Windows 8 RTM vs win8 release preview

[manders2600]

And when one gets to the desktop, what does one do? Look at the wallpaper or run a program what that can be done from the Start Screen. This is just a non-issue, it has virtually no practical implications in the real world.

Can you launch the desktop versions of Chrome or Internet Explorer from the start screen?

While you may not go to the desktop, many do. The desktop can contain widgets and quick, at-a-glance information that many people (myself included) like to see at startup, which do not have metro live-tile analogues (eg: Rainmeter). In addition, the shortcuts and layout of the desktop can be customized to one's liking, while the start screen cannot.

 

[manders2600]

Sure, a developer will spend his resources on the biggest bang for the buck but Metro apps and desktops apps serve different needs and audiences and have different pricing structures. Metro apps are typically smaller and less functional than desktop equivalents. As the iPad and Android tablets have entered the market there's still a demand for higher function desktop applications and indeed many tablet apps are light weight versions of their desktop brethren that were designed to be simpler and touch friendly siblings of their bigger brother. Photoshop on the iPad was not intended to replace Photoshop on the desktop for instance, at least not at this point.

There is a distinction, in that neither iOS or Android are attempts at a desktop OS, and in fact neither are even available on a desktop. Developing an application for Android or iOS does not currently mitigate the need for a separate application on a desktop, regardless of whether or not the functionality will be the same.

There are, however, many examples of apps designed for each of these OSes that work better on either the phone hardware or the tablet hardware, but have not been properly redesigned for the other. Device convergence is great, as is UI convergence, but removing functionality to achieve this is not.

 

[heatlesssun]

Can you launch the desktop versions of Chrome or Internet Explorer from the start screen?

IE can be configured to launch the desktop version from the Start Screen tile. I would imagine that all Windows 8 browsers that support Metro style browsers will have this option. I have IE setup this way on my desktops but keep the default on my mobile devices.

While you may not go to the desktop, many do. The desktop can contain widgets and quick, at-a-glance information that many people (myself included) like to see at startup, which do not have metro live-tile analogues (eg: Rainmeter). In addition, the shortcuts and layout of the desktop can be customized to one's liking, while the start screen cannot.

This behavior only happens on a restart. How often does the average person need to do a restart? I know that they a very rare for me. And there's going to Live Tiles for just about anything.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The problem is not only that that Metro isn't a desktop interface, but that it is less of a desktop interface then even Android or iOS are. The latter in particular is has straight forward as they come. You have a dock, a desktop, and icons which can be grouped into folders with a single drag and drop operation. Settings are all contained in one single easily accessible menu. I mean it couldn't possibly be any more simpler.

The thing that makes Metro such a failure of course is not just the fact the interface is crap even from the standards of other touch screen operating systems, which are more "desktop-like" then Metro is, but of course that now you have to flip through different screens and arcane pop up flaps just to get to things which were originally easily accessible within a single screen. Windows 8 its just about the most schizophrenic operating system ever designed.

Some may argue that after a few adjustments the interface can still be used relatively efficiently, even if you feel like drilling holes into your pupils through out the whole ordeal. But that's a none argument. Ideally, i could probably learn to type quite easily using my penis alone, but no matter how adept i could become at doing it, it doesn't mean it is an efficient way to doing it. So yes, you could get used to Metro, but productivity relies not on the ability to accomplish something per-se, but to be able to accomplish it quickly, easily and efficiently, everything Metro is poised against, seemingly by design.

I'm not even going to mention at this point all the ludicrous applications that come with system (maps, skydrive, sports, news, bing, camera, music etc), which have to be removed one by one after every installation, or the integrated app store, or the ads (seriously? i mean, seriously?), or the necessity to have to create an Xbox account (SERIOUSLY?)

At the very least, somebody seems to be thinking about the needs of us few remaining people (apparently), who want to use their computers for serious or business related work:

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2012/06/07/win8_enterprise_yesno/

An enterprise edition would be most welcome of course, but unlikely. I've tested the Windows Server 2012 RTM release, and its not much different then its desktop counterpart. If they can't even keep that Metro nonsense away from their server edition, then its unlikely they'll budge for their desktop releases.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I think of all of the complaints of Windows 8, this one is pretty meaningless.

To the contrary, it is one of the most pertinent complains, and the fact the server edition boots directly into the desktop is proof that even Microsoft realizes that booting directly into Metro works against productivity.

I would think that after years of skipping metro in order to reach the desktop every single time one turns the computer on would be enough to make one develop psychopathic tendencies.

 

[heatlesssun]

The problem is not only that that Metro isn't a desktop interface, but that it is less of a desktop interface then even Android or iOS are. The latter in particular is has straight forward as they come. You have a dock, a desktop, and icons which can be grouped into folders with a single drag and drop operation. Settings are all contained in one single easily accessible menu. I mean it couldn't possibly be any more simpler.

Not really sure what the point here is. An OS that doesn't even support a mouse officially is more of a desktop OS than Metro?

To the contrary, it is one of the most pertinent complains, and the fact the server edition boots directly into the desktop is proof that even Microsoft realizes that booting directly into Metro works against productivity.

I would think that after years of skipping metro in order to reach the desktop every single time one turns the computer on would be enough to make one develop psychopathic tendencies.

The complaint may be common but how it really impacts things, it just doesn't.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

Hey, I just tried that, and it works! Awesome! I had no idea, thanks!

This kind of sums up my position on Windows 8 in a nutshell. It's not worse than Windows 7, it's just different. After you've spent some time with it and learned how to use it you'll be fine. You know what? Excepting the stick-in-the-mud Luddites, everyone else will learn how to use it and will be fine too. Soon, it won't be Windows 8, it will just be Windows. Exactly like every other version of Windows that has come out over the years. There will be no lakes of fire. The sun will still rise every morning and set every evening. Life will go on pretty much as it did before except that in addition to our old familiar desktop programs we'll have a whole new world of Metro apps to explore.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Not really sure what the point here is. An OS that doesn't even support a mouse officially is more of a desktop OS than Metro?

The touch screen interface IS the mouse. Your point is redundant of course, because if iOS were to be made available for the desktop, it would have mouse support. In short, we are not comparing those operating systems per-se, but their inherent design.

The complaint may be common but how it really impacts things, it just doesn't.

It does, particularly because it is only one among a large number of annoyances, so it tends to add to the collective atrocity that is this interface.

 

[Lyric Suite]

This kind of sums up my position on Windows 8 in a nutshell. It's not worse than Windows 7, it's just different.

Nonsense. It is actually, concretely and objectively worse. If i asked whether Britney Spears was as good an artist as Beethoven, people like you would argue that "its all a matter of opinion", which is the same thing as saying objective truth does not exist. Which begs the question, why even bother commenting on a given subject if you think its all relative?

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

Nonsense. It is actually, concretely and objectively worse.

What you freely assert, I freely deny.

How is Windows 8 actually, concretely and objectively worse than Windows 7? I don't want just your pissant opinions either, but objective data and facts. For my side of the argument I'll simply refer you to the Building Windows 8 blog. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/ I'd say Microsoft has done their homework and thought long and hard about Windows 8. That, combined with my personal experience that Windows 8 works better than Windows 7 leads me to conclude that your statements are simply fatuous vaporings rather than objective observations of fact. I invite you to prove me wrong.

 

[Lyric Suite]

How is Windows 8 actually, concretely and objectively worse than Windows 7?

Because it is a blending of two different design philosophies that don't go together. Using Windows 8 its like having to switch constantly and arbitrarily between two different operating systems. In Windows 7, everything you needed was contained within a single screen, and everything was "unified" in a single, consistent design paradigm. In Windows 8, you have to switch constantly between different screens and flap panels, each designed in its own unique way and bearing no relation to the other. It is "schizophrenic" in the literal, medical definition of the word.

I mean, hell, even those things which are actually an improvement over Windows 7, such as the leaner, non-glassy design of the interface, are accidental rather then inherent to any particular effort from Microsoft's part to achieve greater efficiency. That is, the only reason they ditched Aero-Glass is because it would have taxed the hardware of a certain number of touchscreen devices unduly. How quaint can you possibly get?

 

[Lyric Suite]

What you freely assert, I freely deny.

In short, you stand by your own relativism. Which again begs the question, why bother to share an opinion on a given subject if you believe there is no such thing as an "objective" assessment?

 

[bAMtan2]

And when one gets to the desktop, what does one do? Look at the wallpaper or run a program what that can be done from the Start Screen. This is just a non-issue, it has virtually no practical implications in the real world.

the desktop does more than the metro start screen. this is undeniable

The problem is not only that that Metro isn't a desktop interface, but that it is less of a desktop interface then even Android or iOS are.

yeah we got the message. some of you guys need to learn when to quit

 

[devil22]

Because it is a blending of two different design philosophies that don't go together. Using Windows 8 its like having to switch constantly and arbitrarily between two different operating systems. In Windows 7, everything you needed was contained within a single screen, and everything was "unified" in a single, consistent design paradigm. In Windows 8, you have to switch constantly between different screens and flap panels, each designed in its own unique way and bearing no relation to the other. It is "schizophrenic" in the literal, medical definition of the word.

I mean, hell, even those things which are actually an improvement over Windows 7, such as the leaner, non-glassy design of the interface, are accidental rather then inherent to any particular effort from Microsoft's part to achieve greater efficiency. That is, the only reason they ditched Aero-Glass is because it would have taxed the hardware of a certain number of touchscreen devices unduly. How quaint can you possibly get?

If it's schizophrenic, then why does it work better (at least for me and about any other person using Windows in a way that make sense?) Schizophrenia comes from the words 'split mind' because the mind does not work as well. In Windows 8, I can launch a larger number of programs, faster than in Windows 7, without making as many mistakes. The transition to the start screen does not punch you in the face when it happens, which one might get the impression happened from reading your comments on it. It simply switches screens, gives you a large dedicated page to choose your apps from then switches to the app when you launch it. I mean, like how can anybody deal with such pain?? I'm hooked on Windows 8 and the start screen, and use KB/M. I won't touch a tablet (or compute on a phone) with a 10 foot pole. It is sad to think humans are confounded by such change, and some must convey human qualities that are universally feared to it (calling it 'schizophrenic') when it is simply a new and different way to do things, a way I find really efficient, and to me that's what matters when it comes to computers.

And regarding aero, I guess you think it's not possible they wanted to do something new? It is always the tablets sabotaging the PC master race, isn't it? Maybe they did change it for tablets, and maybe they didn't. The important metric is how does it look, and how do people receive it. I like them about the same, and as far I remember, most people didn't like aero glass anyway.

 

[D4rkn3ss]

oh dear...

complain all you like, it wont change anything, let me try to enlighten you:

ms fucktards are little people who live inside of trees, they dont inhabit the human realm, they dont know anything about it, the developers talking on youtube and posts that you see on the ms blog are done by actors and pr people to hide the truth and pretend they have some idea of whats going on because in reality they dont. since ms fucktards dont interact with humans youre only arguing with yourselves, all you can do is:

option 1: use it

option 2: dont use it

thats it. there is a shortcut but it involves a quick trip to r'lyeh and dealing with the old ones but everybody knows is not advised to be fiddling with this matters.

 

[dnottis]

And when one gets to the desktop, what does one do? Look at the wallpaper or run a program what that can be done from the Start Screen. This is just a non-issue, it has virtually no practical implications in the real world.

well I certainly don't want to see huge colored squares of the applications I have installed. and since most the apps I open from metro just bounce me to the desktop whats the point of not just booting to the desktop?

 

[dnottis]

ms fucktards are little people who live inside of trees, they dont inhabit the human realm, they dont know anything about it, the developers talking on youtube and posts that you see on the ms blog are done by actors and pr people to hide the truth and pretend they have some idea of whats going on because in reality they dont. since ms fucktards dont interact with humans youre only arguing with yourselves, all you can do is:

ah you must've been hitting the wrong key the whole time... those are the apple fucktards. You're forgiven, we fixed it.

 

[chinesepiratefood]

What I still can't understand is why everyone who hates Metro thinks they actually have to use it? There is no denying that metro was created due to the need for a more mobile friendly UI, so why do so many people think it is a desktop replacement? Do many of the current metro apps contain less functionality than their desktop counterparts? Yes. But who cares? Ultimate productivity is not the primary purpose of a tablet, so it is understandable that sacrifices are made in some areas to improve the apps experience on a mobile device. But I am not using a mobile device, so metro apps provide no benefit for me.

I have installed a 4 W8 releases (DP, CP, RP, RTM) and the only time I ever open Metro apps is right after I finish the installation to simply try out the apps and see what they are like. Once I move out of the exploration mode and start "using" my computer its as if Metro doesn't exist. The fact that so many people can't master such a simple concept is mind boggling.

My biggest complaint about RTM is that I wish the border thickness on windows in the desktop was thinner.

 

[D4rkn3ss]

ah you must've been hitting the wrong key the whole time... those are the apple fucktards. You're forgiven, we fixed it.

no, they are different creatures, apple fucktards live under your bed and like to bathe in the blood of children, whatever you do you must not:

1: look them in the eyes
2: throw water on them

 

[chinesepiratefood]

Because it is a blending of two different design philosophies that don't go together. Using Windows 8 its like having to switch constantly and arbitrarily between two different operating systems. In Windows 7, everything you needed was contained within a single screen, and everything was "unified" in a single, consistent design paradigm. In Windows 8, you have to switch constantly between different screens and flap panels, each designed in its own unique way and bearing no relation to the other. It is "schizophrenic" in the literal, medical definition of the word.

I mean, hell, even those things which are actually an improvement over Windows 7, such as the leaner, non-glassy design of the interface, are accidental rather then inherent to any particular effort from Microsoft's part to achieve greater efficiency. That is, the only reason they ditched Aero-Glass is because it would have taxed the hardware of a certain number of touchscreen devices unduly. How quaint can you possibly get?

All you have to use from Metro is the start screen. Calling that a 2nd OS is lunacy. Your complaint is a common one, but its one that I have never understood I have never once thought to myself; man I really hate how the start screen and the desktop look so different. Mainly because the only time I ever open the start screen is to search. As far as important features of an OS go - productivity, reliability, performance, security, compatibility Windows 8 is as good or better than Windows 7 in every area.

 

[dnottis]

the only icon I use from Metro is the desktop one lmao.

 

[devil22]

well I certainly don't want to see huge colored squares of the applications I have installed. and since most the apps I open from metro just bounce me to the desktop whats the point of not just booting to the desktop?

It makes sense to put people in a position where they can see the apps they want to run, since most people use their computers to run apps. And also to familiarize them with the start screen so they can understand it's advantages, instead of throwing them to the desktop where they might not realize what to do at first. I realize I'm talking about noob users here, but they are an important segment of the user base, hell everybody was new to computers once so they should be accommodated to a degree. Then also, a lot of people may just want to see info from live tiles, such as date, weather, stocks, etc. so the start screen can convey that information without any further action. I mean it's certainly not better to throw users to the desktop, then make them open the start page to run an app, ideally there would be very little on the desktop (or taskbar) since you'd want that to be an uncluttered user work space, so what are they going to do staring at a blank desktop?

 

[devil22]

the only icon I use from Metro is the desktop one lmao.

What do you do to open apps? Let me guess, you put short cuts in a folder and open the folder and run them? Or pin them to task bar? Start screen is better than either of those options, imo, it leads to confusion and mistakes to mix running and unrunning programs on the task bar, and minimizing all apps, then opening a folder and running short cuts is in no way more efficient than a well organized start screen. If you have some other setup, let's hear it.

 

[Terminus]

STAY MAD

 

[dnottis]

What do you do to open apps? Let me guess, you put short cuts in a folder and open the folder and run them? Or pin them to task bar? Start screen is better than either of those options, imo, it leads to confusion and mistakes to mix running and unrunning programs on the task bar, and minimizing all apps, then opening a folder and running short cuts is in no way more efficient than a well organized start screen. If you have some other setup, let's hear it.

Using classic shell so I still have a start menu...

 

[devil22]

Using classic shell so I still have a start menu...

Uh, well then *of course* you don't use the start screen. Why would you if you installed a 3rd party start menu? But honestly, you think you can open the classic shell program and launch all your programs faster than if you organized your start screen as pictured in some of the pics posted earlier in this thread? If not, what do you gain? The ability to look at a program behind the start menu while you launch a new program? I just can't imagine that's really that important if you rationally think it through. However, I must state that I've never tried classic shell so maybe it has some useful feature I'm not familiar with. I'd go download it, but I prefer not to install things unnecessarily, to reduce the possibility of something screwing up the OS.

 

[thecrafter]

This is a gray line but hopefully allowed:

I'm wanting to upgrade to Win 8 today but obviously it isn't available to consumer for another month. So I thought of torrenting the RTM and then activate it with a purchased key once MS releases the upgrade pack of theirs (the one that costs $40).

Do you think it will let me activate or would I have to reinstall?

 

[heatlesssun]

well I certainly don't want to see huge colored squares of the applications I have installed. and since most the apps I open from metro just bounce me to the desktop whats the point of not just booting to the desktop?

One can debate the aesthetics or reasons why all day long. All I am asking are what are the practical implications. How does seeing the Start Screen at boot up change anything? People are talking a lot about going to the desktop, people do not go to the desktop, they run apps. If there's something on the desktop to see before running an app, that's a very rare case and three's plenty of information that one can see with tiles.

But again, in all of this, this is the behavior at boot up, something that should be very rare for average people day in and out. Some are actually as though booting is a common or reoccurring action and if that's the case there are issues much deeper than the Start Screen behavior going on.

 

[jordan12]

So how are you guys making your own sections on the start?


I cant see how to do this..

 

[devil22]

So how are you guys making your own sections on the start?


I cant see how to do this..

Group items by moving them next to each other, make other groups by moving items further to the right, name groups by clicking the small minus zoom out button at the lower right, then right click a group and an option to 'name group' appears.

 

[Arainach]

o the contrary, it is one of the most pertinent complains, and the fact the server edition boots directly into the desktop is proof that even Microsoft realizes that booting directly into Metro works against productivity.

I would think that after years of skipping metro in order to reach the desktop every single time one turns the computer on would be enough to make one develop psychopathic tendencies.

Again: This only applies after reboots. If you're rebooting often you're doing it wrong. Sleep mode and Hibernate are wonderful things.

the desktop does more than the metro start screen. this is undeniable

I'm not sure what you're comparing here. The desktop sits there staticly. The Start Screen/menu launches programs, gives live tile updates, and so much more.

I'm wanting to upgrade to Win 8 today but obviously it isn't available to consumer for another month. So I thought of torrenting the RTM and then activate it with a purchased key once MS releases the upgrade pack of theirs (the one that costs $40).

Talk of piracy isn't allowed here, but you can't install Win8 without a serial (as in the installer won't continue without one).

Group items by moving them next to each other, make other groups by moving items further to the right, name groups by clicking the small minus zoom out button at the lower right, then right click a group and an option to 'name group' appears.

Or by Ctrl+Mouse Wheel, or by Ctrl+ +/-, or by Pinch Zoom with touch (it's a zoom out action, the button in the corner is just how it's exposed to mouse-only users).

 

[Dogs]

Using classic shell so I still have a start menu...

Well there you go. Windows 8 isn't even out yet and you've already found a way to get your beloved start menu back. Now you have nothing to complain about.

 

[maw]

OK, so I've forced myself to use Windows 8 RTM on my main PC instead of just tinkering around in a VM. My observations over the past two days:

- Still don't care for the Start Screen, but I'm finding ways around it. There's really not much I need on there besides the Desktop tile, though the weather and news tiles might be worth keeping around. I can almost get most things done without having to deal with the Start Screen.

- I have to admit, that once the hatred of the Start Screen simmered down, the desktop is really quite improved. I like the minimal chrome, and it makes everything a lot cleaner looking with snappier response. I also really like the new way file copying is done.

- Still mystified by the need for the "lock screen"? Why not just take me to the login prompt instead of making me click this useless screen first? As a bonus though, I no longer have to drag it down to get to the log in prompt.

- On a side note, what happened to Ctrl-Alt-Delete to unlock the computer? I thought this was an important security feature?

- My 11 year-old daughter took to it right away, she had no problems figuring things out, but then again, the only things she cared to figure out were how to find IE and iTunes. So this may not be too shocking a transition for casual (but not clueless) users.

- Finally! A taskbar that spans multiple monitors! Now if only I could pin things to the taskbar on my second monitor.

 

[heatlesssun]

So how are you guys making your own sections on the start?


I cant see how to do this..

Go the Semantic view by clicking on the "-" button in the lower right corner of Start Screen or holding the Ctrl key while using the mouse scroll wheel. In the Semantic view you can then right click on a group and name it. You have to arrange the group first while in normal view as you can only select and move groups in the Semantic view and not individual tiles.

It's a very manual process but the overall effect is very useful because you can place groups in the order than you want them and they can be arbitrarily arranged. At first I really didn't like this and criticized the lack of folders but when Semantic zoom was added to the Consumer Preview I really starting to like the flat structure. It is harder to setup but much faster to navigate than a lot of hierarchical folders I think.

 

[batteriesnotincluded]

A few questions I have.

1. Where is there a shortcut to go into the PC Settings (where you change your lock screen, etc.)? The only way I've found there is through User Control Panel.
**EDIT** Found it! When you go to settings to turn off the computer, it's below that.

2. How do you remove the Touch Keyboard? It seems to have been enabled when I installed my touchpad drivers, and I've disabled the service, but it keeps coming back.

3. Is there a way to adjust the colors/fonts? I'd prefer grey on black to the red or blue on gray I'm getting.

It's growing on me. Had to blow away a 2 hour installation due to the lack of Safe Mode and a fingeprint software conflict though.

 

[techie81]

I just installed and used Windows 8 RTM for about an hour.

For some reason, every time I open IE it gets stuck in a loop displaying some random error. Clicking on certain tiles would result in the system slowing down and it would come back to the desktop without displaying said tile's information.

I am currently running this in a VM and the performance is horrible, I have never seen anything like this before. I'm not impressed with Windows 8 RTM at all, but I will probably install it on a separate PC to make sure its not the VM causing issues.

 

[maw]

I just installed and used Windows 8 RTM for about an hour.

For some reason, every time I open IE it gets stuck in a loop displaying some random error. Clicking on certain tiles would result in the system slowing down and it would come back to the desktop without displaying said tile's information.

I am currently running this in a VM and the performance is horrible, I have never seen anything like this before. I'm not impressed with Windows 8 RTM at all, but I will probably install it on a separate PC to make sure its not the VM causing issues.

Sounds like a VM issue. I use VirtualBox and I know there are specific settings you have to use in order for Windows 8 to install and run properly.

 

[batteriesnotincluded]

Is there a way to shrink the tile size in the metro start screen? So much space is wasted.

 

[techie81]

Sounds like a VM issue. I use VirtualBox and I know there are specific settings you have to use in order for Windows 8 to install and run properly.

Please share these special settings.

 

[lightp2]

with respect to basic expectation coming from users new to the environment

1. I did a Windows 8 Consumer Preview installation yesterday.
2. then a Server 2012 Release Preview installation later.

On a Pentium D 805 with 4GB RAM. 1920x1080-LCD, doing this to learn more about Windows 8

3. Intel 945G-based setup. Performance is actually reasonable for Internet browsing.
4. 945G GPU is slightly slower inside W8CP. For example, testing the W8CP Pinball example, it was basically drawing the screen in slow motion.
5. I put in a nVidia GT 520. After driver update, the Pinball game now playable.

6. I removed W8CP after getting message that it is no longer supported by Windows Store App. (just trying to see generally how it works). I have a Server 2012 Release Preview USB so got it installed to have a look at the new Windows server environment. Seems neat

7. However, Windows Store is not inside Server 2012 Release Preview. So later maybe I will get the Windows 8 Release Preview to try out as well.

For installation, it might be better to start from USB Flash Drive. I use WinUSB to write the ISO file to USB Flash drive, similar tools can be found on Internet, including Microsoft own tool.