Why Linux on the Desktop Is Dead

Red Falcon said:
Linux wasn't designed for average users because average users can barely use a web browser outside of IE or Safari, let alone a *gasp* different OS. :eek: :rolleyes:
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So then you agree with the article...

So why the frothing zealotry in the previous post? You should make up your mind.
 
I hate .net to bloated and tends to have lots of issue with it

I tried using Linux an bunch of times and its still not completely user friendly (commands are overly complicated), the Hole OS from low level could do with been simplified, i should not have to type and stupidity long command to do some thing that is simple to do even on windows at the command line level (the issue is with the programmers under Linux just do not seem to think that an Normal user or even some one like me the Folding@Home command line client is an good example of an Linux programmer not using Short words like -verbosity should just be -v)
 
Stone Cold said:
Windows is for power users
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Oh boy... lol

Come back when windows has a real shell. Then you can talk power usage.

Stone Cold said:
Apple is for simpletons, people too easily confused by complexity.
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Elitist w0ot!

Stone Cold said:
Who is Linux for?
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Linux is for people who complete control of their software and computing experience. This isn't the 90s where Red hat, Debian, and Slackware were the dominating (and most difficult) Linux distributions. There's easy shit out there.
 
Your experience is… weird. Almost all CLI applications have both short and long options (-v == --verbose). On some there is no long option and I find it annoying if it's not a common option (long options are interesting because easier to remember).
 
we had mandrake back then as an easy alternative, too
that's not the barrier to linux
 
I know I am going to get incinerator for this, but here goes nothing:

I like tinkering around with Linux (have both Ubuntu and Fedora 15(?) running in VirtualBox VMs) as much as the next person, but, the die-hard users are almost as bad as the die-hard iOS users...

Linux is an awesome server platform, but the same can not be said for desktops.
 
@ mope54,

Not to put Too fine a point on it, but have you ever heard of a tiny little project called KDE? I honestly could go on for quite a while naming C++ projects that are *nix centric, but I will not.

Ok, so how about that straight ANSI C... ? Hmm, how about Python, or perhaps Perl is your thing? Look, Programming is very much alive and well in *nix-land. You and InorganicMatter may seriously dislike *nix, but to say things like programming in it is hard or bad or in some way inferior is simply untrue to put it mildly. Now I will say that MS does have a Damn Nice *Trace type program that linux is finally trying hard to more or less replicate. No I am not talking about DTrace, but it too is pretty good... :)

Have fun,
Gary
 
I don't like 'nix and never said I did.

InorganicMatter simply asked the rabid responders (one in particular) for a list of things that 'nix does *better* than Windows. Someone else came along and said that linux is a programmer's first choice in OS, which is simply false.

That's the extent of my involvement in this thread and I'm not sure what else you are reading from my responses but glad to clarify that up for you.
 
Ahh ok, it just seemed like maybe you were more than a bit down on *nix, my bad. I think I missed the whole "Linux Rules for Programming" thing. That of course is untrue as well.

One thing that recently happened is that the Android kernel has more or less been incorperated into the Linux kernal now. So soonish more Android Hackers will be able to enable a LOT more linux functionality on the Android Mobile platforms. This might have some ramifications... and the whole OpenGL on Mobile and OpenCL as well is also interesting.

Interesting Times...
Gary
 
Oh, and as for InorganicMatter, You really could be a straight up bookend for my RL Brother! I have had this conversation with him more than a few times!

Fact: Windows is the dominant platform. Fact: It has quite a few nice "little" things that keep folks tied to it.

Then again, Linux does offer a certain refreshing freedom in numerous ways / other ways.

I was a Rabid Foaming at the mouth Windows 2000 user... I did not care too much for XP, laughed my A$$ off at ME, Seriously did not like Fista... I admit Win7 was not too bad... but by that time MS had pissed me off so badly I said " I really don't care how bad this hurts...Screw MS!!" and I admit...there were days I had the "shakes" and nearly reached for my XP ( yes...i know what I said ) CD. Fortunately for me, I resisted them and these days Linux Life is going nice and smooth for the most part. Not Perfect...but then Windows was never QUITE perfect either :) Now if MS ever pulled their heads out of their asses and Brought back Win2k... damn me but I would buy it in a NY minute and install and smile! Fortunately for me, that will *NOT* be happening!

Have fun,
Gary
 
If game studios released Linux ports for their games, M$ would lose a large fraction of their user base. But unfortunately it only makes up like .1% of the market.


Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that percentage. lol
 
Red Falcon said:
Wow, apparently he didn't understand that Linux isn't an OS for noobs. :rolleyes:

The whole point is that you can mold Linux to whatever hardware and software platforms you want.

That's not the point of Linux.


Linux isn't necessarily designed to be user-friendly, depending on the distro.
It's an OS in which the user can FULLY customize the kernel, back-end, and front-end.
You can't do that with Windows and OS X, they are far too rigid to mold to anything other than x86 and ARM platforms, and even then it's limited at best and even less so with Windows.

If this idiot wants a user-friendly OS, he needs to go with OS X as even Windows will be too difficult for him to fully understand.
Mindless computing at it's finest.

It's painfully obvious that Linux is far beyond his realm of understanding and comprehension.
He reminds me of these system admins who treat their systems and operations like it was the mid-90's.

Funny, I don't see any of the world's supercomputers running Windows.
Oh wait, they ALL use custom Linux variants.

Holy shit, that article was nothing but a metric-ton of fail.
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why are you parroting exactly what the author said? the point of the article is, for most people, Linux just isn't worth the bother. and you give him a word-wedgie while saying exactly the same thing....


I used the beta version of Linux to try it out, and then I Tested assorted distros over the years, hoping it had caught up to windows. nope. sorry. I don't use Linux for the simple reason that it is just not worth the bother for me. cheers, bottoms up on a jug of failsauce for me, i suppose.
 
pankkake said:
Your experience is… weird. Almost all CLI applications have both short and long options (-v == --verbose). On some there is no long option and I find it annoying if it's not a common option (long options are interesting because easier to remember).
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F@H cmd version is the Linux Client converted to just work on windows so most of the flag commands was full words

I always found short to be the preferred with Long been optional its how most windows command line apps are (i good with computers as its my living but spelling is not my strong point i could never get -verbosity spelt right, think that's what the command flag was called i do learn but -v for that command makes more sense)
 
Did one of the 3 linux users die? Are we down to two? :eek:

He died too soon...I heard this is the year of the linux desktop. :(
 
I agree with him. Definitely not gonna flourish on the consumer desktop space, ever.
 
Well, never is a long time.. that being said Metro / Gnome 3 / Unity ... /SIGH !! Fortunately there is KDE and Cinnamon, oh and LXDE, and XFCE... :) and a few dozen others, some of which are a pain in the ass to configure the first time around. For now at least Linux mainstream has lost it's ever-loving mind!

I will say that the linux video driver problems are actually beginning to ease up a little. For instance, if you own an Nvidia 680 right now... in the Linux Next developement kernel there is basic support already in place for it! Amazed me to hear it!! But a couple of dedicated hackers got early access to 680 dev boards and worked their A$$'s off to bring it "on launch day" so to speak. Yeah ok, the Nay Brayers are Braying "But can I just DL and Click and Have it NOWZE...ok no you can not! But here pretty soon you can haha :) That being said, Nvidia's driver release for linux seems to be not only right on time, but in pretty good shape! And that one is pretty close to point and click...

Ok my roots are showing a bit.. :p
Gary
 
i'd hate to admit it, but in the corporate "users" world, its really the reality, its not really the basic usage that is the problem, you can just actually fix the GUI to fit the needs of your company if you want, its the basic when "shi1t happens", this is where the issue is, your user (and even the IT guy) will surely have headaches, sometimes, a simple unmount of an NFS share, spells disaster, a simple, can you please check the logs to see if what happened?, user suddenly says, what the fcsk are all these files on /var/logs. Im not gonna say its dead, maybe somehow in the near future, there maybe changes, but currently, Im having doubts of implementing linux distros on our user's desktop as well. I dont like OSX, but heck, Apple was able to make a unix based system accessible, maybe they can get some pointers there, i dunno
 
It's simple. The business world is using Windows desktops. The home computer market has been dominated by Windows desktops. Most computer users walk into a store, talk to some sales person, and buy a box pre-loaded. Take that person that's used to Windows and put them in front of Linux, and they're going to be confused over why it doesn't work just like Windows, will get annoyed the first time they hit a permissions restriction, get frustrated when they can't find out how to get around it, and decided to go back to what they already know. They don't want to learn a new operating system, they just want to use the computer.

Now flip this over. Server admins that work with either Unix or Linux daily will be more likely to use it on a desktop because they're used to it. They already know the commands, and they're more system-oriented as opposed to application-oriented. They won't like Windows or iOS as much because they don't behave like Linux.

How does this relate to market share? There's a lot more administrative assistants, call center people, and other general office staff than there are server admins and system engineers out there. Ease of use and familiarity trumps security and "power user" functionality when it comes to the general public. That's why Linux has not caught on as a general use OS. If it were "dumbed down" to behave just like Windows then it might, but that kind of defeats the purpose, does it not?
 
MajorDomo said:
Now I know what reaction this will evoke since there are some really vocal Linux supporters out there, but please don’t shoot the messenger. :D Tony Bradley over at PCWorld tried out Linux desktop OS for a month and offers his take on the shape of the desktop world.
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I'm sorry, but the "try it for a month" schtick is bullshit.

It's just not enough time to get a system that's totally new to you completely dialed in. It just isn't.

Case Study: Piers Anthony (Yes, the self-avowed "Dirty Old Man" author).
It took him several YEARS to wean himself off Windows. Granted, he did it earlier on than many people, was quite a bit older (and less flexible), and had lots of help. But he did. His system works for him now.

The idea that you can "dial in" one of the most customizable operating systems on the planet in a 30 day period is ludicrous.
 
I know that this may be out of place here but this Acer AMD Turion laptop my friend got that was not able to run XP in any bearable manner runs sharpish with Gentoo desktop.... Granted it took me 5 hoours to make the wifi and sound working.... Each to his own.
 
OK, I started reading through this thread... then skimming... then I just skipped the last few pages...

It seems that nobody is addressing the difference between a "Desktop" and a "Workstation"

Desktop - A stand-alone personal computer built to handle popular computing tasks such as internet browsing, gaming, word processing, etc... A desktop can be networked to share files or some resources, but is designed to work independently.

Workstation - A computer that is typically networked with other computers and servers to allow input or functionality for an end-user across an often expansive and/or custom network. Workstations can operate individually when they are built to perform specific tasks or run specialized hardware. Although workstations often have the functionality of a desktop, they are more often built and programed specifically for specialized tasks determined by the company or network administrator.

Everything is dependent on needs. Heavy computing tasks are typically done on a workstation, not a desktop ... form factor means nothing, since you can easily turn an off-the-shelf desktop into a server, or take a server Motherboard and build an obnoxiously overpowered desktop. Just because it's in a tower, and has a keyboard, mouse, and monitor plugged in to it, that does NOT make it a "Desktop"

So in that respect, I agree with the article's sentiments. Even many workstations do everything they need to do under a much more user friendly and intuitive OS like windows. For the specialty operations, there's Linux. Yes, "Noobs use desktops" is a valid statement. That being said, Linux doesn't make sense for use on a desktop (aside from financial reasons)
 
Windows will soon be dead on the desktop too if they insist on forcing that Metro shit upon us.
 
Arainach said:
Ah, yes, the other reason why Linux on the desktop will never catch on - their unbearable users.
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+ eleventy billion. Our Linux guy is no Linus-level Linux g0d by any stretch but can build/install/config/update/maintain server installs with his eyes closed. But even he has to ask questions sometimes on the net and almost *every* single time he asks for help on the net he gets RTF-whatever and "seriously, noob!" and other comments I won't mention (might be some really young grasshoppers here with virgin ears LOL).

I am not saying that 100% of the people in the Linux community are a-holes, but a good enough portion that frequent the sites and post there are so stuck up that getting help is a real PITA sometimes. To all you Linux pricks on the net who talk down to n00bs: you were a n00b at some point too, remember that!
 
Did you all hear that Iceland government is going all in on linux? MS is pissing enough folks off that some of them are hitting the "Negotiate" button pretty hard :) Kick M$ in the money pit and it squeals a pretty $$ tune real fast... should be interesting to see how long Iceland has to use Linux before Steve trots over and starts throwing bags and barrels of money at their govt...

Quite a number of you have really blown this Linux is not usable thing WAY out of context... for instance :: My brother-in-laws both are on ubuntu linux now because the one most especially could NOT keep a windows install alive for more than 4-5 months to save his soul. Porn sites galore, me telling him "even with 'condoms' if you stick it in enough diff hoes...you WILL get something bad" /sigh... but hey good old Gary will Just-Snap-His-Fingers-And-It-Will-Be-Insta-Fixed! *Cough* umm...yeah not really insta... That was about 2 years ago now, and ubuntu has not blown up or failed him! Of course he really only does Porn Sites, email, pictures, videos / music, and IM / Facebook / Skype etc... but hey it has been a God-Send for me! Damn but I got tired of fixing those comps RIGHT BLOODY NOWWZ!!! every time a new set of Virus etc came out... /sigh Gotta love Norton and company...but in fairness the black hats have the home court advantage.

Happy Surfing,
Gary
 
Sounds like every other "*nix is dead" article. One every 6 months. I love my linux desktops at work and home. I am however bout to start building a pc for gaming again and it will run win7. I also know that it's going to suck paying for an OS, something that I havent done in at least 10 years.
 
Oh and for those who keep saying Work Station... there is the little company called Red Hat that makes it their business to Just Make Things Work. If you call them and sign up for a support contract, they have engineers who can set stuff up very nicely for you. Yes it does cost $, but hey MS is far from free. Red Hat is over all pretty affordable in comparison to MS..

Ohh by the way.... do a GOOGLE SEARCH == Wall Street and Red Hat ...go ahead... no really :p

Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. Up untill I seen the Metro mess I was actually considering MS again... thank god they pulled that metro crap! hahah
 
Just say NO to fixing people's computers. Once you say yes they think you are their personal free tech support.
 
kontact,

Yes, and the worst part is... "Dude come ON it don't take this long!!" Yeah a whole 20 minutes have gone by and they are on like a P3 with 256 and an OLD hdd... hell even a Defrag (umm defrag..?? whassdat?) takes forever on some of those old systems. Fortunately I forced him to upgrade not too long before I upgraded him from Vista to Ubuntu :)

Yuppers...just say no!!! These days I am "A Real Dick"... YUPPERS!! :) It is amazing what gets dumped in your lap...hey I *Cough* got this laptop and it is PW protected ....i forgot "MY" PW can you reset it... /me looks at it.... yeah it belongs to a business...yeah it is BIOS PW Protected... Umm...No Piss off K-Thx-Bye! Heh, they were not even an employee of said business...

Have a good one,
Gary
 
ir0nw0lf said:
+ eleventy billion. Our Linux guy is no Linus-level Linux g0d by any stretch but can build/install/config/update/maintain server installs with his eyes closed. But even he has to ask questions sometimes on the net and almost *every* single time he asks for help on the net he gets RTF-whatever and "seriously, noob!" and other comments I won't mention (might be some really young grasshoppers here with virgin ears LOL).

I am not saying that 100% of the people in the Linux community are a-holes, but a good enough portion that frequent the sites and post there are so stuck up that getting help is a real PITA sometimes. To all you Linux pricks on the net who talk down to n00bs: you were a n00b at some point too, remember that!
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And the "windows guys" are so nice in this thread, right?
 
I tend to be of the opinion that for most people, if you can use Windows, just use Windows. I use Linux at work and on virtual machines at home to do data processing and all that jazz because its easier to do especially since all the other guys at work use it.

When I get home and aren't working, I have games I want to play and applications I want to use (hell even at work I have some things I need Windows to do). Tried to get my parents on to Linux and my Mum was fine with it until she wanted to install some programs and came back to me asking why she couldn't so I tried to find alternatives and frankly the alternatives were all shit and user unfriendly and just an annoyance.

In the end it just becomes a case of you need Windows for certain things unless you want to waste your life looking for shitty alternatives, so why complicate things by having to use linux as well?
 
This whole discussion reminds me of an elongated argument I had with one of my instructors at the AOC sysadmin school. After the first UNIX lesson (for this class anyway) he asked me what I thought of UNIX, and I responded, it's obsolete (and keep in mind, we were learning UNIX because some of the client side software in TBMCS is UNIX based using something called the DII COE environment). I mean, we're learning all of these terminal commands (most of which I knew already FWIW) to do tasks that are easily accomplished in a GUI on a modern OS.

And don't get me started on how retarded VI is. It's a fucking text editor. All it needs to do is to edit text. There's NO reason it should be as complicated as it is.
 
Daggah said:
And don't get me started on how retarded VI is. It's a fucking text editor. All it needs to do is to edit text. There's NO reason it should be as complicated as it is.
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Ha, a guy at work tried to get me on to emacs, my goodness, its like you have the entire computing world with its standard text editing features, systems, methods, shortcuts and then you have emacs where fucking everything is different. Makes you feel like you're learning how to use a computer from scratch or something. I must admit, I did like Alt+Q and haven't found a good emulation of emac's Alt+Q anywhere yet.

About the GUI stuff, I kinda agree with you and kinda don't. Yeah, for general every day computing tasks a GUI is good, when you actually start to work on a computer the weaknesses of a GUI over a decent text based interface start to come through. I still find it annoying I can't just write scripts for programs like ANSYS. Awesome interface and all, but when you're using the program all day for weeks on end the awesome GUI is a hindrance more than a help.
 
Well, keep in mind, we're talking about a three week course designed for military enlisted personnel. And the entire class isn't 100% focused on UNIX, either. So when I'm talking about learning UNIX commands, I'm talking about the very basics...rm, ls, cp, mv, mkdir, etc. I'm referring to computing tasks that are just as easily and quickly handled in a GUI environment.
 
My take is as follows.

Desktop linux is great for beginners. The Feacebook and webmail crowd can use it just fine without any issues, and be more secure than with Wincows.

The medium experience and gamer crowd will chave under linux, and have trouble and feel like they are "fighting it" along the way.

Expert users on the other hand will find that Desktop linux makes their lives easier compared to Windows.

It's that middle group which it fails for.
 
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