Windows 10 October Update is Losing User Data

LightsOut41

Limp Gawd
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Oddly enough, after running the update yesterday, my 70+ GB install of GTA V disappeared from Steam.
 

Gweenz

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Are you serious?

Do you really think it's par for the course for an *update* to break the whole thing like that?

That's exactly my point, chief. You don't know what is going to happen with your data. The point of a backup is so that you are covered in the case of any number of contingencies. The person in particular we are talking about has been using a computer for at least 23 years, they should know better.
 

Wolf_Tech

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And this is why I still run LTSB waiting for all the bugs to be worked out till next release. MS likes playing chess with peoples computers letting the pawns go first.
 

cdr_74_premium

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That's exactly my point, chief. You don't know what is going to happen with your data. The point of a backup is so that you are covered in the case of any number of contingencies. The person in particular we are talking about has been using a computer for at least 23 years, they should know better.

This hasn't been happing frequently, bar hardware failure, for the last 23 years.
 

pendragon1

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tl;dr, I call bullshit. my insider system has updated numerous times, never lost data. ive done the update on two other systems, no lost data. he fucked it up some how and its now time to blame ms for him not backing up data.
 

jardows

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Ok, sure, backup your data.

...but that is still basic QA. If it were a Linux distro doing that, you would hear the woodworking trembling from all people coming out of it to scream "those socially inept geeks screwed up again, I tell you!".
Like they were when a bug in the Linux kernel rendered a number of Lenovo laptop computers unusable at the hardware level?
 

Delicieuxz

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Well, Microsoft does say that Windows 10 Home and Pro are merely beta (pilot) versions of Windows, used to test new Windows features to get them ready for widespread deployment.

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...ches-cb-cbb-and-ltsb-semi-annual-channel.aspx

This is the latest version of Windows and is called Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted), this version receives all upgrades (new versions) and updates (patches) from Microsoft within a few days of their release. Semi-Annual Channel(Targeted) is what all home users get and what most small business corporate Pro users will get.

...

New feature update releases are initially considered as Semi-Annual Channel (Targeted) releases: organizations will use these for pilot deployments to ensure compatibility with existing apps and infrastructure. After about four months, the feature update will be declared as Semi-Annual Channel, indicating that it is ready for broad deployment.


If you want the real Windows, you'll have to get Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSC (formerly LTSB), maybe from eBay or reddit.


If people want to spare their computer the risk of downloading updates that, by Microsoft's own words, aren't ready for release, check out the guide here: 10 different ways to disable Windows Update in Windows 10



What's with all of these posts?:

Lol 23 years and 220GB's of files and you don't have a backup?

.... Who's dumb enough to store everything on a single HDD especially the C drive. Incompetent people I guess

Blah I shouldn't even need to comment further but people like that drive me nuts. What was your contingency plan if the hard drive crashed? If someone stole the computer? If you screwed up and accidentally deleted all your data?

People like that are just looking for someone to blame for their own short-sightedness.

The article says he had a back up. And whether data is backed-up or not is neither here nor there to the topic. As if having a back up makes a Windows update deleting user data no big deal. It's obviously a big deal as it obviously shouldn't be happening, and as the large majority of people are not technically familiar with backing up their PC.
 
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Gweenz

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This hasn't been happing frequently, bar hardware failure, for the last 23 years.

So....what's your point. That means something unexpected ISN'T going to happen? That's the funny thing about unexpected things, they happen when you least expect them. Ok let's assume our software companies are perfect and flawless and that any number of things not-hardware-related could never happen (as if we could eliminate all contingencies, but let's assume this theoretical reality could exist). Wouldn't you still want to back up your data in case of the most likely problem, which would be a hardware failure? You plan for the most common failures and that also has a tendency to overcome the least common. In this case, it absolutely would. Is it ever an excuse to say "I didn't back it up because I didn't think that would happen?" Come on, man.
 

mufcfan

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Well, Microsoft does say that Windows 10 Home and Pro are merely beta (pilot) versions of Windows, used to test Windows for corporate editions.

https://social.technet.microsoft.co...ches-cb-cbb-and-ltsb-semi-annual-channel.aspx




If you want the real Windows, you'll have to get Windows 10 Enterprise or LTSC (formerly LTSB), maybe from eBay or reddit.

Wrong.
You can use the slow ring ("Semi-Annual Channel") on the Pro edition, don't know or care about Home. That is what I normally use and would advise to anyone to use if they are afraid of the updates.

As an experiment, I didn't set this on my sister's Lenovo laptop. She only had one technical issue related to Win10 since it was originally bought and set up (by me) 2 years ago. She handled all updates herself, without any help from me.
She is a physio and generally has trouble with anything other than typing or browsing.
 

Gweenz

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What's with all of these posts?:


The article says he had a back up. And whether data is backed-up or not is neither here nor there to the topic. As if having a back up makes a Windows update deleting user data no big deal. It's obviously a big deal as it obviously shouldn't be happening, and as the large majority of people are not technically familiar with backing up their PC.

What's with all these posts is that it gets really old telling the same people over and over that they need to backup their important data, only to have that advice ignored and then it becomes an emergency for the poor schmuck who has to try to recover said data. I'm talking about people who should know better here, not Grandma Dorothy who doesn't have any data to back up to begin with.

It absolutely IS relevant to the topic. We do not live in a perfect world and backups aren't some kind of new fancy foreign technology. Anyone who has ever cut and pasted a file can grasp the potential power that a backup can provide. We can keep feeding people's ignorance or we can let them learn tough lessons in the same way we did, through pain and anguish, and then instructing them on the proper way to recover from situations such as this. They sure as shit aren't going to listen before something bad happens. If they continue to not listen, which they will, at what point does your sympathy vanish?

Microsoft fucked up big time here and deserves a ton of blame but if you have something important and you can make copies of it why wouldn't you? This isn't a foreign concept, if you have a paper document and you need multiple copies you stick in in a copier.
 

phatbx133

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For my preference for my rig.

1. C: OS with drivers that is it.

2. D: Games like steam, origin, uplay etc with clients on same drive.

3. E: Data backups backups backups.

4. F: Scratch disk like video edit with render, cache, projects files etc.

5. G: Media/Pic/.

6. H: Programs Files (I don't install any programs on drive C :.

Pretty much and plan to get some USB flash drives, maybe external storage drive.

Zero issues with high I/O disk and responsiveness and smooth.
 

mdburkey

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Even worse, with many of the garbage computers sold today, you can't even add a second drive. I was going to put an SSD in my wife's new Dell and use the 1TB drive for all of her data files.

So I open it up and the power supply has only two wires. One going to the motherboard and one that splits in two for the hard drive and DVD drive. The motherboard has 4 SATA ports, but, there's no way to get power for any additional drives.

So I figured that I would disconnect the DVD drive, she never uses it anyway, and use that to power the SSD. I couldn't believe what I found. Both the hard drive and DVD drive have some sort of weird, non-standard power connector that's completely different from any drive I've ever seen.

WTF.. WTF. WTF. WTF.

The power connector on those Dell's SATA drive is totally standard and the power connector on the DVD drive is the standard connector that has been used on laptops for years.

The power is sourced from the motherboard -- but a $3 SATA Y-split from Amazon solves the problem nicely. Additionally, there is another unused power header on the motherboard that can be used. The cable to hook to this can also be found on Amazon or Ebay for about $6.

Don't bash the system when you haven't checked things out adequately.
 

whatevs

Limp Gawd
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I can say that when i went to run the Windows storage cleaner tool, it said the "Windows.old" contained several hundred GBs of data, I let it do its work anyway, it was just counting symlinks wrong likely. Havnt detected any lost files.

edit: after manually forcing the October update. of course not crazy, i let some time and a few reboots happen after update, to make sure everything in the background is complete.
 

nilepez

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Didn't happen to me, but I must admit that I changed the directory for all documents to a different drive....oh and yeah I back up my stuff.
 

Kdawg

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i hate these forced updates.
how would they even know if the update is compatible with my laptop.

i haven't updated since 1709.
 

Disco_Stu_04

Limp Gawd
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Unsatisfactory. Especially from them.

It's been many years but ever since my recent upgrade to a 2700x I've been relearning linux. I'm digging the new look.
 

twzTechman

Limp Gawd
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Apr 14, 2011
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223
whew.... just checked my documents folder on my C drive. Everything is still there.

Of course, there is my local back up to an external drive... just in case.....

oh yea, and my offsite backup with Backblaze..... just sayin....
 

IdiotInCharge

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Right. And if someone punches you, it's your fault for not moving out of the way. That's the logic of this victim blaming.

No victim blaming here beyond pointing out the obvious. Perhaps Microsoft could do more to help people with single-drive systems keep their data backed up during updates, but just like keeping a fireproof safe at home and perhaps a box at a family member and/or a bank, you need more than one copy of your most important data.

Failing that, you alone are responsible for rolling the dice with a single copy.
 

DPI

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No victim blaming here beyond pointing out the obvious. Perhaps Microsoft could do more to help people with single-drive systems keep their data backed up during updates, but just like keeping a fireproof safe at home and perhaps a box at a family member and/or a bank, you need more than one copy of your most important data.

Failing that, you alone are responsible for rolling the dice with a single copy.

Whether or not someone takes personal responsibility and creates backups is not the issue.

The issue is Microsoft potentially deleting data and settings, uninstalling programs, or breaking programs or peripherals that were working fine before yet another one of their untested, featureless seasonal updates.

"Are all my programs still here? What am I missing, what did they delete this time? What's broken now that I may not immediate realize until I'm in a time crunch to use that program or feature that USED TO WORK before the update?" and constantly having to be on guard for all that bullshit.

It really shouldn't be a major mental challenge to understand the distinction.
 
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Saturn_V

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.... Who's dumb enough to store everything on a single HDD especially the C drive. Incompetent people I guess

1.) Don't keep your files on your OS drive

No need to use an inferior OS. Just need common sense.
Don't put everything on one drive.
Separate drives for OS and data.

And yet every time I go to my IT or my department head to provision Adobe CC workstations with second HDDs; they just look at me uncomprehendingly like cows at a passing train. "can't you just use the SSD/NetworkDrive/flash memory/etc?":rolleyes:

I've never had a home rig that didn't have separate OS and data HDDs. Never in over twenty years. I think that practice more than anything else has saved me from catastrophic data loss.
 

IdiotInCharge

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This really shouldn't be such a hardthink concept to understand the distinction.

You either have a backup or you're going to lose data to some issue at some point. That point should be very, very clear here.

Whether it's a problem with an OS update or a hardware failure or an accidental delete or rogue software or whatever the hell, not having a backup is asking to lose important information.
 

cdr_74_premium

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So....what's your point. That means something unexpected ISN'T going to happen? That's the funny thing about unexpected things, they happen when you least expect them.

Yep. And people responsible usually get all the heat that's coming their way when those things do happen, even when they're powerless to avoid it.

Ok let's assume our software companies are perfect and flawless and that any number of things not-hardware-related could never happen (as if we could eliminate all contingencies, but let's assume this theoretical reality could exist). Wouldn't you still want to back up your data in case of the most likely problem, which would be a hardware failure? You plan for the most common failures and that also has a tendency to overcome the least common. In this case, it absolutely would. Is it ever an excuse to say "I didn't back it up because I didn't think that would happen?" Come on, man.

Of course I do. And I understand your point. But this is a friggin' scheduled update. It's not rocket science. Why on earth would I have to come up with the most advanced disaster recovery plan for something that's supposed to be regular and done ASAP, especially after all the doo-doo Microsoft pulled to make sure nobody could avoid updating? Documents nowhere near the Windows folder vanishing for no reason is nowhere near the "common pitfalls to avoid" routines. I could wreck my Windows install in any way I choose, yet they would be there. I sure as hell would never expect them to vanish after a friggin' update, why would they? It's not like C:\Users should even be touched.

To top it off, backup or not, those are billable hours. You go try pull that stuff on anyone and you'll see the doodoostorm coming your way quick and massive. Now for some reason those corporations with all the resources to deal with it - or better yet, not let it happen in the first place - get a free pass, and the "deal with it" gets rolled down to the regular Joe which, in many cases, will have to pay someone to get his stuff back where it should be.

What in the actual fuck?!
 

pendragon1

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just read the 230gb guys thread and he never even mentions how much room is used on the hdd only whats in c:\users. so is he just missing it? I jut asked him...

Don't worry, next thing on SaaS is russian roulette file erasing. You should've paid for backup, amirite?
your data is always your responsibility. ms warns about backing up before updating.
 

Hagrid

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just read the 230gb guys thread and he never even mentions how much room is used on the hdd only whats in c:\users. so is he just missing it? I jut asked him...


your data is always your responsibility. ms warns about backing up before updating.
So then windows doesn't just always work.

Yeah, it is people responsibility but quite a few like I said, can turn it on, browse, install, etc, and not much else.
 

cdr_74_premium

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So then windows doesn't just always work.

Yeah, it is people responsibility but quite a few like I said, can turn it on, browse, install, etc, and not much else.

Don't worry. The very same people that are here saying this is all fine and dandy will freak out when you deploy Linux to your grandmother to do just what you described, because Windows "Just Works(tm)", and Linux is a shitstorm.

(at least Linux is free, and let me update whenever I desire, even if that means I won't ever update)
 

Hagrid

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That's what "you should've backed it up" amounts to. Suddenly it's not about Microsoft's fuckup anymore, but the users' actions (or lack of).

The fact that nobody said it verbatim doesn't make my point invalid.
This is what I thought as well, but yeah, both are at fault.
 

Vercinaigh

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No need to use an inferior OS. Just need common sense.

Don't put everything on one drive.
Separate drives for OS and data.
Backups
Backups
Backups
Backups
Backups of Backups

You highly wish on that first point, shame it has zero actual merit or is in any form correct.
Even above average users mostly do not know how to do this.
See point 2.
 

cdr_74_premium

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This is what I thought as well, but yeah, both are at fault.

Look, if it happened to me and I had to restore my backups, I would still be out of the time I wasted to fix something that's just not reasonable to happen after a regular update.
 

socK

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Right. And if someone punches you, it's your fault for not moving out of the way. That's the logic of this victim blaming.

How about MS not release continuous buggy updates until they're bulletproof and won't lose installed programs, data and settings.

You could flat out be unlucky and wake up to a failed disk. If it wasn't this, it'd just be something else.

Not protecting your the critical data is negligence.

If my file server ate shit and I had zero options for recovery, you better believe I'm toast. Some suit isn't going to give a fuck that Microsoft fucked up - because I fucked up worse in having no plan b.

And this is easier than ever now. I could just redirect all my documents library and even my desktop to OneDrive or something and enable files on demand.
 

Domingo

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I'd be interested in knowing exactly how many people this is affecting and what's behind it. Obviously not everyone is losing those folders.
 
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cdr_74_premium

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And this is easier than ever now. I could just redirect all my documents library and even my desktop to OneDrive or something and enable files on demand.

Isn't that the end game of those random fuckups after all? Give your data to them, and only then it'll be safe!

I'll be smiling when the "subscription-based support from Microsoft" arrives. That may be before the "pay-per-use Windows", or one of its "perks".
 

Gumby32

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I had zero issues upgrading 4 laptops, and 11 desktops in my house. Although I do a clean install once year on all machines. There is no way to make something work flawlessly on every single computer. Due to the fact that the majority of the users really having no clue on fully using a pc. Virus, malware, kids messing with reg. and settings. etc.
I do admit Windows has become more like a gaming release. Here is your new version but you must dl an update to fix it first.
Just my 2cents
 
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