Why I won't be buying Vista

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I fully plan to keep XP for all my windows needs....and having to run vista is plain BS. Tell that to the 450 computers at the hospital im working at still runnning a combo of win2k and 98se, and the BSD based servers. Get ur head out of your ass thinking Vista will be shoved down everyones throats. Those times are gone my firend. Most average users I know are running 4 year old boxes. Most have at least 2 and are nowheres near ready for an upgrade. Add in some ridicules agreements, a move by linux etc. And you have a recipe for disaster. Corporate sales arent going to help either. My work buys new computer every time hell freezes over. You wont need DX10 in a corporate environment.

One can argue Average users are going to drive sales anymore. People dont upgrade near as often as they used to..why? No need for it. Procs arent that much faster, GFX cards for the average user are a form of Black Magic. Memory is key and hard drive space. Fast net connections and wireless networks are where its at. OS's and hardware are old fashioned and dont sell. My buddy's parents dropped 1300 on a new laptop. They said there second choice was 900. I said why spend so much more? They said..had built in Wireless. Mind you they didnt own a router or have a broadband connection. See my point?

thank god I run BSD is all I can say. and for you scoffers ...keep your games. Your the same type that MS has by the short and curlies because you have to spend $400 on a new GFX card for DX10...lol. I got dollars to donuts that the "hardcore" computer crowd makes up the largest segment of Vista sales for the first year.
 
Thank God Linux is making great steps towards being a great desktop OS.

I only boot into XP now to play games or VPN in to work. If this Vista EULA is true and means what we think it means, Linux and Apple can only stand to gain from it.
 
Ghettobox said:
I fully plan to keep XP for all my windows needs....and having to run vista is plain BS. Tell that to the 450 computers at the hospital im working at still runnning a combo of win2k and 98se, and the BSD based servers. Get ur head out of your ass thinking Vista will be shoved down everyones throats. Those times are gone my firend. Most average users I know are running 4 year old boxes. Most have at least 2 and are nowheres near ready for an upgrade. Add in some ridicules agreements, a move by linux etc. And you have a recipe for disaster. Corporate sales arent going to help either. My work buys new computer every time hell freezes over. You wont need DX10 in a corporate environment.

One can argue Average users are going to drive sales anymore. People dont upgrade near as often as they used to..why? No need for it. Procs arent that much faster, GFX cards for the average user are a form of Black Magic. Memory is key and hard drive space. Fast net connections and wireless networks are where its at. OS's and hardware are old fashioned and dont sell. My buddy's parents dropped 1300 on a new laptop. They said there second choice was 900. I said why spend so much more? They said..had built in Wireless. Mind you they didnt own a router or have a broadband connection. See my point?

thank god I run BSD is all I can say. and for you scoffers ...keep your games. Your the same type that MS has by the short and curlies because you have to spend $400 on a new GFX card for DX10...lol. I got dollars to donuts that the "hardcore" computer crowd makes up the largest segment of Vista sales for the first year.
Click to expand...

Then give me the $$$ because Vista will be put on every OEM computer and there are millions being sold each year to ppl who doesn't care about this license agreement. The enthusiast market will probably dive or avoid like plague depending on M$ stance on the issue.
 
Child of Wonder said:
Thank God Linux is making great steps towards being a great desktop OS.

I only boot into XP now to play games or VPN in to work. If this Vista EULA is true and means what we think it means, Linux and Apple can only stand to gain from it.
Click to expand...

If this stands (the EULA), then it'll be interesting to see how much Linux gains from it. The same people that will be turned off by this are the ones that can add the most to Linux.
 
compslckr said:
everyone made the same arguements back when xp came out and everyone was like 98/2000 is great for me and i will never buy XP. now everyone runs XP or some form of linux.

if you don't like mirosoft start using linux or buy a mac.

You not buying vista is not going to hurt MS at all since most of their money is made by having the OS installed on oem machines such as dell etc. they don't care about the gamers / hardware enthusiests;
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They don't? Then why is Microsoft touting Vista as a great OS for gamers? You underestimate just how much pull we gamers have. Many people only use Windows because of its game support.
 
nubbin77 said:
Just thought I'd post my 2 cents about a goofy observation from this thread. Saying you are going to MAC is kind of a retarded argument. How many people constantly upgrade and swap out parts in a MAC? Doesn't this typically only affect people that upgrade their hardware on frequent basis (ie more than once per OS refresh)? Which is basically everyone on this forum (myself included). So yes I am pissed because I like keeping my computer up to date and I enjoy the hobby of building new computers. Why would going to MAC be an argument? If you didn't want all this hassle you could avoid it by not upgrading (stupid I know, but that's the basic argument of going to a MAC).
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Yea, good point. Mac is nothing but a flavour of BSD so I wouldn't waste my money on a Mac. Already have a PC with Linux which is close enough to Mac OSX, IMO.
 
nubbin77 said:
Just thought I'd post my 2 cents about a goofy observation from this thread. Saying you are going to MAC is kind of a retarded argument. How many people constantly upgrade and swap out parts in a MAC? Doesn't this typically only affect people that upgrade their hardware on frequent basis (ie more than once per OS refresh)? Which is basically everyone on this forum (myself included). So yes I am pissed because I like keeping my computer up to date and I enjoy the hobby of building new computers. Why would going to MAC be an argument? If you didn't want all this hassle you could avoid it by not upgrading (stupid I know, but that's the basic argument of going to a MAC).
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It's not retarded if you happen to like OS X. You can swap out parts in a MAC if you like, they're not cemented onto the mobo. I don't upgrade nearly as often as I used to and don't game nearly as much as I used to. But upgrading parts or not upgrading parts is not even the point for me for wanting to possibly go to OS X, I happen to like it, that's the point. To each his own.
 
Xilikon said:
Then give me the $$$ because Vista will be put on every OEM computer and there are millions being sold each year to ppl who doesn't care about this license agreement. The enthusiast market will probably dive or avoid like plague depending on M$ stance on the issue.
Click to expand...


Give you the money..hardly. I poo poo ur idea that vista will make any serious onroads in a year. Lets imagine for a moment that average Joe PC buyer gives two shakes of a rats ass about DX10 or Aero. Lets assume, for some reason that you cant possibly begin to prove, Vista is the next big hit. Game producers ( who you have all clearly stated are what drives "average" user sale, and to that premise I can only manage a scoff) are not going to sell out the 100 million plus PC's running xp to sell to the thousands of buyers ov anew OEM pc with vista. You cant have it both ways. the enthusiast market doesnt want Vista..and the average Joe doesnt need it. My local best buy has a single measly row of PC games. They do have about 10 rows of console games though. if the average joe pushes windows through game sales..which isnt the case at all. He must be puttin Nviia and ATI sales thorough the roof. The Average Joe with his integrated vod, piss poor memory and non oc'd Proc cant even begin to push Oblivion...or even Far Cry at a decent resolution if at all. And he is gonna make vista a sales success? Vista is the new ME my firends. The bastard child that isnt wanted by anyone. Xp will run for quite some time..and EA and Blizzard etc will not leave all those boxes behind. Plain and simple. MS may be able to shove around the OEM's who need to put windows on the box....good luck telling EA they have to forget about the XP users and all there boxes out there. What do you think...this is apple? Only apple that draconian group of jack booted thugs would do something like that. Not even MS has that kind of scum running it.


Ghettobox
 
Ghettobox said:
Give you the money..hardly. I poo poo ur idea that vista will make any serious onroads in a year. Lets imagine for a moment that average Joe PC buyer gives two shakes of a rats ass about DX10 or Aero. Lets assume, for some reason that you cant possibly begin to prove, Vista is the next big hit. Game producers ( who you have all clearly stated are what drives "average" user sale, and to that premise I can only manage a scoff) are not going to sell out the 100 million plus PC's running xp to sell to the thousands of buyers ov anew OEM pc with vista. You cant have it both ways. the enthusiast market doesnt want Vista..and the average Joe doesnt need it. My local best buy has a single measly row of PC games. They do have about 10 rows of console games though. if the average joe pushes windows through game sales..which isnt the case at all. He must be puttin Nviia and ATI sales thorough the roof. The Average Joe with his integrated vod, piss poor memory and non oc'd Proc cant even begin to push Oblivion...or even Far Cry at a decent resolution if at all. And he is gonna make vista a sales success? Vista is the new ME my firends. The bastard child that isnt wanted by anyone. Xp will run for quite some time..and EA and Blizzard etc will not leave all those boxes behind. Plain and simple. MS may be able to shove around the OEM's who need to put windows on the box....good luck telling EA they have to forget about the XP users and all there boxes out there. What do you think...this is apple? Only apple that draconian group of jack booted thugs would do something like that. Not even MS has that kind of scum running it.


Ghettobox
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Most of your post didn't make much sense to me, but that's beside the point. How is Vista going to be the next ME?

ME = Overall BAD OS that was rushed onto the market when MS realized that Win2k wasn't going to be their Grand Unifed OS. It was an oh shit we screwed up let's push something to market to capitalize on people wanting something new. It was utter crap. Even people who knew very little about OS's hated it.

Vista = Great OS, very stable (especially for a beta/rc). Vista isn't a stop gap OS that ME was intended to be. It's the next OS version that is supposed to take the place of XP. When ME was being developed, MS was already pushing forward with it's replacement in order to get a unified OS platform. Vista's problem is MS itself. They are becoming too draconian in their efforts to capitalize on it's own hype.
 
So if you get a bad motherboard, bam you have your 1 product transfer when you replace it.

I was on the fence about whether to adopt when it arrived (the pricing is outrageous), but IF this turns out to be true, I'll keep XP. I've built several new "base machines" in the life of my XP, as I upgrade (like many of you) fairly regularly. I've had to call to get new licenses about 5 times I think, but part of that was because I blew a drive transfer (oops) and in that process I think I destroyed the drive twice :(

Anyway it's a foolish thing to add to the EULA. You won't put a dent in the serious hackers copies, but you seriously annoy the common legal end user. Way to go MS...

I'm ever so happy to be overpaying for a half baked OS that's not even really finished, has less than half the features/improvements it was originally slated to have, and now adds this idiotic (be careful, because if you change your hardware you might not be able to use your machine) on top of all of this? Makes me quite uninterested in forking out the cash, that's for sure.
 
I have an idea lets get everyone we know to e-mail Micro$oft and, state we would normally upgrade but, we wont on Vista, due to the fact that we cant change our hardware out without a hassle. Eventually though you will have to go to Vista because of lack of support for it. But most of us will hold out till our XP hits its last dying breath.
 
Joves said:
I have an idea lets get everyone we know to e-mail Micro$oft and, state we would normally upgrade but, we wont on Vista, due to the fact that we cant change our hardware out without a hassle. Eventually though you will have to go to Vista because of lack of support for it. But most of us will hold out till our XP hits its last dying breath.
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Lack of support for what? Honestly how many of us have called MS for support? I never have (I don't count activation). I search their KB, or just use other web resources to find answers for my problems. Hell come 2020 I may still be using XP, supported or not. (okay that was an exaggeration, but my point is clear :) ).
 
Anemone said:
but you seriously annoy the common legal end user. Way to go MS...
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If you all think I'm wrong, fine, but in my opinion the common legal end user most likely has no clue what an EULA is, other than that annoying thing you have to agree to before you can install any software on your machine.

It's been said a thousand times before, but the common legal end user simply buys a new $399.00 computer when thier old one "breaks", they don't replace the dead hardware.

I think we all should have seen this coming when product activation started with XP, and turned into WGA. Did anyone really think it would stop there?
 
I am amused by this thread. The only people who will be affected by it are us, the enthusiasts, who change some random bit of hardware every so often. The avg consumer won't care, and Corporate America .. hell, I'm still running win2k on 6 out of 9 boxes I use here at work (hint - I'm at a Fortune 5 company).

Yeah, it's gonna be a pain in the ass, but I'll bet most of you cave. It's the nature of OS's. I didn't adopt XP until this year. Sad I waited, really. I really like XP.
 
Xilikon said:
Then give me the $$$ because Vista will be put on every OEM computer and there are millions being sold each year to ppl who doesn't care about this license agreement. The enthusiast market will probably dive or avoid like plague depending on M$ stance on the issue.
Click to expand...
In the corporate environment, if I want XP installed by default on a hundred boxes, even once Vista is out, Dell will do it for me, provided it is still within the Microsoft support timeframe (which should be several more years). They did so when we specifically needed some Windows 2000 boxes rather than XP.

So while you're correct for the home user going to Best Buy/Circuit City, in the enterprise, corps/schools/industry will be able to dictate their choice for some time to come. If it gets HP/Dell/whoever a sale, they'll do what they need to do to get it. Also, for those of us who already have a Select 5 license from Microsoft, we'll probably get all our boxes with Vista licenses...then promptly reload them with the Windows XP license we already have. Then we can consider having Vista someday if we wish.

P.S. With Vista pricing, I don't see many people rushing out to buy a copy. I think most sales of Vista will be due to sales of new computers. This is unlike Windows XP, which got plenty of sales both through retail copies/upgrades, and new system sales. Vista's versions are fragmented enough that aside from the basic Home version, I think many will balk at the higher versions' retail prices. The only way I'd even consider Vista is the fact that I should be able to get academic pricing for it as an IT staffer in education, and I myself will be unlikely to consider it until it has been on the market for 6-12 months.
 
mwarps said:
I am amused by this thread. The only people who will be affected by it are us, the enthusiasts, who change some random bit of hardware every so often. The avg consumer won't care, and Corporate America .. hell, I'm still running win2k on 6 out of 9 boxes I use here at work (hint - I'm at a Fortune 5 company).

Yeah, it's gonna be a pain in the ass, but I'll bet most of you cave. It's the nature of OS's. I didn't adopt XP until this year. Sad I waited, really. I really like XP.
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The sad part is that FUD like this thread is exactly what kept you from giving it a go initially, I bet. I remember all the "OMG XP is teh SUX0R!!!one!1!!eleventyone!!!" talk a few years ago, and sometimes people pop up who still cling feverishly to those ridiculous ideas.

When the licensing model changes, people adjust. Some people bitch, and if enough sales are effected, the model alters to allow for more leeway. This happens with all software. It kinda reminds me of people who take loans with outrageous interest and fees, then decide to bitch and complain about those same interests and fees after they've signed the form.
 
Sniviler said:
No DirectX 10 for XP, Would be the only reason to upgrade to vista.

DX10HAX4XP.COM =]
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Exactly, which is kind of dissapointing. I wish Lunix would support dx10. What Msoft is doing is rediculous, Do you even knjow how much crap the whole Licence managment shit will raise? With every hardware upgrade you wil lneed to call them, and with all music and dvd stuff...it is just wow.
 
I hope that these are just unproven rumors at this point. I have had no problems reinstalling my same retail copy of XP at least 5 times. I have never had to call Microsoft for anything.

I simply cannot see Microsoft allowing a limited number of reinstallations of Vista for the individual retail user. Think about it, it would affect the entire market for upgrades and defeat the whole premise of upgrading/changing a PC. People will stop uprgading becasue they do not want to purchase another copy of the OS. Don't you think manufacturers would be strongly opposed to this as well? I do..
 
ivan_gromov said:
Exactly, which is kind of dissapointing. I wish Lunix would support dx10. What Msoft is doing is rediculous, Do you even knjow how much crap the whole Licence managment shit will raise? With every hardware upgrade you wil lneed to call them, and with all music and dvd stuff...it is just wow.
Click to expand...

Its not that linux doesnt support directx but microsoft only making directx available on windows. Its shitty for people who love linux and would like to game. But it makes sense for microsoft, if they push direct3d an, get it so most game devs, use it for windows, and keep it for you operating system, any one who wants to game has to get windows.
 
Does MS still plan to release Vista OEM versions? There is little difference between these two right now.

What happen if I upgrade the motherboard, does that count as a new system?
 
Flyboat said:
Does MS still plan to release Vista OEM versions? There is little difference between these two right now.

What happen if I upgrade the motherboard, does that count as a new system?
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I haven't read completely through the proposed EULA for Vista since I don't have the time. However, as of this moment (for XP OEM) MS defines a new system as replacement of the motherboard.

I also haven't heard any news as to whether or not there will be OEM versions available for the public (e.g. through places like Newegg.com). But I'm willing to bet that there wil be OEM versions for system builders, at the very least through a special system builder program.

Time will only tell though.
 
Why does Microsoft make so many versions of there software. Pay 50% more for Ultimate just for improved GUI effects, really seems kinda retarted but w/e cause if this EULA business does hold(L0L), then I will personally find a way to create a DX10 sandbox in a Linux environment.
 
AMD RULES said:
this is all a bunch of BULL SHIT!
Im stickin with XP for some time.............
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Word has it that MS is gonna kill XP 2 years after the launch of Vista. I think it's just a way of tightening up piracy of Vista, and it will be a case by case thing ,of wether or not they will allow you to continue to use Vista past the 2 time thingy or not. They have NEVER refused to activate ANY XP software,. including USED retail and upgrade software, as long as you state that you are only using it on 1 pc.
 
I'm Confused. (at my age it happens often)

It seems to me Microsoft is making it difficult for the very people that are most likely
to beta test thier new products????

Now I'm sure MS gathers alot of valuable information from beta testers.

So why would they run the risk of losing this "FREE" service?

Hyperdad
 
As I Lay Dying said:
I heard on the macpros the cpus are not changeable, as in like they are cemented in.
Click to expand...

Mac sites have already documented replacing the Woodcrest CPU's in MacPro towers. As for Macbooks, someone has already documented replacing a Core Duo CPU with a Core 2 Duo CPU on the Macbook Pro.

It can be done, with a bit of work...and a willingness to void the warranty.
 
Russell said:
MS EULA said:
15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.
a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may
reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device
becomes the “licensed device.”
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The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.
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.
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The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.

Based on this, it seems likely to me that you can still transfer your original, boxed licence around as you please. MS is still ripping people off, but only those who have upgraded using the Anytime Upgrade software.
Click to expand...

Regardless, of what version one own, 15a specifically states that you can move it once.

As I read it, the only difference between the the 15a and 15B is that the latter restricts you from doing any transfer IF your original license didnt allow for any transfers at all. My guess is that OEM licenses will not allow you to reassign the OS and upgrading it to Vista Ultimate, for example, won't give you the right to xfer it to another computer.
 
Ghettobox said:
Give you the money..hardly. I poo poo ur idea that vista will make any serious onroads in a year. Lets imagine for a moment that average Joe PC buyer gives two shakes of a rats ass about DX10 or Aero. Lets assume, for some reason that you cant possibly begin to prove, Vista is the next big hit. Game producers ( who you have all clearly stated are what drives "average" user sale, and to that premise I can only manage a scoff) are not going to sell out the 100 million plus PC's running xp to sell to the thousands of buyers ov anew OEM pc with vista. You cant have it both ways. the enthusiast market doesnt want Vista..and the average Joe doesnt need it. My local best buy has a single measly row of PC games. They do have about 10 rows of console games though. if the average joe pushes windows through game sales..which isnt the case at all. He must be puttin Nviia and ATI sales thorough the roof. The Average Joe with his integrated vod, piss poor memory and non oc'd Proc cant even begin to push Oblivion...or even Far Cry at a decent resolution if at all. And he is gonna make vista a sales success? Vista is the new ME my firends. The bastard child that isnt wanted by anyone. Xp will run for quite some time..and EA and Blizzard etc will not leave all those boxes behind. Plain and simple. MS may be able to shove around the OEM's who need to put windows on the box....good luck telling EA they have to forget about the XP users and all there boxes out there. What do you think...this is apple? Only apple that draconian group of jack booted thugs would do something like that. Not even MS has that kind of scum running it.


Ghettobox
Click to expand...


This is just a silly statement. The average person that buys a new system will get a copy of Vista on their PC, so it will be adopted. I don't get the entire ME comparison, given that virtually everone who's run RC1 and RC2 think's the OS is good.

You're right that they can't force EA to stop supporting DX9, but the DX10 versions of their games will look better. Eventually gamers will upgrade within 2 years (and much sooner if games like Crysis look much better on DX10).

Personally, I'll stick with XP as long as possible, but I mostly play EQ and occasoinally Far Cry and have no intention of changing video cards, much less buying a high end dx10 card, anytime soon.
 
As I Lay Dying said:
I heard on the macpros the cpus are not changeable, as in like they are cemented in.
Click to expand...

I haven't owned a MAC in years so I wouldn't know. I know you can upgrade PCI, PCI-E devices, hard drives, memory, etc... If I get a Power Mac G5 I think I can live with the CPU for years. I wouldn't be buying it to constantly upgrade it. My computer needs have changed alot over the years.

I'm not looking to debate MAC and PC in this thread since this is ungermane to the thread topic. I actually think Vista looks great, I want to wait until it comes out and see what it's about, so i'm not sure what i'm doing. As I mentioned I really like OS X also. Knowing me I'll probably wind up buying both.
 
If the game dev's make games for the ps3, it'll be opengl, so no dx10 for pc ports... :confused:
 
GreNME said:
The sad part is that FUD like this thread is exactly what kept you from giving it a go initially, I bet. I remember all the "OMG XP is teh SUX0R!!!one!1!!eleventyone!!!" talk a few years ago, and sometimes people pop up who still cling feverishly to those ridiculous ideas.

When the licensing model changes, people adjust. Some people bitch, and if enough sales are effected, the model alters to allow for more leeway. This happens with all software. It kinda reminds me of people who take loans with outrageous interest and fees, then decide to bitch and complain about those same interests and fees after they've signed the form.
Click to expand...
I didn't bitch about XP, in fact, I bought it during the first week of release. Now, tell me again, why I'm bitching about Vista. Answer: because I have a valid issue with the license!
 
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