Why Linux on the Desktop Is Dead

Daggah

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I can agree with that assessment. Every time I've installed some flavor of Linux, I've gotten frustrated with getting simple things to work the way I'd expect on a Windows box, and given up relatively quickly.

When I say simple things, I mean things like Divx/MKV video playback. Is it hard to get it working? No, of course not. Does it work out of the box? No. Is it as simple as it is under Windows? Hell no.

Of course, I happen to think the way OSX does application installation (outside of the app store) is a bit ass-backwards too.
 
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Of course, I happen to think the way OSX does application installation (outside of the app store) is a bit ass-backwards too.

Drag container onto the hard drive and run? And when done, just drag container to the trash? IMHO, OS X handles program installation/uninstallation way better than Windows or most Linuxes
 

FndTheRver

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Here's what I think of this article using an analogy.....


An 85 year old granny driving a lamborghini who's complaining about how hard it is to drive.


Other people said this is in the thread before me, linux is obviously not for noobs. And that's okay. Not every OS is meant for every user base.
 

nOrVow

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Other people said this is in the thread before me, linux is obviously not for noobs. And that's okay. Not every OS is meant for every user base.

My fucking goodness... why do people keep perpetuating this bullshit? :rolleyes:

There's plenty of distros that are heavily gui based to get new users feet wet. You don't NEED the CLI, it's just there. FFS
 

Diriel

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+1 to what Zarathustra[H] said for sure!

That said, the new 1.4, Playonlinux, and Winetricks and some TIME put in initially and Gaming in Linux is actually getting to be not to terrible!

Gary
 
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I think running an installation program is more intuitive honestly.

how so? when you run an installer, you have no idea what it is changing in your system, and every program can use different install programs... its wildly inconsistent.....

granted, there are some installers on mac too, but for the most part, copying a container to your local HD, and removing it when you are done beats the pants off running a mystery program and hoping it does everything correct.....

really, Mac OS has installing and removing software spot on, its simply the way it should work... why should running a program require running another program first?
 

Red Falcon

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granted, there are some installers on mac too, but for the most part, copying a container to your local HD, and removing it when you are done beats the pants off running a mystery program and hoping it does everything correct.....
You can also do this within Linux as well.
 

Daggah

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how so? when you run an installer, you have no idea what it is changing in your system, and every program can use different install programs... its wildly inconsistent.....

granted, there are some installers on mac too, but for the most part, copying a container to your local HD, and removing it when you are done beats the pants off running a mystery program and hoping it does everything correct.....

really, Mac OS has installing and removing software spot on, its simply the way it should work... why should running a program require running another program first?

With an installer, you don't have to know where programs have to be copied to be installed. Do you really think the average user cares what an installer is doing? And when is the last time you've seen the installer for commercially available mainstream software fail to install a program correctly? All you do is run the file after you downloaded it (with modern browsers, you don't even have to know where the browser put it) and click Next a few times.
 

Cyrilix

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No offense to Linux users, but I feel the problem with some of them, is that they're evangelical. As such, their actions have spurred opposing evangelism on the Windows side (fight fire with fire, etc.). Windows XP (in my honest opinion), was a terrible OS, but we lived with it despite all of its gripes and lack of stability. Windows 7 pretty much fixed all of the little problems. The only things left are design problems.

A lot of people on that article mention "learning the Linux way" when they fully realize that spending 30 days with an OS does not mean learning a new way. It simply means, taking the existing mindset, and making shit work, no matter what the way. Making Linux work with Windows use cases is a perfectly valid form of experimentation.

Anyhow, just saying, don't get too worked up over the article. The author clearly has an issue with the operating system, or getting things to work the way he wants them to. If you truly care about making Linux better, help the author, don't flame him for his negativity. You solve problems in the world by making your products so good that any reasonable way for someone to blame you has been eliminated, not by blaming someone back. Unlike non-free OSes, which must be sold for money and bring revenue (directly or indirectly) and have deadlines, you have the luxury of *doing things right* with Linux, so go and do it and make everything perfect! When that happens, reasonable Windows users will literally be worshipping you.
 

NKDietrich

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90% of what the average luser does is within a web browser and is largely platform agnostic anyway.
 

ianken

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Ah, yes, the other reason why Linux on the desktop will never catch on - their unbearable users.

Indeed.

"To its credit, Linux has a phenomenal support system, and loyal, knowledgeable users willing to help guide you through the murky waters. Of course, it’s often difficult to find them through the sea of self-righteous flamers who berate you for not knowing what you’re doing."

THIS is why I didn't bother. Many many years ago I gave it a whirl. The community is dominated by the noted self-righteous ass-hats who dislocate their shoulders patting themselves on the back over how clever they are compared to the newbs.

Tweaking text files to get things working right made me flash back to the fucking '80s. Documents in "man pages?" Oh, nice. That was years ago. Maybe it's better now.

It seems the answer to even the simplest thing is "write a script."

But I don't give a fuck. I run Win7 x64. It runs the apps I use. Linux does not and I'm not interested in flaky ass API shims like wine. Development tools? Jesus, it felt like riding a time machine to ten years into the past.

On iOS "there's an app for that." Not so much on Linux. There's this text file. Then you get perl or python, and run this script, you see. And then take this other text file and feed it into this command line tool that generates a CSV....blah blah blah....it never fucking ends.

Servers? Will rock Linux 24/7. Desktop? GTFO.
 

cold&damp

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As a Linux fan myself, I can certainly agree with the article. Though he makes some points I can't stand behind. Syncing your iPod and iPhone? Using Office instead of Libre? The open source community does have alternatives, but the real problem is WINE.

No matter what I do, WINE just doesn't work as well as it should. Though I hear 1.4 will bring massive changes, but I doubt it's as plug and play as it should be.

WINE is up to version 1.5.
 

cold&damp

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There is little, if any reason to use Linux on a desktop PC, as it offers nothing over Windows. In addition to not offering any features over Windows, it is sorely lacking in two key areas (video games and software development).

Everything on modern Linux distros can be summed up as "us too!"
Windows introduces a major new feature; most Linux distros have a clone of it in a few months.
Mac OS introduces new graphical niceities; most Linux distros have a clone of it in a few months.

They offer nothing new or better. It's just a clone that has boatloads of compatibility problems, and a lot of tweaking/workarounds if you have any remotely recent hardware. I am far from being a conformist, but the only OS that really does "just work" for the 99% is Windows and, to a lesser extent, Mac OS.

Tiling Window Managers.
 

cold&damp

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Well if one user using one OS is the way to judge that an entire family of Operating Systems is dead, then I have to say from my personal testing that iOS on phones is dead, as well as MACOSX on the Desktop/Laptop is dead.
 

daglesj

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I try linux every now and then. However, the issue I have every time I get stuck is the same.

I find an issue and I go looking for the solution. When I find articles on the solution all of them are written as though the first two pages of it have been torn out. You are expected to know how the command line works, how to handle tar.gz archives etc. etc. so straight away there is a barrier to okay lets use the term 'noobs'. A lot of linux articles are written with many assumptions already being made to the level of user experience.

So you then go to a linux forum and politely ask the question "Please can you tell me how I..."

Oh boy you may as well have thrown yourself to the wolves. You can just hear a worldwide collective eye roll and 'tsk' before angry fingers hit the keyboards and literally tear you a new one for daring to ask.

I remember being told by one helpful linux user "Oh so you expect all these people to take the time to help you??!!"

Well no, but I guess you hot a little help when you started? I just need a few pointers to get me started.

The Linux community is unfortunately it's own worst enemy. I find it very unforgiving to people that are new and want to learn more. Lack of empathy or social skills I don't know which but it really put you off trying to get to grips with it.

Yeah you can find same kinds of people in the Windows world but if you are looking for "How to" articles for Windows there are many and most start with "Click on the Start Button".

Totally different way of doing things. One works and one doesnt. The Linux community needs to calm down and be far more inclusive to people wanting to try. If people are wanting to try you should at least respect them for that and not just punch them in the face for trying to join your exclusive club.
 
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Cost aside, what are the reasons to use Linux or Windows/Mac?

The general public want a system where they don't have to think and go against the grain of everyday computing activities. This is where Windows and Mac excel because they offer a simplistic approach to computing. They don't care how things work just as long as they work.

Supercomputers (as pointed out earlier in this thread) use a heavily modified linux kernal to only include functions that meet their computational needs.

At this point in the game, Linux will never be a mainstream desktop operating system.
 

Ryokurin

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Other people said this is in the thread before me, linux is obviously not for noobs. And that's okay. Not every OS is meant for every user base.

Then in that case, the 'pros' who keep promoting it should stay in their lane and stop saying that every year is the year for Linux on the desktop. No one cares that your grandmother has used linux exclusively for the past two years because all she does is surf the web and send email. the computer is a utility, and just about anything can do that now. There's plenty of people who can be served by that, and this is why tablets are popular.

The point is, the real 'desktop' is interactive. That is people installing/uninstalling applications, hardware, drivers, peripherals, etc and a lot of those things sometimes require more than what the average user is used to. Those people tend to stick with Windows and MacOS.
 

Emission

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I honestly don't understand why people beat on it so much considering that most linux distributions are FOSS. You don't like it? Pay for Windows, or better yet, take out a loan for an OS X machine ;).

Using Linux as a replacement for Windows takes more effort than it’s worth, and in the end I was still left with a poor substitute lacking tools I rely on like Microsoft Office, or native syncing for my iPhone and iPad

I was tempted to stop reading after I read that. God forbid a free OS doesn't cater to your exact wants. Whenever I used linux (and ubuntu at that) the only thing it couldn't do was play a few windows games (through WINE) that I wanted to play. That aside I could come up with a comfortable substitute for almost everything else I use on a daily basis. My best experience was with Debian, and then Gentoo. It's definitely an OS that is for power users overall.
 

pelo

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+1 to what Zarathustra[H] said for sure!

That said, the new 1.4, Playonlinux, and Winetricks and some TIME put in initially and Gaming in Linux is actually getting to be not to terrible!

Gary

But it's still based on an API that's windows reliant. I dual boot and pretty much exclusively boot into win7 for gaming. I tried using wine and PoL but it can be difficult to get it working and sometimes it just doesn't work at all. Then there's always going to be a performance penalty on top of that due to the way the workarounds work. No this isn't the fault of linux but rather windows due to DX being theirs and theirs alone.

Getting DX to work on linux isn't the right way to go about it, imo. Using an open API that allows for multiple platforms is. Maybe we can all focus on openGL more ;)
 

Shikami

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I am so sick and tired of these false prophets and prophecies. The PC is dead-whatever. The console is dead-whatever. Blah this, and blah that.....Oil prices...don't get me started on that bullshit....anyways.

These fucking idiots have not a clue about Linux. Even if it is to"die" it can and shall be reborn into what it needs to be. This is the beauty of Linux. It cannot essentially die, and its usage on the desktop matters as much as me taking a golden shit. I think this ass face is just trying to stir up bullshit to keep his dead end job.
 

fx9

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I try linux every now and then. However, the issue I have every time I get stuck is the same.

I find an issue and I go looking for the solution. When I find articles on the solution all of them are written as though the first two pages of it have been torn out. You are expected to know how the command line works, how to handle tar.gz archives etc. etc. so straight away there is a barrier to okay lets use the term 'noobs'. A lot of linux articles are written with many assumptions already being made to the level of user experience.

So you then go to a linux forum and politely ask the question "Please can you tell me how I..."

Oh boy you may as well have thrown yourself to the wolves. You can just hear a worldwide collective eye roll and 'tsk' before angry fingers hit the keyboards and literally tear you a new one for daring to ask.

I remember being told by one helpful linux user "Oh so you expect all these people to take the time to help you??!!"

Well no, but I guess you hot a little help when you started? I just need a few pointers to get me started.

The Linux community is unfortunately it's own worst enemy. I find it very unforgiving to people that are new and want to learn more. Lack of empathy or social skills I don't know which but it really put you off trying to get to grips with it.

Yeah you can find same kinds of people in the Windows world but if you are looking for "How to" articles for Windows there are many and most start with "Click on the Start Button".

Totally different way of doing things. One works and one doesnt. The Linux community needs to calm down and be far more inclusive to people wanting to try. If people are wanting to try you should at least respect them for that and not just punch them in the face for trying to join your exclusive club.

I'm not sure which linux distro you tried that had such a unhelpful community, I can assure you the Ubuntu and Debian Community (as well as Mint) are not like this. Forums on the other hand, might treat you that way, but if you take the time to step into an Ubuntu or Debian IRC channel on freenode, you will see that this is not the case. They will help in any way they can, of course you will have to do some legwork as they will not hold your hand.
 

D4rkn3ss

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lol 10 pages?? oh god im so fucking drunk ill come back later and NO IS NOT DEAD!!!! (motherfucker!) :D
 

nOrVow

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I am so sick and tired of these false prophets and prophecies. The PC is dead-whatever. The console is dead-whatever. Blah this, and blah that.....Oil prices...don't get me started on that bullshit....anyways.

These fucking idiots have not a clue about Linux. Even if it is to"die" it can and shall be reborn into what it needs to be. This is the beauty of Linux. It cannot essentially die, and its usage on the desktop matters as much as me taking a golden shit. I think this ass face is just trying to stir up bullshit to keep his dead end job.

+ 1

Linux will stick to it's roots and continue to thrive. Who gives a shit about desktop popularity.

If major game studios can port to Mac OS, then wtf is so hard about porting to Linux?

WE NEED DUH GAIMEZ!! :D
 

thecrafter

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All I'm gonna say instead of bicker like children is that there's a reason (actually, much more than one) Linux is where it's at -always has been, always will be-, at the very bottom of the totem pole when it comes to desktops.
 

D4rkn3ss

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Whenever I used linux (and ubuntu at that) the only thing it couldn't do was play a few windows games (through WINE) that I wanted to play. That aside I could come up with a comfortable substitute for almost everything else I use on a daily basis.

WINE sucks, pure crap, dualboot win7x64pro is a lot better for windows emulation. (about 5% more drunk and still didnt read those 10 pages...)
 

Gorankar

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+ 1

Linux will stick to it's roots and continue to thrive. Who gives a shit about desktop popularity.

If major game studios can port to Mac OS, then wtf is so hard about porting to Linux?

WE NEED DUH GAIMEZ!! :D

The assumption of piracy, or that desktop nix users only use it because they are poor, or are using it on outdated hardware. Perhaps those false assumptions, but there it is. Macs also have a higher desktop market share. What may be profitable for the 5%, may not be profitable for the sub 2%. Oh, and Mac users have proven they are willing to throw cash around.
 

Adam.C

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All I'm gonna say instead of bicker like children is that there's a reason (actually, much more than one) Linux is where it's at -always has been, always will be-, at the very bottom of the totem pole when it comes to desktops.

yup. Linux will never I repeat NEVER be used and adopted by the masses. It just will not happen. When you have OSes like Win7 and of course Macs that work very well, and people are extremely familiar with them.
 

Gorankar

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The assumption of piracy, or that desktop nix users only use it because they are poor, or are using it on outdated hardware. Perhaps those ARE false assumptions, but there it is. Macs also have a higher desktop market share. What may be profitable for the 5%, may not be profitable for the sub 2%. Oh, and Mac users have proven they are willing to throw cash around.
I fixed it
I understand why, but I sometimes hate that we can not edit in this sub forum. Would kill for a 5 minute rule on editing here.
 

DeathPrincess

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+ 1

Linux will stick to it's roots and continue to thrive. Who gives a shit about desktop popularity.

If major game studios can port to Mac OS, then wtf is so hard about porting to Linux?

WE NEED DUH GAIMEZ!! :D

No money. The next used OS below windows, OSX at around 5% of the market gets next to no games. Because it costs money to port things, and the tiny target market makes it less attractive. Linux has even less users, so, you know. Very few major games get conversions to serve 5%, how many do you think would jump at the chance for an extra 1-2%? Plus who would pay for it?
 

FndTheRver

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My fucking goodness... why do people keep perpetuating this bullshit? :rolleyes:

There's plenty of distros that are heavily gui based to get new users feet wet. You don't NEED the CLI, it's just there. FFS

It's not the interface I was referring to, rather the out of the box experience. Everything doesn't work from the the first install, and the procedures for getting the non-GNU stuff to work is not as easy as it is on the mainstream OS's. There are some distros that cater to the beginning user, but in order to have an everyday system takes more tinkering. IMHO
 

hordaktheman

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I find it a bit hard to agree about linux not being for 'noobs'. It isn't that hard to use after a proper initial setup and, even then, setup issues are largely down to people's insistence on using far more recent (and compatibility breaking) kernel versions than they need. I've noticed that kernel-stable distros like CentOS are quite similar to OS X in that regard while my Fedora 16 install has had no less than 4 driver breaking kernel updates over the past three weeks. There is absolutely no reason for most people to be running the latest kernel and doing so places most of them out of their depth.

Also, bear in mind that OS X is little more than a Unix distro and Hackintoshers face the same issues that linux users do. The only difference to genuine Mac owners is that they don't have to deal with setup issues. But, once it's stable, it's no more or less stable than CentOS.

Usability is separate issue although Ubuntu has come a long way.
 

pankkake

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No money. The next used OS below windows, OSX at around 5% of the market gets next to no games. Because it costs money to port things, and the tiny target market makes it less attractive. Linux has even less users, so, you know. Very few major games get conversions to serve 5%, how many do you think would jump at the chance for an extra 1-2%? Plus who would pay for it?
It's also because macs explode when you get over 10% cpu/gpu usage.
 

BloodyIron

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I set my dad up with ubuntu netbook remix on his netbook a handful of years ago. He has had a few hiccups but he is still using it, and while he is kind of good with computers, he is still quite lamen. When I set him up with another Windows system recently (not to replace his netbook, but work with) he found himself in unfamiliar territory, but still made do.

Sometimes you need help, there's nothing wrong with that.
 

MrCaffeineX

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Just as Linux on the desktop is dead, so is PC gaming.

Sadly, it is true about PC gaming. At best we get weak console ports, at worst we get horrendous console ports. Though every now and then a developer still gives us a stellar experience for the PC to give us hope...
 

daglesj

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I'm not sure which linux distro you tried that had such a unhelpful community, I can assure you the Ubuntu and Debian Community (as well as Mint) are not like this. Forums on the other hand, might treat you that way, but if you take the time to step into an Ubuntu or Debian IRC channel on freenode, you will see that this is not the case. They will help in any way they can, of course you will have to do some legwork as they will not hold your hand.

I've used Ubuntu/Mint/Suse/Fedora etc. etc. same with all of them. Very negative experience of using them all and the support.

I'm prepared to meet folks half way. I'll do some research to get me so far but then I have to ask. When I ask I get either bile or just "You picked the wrong distro noob!"

It's not pleasant.:(
 

Ryokurin

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I think it depends on what you call helping. If I've said that I've looked a the man, done X and Y and have a question about it or it still isn't working, just saying to look up Z, download some program, but provide no link or any clue on what you should do with it or worse basically saying to do what I've already said I've done does not help. And Android to a point is starting to go down the same road.
 
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