal with that, but I'm a stones throw away from the people that do.

millions of dollars in user testing? people have been bitching about metro since the beginning. MS ignored any of these complaints and just went ahead with this UI, they don't really give a shit if you can't find the device manager anymore - they want you to use big colored AOL like blocks because someone there decided it was better for you. They've decided we are all stupid and that a start menu is too complicated. They are insulting you and you don't even see it.
 
dnottis said:
I work in a technical support field and Win8 is creating a huge mess while we prepare documentation / proceedures for this. I don't work for MS, but I work for another company that Windows 8 will affect. Trust me, when the grandma / grandpas of the world get this, all hell is going to break loose. I have spent countless hours on the phones walking people through "steps"... I know, oh I know. Luckily, I no longer have to deal with that, but I'm a stones throw away from the people that do.
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Your tech support experience is not comparable to the testing MS does with new users. It just isn't. I'm not intimately familiar with the details, but it's probably millions of dollars and thousands of random users (think back to your statistics class before you say that's not much.)
 
devil22 said:
Your tech support experience is not comparable to the testing MS does with new users. It just isn't. I'm not intimately familiar with the details, but it's probably millions of dollars and thousands of random users (think back to your statistics class before you say that's not much.)
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They are insulting you and you don't even see it.
 
dnottis said:
...

millions of dollars in user testing? people have been bitching about metro since the beginning. MS ignored any of these complaints and just went ahead with this UI, they don't really give a shit if you can't find the device manager anymore - they want you to use big colored AOL like blocks because someone there decided it was better for you. They've decided we are all stupid and that a start menu is too complicated. They are insulting you and you don't even see it.
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People bitch as a past time on this planet, MS user experience testing probably showed out that a certain amount would not like it, but that most would, or else they would have made changes to make more people happy. MS is in the business to make money, and despite what the internet rage squad believes, that generally involves making people happy to a large extent. And no I don't see it, because it does not exists except in the minds of people who would bitch about anything MS does anyway, imo.

They are insulting you and you don't even see it.
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What I see is a quicker, better looking, and more organized interface, on top of some pretty good technical improvements. Sorry, should I be mad?
 
dnottis said:
I think you are wrong. By the time SP1 comes out I'm guessing Metro will either be gone or optional. Just wait till Win8 makes it to retail and comes on PCs... there is now way in hell most peoples' parent or grand parent will be able to use metro. Its too much change and not in a good way. Some people will have a really hard time using metro, right now you've got the hardcore PC users playing with it (technet, leaked iso, etc)... just wait till the group of people much less skilled than us gets hold of it. I'd hate to be a MS tech support agent on October 26th. Its gonna be a fucking mess...
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Some will definitely need some training or help but I don't think people will be as helpless as you're saying. I just setup my sister-in-law with an HP tm2 Tablet PC running Windows 8 this weekend and she didn't seem to have much of a problem with it. She wasn't thinking about the Start Button or menu and took pretty well to the touch. And with Office 2010 on it it worked perfectly with her documents, that what she was concerned about.

Yes there's no doubt that some will hate Windows 8, but some are really going to like it especially with touch and the Metro apps and most people just really aren't going to give it much thought as long as it runs the same programs they've always run.
 
dnottis said:
Lets see what Hardocp users feel...

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1712297

Simple poll, metro or classic?
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Well I don't think there's any surprise with how this will go. But there's caveats to this. The biggest on is that Windows 8 isn't just a desktop and keyboard and mouse driven OS. One simply can't appreciate it without using it on touch devices.

I know that everyone things that the vast majority Windows 8 users will be on traditional PCs and while correct I think touch and tablet users will be the ones adopting the fastest.
 
So lets ask people which interface they like better and when they all say classic we can blame it on anything other than metro...

the poll is for PC only, I dont care about tablets. my cell phone is Window, the blocks are ok on that cause it's touchscreen, its the desktop we are talking about.
 
dnottis said:
So lets ask people which interface they like better and when they all say classic we can blame it on anything other than metro...

the poll is for PC only, I dont care about tablets. my cell phone is Window, the blocks are ok on that cause it's touchscreen, its the desktop we are talking about.
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Yea, you sit there, spam F5 and get gleeful at every 'classic' vote. Meanwhile, I'll go use Win 8 and enjoy a quicker, more efficient, and stylized experience (not to mention the under the hood improvements and fixes.) Hell, there's no way to even know if the people voting in that poll have USED Windows 8 RTM, or even RP.
 
dnottis said:
I think you are wrong. By the time SP1 comes out I'm guessing Metro will either be gone or optional. Just wait till Win8 makes it to retail and comes on PCs... there is now way in hell most peoples' parent or grand parent will be able to use metro. Its too much change and not in a good way. Some people will have a really hard time using metro, right now you've got the hardcore PC users playing with it (technet, leaked iso, etc)... just wait till the group of people much less skilled than us gets hold of it. I'd hate to be a MS tech support agent on October 26th. Its gonna be a fucking mess...
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I doubt it. I'm pretty sure even a well trained dog could use Metro. Everything about it is extremely simple. Any time you want to go to an app, you go to the start screen and click on the app you want. When you're done with that app, you go to the start screen and click on another app. I'm sorry, but as stupid as the general public is, they're cognitively functioning enough to handle metro, much like how they're cognitively functioning enough to use a television or a microwave.

devil22 said:
I don't see why you think that. I doubt you know more about new users than I or MS, and it seems to me that Win 8 is easier to use than any previous version to me. Also MS has probably done millions of dollars in user testing, to see how new users and old alike react to Win 8. At this point I'm thinking you will say anything bad about Win 8 that is correct English syntax with no regard for correlation to reality.
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I agree. dnottis just sounds bitter and angry, and doesn't seem to have a good view on the actual topic at hand. It seems as though he's just looking for every opportunity to reassure himself that Windows 8 isn't going to work out.

dnottis said:
I work in a technical support field and Win8 is creating a huge mess while we prepare documentation / proceedures for this. I don't work for MS, but I work for another company that Windows 8 will affect. Trust me, when the grandma / grandpas of the world get this, all hell is going to break loose. I have spent countless hours on the phones walking people through "steps"... I know, oh I know. Luckily, I no longer have to deal with that, but I'm a stones throw away from the people that do.
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Watch out, guys! We've got a real technical support professional here!

You see, you're not alone in your 'technical support' background. I too have extensive tech support and IT background. I think there's a considerable amount of people here who have tech support and/or IT background.

I personally have been through the whole 'transition to a new operating system' thing a couple times, and an IT department that is operating well will have no real issues making the transition. Sure, there's work involved, but that's to be expected with any semi-user facing technological transition. The scale of the work involved depends on how elegantly and competently you plan and execute the transition.

dnottis said:
millions of dollars in user testing? people have been bitching about metro since the beginning. MS ignored any of these complaints and just went ahead with this UI, they don't really give a shit if you can't find the device manager anymore - they want you to use big colored AOL like blocks because someone there decided it was better for you. They've decided we are all stupid and that a start menu is too complicated. They are insulting you and you don't even see it.
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Again, you sound angry.

devil22 said:
Not really random. People who are begrudged are more likely to vote in an online poll, and people have not had time to learn the best way to use the new GUI. But whatever.
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Not random at all. In fact, anybody who has taken even a basic class in statistics should be able to tell you that. Like you said, there's the motivation of those voting; Angry people, like dnottis are going to be far more driven to take the time to vote than people who have nothing against the Metro interface. Then there's the whole dichotomy of his sampling technique, which again is biased. This forces voters to commit their decision to either one interface or the other irrespective of use case or context, and it alienates the users who may enjoy or tolerate the Metro interface but are ultimately more familiar with the classic interface.

And then you have to look at where he's sampling from in contrast to what point he's trying to argue with the results of the survey. He's sampling on an internet forum for computer/technology enthusiasts. The members of this forum are not representative of the user space as a whole, yet he created this survey in the middle of an argument about users in general. If we were trying to discuss whether or not Metro would be appealing among Hard-forum users if they were being forced to use only one interface or the other on all of their Windows devices, the survey would be completely purposeful, but outside that scope it's relatively meaningless.
 
I'm not angry. I've installed ClassicShell and can deal with it otherwise. I enjoy the performance of Win8.

Why is it that everyone that doesn't like Metro is considered "haters" or "angry"? Pretty immature to assume that. I dont hate MS, at all. I think they've made a mistake with Metro as the UI on the desktop. and with a few tools Windows 8 looks just like Windows 7 which I think most people will opt for. I just don't see why MS needs to try and push this crappy UI down our thoughts, why not give people the option on installation?

You guys sound more angry that everyone isn't jumping for joy over metro.
 
dnottis said:
I'm not angry. I've installed ClassicShell and can deal with it otherwise. I enjoy the performance of Win8.

Why is it that everyone that doesn't like Metro is considered "haters" or "angry"? Pretty immature to assume that. I dont hate MS, at all. I think they've made a mistake with Metro as the UI on the desktop. and with a few tools Windows 8 looks just like Windows 7 which I think most people will opt for. I just don't see why MS needs to try and push this crappy UI down our thoughts, why not give people the option on installation?

You guys sound more angry that everyone isn't jumping for joy over metro.
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It's not your opinion that makes you sound angry. It's the way you deliver it, and the way you ignore counter-points and simply divert the discussion towards some other point you feel makes Windows 8 look bad. That's what makes you sound angry.
 
heatlesssun said:
It's not so much that people don't know what's best for them but are they being realistic about the future of the PC. I just saw this: http://www.usatoday.com/money/small...ent-small-business-apps/57121726/1?csp=34tech

This article is going to the heart of what many people say suck about tablets, productivity and flying right in the face of that assumption.
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From previous posts, you seem pessimistic (as opposed to realistic) about the future of the desktop. I saw this: http://gs.statcounter.com/#mobile_vs_desktop-ww-monthly-201107-201207. Granted, in the future, Windows 8 Pro on tablets will muddy the waters, but it isn't now.
 
I had a tablet, I found it to be rather useless. Hated the touchscreen keyboard.

I'd rather be at a desktop of my laptop.
 
I gave win8 to some of my normal (not IT friendly) family over the weekend. The response from a dozen people was 100% "wow that's different!" followed by 5 minutes of training and they all took to it like ducks to water. A couple of them got microsoft accounts, setup live tiles with email, contacts, facebook crap, and other things. One that leaned a little more toward 'savvy' had almost every default tile functional and updating with slideshows and videos and whatnot. I was quite impressed. I was really really waiting for backlash and anger but got none. A few asked me how soon they could have it permanently.
 
rsbennett00 said:
I gave win8 to some of my normal (not IT friendly) family over the weekend. The response from a dozen people was 100% "wow that's different!" followed by 5 minutes of training and they all took to it like ducks to water. A couple of them got microsoft accounts, setup live tiles with email, contacts, facebook crap, and other things. One that leaned a little more toward 'savvy' had almost every default tile functional and updating with slideshows and videos and whatnot. I was quite impressed. I was really really waiting for backlash and anger but got none. A few asked me how soon they could have it permanently.
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Yea I think the 'tech pros' idea of what new users can and want to do are very different from what those new users actually can and want to do, so it doesn't surprise me. Even without understanding the design philosophy and customization abilities, I can see how a new user would find it quite appealing, it just looks 'neat' to use valley girl lingo.
 
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