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WikiLeaks Founder Arrested

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obs said:
I never claimed they were related. I am saying the US government itself does far, far more to put our troops at risk with no increase in US security than what Assange has done.
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Your claim is irrelevant and a poor attempt to derail then.
One has nothing to do with the other.
 
Q-BZ said:
I'm more interested in his sources than him. I suspect that's where the real end game is here for the intel community and the governments that are going be lining up folks for miles to question him.

You make an excellent point that I feel has been glossed over and I'd say this no matter who was in power: This is an abominable and wretched failure of protecting intel on an even a fairly basic level.

If people really ponder that and the ramifications, I don't know about you all but that renders me speechless and quite sober very quickly.
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Very much agree with you on this. I also an very much of the feeling that these are stolen documents, rather than leaked. Time will tell hopefully.
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Zangmonkey said:
On what?
The reality that these leaks do not soley relate to soldiers in Afghanistan?

You can scroll back through this thread and find leaks from Lebanon pertaining to their actions completely separate from Afghanistan.

I don't understand your point at all.... do you think these leaks are solely about Afghanistan?
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I haven't read through all the leaks, and I'm not sure if you have either. There has been concern that the leaks have given our enemy information that can hurt our efforts in Afghanistan. As of now I'm currently not in a position (of factual knowledge) to say one way or another if this is true. You just made a flat out statement: "The dangers from these leaks are not inherently connected to our military presence in Afghanistan." You seem pretty confident in what you said. I was just asking for sources of information confirming that.
 
Parmenides said:
I haven't read through all the leaks, and I'm not sure if you have either. There has been concern that the leaks have given our enemy information that can hurt our efforts in Afghanistan. As of now I'm currently not in a position (of factual knowledge) to say one way or another if this is true. You just made a flat out statement: "The dangers from these leaks are not inherently connected to our military presence in Afghanistan." You seem pretty confident in what you said. I was just asking for sources of information confirming that.
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I haven't read through all the leaks, and not all of them in his control have been published.
As noted earlier in this thread, there are leaks about what global resources are viewed as critical to national security. There is another leak about The Lebanese working with the Israelis. Assonge purports others about US banking and commerce.

I don't have links, but some simple googling may do.

Nonetheless, these are examples unrelated to Afghanistan.
 
Zangmonkey said:
Or you can acknowledge that we live in a global community and that we rely on other countries for goods and services vital to our, their and other countries' well-being.

It *is* possible to help Iraqis and defend our own interests at the same time.
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I disagree because there is no ultimate arbiter of what is truly in the other country's best interests. I might think that removing Ahmadinejad from power in Iran or Chavez in Venezuela is actually helping those countries long term and helping my country procure goods and services. Others disagree.
 
kirbyrj said:
I disagree because there is no ultimate arbiter of what is truly in the other country's best interests. I might think that removing Ahmadinejad from power in Iran or Chavez in Venezuela is actually helping those countries long term and helping my country procure goods and services. Others disagree.
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Actions are, will be, and must be taken despite the fact that "others disagree"

I'm sure some people disagreed that we should help stop Nazi genocide too.
 
Zangmonkey said:
Actions are, will be, and must be taken despite the fact that "others disagree"

I'm sure some people disagreed that we should help stop Nazi genocide too.
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So all our troops in Afghanistan are there to prevent genocide?
 
Oeleo said:
1) You don't tell your wife she is fat, even if she is.
2) You don't tell your kids they are dumb, even if they are.
3) You don't tell your friends every bit of truth about them if you want to keep them as friends.
4) You don't tell your job you are on [H] during the day.
5) You don't tell your job you are going to quit before finding another job.

Those are just off the top of my head answers, but there are definitely deeper situations where this applies even more so.
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Just because it's better for YOU if you don't tell the truth doesn't mean it's better for everyone.
 
Spewn said:
Just because it's better for YOU if you don't tell the truth doesn't mean it's better for everyone.
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Get back to me when you stop making any decisions based on the fact they are better for you. :p
 
Breaking news: Douche wikipedia guy goes to jail, hit the court today, and the judge denied him any bail.

Back to jail he goes :D
 
Oeleo said:
Get back to me when you stop making any decisions based on the fact they are better for you. :p
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What's best for the government isn't necessarily what's best for people the government claims to represent.
 
obs said:
What's best for the government isn't necessarily what's best for people the government claims to represent.
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Sometimes (but not all the time) the government knows better than the people... An example is desegregation of the South in the 1960's. The Southern people did not want it, but it was the right thing to do.
 
Oh and another point... no matter how much your wife/girlfriend has brain-washed you:

withholding truth =/= lying

That's like saying pleading the 5th equals perjury.
 
Oeleo said:
Sometimes (but not all the time) the government knows better than the people... An example is desegregation of the South in the 1960's. The Southern people did not want it, but it was the right thing to do.
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And how exactly do you know this?
 
obs said:
And how exactly do you know this?
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How do I know the majority of Southern people did not want desegregation in the 1960's? How about the National Guard having to be called in to enforce it... you know that always happens when there is overwhelming support. :rolleyes:
 
Cyraxx said:
Being able to see into the future from every single possibility. DUHHHH don't you know this :rolleyes:
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Unfortunately we don't have save points in history where we can reload events to see what happens. However, segregation should have never been implemented in the first place, so its removal was always the right thing to do.
 
Oeleo said:
How do I know the majority of Southern people did not want desegregation in the 1960's? How about the National Guard having to be called in to enforce it... you know that always happens when there is overwhelming support. :rolleyes:
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NotSureifSerious.jpg

Are you saying the fact that the majority wanted desegregation that it was the best possible move? I'm assuming that last sentence that basically says "the majority is always right" was sarcasm, which doesn't exactly go with your first statement...
 
Oeleo,

What you just said about segregation is partly true, but that was a transparent process. Some back room political maneuvers had to be done (im sure of that) but the majority of the country did agree that it was time to end it. So the People wanted it, just not all the people, i mean you still will run into racism, that is undeniable.

What about the bill of rights? Maranda rights? Even fire safety on fire escapes. People wanted all of those, the govt just made them happen.

Im with Turd and obs, Spewn and a few others on this. Who determines what is secret in the government and who says that they are right about it? Was the Abu Ghraib a secret? Did it deserve to be leaked? (obviously that happened before, but it is a good example)

Let me put it another way also, if any supporter of these secrets (posting here) was is Abu Ghraib type place as an inmate and his mother and father saw that picture of his being pranked on that way, i am sure that they would be out for blood of that female solder in the picture.

Did Wikileaks exercise poor judgment, absolutely! Did the US govt, absolutely also, doubly so!

Some useful leaks: 1) China wanting to pull support from North Korea and put it under South Koreas rule. 2) Every country around Iran asking US to take action again Irans nuclear facilities

As obs said, this government (during the Bush era) has put more US soldiers and civilians in harms way then any of these leaks.

My bottom line
------------------------------------------
Why do we trust the government to keep secrets? Of course they will not want to embarrass themselves, but through shame you can convince them to change. Think of the government as an alcoholic drunk on power. Where is it's great responsibility if it doesn't tell the people, what it is up to? Its a circular argument. The government is doing what is best for us, but it wont tell us what it's doing. And to be clear, the brightest minds aren't in the government, they are at Google, Microsoft, Apple Wall street etc...
 
Cyraxx said:
NotSureifSerious.jpg

Are you saying the fact that the majority wanted desegregation that it was the best possible move? I'm assuming that last sentence that basically says "the majority is always right" was sarcasm, which doesn't exactly go with your first statement...
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He's saying you can't claim it was the best possible move if you only know 1 result.
 
Apparently, they've released a deadman's switch in the form of a 1.4gb encrypted file that is supposed to contain a metric shit-ton of secret documents.
 
This is the beginning of the end. World war 3 ;). I think the leaks are necessary. Too many people letting the government live behind the scenes and disconnect with the people. Even if people are at risk theres always going to be risks when exposing things. Government lies so much. If they didn't lie so much then people wouldn't even be questioning their answers. Pretty sure a war is going to start eventually. We are all going to die from the radio active fall out(Cancer, free radicals). We are on the brink right now. Close to 2012 also ;). Nothing has really been targeted from the leaks. This is like forbidden archaeology, area51 stuff. Government use to be one with the people. Now its like another world isolated from society while they control everything we go through not knowing what its like because they live a life of luxury with private jets and the like. Think about the big picture.
 
obs said:
I never claimed they were related. I am saying the US government itself does far, far more to put our troops at risk with no increase in US security than what Assange has done.
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So if by attacking the Taliban in Afghanistan means the US put soldiers in danger, then nothing else matters? Anything anyone else does to put them in further harm is ok? You're ok if I just nuke the place, right now since really the US govt. are the ones who put them in harms way. Nobody else can now. Nobody else is responsible if they die. Everyone, feel free to go on a ******* rampage in Afghanistan now.

****ing internet people. Every time I look around and think I'm surrounded by idiots, you come along and prove I'm surrounded by geniuses!

"no increase in US security" Because you..... are an internet expert my friend.

"In just two hours of searching the WikiLeaks archive, The Times of London found the names of dozens of Afghans credited with providing detailed intelligence to U.S. forces. Their villages are given for identification and also, in many cases, their fathers' names."

"Zabihullah Mujahid, a Taliban spokesman, said they were studying and investigating the report, adding “If they are US spies, then we know how to punish them.”"

dailytech.com/Taliban+Murders+Afghan+Elder+Thanks+Wikileaks+for+Revealing+Spies/article19250.htm Tribal elders getting death threats after the leak, or assassinated.
 
Cyraxx said:
NotSureifSerious.jpg

Are you saying the fact that the majority wanted desegregation that it was the best possible move? I'm assuming that last sentence that basically says "the majority is always right" was sarcasm, which doesn't exactly go with your first statement...
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I'm not sure if we are understanding each other. :) I used the whole desegregation analogy to prove that sometimes the government is right even when the people (in this case Southerners in the 1960's) are wrong. Basically someone in this thread was trying to say that the will of the people always trumps the government which I believe is incorrect because otherwise we would have mob rule.
 
bh192012 said:
Everyone, feel free to go on a ******* rampage in Afghanistan now.

****ing internet people. Every time I look around and think I'm surrounded by idiots, you come along and prove I'm surrounded by geniuses!
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I just have to ask: are you censoring yourself there or something, 'cause you can say fucking rampage and fucking internet people around these parts, you know.

The [H] is quite tolerant of most any fucking thing that comes along... ;)
 
Yep, confirmed idiot, just like I said..... he has turned himself in, which was a stupid mistake if you asked me. I was right

No bail for him at all, bail denied (and he had over $50,000 in bail donations LOL!)....

He's gonna be in jail a week.... til the 14th. Looooooooooooser idiot!
 
Yossarian22 said:
So where do I go to donate for his defense and bail fund?
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1. Too late, he's denied bail and is in the slammer for a week! hahaha

2. Your petty donation wouldn't help much anyways... CNN claims he has 2 donating rich guys throwing in $25,000+ each just for his bail.... but bail denied anyways! :D
 
Which is just further proof all this is a set-up to get him into custody in the long run. He did the right thing, for the moment - if he'd remained out and about things would just get much worse for him, and he'd be wide open for anyone willing to take potshots in his general direction.

Dylan80 said:
Yep, confirmed idiot, just like I said.....
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Idiot? Not hardly. He's got people willing to front $50K or more for him, probably folks that never met him before. Would anyone do that for you? Hardly.

He's actually better off at this moment than he was prior to being out and about, and probably a lot safer.
 
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