Why I won't be buying Vista

[Xilikon]

This will be my last reply on this topic and this is :

Why don't we stop arguing then wait till some ppl get to try this and report the results. I'm pretty sure it's just hot air and nothing to worry about. As long as we don't activate Vista each week, we should be good to go... Granted MS may be barking the wrong tree with the EULA changes but they have bigger bones to get than us. It's possible they might reword it slighty by the release day, which is still 3 months away.

 

[BinarySynapse]

Grey areas? I see. Well..if it happens call MS and plead ur case? Hardly. Precisely what other company expects you to pay upwards of $300 for something, then when you want to use it as you see fit you have to "plead your case". Fuck off. Seriously I mean that in the nicest possible way. I pay $300 cash money...did I mention greenbacks...for a "agreement" to use this software, then I basically am hamstrung as to what I put it on? So my HD craps out..there goes one activation..then my mobob dies...oops sorry. That will be anopther $300 Mr. Ghettobox. There is ZERO excuse for this...ZERO. This isnt anti piracy and anyone with half a clue about computers knows this. This is simply about lining pockets, and control over peoples computers. This will have the opposite affect on piracy.

Maybe I wont switch to BSD or Linux full time just yet...but XP isnt going anywhere in the next five years. Thankfully.

Ghettobox

Ok just to clear some things up, changing your harddrive isn't going to force a re-activation, changing your motherboard (as long as the new on is the same model) sin't going to force a re-activation. It didn't for XP and MS is saying that the activation scheme is going to me more relaxed tha Vista.

MS defines a system as the motherboard. You change the motherboard to one that is completely different than your original one, that's going to count as one of your transfers. The problem I have with this though, is that I rarely keep a motherboard for more than a year, so after two years I'd have to reinvest another $xx in another copy of Vista. Not too cool having to replace a working product with one that is absolutely the exact same thing.

I guess I could use my 3rd party transfer right (as defined in the proposed EULA) to sell my old copy of Vista to get a new copy of VIsta. hmmm....

 

[taurean]

Ok just to clear some things up, changing your harddrive isn't going to force a re-activation, changing your motherboard (as long as the new on is the same model) sin't going to force a re-activation. It didn't for XP and MS is saying that the activation scheme is going to me more relaxed tha Vista.

MS defines a system as the motherboard. You change the motherboard to one that is completely different than your original one, that's going to count as one of your transfers. The problem I have with this though, is that I rarely keep a motherboard for more than a year, so after two years I'd have to reinvest another $xx in another copy of Vista. Not too cool having to replace a working product with one that is absolutely the exact same thing.

I guess I could use my 3rd party transfer right (as defined in the proposed EULA) to sell my old copy of Vista to get a new copy of VIsta. hmmm....

Or you could call up Microsoft and tell them you've changed motherboards on your system a few times and they will correct the problem.

 

[BinarySynapse]

Or you could call up Microsoft and tell them you've changed motherboards on your system a few times and they will correct the problem.

I was being purely hypothetical.

 

[jimmyb]

License related question:

I tend to run Windows in a vm the majority of the time. I also dual boot for games. Can I install one copy in a vm and another on the physical disk on the same machine?

 

[Tutelary]

This will be my last reply on this topic and this is :

Why don't we stop arguing then wait till some ppl get to try this and report the results. I'm pretty sure it's just hot air and nothing to worry about. As long as we don't activate Vista each week, we should be good to go... Granted MS may be barking the wrong tree with the EULA changes but they have bigger bones to get than us. It's possible they might reword it slighty by the release day, which is still 3 months away.

thats stupid. try it and report the results? who the hell cares, if they write it in how its written in now, they can pull the damn 'friendly' plug whenever they damn well feel like it, THAT is the problem.

 

[oldpablo]

License related question:

I tend to run Windows in a vm the majority of the time. I also dual boot for games. Can I install one copy in a vm and another on the physical disk on the same machine?

Legally no. And activation-wise, it'll take up one of your activations in the VM. If you are just learning/testing stuff, use the trial versions for that kind of stuff. If you use it permanently in a VM (like my SBS at home) then you buy a copy since you are in effect using two copies.

 

[oldpablo]

thats stupid. try it and report the results? who the hell cares, if they write it in how its written in now, they can pull the damn 'friendly' plug whenever they damn well feel like it, THAT is the problem.

And we know those bastards will because they are heartless snakes bent on world enslavement and eating souls and sh**!

 

[djnes]

Why don't we stop arguing then wait till some ppl get to try this and report the results.

And use common sense, logic, and rational thinking? That's not how things are done in this subforum. Why use logic when we can just bitch about something that's just a rumor/theory at this point?

The same thing happened before XP was released, people got their panties in a bunch, and it all turned out to be nothing major. The same thing will happen again.

 

[hardc0re]

There was a row over XP's restrictions on new hardware installs and activation, none of which were much of a big deal. It's software... it can be changed and shaped into what different market niches want and nobody is forcing you to buy it.

 

[feverfive]

I don't upgrade hardware like the vast majority here, but my concerns w/ MS run deep, & even though they won't miss my business, I plan to switch to OSX once Leopard is released...already have my eye on a 24" Core 2 Duo iMac... I've used nothing but Windows since high school when my high school bought a bunch of Apple IIe's back in the day. Won't know what to do w/ my time not having to test security software and such, but, oh well!!

 

[Gatticus]

And use common sense, logic, and rational thinking? That's not how things are done in this subforum. Why use logic when we can just bitch about something that's just a rumor/theory at this point?

The same thing happened before XP was released, people got their panties in a bunch, and it all turned out to be nothing major. The same thing will happen again.

And if no one speaks out we are sure to see those rumours come true. Claiming they are just rumours is not accurate at all. Did you not read the Vista EULA posted to the internet by Microsoft? Your logic is flawed.

 

[djnes]

And if no one speaks out we are sure to see those rumours come true. Claiming they are just rumours is not accurate at all. Did you not read the Vista EULA posted to the internet by Microsoft? Your logic is flawed.

MY logic is flawed? You've already made your buying decision over something that's purely speculation? You seem to be ignoring the number of people who are trying to remind you that there was a big flap over XP's activation 5 years ago, and that turned out to be nothing. I'm not going to assume anything about age and experience, but if you were in the IT field 5 years ago, you'd remember that the backlash from XP's activation is far worse than what's going on here. Keep your pants on and think rationally for a change. You puffed your chest out thinking you uncovered a conspiracy, and quite a few people took the wind out of your sails with common sense. Microsoft isn't stupid...they aren't going to alienate one of the groups that will help to push Vista.

1) Take a deep breath
2) Relax
3) Untwist panties

 

[tempo*]

MS can pretty much do as they please, this is true, but I hear the point about XP activation and it hacks me off even now everytime I do it.

Cant believe that MS wont release a DX10 derivative for XP. This is pretty much suicide as even thought the core PC users (those that use this forum) might all upgrade to Vista pretty quickly, the majority of the business and general users will take years to move from XP (which is still a very fine OS) to Vista. By that time DX11 may be on its way!

 

[kurt454]

MS can pretty much do as they please, this is true, but I hear the point about XP activation and it hacks me off even now everytime I do it.

Cant believe that MS wont release a DX10 derivative for XP. This is pretty much suicide as even thought the core PC users (those that use this forum) might all upgrade to Vista pretty quickly, the majority of the business and general users will take years to move from XP (which is still a very fine OS) to Vista. By that time DX11 may be on its way!

General users that just use their machines for email or instant messenger programs, won't care about DX10. PC Gaming enthusiasts are the ones wanting to jump to Vista to get DX10 eye candy.

If this license transfer restriction turns out to be true, I may keep my main PC on XP for a LONG while to come. I may just have to play games in DX9 mode on XP, or get a console.

 

[Gavv]

MY logic is flawed? You've already made your buying decision over something that's purely speculation? You seem to be ignoring the number of people who are trying to remind you that there was a big flap over XP's activation 5 years ago, and that turned out to be nothing. I'm not going to assume anything about age and experience, but if you were in the IT field 5 years ago, you'd remember that the backlash from XP's activation is far worse than what's going on here. Keep your pants on and think rationally for a change. You puffed your chest out thinking you uncovered a conspiracy, and quite a few people took the wind out of your sails with common sense. Microsoft isn't stupid...they aren't going to alienate one of the groups that will help to push Vista.

1) Take a deep breath
2) Relax
3) Untwist panties

Your free to see it however you wish. However there are more and more people who are seeing the same things we are with MS. And not just speculating.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing_reply.asp

We are choosing to voice our opinions/concerns now when things can be changed as opposed to later when they cannot or MS decides not to change it. At least now we speak out and tell MS that our money may not be spent on their product with these restrictions. And our money may not amount to a hill of beans with MS but its our money and our decisions..

 

[djnes]

I'm all for providing feedback. Read through many of my Vista related posts, where I have suggested that people use the report problem shortcut on their desktops. My point is, Vista isn't even Gold yet, and quite a few MS representatives have said this won't cause any problem to legitimate users.

That being said, it's perfectly fine to voice your opinion and displeasure with something in Vista....that's what a beta test period is all about. However, making your buying decisions NOW is ridiculous. You wouldn't choose your wife simply from a picture, would you? No, you'd want to get to know here, date her for a while, and then make the decision (Russianbrides.com not withstanding). That's why I said for everyone to chill out, take a deep breath, and see what happens down the road.

 

[Gavv]

However, making your buying decisions NOW is ridiculous. You wouldn't choose your wife simply from a picture, would you? No, you'd want to get to know here, date her for a while, and then make the decision (Russianbrides.com not withstanding). That's why I said for everyone to chill out, take a deep breath, and see what happens down the road.

Well I certainly don't see the OS lease store down at the corner. I go buy software to own, not to lease. I can't get to know it and then return it either. I have to agree to that EULA agreement before it gets installed. Correct? I don't go buy a car to have the dealer tell me that if I change the tires 2 times in the cars life I have to repurchase the car. That would be rediculas now wouldn't it?

 

[djnes]

Well I certainly don't see the OS lease store down at the corner. I go buy software to own, not to lease. I can't get to know it and then return it either. I have to agree to that EULA agreement before it gets installed. Correct? I don't go buy a car to have the dealer tell me that if I change the tires 2 times in the cars life I have to repurchase the car. That would be rediculas now wouldn't it?

I hate to tell you, but you are always leasing the OS....you haven't owned any of them to this point. When you lease a car, you play by the car dealerships rules. When you run an OS, you play by the EULA's rules.

 

[Gavv]

I hate to tell you, but you are always leasing the OS....you haven't owned any of them to this point. When you lease a car, you play by the car dealerships rules. When you run an OS, you play by the EULA's rules.

Naw, it's ok. I know technically I am leasing MS OS by their rules. And that is the problem... different philosophy's, different expectations, etc. But you see the point I was trying to make. We can point, counter-point all day long on how things are vs hows things should be etc.

Simply put it boils down to what you want to spend your money on. And with the restrictions and limitations that MS is "proposing" in this version of their EULA. I can say that upgrading to Vista as it stands now will be on the back shelf for a long time to come strictly for me based on their restrictions of use.

 

[djnes]

I see your points, and I myself agree I'm in no hurry to upgrade. I plan to get one copy and put it on a test machine on my network once it's final. I have no plns at this point to upgrade my entire company. Once it's released, and is out in the wild, that may change.

If Microsoft truly makes it difficult for us enthusiasts, then I would gladly stick with XP. I'm also all for voicing displeasure (to the correct avenues) about this proposition. All my points where, until Vista is final and we see how this shakes out, it's too early to condemn Vista to death, or rush out to be first in line to buy it. It's good to get this out, make people aware of it, but let's take a wait and see attitude.

 

[Gatticus]

MY logic is flawed? You've already made your buying decision over something that's purely speculation? You seem to be ignoring the number of people who are trying to remind you that there was a big flap over XP's activation 5 years ago, and that turned out to be nothing. I'm not going to assume anything about age and experience, but if you were in the IT field 5 years ago, you'd remember that the backlash from XP's activation is far worse than what's going on here. Keep your pants on and think rationally for a change. You puffed your chest out thinking you uncovered a conspiracy, and quite a few people took the wind out of your sails with common sense. Microsoft isn't stupid...they aren't going to alienate one of the groups that will help to push Vista.

1) Take a deep breath
2) Relax
3) Untwist panties

It wasn't specualtion it was based on fact. An EULA posted to the internet is fact and not speculation. Quotes from a rep of Microsoft are fact and not speculation. What facts have you posted to this thread? None.

Ignoring the number of people? I see about three Microsoft weenies in this thread. They don't give any arguments to disaude me from my line of thought. In fact, it is you and they who are speculating. And don't get me started on XP activation, that is a completely seperate issue to this one so your point is irrelevant but I don't agree with your view on XP activation either. I'll untwist my panties when you take your head out of your ass.

 

[Gatticus]

That's why I said for everyone to chill out, take a deep breath, and see what happens down the road.

And that's where you logic is flawed. It is better to make concerns known now than to take a wait and see stance.

 

[Skolar]

Tried Vista. Thought it was cool, but I'm not buying it. Yeah I know its more secure, but so is my XP box. It looks nicer, but I don't care. If I want nice I'll play a video game. Screw copy protection and DRM I'll use XP or linux till I die if I have to to keep what's mine mine.

 

[jimmyb]

However, making your buying decisions NOW is ridiculous. You wouldn't choose your wife simply from a picture, would you?

Now I don't normally respond to analogies, but a picture could certainly disqualify someone from being my wife.

Anyway...
I think most people are making the decision contingent on whether these "rumours" are true. Obviously if they turn out to be false many people will retract their decision.

Insisting that everyone preface their comments with "If this turns out to be true" is being pedantic.

Personally I'm not concerned with the license since I stopped following the ridiculous sections of it years ago (like this). I'll buy a copy when the price drops.

 

[oldpablo]

And that's where you logic is flawed. It is better to make concerns known now than to take a wait and see stance.

So other then posting in an enthusiast forum, please share how you plan to change Microsoft on this? I'll tell you right now that I'm sure they have plenty of people already handling this, with a much wider perspective and accurate view of the industry then all in this thread I'm sure. If you personally aren't going to do something about it, then you are taking a wait and see stance like the rest of us. Which by the way works just fine for those of us that understand MS better then the autopilot bandwagon hate club. Do I wish there was no such thing as activation? Sure why not. Would I be slightly annoyed if I had to call in? Sure. BUT the difference is I understand the need for it, and I agree that they deserve to be able to take care of bidness.

While you're waiting and seeing, have a read of these two articles if you haven't already:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing_reply.asp

Note that as has been said, its no different then when XP came out. The difference is its just more clear. The reply article was well articulated and had very valid points. But as usual, its not all over and done. MS will do what's best for itself and for its users, despite those of you that think only the former. Their glass is not always half empty. Call me what you will, I don't care. I've overall enjoyed the computer industry over the last decade due to what MS has done for all of us, and they deserve some respect and credit. It must eat all you MS haters up inside that despite all your whining, you're still Bill Gates bitch.

If you're finally taking the big leap and moving to linux or apple... kthxbye.

 

[duby229]

I'm all for providing feedback. Read through many of my Vista related posts, where I have suggested that people use the report problem shortcut on their desktops. My point is, Vista isn't even Gold yet, and quite a few MS representatives have said this won't cause any problem to legitimate users.

Sorry I have to disagree....

The ONLY people this will affect is legitimate users...

Let's face the facts here, it will be cracked shortly after it gets released, then it will be slipstreamed a couple days later, and anyone who wants to make there own cracked, slipstreamed disk will be able to do it in one simple, easy to use interface.

Meanwhile those poor folks that are actually abiding the law get screwed every time they upgrade the system.

 

[djnes]

And that's where you logic is flawed. It is better to make concerns known now than to take a wait and see stance.

And you still think I'm the one with flawed logic?

No where did I say stating concerns is a bad idea. Steve Ballmer doesn't read the [H], so you might have to do a little more than start a panicky thread.

I will also state one more time, since you haven't grasped it yet. This EXACT thing happened with XP, and yet it turned out to be just a fizzle...the ol' mountain out of a molehill analogy. I think I'll use common sense and past history, and side with the "Microsoft weenies" on this one.

Any decision right now is still on a beta product. Can you buy Vista right now? No, so despite your ramblings, you're going to have to take a wait and see approach. Again, more logic you failed to grasp.

 

[djnes]

Sorry I have to disagree....

The ONLY people this will affect is legitimate users...

Let's face the facts here, it will be cracked shortly after it gets released, then it will be slipstreamed a couple days later, and anyone who wants to make there own cracked, slipstreamed disk will be able to do it in one simple, easy to use interface.

Meanwhile those poor folks that are actually abiding the law get screwed every time they upgrade the system.

It probably will be cracked. I'd bet on it. But legitimate users weren't affected by XPs activation. Okay, so some people had to waste a whole 5 minutes on the phone. I wouldn't call that a problem. Furthermore, driving imaging could easily circumvent this "problem" legally.

 

[duby229]

It probably will be cracked. I'd bet on it. But legitimate users weren't affected by XPs activation. Okay, so some people had to waste a whole 5 minutes on the phone. I wouldn't call that a problem. Furthermore, driving imaging could easily circumvent this "problem" legally.

That may be true for XP, but Vista is a bit more complicated....

15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.
a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device becomes the “licensed device.”
b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. The first user of the software may reassign the license to another device one time, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded from allows reassignment.

In other words.....

"If you upgrade your system more then once your screwed...."

With XP it was a matter of calling MS, in Vista that is not an option on the second upgrade. XP? You can simply make a phone call. Vista? Nope. Not an option. It's right here in plain english. Spelled out out in proper grammar. Easy to read in two simple paragraphs.... Your avaerage Joe, he gets screwed.... Your avaerage tech geek, he slipstreams his shit after cracking it.... The ONLY one to suffer is your average joe.

 

[djnes]

And it's been stated quite a few times on here already that this isn't finalized. Hence all the comments about providing feedback to the proper channels. Furthermore, the average joe only buys OEM computers that come with OSes pre-installed, nullifying the entire discussion.

 

[Gatticus]

So other then posting in an enthusiast forum, please share how you plan to change Microsoft on this? I'll tell you right now that I'm sure they have plenty of people already handling this, with a much wider perspective and accurate view of the industry then all in this thread I'm sure. If you personally aren't going to do something about it, then you are taking a wait and see stance like the rest of us. Which by the way works just fine for those of us that understand MS better then the autopilot bandwagon hate club. Do I wish there was no such thing as activation? Sure why not. Would I be slightly annoyed if I had to call in? Sure. BUT the difference is I understand the need for it, and I agree that they deserve to be able to take care of bidness.

While you're waiting and seeing, have a read of these two articles if you haven't already:

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing.asp
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_licensing_reply.asp

Note that as has been said, its no different then when XP came out. The difference is its just more clear. The reply article was well articulated and had very valid points. But as usual, its not all over and done. MS will do what's best for itself and for its users, despite those of you that think only the former. Their glass is not always half empty. Call me what you will, I don't care. I've overall enjoyed the computer industry over the last decade due to what MS has done for all of us, and they deserve some respect and credit. It must eat all you MS haters up inside that despite all your whining, you're still Bill Gates bitch.

If you're finally taking the big leap and moving to linux or apple... kthxbye.

What a complete asshole you are. Just so you know, I've been using Linux for about five years already, that doesn't mean I stop using Windows? You ok with that?

You think this is the only forum I participate in? Are you forgetting about usenet too? I've already read all the articles so you are telling me nothing I don't already know. In fact, I've already been in contact with the author of the urls you posted regarding this issue so you don't have a clue about how many people I've made aware of this issue or what my level of involvement is so just STFU.

 

[duby229]

And it's been stated quite a few times on here already that this isn't finalized. Hence all the comments about providing feedback to the proper channels. Furthermore, the average joe only buys OEM computers that come with OSes pre-installed, nullifying the entire discussion.

I'm gonna make a comparison.... Bare with me for one moment....

"It's OK to gas the Jews.... They wont feel it, so it doesnt affect them anyway."

Or maybe we could use this one.....

"It's OK to rape that drunk girl.... She wont remember it anyway."

I personally really like this one.....

"It's OK to rip off the poor noobs...... They dont know any better anyway."

 

[topslop1]

It probably will be cracked. I'd bet on it. But legitimate users weren't affected by XPs activation. Okay, so some people had to waste a whole 5 minutes on the phone. I wouldn't call that a problem. Furthermore, driving imaging could easily circumvent this "problem" legally.

You just bet it will? If it was made by man, it can be unmade by man. I'm 100% sure it will be cracked, and this drives up the prices for the end users who are legitimate. Sucks, but it's true.

 

[Gatticus]

And you still think I'm the one with flawed logic?

No where did I say stating concerns is a bad idea. Steve Ballmer doesn't read the [H], so you might have to do a little more than start a panicky thread.

I will also state one more time, since you haven't grasped it yet. This EXACT thing happened with XP, and yet it turned out to be just a fizzle...the ol' mountain out of a molehill analogy. I think I'll use common sense and past history, and side with the "Microsoft weenies" on this one.

Any decision right now is still on a beta product. Can you buy Vista right now? No, so despite your ramblings, you're going to have to take a wait and see approach. Again, more logic you failed to grasp.

You know for a fact Steve Ballmer doesn't read this forum? Rather speculative of you, eh? But where did I say I posted here to make my concerns known to Microsoft? It was posted to make YOU aware, dumbass.

The "EXACT" same thing didn't happen with XP. Have you read the XP EULA even? How about the Vista EULA? Fill your puny brain with the facts before you start mouthing off then get back to me.

 

[Gatticus]

And it's been stated quite a few times on here already that this isn't finalized.

Little lesson for you.

The above that you posted is speculation, the below is a fact.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2030003,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

Dwight Silverman, one of the writers for the interviewed Shanen Boettcher of Microsoft about this topic. According to Silverman, Boettcher is "very aware of the concerns over the licensing terms."

Silverman also noted that Boetther said that Microsoft "doesn't plan to back away."

 

[djnes]

Fill your puny brain with the facts before you start mouthing off then get back to me.

How funny are you, that a topic meets with resistance, and all of a sudden you have to resort to flaming. Wow...didn't see that one coming.

You want facts? Head over to Neowin, read through the discussion thread, and read through the links given. The go to several chat sessions regardling licensing with several different MS employees. The answers and information varies, even right from MS employees. As I said several times, I'll take a wait and see approach, since none of this has been finalized.

And, once again, the same "uproar" occured with XP's activation. Never did I said Vista EULA was the same as XP's, right? Manufacturing an argument are we? Comprehension FTW!

 

[TechLarry]

If it's as described, I won't be going near it.

Larry

 

[TechLarry]

Wow, you really missed the point on this one, or you're being sarcastic. Can't tell which

-Larry

I think you are overlooking all the great features that Vista has. Seriouly who cares about some small change to the EULA?

 

[TechLarry]

I've seen the LIcense. It's not talk.

-Larry

please people, this shit wont happen...its all talk. Iv had a few times where I had to call up m$ and get a new key for xp and get it every time. Vista will be the same. They are just talking big talk right now but I bet they will do the same once vista is out for a bit and people start doing upgrades and bitching to them about keys.