Win 8 love

[heatlesssun]

Whatever they are part of, I dont want or need them. I will enjoy win 8 regardless!
I will just get rid of what I can and minimize it.

Fair enough. If you're only using Windows on legacy form factors that makes sense.

 

[Hagrid]

Fair enough. If you're only using Windows on legacy form factors that makes sense.

It will be on my main rig only, if it works ok.

 

[heatlesssun]

I will just use one of the 3rd party programs, much easier.

More familiar, not necessarily much easier. I never have understood the angst about booting up into the Start Screen. I simply just launch the first app that I want from the Start Screen, be it a desktop or Metro app. I go to and from applications, there's nothing to got to the desktop for, which is probably the case for most people.

The only exception that comes to mind for me is if one has desktop gadgets that they want to see. Live tiles do cover a lot of that functionality, I can get weather, stock info, news feeds, etc from those. However desktop gadgets are more powerful and can do more things, you can't have a CPU monitor in a Live tile for instance. Real time updating of live tiles would be awesome, but Microsoft has been pretty anal about power consumption and CPU hogging with Metro, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

 

[Hagrid]

More familiar, not necessarily much easier. I never have understood the angst about booting up into the Start Screen. I simply just launch the first app that I want from the Start Screen, be it a desktop or Metro app. I go to and from applications, there's nothing to got to the desktop for, which is probably the case for most people.

The only exception that comes to mind for me is if one has desktop gadgets that they want to see. Live tiles do cover a lot of that functionality, I can get weather, stock info, news feeds, etc from those. However desktop gadgets are more powerful and can do more things, you can't have a CPU monitor in a Live tile for instance. Real time updating of live tiles would be awesome, but Microsoft has been pretty anal about power consumption and CPU hogging with Metro, so I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I can do that with icons on my screen with 1 click. I put my important stuff on the taskbar.
Its much easier for me and I like it to start with the desktop showing. It can be done with the tiles i agree. But you also hit it on the head with more familiar. I dont have anything else windows 8, so it is easier.
People just want it their way most of the time, and I want it how I like it. I also use Linux which has pretty much the same structure as win 7, making that easier as well.

I dont have any gadget stuff. I really like a simple desktop with my programs within a click. But I also dont use windows for a living, so that might make a difference.

 

[Domingo]

I've been playing around for a week now and I'll admit that it has grown on me. The whole Metro/Desktop switch is still disjointed, but with some tweaking it's not as bad as I feared. I like several of the Live Tile apps that are pretty lightweight and do what I want.

 

[Snel]

I've got some questions regarding W8.
I bought it yesterday and I was able to buy it on an unregistered copy of windows 7. I was going to do a clean W7 install but decided to buy the W8 upgrade before activating my W7 copy. It worked, but do you think there is a difference in any way between buying it on a activated/not activated windows?

I was trying it out yesterday and after an our I had enough and installed W7 again. I don't hate W8 but I don't really like it either.
An hour after installing W7 I changed my mind again and I want to install W8 again when I get home.


I read that windows live messenger is going to stop working and they are switching over to skype, what will happen to the chat app that comes with W8 then? Will that also switch over to skype?
Then it feels like the skype app on the store will be pretty useless.
I'm having a really hard time getting used to Metro (Don't remember what it is called now)...

 

[MrCrispy]

I'm having a really hard time getting used to Metro (Don't remember what it is called now)...

It'll be forever called Metro, no matter how Microsoft tries to change the name, since they can't seem to decide.

 

[odditory]

It'll be forever called Metro, no matter how Microsoft tries to change the name, since they can't seem to decide.

Seriously. Got scared about Metro AG threatening to sue so backpeddled and claimed that Metro was "only ever an internal working name". Unfortunately then internal Microsoft memos leaked and there went that PR spin.

So MS renamed it - officially - to "Windows 8 Modern Style UX Larsson-Green Edition Pro now with the Windows 8 Applications Store" instead.

Just doesn't have the same ring, does it. Its not anywhere near as entirely authentic.

 

[heatlesssun]

Looks like all of those people that were supposed to switch to OS X and Linux aren't doing so: http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-has-surpassed-os-x-mountain-lion-in-market-share

And this is why Microsoft did what it did with Windows 8. Tablets certainly seem to be a much bigger threat to Windows than full desktop OS competitors such as OS X and Linux. Potentially Chromebooks are a problem, Acer today was praising them and dissing Windows 8 sales, but Chromebooks aren't really desktop replacements but keyboard and mouse driven terminals at this point.

 

[Hagrid]

Looks like all of those people that were supposed to switch to OS X and Linux aren't doing so: http://www.neowin.net/news/windows-8-has-surpassed-os-x-mountain-lion-in-market-share

And this is why Microsoft did what it did with Windows 8. Tablets certainly seem to be a much bigger threat to Windows than full desktop OS competitors such as OS X and Linux. Potentially Chromebooks are a problem, Acer today was praising them and dissing Windows 8 sales, but Chromebooks aren't really desktop replacements but keyboard and mouse driven terminals at this point.

I love linux, but I couldnt use it as my main machine.

I am sure the 3rd party software developers also thank MS for windows 8. (at least the ones that charge $$)

 

[Climber]

...
Then it feels like the skype app on the store will be pretty useless.
I'm having a really hard time getting used to Metro (Don't remember what it is called now)...

What specifically are you having a hard time with?

 

[Snel]

What specifically are you having a hard time with?

Well I don't excactly myself, I just can't get used to it. I went back to W7 again yesterday after only hours with W8 but I changed my mind after an hour and now I'm installing W8 again. I'm going to give it a few days, I don't hate it I just have a hard time getting used to everything that's new.

Speaking of installing Windows 8. I read that people couldn't activate their W8 copy when they chose custom during the installation and formatted the drive.
Because in order to activate you had to have an activated W7 copy and then click upgrade during the installation.

But when I bought W8 yesterday I had just done a fresh install of Windows 7 and not yet activated it and then I bought W8 and burned it to a disc. I then chose custom and formatted my drive and installed it and activated it.
How come it worked for me?

 

[Climber]

Who knows and why worry about it.

If you have any particular questions about windows 8 and how to get around in it let me know. It took an hour or so for me to get semi comfortable and there are still a few nuances I'm still learning but if I can help I'd be glad to

 

[Domingo]

Some quirks definitely come out when you use a live-tile browser like Chrome or IE. Programs that look for updates in a web browser will give error messages (ccleaner for instance), and trying to run an installer from a live tile browser appears to do nothing, but is "secretly" working fine on your desktop with no notice.

No matter what I do, I can't seem to totally get rid of UAC either. It still asks me a lot of questions and I've gotten "you need to be an admin" a fair amount even though my only account IS an admin.

 

[ManofGod]

It does not do it "secretly" if you just leave UAC alone. (Of course, if you just want what I think would be an insecure desktop, be my guest.) However, I so far have always had it switch to the desktop when an executable needs to run.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

No matter what I do, I can't seem to totally get rid of UAC either. It still asks me a lot of questions and I've gotten "you need to be an admin" a fair amount even though my only account IS an admin.

That's how privilege elevation works. Leave it alone. It's one of the most important security features in Windows.

Running as an administrator on Windows without UAC is akin to 'running as root' in Unix-like OS's. In terms of annoyance it's easier to deal with than the implementation of admin privilege elevation seen in Linux/Mac OS. Privilege elevation is a necessary component of modern OS security that people just need to get used to, if anything I'd actually recommend turning it up to the maximum setting (along with other things like turning on Data Execution Prevention).

 

[Disposed]

That's how privilege elevation works. Leave it alone. It's one of the most important security features in Windows.

Running as an administrator on Windows without UAC is akin to 'running as root' in Unix-like OS's. In terms of annoyance it's easier to deal with than the implementation of admin privilege elevation seen in Linux/Mac OS. Privilege elevation is a necessary component of modern OS security that people just need to get used to, if anything I'd actually recommend turning it up to the maximum setting (along with other things like turning on Data Execution Prevention).

You know what i dont get was all the hate on UAC starting with Vista. Its very similar to how *nix and Mac OS handles elevated privileges except you just click a confirmation box instead of entering your password.

UAC is the single biggest security feature added to windows ever. Every time i see someone suggest shutting it off i just shake my head. Although you dont see that as much these days.

 

[ThatsAgood1jay]

Since there is so much Win8 info going around in here, Ill post this here (and I apologize in advance If I just missed the answer to this question scanning the thread) instead of a new thread.

I would like to get in on the windows 8 deals before they disappear tomorrow. This would be for my desktop, which is homebuilt (obviously) so I am confused as to what version of Windows 8 I need to buy.

I bought an OEM version of windows 7 home premium when I put this new computer together last year. Can I buy the upgrade versions of W8 (specifically the $40 download from their site) and have it work ok? or will it recognize a previous OEM version and give me fits? Will I be able to create a USB stick and do a clean install from it with the upgrade version?

Update:Question was answered elsewhere.

 

[schizrade]

Some quirks definitely come out when you use a live-tile browser like Chrome or IE. Programs that look for updates in a web browser will give error messages (ccleaner for instance), and trying to run an installer from a live tile browser appears to do nothing, but is "secretly" working fine on your desktop with no notice.

No matter what I do, I can't seem to totally get rid of UAC either. It still asks me a lot of questions and I've gotten "you need to be an admin" a fair amount even though my only account IS an admin.

Fundamental misunderstanding of UAC.

 

[robertigoe]

Might I add, now that it's over... I really would still (have) recommended Windows 8 Pro... it works well. my last post was over two (2) months ago. It's only gotten better. I made a clean install on my hard drive, at on point, and was directed to reboot from disk, so I was able to choose to install the 64 bit version, and it is like night and day. I was able to improve the CPU performance by fully a third, and got my benchmark scores over a thousand. I know that many here might not be as impressed as I was, but I'm coming from five years of Windows Vista 32 bit OS on a computer I knew little about (sic), and only really used to surf the web. I could not even find my way around it... so I like the new operating system (with out start menus, or help) a lot. It makes you have to find your way around yourself, and for a change I feel really competent.

Hmm...

Okay. I guess I do need to take a breath and look back once in a while. I remember a Xerox computer I had on a black and white television when I was a little boy...

... my neighbors (a few blocks away, actually) had Atari... I never really got good at it. Video arcades...

... computer science class and programming in basic... and knowing there were other languages like dos...

There was no "Windows" graphical interface... and no ATMs...

How far back do you want to go...?

I feel like we're the Jetson's compared to when I was a little boy.

Sheesh I'm old. But I beat Ghost Recon...!!! And I beat most of Red Dead Revolver (I finished the mission and got all the guns, went through the board enough times...), but I couldn't unlock some of the hidden items, so okay... no one's perfect. I didn't use NO CHeats, either.

But the whole Ghost Recon... even the board where you have to shoot every one in the back with a pea shooter in the rain...!!! Not to mention the two one sniper versus every one (AI) boards... . Any one here do that? The whole thing... every last mission on the whole damn game. Crazy. And I'm old.

Say, any one here remember Nixon? I do... it's seems like yesterday... for real, now.

We're finally getting out of the shadow of Kennedy's Vietnam. When I was growing up, people wouldn't let on that it was Kennedy that did that to us... we all thought it was Nixon, and defended him because we thought it was important to support the president during a war...

Wow. Kennedy started that one. I feel like duh.

Okay. Good night for now. I went from a Athlon 64 4400+ with three gigabytes (3GB) of stock memory, and Windows Vista 32bit OS on a computer I hardly knew anything about, to a Phenom 965 Deneb with eight gigabytes (8GB, 2x 4GB) of DDR3-2000 GeIL PC-16,000 EVO Corsa memory running on Windows 8 Pro 64 bit OS in five months. So alright. I feel good... .

Happy New Millennia. Or century... or something...

Good night. Hope every one's okay...

Good night. Sleep tight... until we meet, again...

 

[Rugger]

I received my new laptop (MSI GT60) yesterday and it came with Win 8, at first I was lost, after goggling some tips to get around I started to explore. I went to the desktop and downloaded a trial of Start8, I need the start button as I am much too old to set in my ways to do with out it. I have started setting up my apps page and the first thing I notice is everything needs a Microsoft account, problem is I have standardized on Google for all my needs. I am now caught in the Google/Microsoft pissing match and won't get to use many of the things I use daily, gmail, calendar, contacts, goolge drive. This is too bad as I would use some apps if I could get the ones that will help my usage.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just setup the account, you don't actually have to use it for anything else except the Store.

 

[Rugger]

I have a old Hotmail account not sure if I remember how to log in. The main issue is I would like to only manage one account which in my case is Google. I will setup a account and try it out I am experiencing a bit of overload ATM as I just changed from Blackberry to a Droid phone (Samsung S3, which I love) and the new laptop with new OS and a new job in the last two weeks.

 

[Wrench00]

I received my new laptop (MSI GT60) yesterday and it came with Win 8, at first I was lost, after goggling some tips to get around I started to explore. I went to the desktop and downloaded a trial of Start8, I need the start button as I am much too old to set in my ways to do with out it. I have started setting up my apps page and the first thing I notice is everything needs a Microsoft account, problem is I have standardized on Google for all my needs. I am now caught in the Google/Microsoft pissing match and won't get to use many of the things I use daily, gmail, calendar, contacts, goolge drive. This is too bad as I would use some apps if I could get the ones that will help my usage.

This is one of my Biggest beefs with 8. First its bad enough your locked into windows but now they are trying to lock you into nothing but shity microsoft services. First thing I do on any new 8 machine is UNINSTALL EVERY METRO piece of shit.

I can't stand the ads and MS propaganda on an os I paid for.

 

[Disposed]

This is one of my Biggest beefs with 8. First its bad enough your locked into windows but now they are trying to lock you into nothing but shity microsoft services. First thing I do on any new 8 machine is UNINSTALL EVERY METRO piece of shit.

I can't stand the ads and MS propaganda on an os I paid for.

What ads and propaganda?

 

[Wrench00]

What ads and propaganda?

Launch some of the metro apps and see. Ad supported apps that are included in the os install. No I don't want Bing, No I don't give a shit about your maps, or skydrive, or Office 365.

Its bad enough I have to sit through Marketing bullshit from Microsoft to sell their products I just don't want to see that fucking garbage everywhere. Same goes for Android its why I have a rooted phone with ad blocking.

 

[Tsumi]

I received my new laptop (MSI GT60) yesterday and it came with Win 8, at first I was lost, after goggling some tips to get around I started to explore. I went to the desktop and downloaded a trial of Start8, I need the start button as I am much too old to set in my ways to do with out it. I have started setting up my apps page and the first thing I notice is everything needs a Microsoft account, problem is I have standardized on Google for all my needs. I am now caught in the Google/Microsoft pissing match and won't get to use many of the things I use daily, gmail, calendar, contacts, goolge drive. This is too bad as I would use some apps if I could get the ones that will help my usage.

You can add Gmail to the Metro mail app, Google calendar to the Metro Calendar app, and so on. Not sure about Google Drive.

 

[SuperSubZero]

You can add Gmail to the Metro mail app, Google calendar to the Metro Calendar app, and so on. Not sure about Google Drive.

They took out EAS support for Google in the last update, so the calendar totally stopped working.

Windows 8 doesn't "require" a Microsoft account but without one some of the built-in apps don't work or don't work right. one can create their MS account with their email address of whatever service they want, and it basically becomes a "settings only" thing. So you can still use whatever email as your primary.

 

[Eman D. Rahym]

This is one of my Biggest beefs with 8. First its bad enough your locked into windows but now they are trying to lock you into nothing but shity microsoft services. First thing I do on any new 8 machine is UNINSTALL EVERY METRO piece of shit.

I can't stand the ads and MS propaganda on an os I paid for.

Man, it must suck to be you. Why do you keep buying copies of Windows 8 if you hate it so much?

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

oh, where we go again with the "well you can always use a keyboard shortcut" This is getting older than the runs the OPs shorts......

Man, it must suck to be you. Why do you keep buying copies of Windows 8 if you hate it so much?

Maybe he likes torturing himself? (just a thought...)

 

[Wrench00]

Man, it must suck to be you. Why do you keep buying copies of Windows 8 if you hate it so much?

I buy VLK. I have rather purchased about 100 VLK windows 8 cals so far.

Yes most of them were upgraded to windows 7. There are some 8 machines I am stuck with as well. I also do a lot of testing.
I also use server 2012 which has metro as well.

 

[Terpfen]

That's how privilege elevation works. Leave it alone. It's one of the most important security features in Windows.

Running as an administrator on Windows without UAC is akin to 'running as root' in Unix-like OS's. In terms of annoyance it's easier to deal with than the implementation of admin privilege elevation seen in Linux/Mac OS. Privilege elevation is a necessary component of modern OS security that people just need to get used to, if anything I'd actually recommend turning it up to the maximum setting (along with other things like turning on Data Execution Prevention).

UAC is not privilege elevation, and yes, it is far more annoying than anything that pops up in OS X. OS X features actual privilege elevation, appears less often than UAC, and is more secure than UAC due to the user needing to enter an administrator password.

 

[Demon10000]

UAC is privilege elevation.

A user account has two tokens; one with user rights and one with admin rights. When an action is performed that requires admin rights, the system checks the admin token.

UAC is very configurable. By default, it does not prompt for a password if you have an Admin token. However, if you do not, it will prompt you for a username and password.

You can also configure UAC to prompt for a password regardless, instead of just passing your credentials through and allowing an admin to just click yes on the box.

Check out the UAC settings in the local security policies on any windows machine. There are about a dozen policies that allow you to tweak how UAC works.

 

[Disposed]

UAC is not privilege elevation, and yes, it is far more annoying than anything that pops up in OS X. OS X features actual privilege elevation, appears less often than UAC, and is more secure than UAC due to the user needing to enter an administrator password.

It is privilege elevation. What else would you call it? Being more annoying than OSX privilege elevation is nonsense. If you're installing 10 apps on windows and OSX it shows up the same amount unless i have missed something and if it shows up less that makes UAC more secure than OSX elevation not the other way around.

Needing a password does not make it more or less secure.

 

[heatlesssun]

UAC is not privilege elevation

If UAC isn't about privilege escalation then what is it for?

User Account Control (UAC) is a technology and security infrastructure introduced with Microsoft's Windows Vista and Windows Server 2008 operating systems, with a more relaxed[1] version also present in Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2. It aims to improve the security of Microsoft Windows by limiting application software to standard user privileges until an administrator authorizes an increase or elevation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control

, and yes, it is far more annoying than anything that pops up in OS X. OS X features actual privilege elevation, appears less often than UAC, and is more secure than UAC due to the user needing to enter an administrator password.

UAC can be configured to require a password.

 

[Terpfen]

If UAC isn't about privilege escalation then what is it for?

It's a rather toothless warning prompt, specifically the kind of modal prompt that users have been trained by years of meaningless error messages to simply click OK to continue. UAC also prompts far too often for mundane tasks, which further trains users to ignore it.

It was designed to be a "are you sure you want to do this?" prompt that was similar in concept but not a true implementation of actual privilege elevation. The hope was that it would catch errant processes unfamiliar to the user and allow the user to shut them down. It was also hoped to annoy the user. Success.

UAC can be configured to require a password.

"Can be" is the problem. It should prompt for an administrator password by default. That's what privilege elevation is; you temporarily authenticate as a higher-privileged user to do some immediate task before dropping back down into normal user land. Problem with UAC is that it doesn't actually require authentication, unless clicking OK counts as authentication around here.

 

[Demon10000]

That's what privilege elevation is; you temporarily authenticate as a higher-privileged user to do some immediate task before dropping back down into normal user land.

While I disagree with your definition, that is exactly what UAC does. It doesn't just prompt you and let you move on if you click ok. If you click OK, then actually changes the context that your process is executing in. It moves from the user token to the administrator token for permissions.

If you want to see it -- map a drive. Verify that the drive is visible in a command prompt. Now start an elevated command prompt. Look for the drive -- it's gone. This is because the elevated command prompt is running under a different context. It's the same security principal (user account), but the context it's running under is different.

"Can be" is the problem. It should prompt for an administrator password by default.

There is no administrator by default. There doesn't need to be one. The first user on a windows box is now both a user and an administrator. Two very different contexts using the same security principal.

UAC also prompts far too often for mundane tasks, which further trains users to ignore it.

I wouldn't consider any task mundane if it requires Admin privledges. If you're getting prompted too often, you're either running software that doesn't comply with UAC and is asking for Admin rights because it doesn't know any better, or you are legitimately doing something that could impact the machine in a way that an admin should be making decisions.


You can't have it both ways.

 

[ManofGod]

Oh, and I just set all administrative elevation prompts to require a password. Cool, thanks for the heads up.

 

[RadXge]

Just installed Windows 8 Pro yesterday after a booting issue with Windows 7 and I like it so far.
I removed most of the Metro default items (shopping crap really?), created a shortcut for shutting down the PC and happy camper here.

 

[DPI]

Just installed Windows 8 Pro yesterday after a booting issue with Windows 7 and I like it so far.
I removed most of the Metro default items (shopping crap really?), created a shortcut for shutting down the PC and happy camper here.

We all go through this, at first it seems interesting because its something new, but once you begin trying to use the metro apps on your desktop PC you quickly start running into invisible walls of limitations and terrible usability because the interface was designed for phones and tablets. Soon you'll likely realize there's nothing that metro does better than you could already do in windows desktop.

You'll also likely realize many of the metro apps are just watered down versions of what's available on a website or x86 app. Eventually you'll probably want the start menu back, there are a few third party tools if you google. Finally, like many you may realize you don't necessarily dislike Metro, there's just not really anything useful or more productive in that environment for a desktop PC user.

While Microsoft made it impossible to remove Metro itself, you can at least minimize the footprint by uninstalling the metro apps Microsoft doesn't want you to uninstall (or rather, they made it intentionally difficult). There are some powershell commands to do this and clean the metro bloat: http://www.technorms.com/16961/powershell-remove-metro-apps-windows-8

Good luck and enjoy your new system!