WikiLeaks Founder Arrested

[Mathemabeat]

Its pretty obvious the rape charges are horse shit and just a way to get him into custody. Consensual yet still rape? lol .

The US gov can mouth off all they like, however its doesn't appear that he has broke any actual laws. At least none of ours. Since he isn't a US citizen and doesn't reside on a US territory, those laws, such as the Espionage Act do NOT apply. However Bradley Manning is pretty much fucked. I would be surprised if he isn't found guilty of treason and executed.

 

[crackbone]

Could someone point to a dangerous leak, please? I've been reading for days and I just find it boring and only mildly informative.

I don't think there really is one.

What I do think is occurring is the attempt to discredit and label this guy so that when the shit really does hit the fan, ie, Guantanamo info, etc, gets released, they can point to Assange and label him a "Extortionist, Terrorist, Rapist," etc.

 

[Dylan80]

It's going to be fun when we get visited by a supernatural event soon.... then all the earth and its countries will be turned into one global friend zone.

We should all be working together, developing new ways to do new things-- not harming each other and wasting valuable time talking about some douche bag idiot who leaks secret data he got illegally so he can feel somewhat useful in the world.

The world can do without wikileaks, nobody truly cares that much about this hidden secret shit besides people whom want to harm the USA since it's superior and more advanced then most other countries on Earth. A lot of people SUBCONSCIOUSLY don't realize they like wikileaks because they get to learn dirty little things about someone more successful then themselves (much like women like to read and talk about Britney Spears, or Lohan)

 

[Zangmonkey]

I like the glib dismissal of analysis based on its site being a "blog". Very cute.



No, he's a Minister of Defense for Lebanon. Next time, read more than three disjointed words. If you know anything about Lebanon, you would know now that this guy's life isn't worth a penny.

I know a great deal about Lebanon given that I spent a lot of time there and have family there which is constantly at risk from Hezbollah, fanatics and would be in great danger at the onset of another civil war.

Are their politicians polished and up-front? Absolutely not, just like *every politician on the planet* but deliberately and selectively publicizing information which could literally mean deaths of many people is not journalism, it's malicious.
They killed Hariri, you think they'll hesitate to kill anybody else in a country with no consequences and a fledgling government too weak to fight the militias?
Do you think that if he had leaked Hezbollah's internal communications they would be more benevolent?

 

[crackbone]

It's going to be fun when we get visited by a supernatural event soon.... then all the earth and its countries will be turned into one global friend zone.

We should all be working together, developing new ways to do new things-- not harming each other and wasting valuable time talking about some douche bag idiot who leaks secret data he got illegally so he can feel somewhat useful in the world.

The world can do without wikileaks, nobody truly cares that much about this hidden secret shit besides people whom want to harm the USA since it's superior and more advanced then most other countries on Earth. A lot of people SUBCONSCIOUSLY don't realize they like wikileaks because they get to learn dirty little things about someone more successful then themselves (much like women like to read and talk about Britney Spears, or Lohan)

Honestly, I'd like to know much the info that Wikileaks has but hasn't released yet, not because I am jealous, but because I want to know what types of bullshit have gone on over the last decade or more in the name of the "Homeland."

It has nothing to do with harming the "USA" but more about really finding out what crap the political establishment and the military economic complex in this country has been REALLY up to.

The truth is, there's an America that we all want to believe(at least us in the USA) exists, and the one that does.

It's nowhere near the same.

 

[Dylan80]

Its pretty obvious the rape charges are horse shit and just a way to get him into custody. Consensual yet still rape? lol .

The US gov can mouth off all they like, however its doesn't appear that he has broke any actual laws. At least none of ours. Since he isn't a US citizen and doesn't reside on a US territory, those laws, such as the Espionage Act do NOT apply. However Bradley Manning is pretty much fucked. I would be surprised if he isn't found guilty of treason and executed.

If he didn't do anything wrong....
A) Why has he been running? For the leaked data? Then why did he just turn himself in for a petty rape charge that he claims never happened?

That leads to B)
B) Why did he turn himself in all of a sudden?

If you are wanted by MULTIPLE countries for leaking data.... and run and never turn yourself in for that. Then why would you turn yourself in for one country on a $800 fine/"rape" charge????

Nobody set this up, so its not obvious like you say.... the guy is either an idiot, or is doing this all for attention. THAT is the 2 obvious options here.

 

[Zangmonkey]

And there are others who think that the US Government can do no wrong, that has the right to do whatever they please in the name of so called "national security" and can generally create destabilization around the world in the name of "democracy."

Both ideals are total fucking bullshit.

I challenge you to find one person in this thread (or even in Soapbox) who thinks that the "US Government can do no wrong"...

If anybody is the jingoist here it's you, supporting dangerous and malicious actions based on a stereotype you have conjured and supported by your disdain for people who disagree with you.

 

[CaptNumbNutz]

I foresee this thread is going to get locked quickly simply because 90% of the population here thinks they are Mr. "Expert Analysis" John Doe Pundit who cannot hold a civil discussion. The fact that it has gone on this long is testament to the Moderators and Kyle Bennett keeping a cool head. Normally these political discussions are limited to the Soapbox sub-section of the paid access sub-forum General Mayhem located on the hardforums.com board.

The Soapbox is by no means a civil place, but atleast the $5 asshole filter keeps out the more ignorant of this forum, which is proven by their inability to read their control panel to see the off topic forum in the first place. I suggest if you like discussing issues like this to pay the small subscription fee and join the many wikileaks discussion threads going on in the Soapbox sub-section of General Mayhem.

 

[Youn]

We should all be working together, developing new ways to do new things--

But many people are insecure in their own worth to do anything in this world besides promote hate, fear, and war. We need to help these people realize they can do good, perhaps by re-parenting.

Name calling will only make their behavior worse IMO

 

[Team Obi Juan]

I foresee this thread is going to get locked quickly simply because 90% of the population here thinks they are Mr. "Expert Analysis" John Doe Pundit who cannot hold a civil discussion. The fact that it has gone on this long is testament to the Moderators and Kyle Bennett keeping a cool head. Normally these political discussions are limited to the Soapbox sub-section of the paid access sub-forum General Mayhem located on the hardforums.com board.

The Soapbox is by no means a civil place, but atleast the $5 asshole filter keeps out the more ignorant of this forum, which is proven by their inability to read their control panel to see the off topic forum in the first place. I suggest if you like discussing issues like this to pay the small subscription fee and join the many wikileaks discussion threads going on in the Soapbox sub-section of General Mayhem.

Good fucking God.

 

[Zangmonkey]

@crackbone, I can't edit my post, missed your last line. Sorry characterizing "you" instead of the position.

 

[crackbone]

I challenge you to find one person in this thread (or even in Soapbox) who thinks that the "US Government can do no wrong"...

If anybody is the jingoist here it's you, supporting dangerous and malicious actions based on a stereotype you have conjured and supported by your disdain for people who disagree with you.

I'd like for you to give me a direct, verifiable example, that the release of the information so far has been dangerous or malicious.

 

[thee_rook]

I know you guys love to hate and hate to love and love to love and hate to hate and whatever, but think about who benefits from all of this crap. 2 sides only.

The first side being Assange and his minion. They are extortionists, but alas as NOT being a US citizen it is hard to convict of treason.

The second side would be the idiots who want full blown censorship of the interwebs. As owners of a website and internet gathering place that may not always post agreeance with the Gov't, I would choose your judgemnt carefully. This makes a really strong case for the Gov't to control what can and cannot be hosted on the internet. Up until a week or 2 ago Wikileaks resided on American soil. Do you think Assnage moved it for fear of hacking? Are you really that ignorant to the larger pisture? He moved it so when Big Brother does swoop in and pass the internet bill they have just brought back to life, they cannot touch his domain. I hope that one day [H]ard|OCP does not get taken offline for some of the comments made in forums that Kyle or Steve have no control over really.

It is on the second instance alone that I will stand in support of Wikileaks. He may be arrogant and he may have posted documents that jeopardize people, but then again he didn't make the documents up, he didn't steal them himself, and made public documents that could have easily fallen off a gov't transfer truck for all we know. He would not be pushing this so hard if he could easily have more. He must have played his hand out for now and needs to ride until the next big "release". Welcome to the real world. It is a big boys sandbox out here and if you cannot handle that STFU, go inside, and out back on the tinfoil hat.

A few quotes to ponder:

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.
Thomas Jefferson

And whether you're an honest man, or whether you're a thief, depends on whose solicitor has given me my brief.
Benjamin Franklin

No such thing as a man willing to be honest - that would be like a blind man willing to see.
F. Scott Fitzgerald

Mmm if anything wanting him to shut up is more left wing brolociraptor. Limited government "of the people" is the right side. Blind eye "OMG HERE HAVE MY RIGHTS IN ORDER TO PROTECT ME" is the left side

PATRIOT ACT. Read you history. This is the one most damaging thing to personal rights known to our history. Who inacted it?

 

[crackbone]

@crackbone, I can't edit my post, missed your last line. Sorry characterizing "you" instead of the position.

No problem, I know, I wish we'd edit abilities in the News threads. I've made more than enough errors myself over the years posting here.

 

[TheCommander]

No offense, but Kyle sounds like one of those r-tarted Republicans on Fox News that keep saying they want him to be executed for being a ''cyber terrorist''.

A real democracy is keeping the government open to the people and having access to information our elected representatives do or aren't doing, if we're being raped from behind by multiple foreign banks where in which the U.S. Government has been sending loads of cash to as opposed to the American people. We have to the right to know about that.

The US was never a democracy. It's more of a democratic republic or constitutional republic.

 

[Stiletto]

I know a great deal about Lebanon given that I spent a lot of time there and have family there which is constantly at risk from Hezbollah, fanatics and would be in great danger at the onset of another civil war.

Yeah, yeah, and I was born there and raised until the age of 13 until my parents moved to Turkey. You realize those claims on the internet are largely meaningless, right?

Are their politicians polished and up-front? Absolutely not, just like *every politician on the planet* but deliberately and selectively publicizing information which could literally mean deaths of many people is not journalism, it's malicious.

Um...if you're talking about Wikileaks, I agree.

They killed Hariri, you think they'll hesitate to kill anybody else in a country with no consequences and a fledgling government too weak to fight the militias?
Do you think that if he had leaked Hezbollah's internal communications they would be more benevolent?

I'm confused as to what you're arguing with here. I am against the leaking of these documents.

 

[VRMan]

So do you guys think it is worse that he published the documents for the world to see, or if he had just sold the documents to the highest bidder?

 

[Stiletto]

I know you guys love to hate and hate to love and love to love and hate to hate and whatever, but think about who benefits from all of this crap. 2 sides only.

The first side being Assange and his minion. They are extortionists, but alas as NOT being a US citizen it is hard to convict of treason.

But it is easy to convict him of espionage. Bradley Manning will, hopefully, be the one to be tried for treason.

 

[Derangel]

It's going to be fun when we get visited by a supernatural event soon.... then all the earth and its countries will be turned into one global friend zone.

We should all be working together, developing new ways to do new things-- not harming each other and wasting valuable time talking about some douche bag idiot who leaks secret data he got illegally so he can feel somewhat useful in the world.

The world can do without wikileaks, nobody truly cares that much about this hidden secret shit besides people whom want to harm the USA since it's superior and more advanced then most other countries on Earth. A lot of people SUBCONSCIOUSLY don't realize they like wikileaks because they get to learn dirty little things about someone more successful then themselves (much like women like to read and talk about Britney Spears, or Lohan)

Its a nice idea, but its simply not possible. Humans don't get along. Whether its religion, politics, skin color, or simply because someone looked at us wrong we look for any reason to fight and bicker. I doubt that peace among everyone will ever be possible, not matter what happens. Even if some event happened that required humanity to band together most people would rather die then shake hands with those they perceive as the enemy. Humanity would die out before we could ever perfectly work together.

 

[TheCommander]

Could someone point to a dangerous leak, please? I've been reading for days and I just find it boring and only mildly informative.

I don't think there are many or any at all. Why would anyone be surprised by the leaks anyway. Everyone knows that politicians and governments are corrupt.

 

[phide]

Good fucking God.

I hope he gets paid for that sales pitch.

 

[Q-BZ]

A few quotes to ponder:

Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.
Thomas Jefferson

And whether you're an honest man, or whether you're a thief, depends on whose solicitor has given me my brief.
Benjamin Franklin

No such thing as a man willing to be honest - that would be like a blind man willing to see.
F. Scott Fitzgerald



PATRIOT ACT. Read you history. This is the one most damaging thing to personal rights known to our history. Who inacted it?

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. The Patriot Act in its present form is an absolute abomination.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing ignorant people blame one party when there's TONS of blame to go around and it goes back decades.

 

[Zangmonkey]

Yeah, yeah, and I was born there and raised until the age of 13 until my parents moved to Turkey. You realize those claims on the internet are largely meaningless, right?

Yeah, and even if they were verifiable they'd be specious at best... Doesn't stop people (me) from spouting them as if they were relevant instinctively

Um...if you're talking about Wikileaks, I agree.



I'm confused as to what you're arguing with here. I am against the leaking of these documents.

Not really arguing with you, but my response was more a follow up on what you said. Had I quoted the person you quoted then there'd be no context for other readers.

 

[Stiletto]

I foresee this thread is going to get locked quickly simply because 90% of the population here thinks they are Mr. "Expert Analysis" John Doe Pundit who cannot hold a civil discussion. The fact that it has gone on this long is testament to the Moderators and Kyle Bennett keeping a cool head. Normally these political discussions are limited to the Soapbox sub-section of the paid access sub-forum General Mayhem located on the hardforums.com board.

The Soapbox is by no means a civil place, but atleast the $5 asshole filter keeps out the more ignorant of this forum, which is proven by their inability to read their control panel to see the off topic forum in the first place. I suggest if you like discussing issues like this to pay the small subscription fee and join the many wikileaks discussion threads going on in the Soapbox sub-section of General Mayhem.

No, um, actually I'd say the $5 charge is a filter for people who can't afford to pay to comment on an anonymous internet message board. But I'm sure HardForum appreciates your volunteering of your tongue as their personal toilet paper.

 

[crackbone]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. The Patriot Act in its present form is an absolute abomination.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing ignorant people blame one party when there's TONS of blame to go around and it goes back decades.

^^^

Precisely.

 

[Bahamut]

When was the last time an international warrant was issued, by INTERPOL no less, for rape? Ever? Hmmm... odd with that timing given the current situation, I'd say.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[Stiletto]

Yeah, and even if they were verifiable they'd be specious at best... Doesn't stop people (me) from spouting them as if they were relevant instinctively

In which case, I am Julian Assange's brother, and I've always known he was a rapist.

 

[crackbone]

When was the last time an international warrant was issued, by INTERPOL no less, for rape? Ever? Hmmm... odd with that timing given the current situation, I'd say.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Rarely if @ all.

 

[AthlonXP]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. The Patriot Act in its present form is an absolute abomination.

I'm so sick and tired of seeing ignorant people blame one party when there's TONS of blame to go around and it goes back decades.

Exactly!! This is why i hate politicians.

 

[Bahamut]

And the warrant wasn't even for rape but just saying "rape" attached to this whole fiasco is enough to really set the shit in motion:

http://slatest.slate.com/id/2276690/

Gotta love good old media and press, eh?

 

[crackbone]

I don't think there are many or any at all. Why would anyone be surprised by the leaks anyway. Everyone knows that politicians and governments are corrupt.

We all know they lie and that there's corruption.

It's the severity of the lie(s) and the corruption that's in play here.

 

[Q-BZ]

When was the last time an international warrant was issued, by INTERPOL no less, for rape? Ever? Hmmm... odd with that timing given the current situation, I'd say.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

It's clearly bullshit. I have no sympathy for this guy on a number of levels but I really did LOL when I saw that rubbish.


Someone made the point earlier: Back in the Cold War days someone like this uh..."got disappeared" pretty damned quick and with little to no fanfare.

I'm frankly amazed this has been allowed...that's the key word...to go on for as long as it has and that he's still alive and in relatively good health, at least for now.


A number of things I'd like to know and not the least of which is: How this Private Manning supposedly got access to a bunch of "high level" information in the first place?

You don't have to know squat about the military to know that if you're private you're basically a step up from dog meat on the food chain.

 

[ShadowStriker]

When was the last time an international warrant was issued, by INTERPOL no less, for rape? Ever? Hmmm... odd with that timing given the current situation, I'd say.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Where? Red notices are not warrants...

And guess what with all the redacts everyone's going to be at risk because ++++++++++++ could be you!

 

[RumpleForeSkin]

I don't think there really is one.

What I do think is occurring is the attempt to discredit and label this guy so that when the shit really does hit the fan, ie, Guantanamo info, etc, gets released, they can point to Assange and label him a "Extortionist, Terrorist, Rapist," etc.

DING DING DING DING DING
We have a winner!.. give that man a Kewpie doll.

At this point, I'd welcome secession. I'm tired of rednecks trotting the world and doing fucked up things in the name of MY country or the promise of a supposed democracy, arming the Afgani warlords in the '80's (funny, aren't we fighting some Afgani warlords?) , arming BOTH sides of the Iran-Iraq war (wait, where have I heard about Iraq and Iran in the news lately.. not important, I'll think about that when it's more convenient), the School of the Americas at Ft. Benning (hmm.. a flood of illegal immigrants from central america.. wonder why they'd want to leave their tropical paradise) , just to name a few.
Let them have their own country, we can build a fence and then bitch that they're completely ruining the new "Amurrica" when they cross illegally, I hear that works like a charm..

 

[Xyvotha]

My apologies for posting in this thread.
[H] is a great technical site, not a place to discuss this kind of stuff. That's my opinion.

...and thanks Steve for deleting your previous post and my reply, I take that too as an apology

 

[eggrock]

Blaming Assange/Wikileaks shortsighted and stupid. Wikileaks is simply an outlet for information and not the source itself. Where's the outrage against the New York Times? They run their info by the government and redact some of it but the information released is still damaging (or embarrassing at minimum) to the U.S.

If the U.S. government wants to protect sensitive information they'd better damn well protect it. The scope of the information released to date (not just the latest round of 'cables') is very broad and demonstrates a serious lack of control over data.

But.. Let's shoot the messenger.

 

[Bahamut]

I'm at risk because I'm alive and an American, that's more than enough regardless of whatever "leaks" have occurred. Nothing to do with me, my beliefs, the money in my pockets or bank account, my opinions - just the fact that I was born here in this country is enough to put me at the top of dozens of "Most Wanted" lists from stupid fucking people that will destroy our world much faster than someone leaking out some info.

By miles.

 

[Zangmonkey]

A number of things I'd like to know and not the least of which is: How this Private Manning supposedly got access to a bunch of "high level" information in the first place?

You don't have to know squat about the military to know that if you're private you're basically a step up from dog meat on the food chain.

Things are not as secure as they'd like people to believe.
Remember Sandy Berger trying ti make away with government documents hidden in his socks?

 

[crackbone]

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/homeland-security-messages-coming-walmart-hotels-malls/

In an America where this shit is going on, I find it hard to believe that people are calling for the death and discomfort of someone leaking info.

 

[Q-BZ]

Blaming Assange/Wikileaks shortsighted and stupid. Wikileaks is simply an outlet for information and not the source itself. Where's the outrage against the New York Times? They run their info by the government and redact some of it but the information released is still damaging (or embarrassing at minimum) to the U.S.

If the U.S. government wants to protect sensitive information they'd better damn well protect it. The scope of the information released to date (not just the latest round of 'cables') is very broad and demonstrates a serious lack of control over data.

But.. Let's shoot the messenger.

I'm more interested in his sources than him. I suspect that's where the real end game is here for the intel community and the governments that are going be lining up folks for miles to question him.

You make an excellent point that I feel has been glossed over and I'd say this no matter who was in power: This is an abominable and wretched failure of protecting intel on an even a fairly basic level.

If people really ponder that and the ramifications, I don't know about you all but that renders me speechless and quite sober very quickly.