Why I won't be buying Vista

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People, people. Did any of you decide to actually read the licence? I did, and here's my take. First, I quote what ZD conveniently omitted (probably because it was contrary to their story):


15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.
a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may
reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device
becomes the “licensed device.”
b. Windows Anytime Upgrade Software. The first user of the software may reassign the
license to another device one time, but only if the license terms of the software you upgraded
from allows reassignment.
Click to expand...

Note that it refers to software that have been updated using the Windows Anytime Upgrade Software, which (if you have been keeping track of Vista news) you would recall is the software that allows you to upgrade, say, Vista Home Basic to Premium or Ultimate without a reinstall, simply using a credit card and some MS server.

What it's saying here is that if you have updated to a new version, you have one transfer of it. After that you may not transfer that newly added OS upgrade to any newer systems. I'm sure you can still move your copy of Home Basic around as you have the hard copy, but the virtual add-on is at that point untransferable (and when you do transfer the Home Basic to a new PC, you obviously lose the Ultimate you have on the old PC because the Basic licence moved.

The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.

Based on this, it seems likely to me that you can still transfer your original, boxed licence around as you please. MS is still ripping people off, but only those who have upgraded using the Anytime Upgrade software.
 
Russell said:
People, people. Did any of you decide to actually read the licence? I did, and here's my take. First, I quote what ZD conveniently omitted (probably because it was contrary to their story):




Note that it refers to software that have been updated using the Windows Anytime Upgrade Software, which (if you have been keeping track of Vista news) you would recall is the software that allows you to upgrade, say, Vista Home Basic to Premium or Ultimate without a reinstall, simply using a credit card and some MS server.

What it's saying here is that if you have updated to a new version, you have one transfer of it. After that you may not transfer that newly added OS upgrade to any newer systems. I'm sure you can still move your copy of Home Basic around as you have the hard copy, but the virtual add-on is at that point untransferable (and when you do transfer the Home Basic to a new PC, you obviously lose the Ultimate you have on the old PC because the Basic licence moved.

The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.
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This makes more business sense. However, if I activate my OS, how does MS know I am not using WIndow anytime upgrade? IMO, the only way to do it is to have me calling them for second activation.
 
"I just hope Linux makes some good leaps and bounds that games become eaiser to install and run under it so there will be eventually no need for MS at all after this."

Not ever going to happen. Just remember, Linux isn't Linux. It's a whole bunch of disparate operating systems made by a bunch of people who based their OS on linux. For those people who like using applications and not spending time hacking your OS from a command line it means that Linux is not a real alternative.

I'm not surprised that MS is forcing DX10 on Vista. There really is NO reason to upgrade to it. People use XP not because it is XP, but because it runs their applications. XP itself, after all, only presented pretty fonts and fast boot time as improvements over 2k. Vista doesn't even offer that.
 
Flyboat said:
This makes more business sense. However, if I activate my OS, how does MS know I am not using WIndow anytime upgrade? IMO, the only way to do it is to have me calling them for second activation.
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From my understanding, MS Anytime upgrade is a downloadable package that updates your system after a lower version of Vista is already installed. The upgrade installer can probably connect to a database to see how many machines it's been installed on. You won't have to use a key to install it, or if you do, it'll be a specialized key that's algorithmically different from a regular product key for the retail version of itself.


After reading those terms a couple times at the top of this page, I believe it's covering all versions. You can transfer both Vista boxed OS, and Vista Antyime Upgrade one time, but if you've already transferred Vista boxed OS before you purchased an Anytime Upgrade you cannot transfer the Anytime Upgrade because the base OS no longer has any transfers left. Still saying you can only transfer Vista one time whether its been upgraded or not.
 
ryan_975 said:
From my understanding, MS Anytime upgrade is a downloadable package that updates your system after a lower version of Vista is already installed. The upgrade installer can probably connect to a database to see how many machines it's been installed on. You won't have to use a key to install it, or if you do, it'll be a specialized key that's algorithmically different from a regular product key for the retail version of itself.


After reading those terms a couple times at the top of this page, I believe it's covering all versions. You can transfer both Vista boxed OS, and Vista Antyime Upgrade one time, but if you've already transferred Vista boxed OS before you purchased an Anytime Upgrade you cannot transfer the Anytime Upgrade because the base OS no longer has any transfers left. Still saying you can only transfer Vista one time whether its been upgraded or not.
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That sucks. Perhaps the monthly subscription fee for a MS OS is not a rumor. They may implement it for vista sp1 or next os.

I think it is time for me to learn linux.


blank said:
so what, just use a volume license
Click to expand...

You can't get it to activate
 
You are all wrong. You are all Microsoft's BITCH and will be using Vista asap when it's the only OS you can run that future game on and you know it!

Seriously though, I'm personally not worried about it. They have to take that hardline on paper. Look how abused the XP activation process is. I've seen hundreds of circumstances where people activated XP in perfectly illegal circumstances per the EULA. I'm sure it'll be just like with XP. Hard in EULA, soft in practice.
 
and if Microsoft actually tries to emplement this I'll speed up my Linux learning rate.
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Perfectly said...

I've had enough problems with XP product activation on a legitimate copy of XP SP2. I know it's easy to call and get a new key, but why should I have to explain myself to some M$ employee everytime I add/remove some piece of hardware in my machine. It's just not worth it anymore. M$ can keep the bloatware known as Vista and I'll keep my wallet a bit fatter.
 
blank said:
so what, just use a volume license
Click to expand...

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=26

For those who’ve yet to hear about it, Volume Activation is a new digital-license activation technology aimed at businesses. It’s part of the larger “Software Protection Platform” that Microsoft is constructing to combat piracy.

In short, Microsoft is not going to allow enterprises to operate on an honor system, when it comes to proving how many copies of Windows they’ve paid to license. Just like it does with individual Windows users, Microsoft is going to start requiring companies to authenticate their new versions of Windows within 30 days of installing.
Click to expand...
 
As I Lay Dying said:
gah..........ummm......brings up an interesting point you buy vista ultimate, you upgrade vista says nah uh, would then using a pirated version of vista be a legitimate form of protest against what to me is a completely unfair eula? I only say this because for example if dx10 is vista only, and you like to game it seems like you are being forced into buying vista if you want to take advantage of the features that you paid for, and seeing how, directx will never be on apple or linux, being forced to buy and os and then having to agree to an unfair clause of the eula.

BTW I am not advocating piracy, or justifying it, I am just asking if a legitimate customer who purchases vista, and then is shafted by this, if them then using a pirated version of vista, is legit form of protest against an unfair eula, so they can use an OS they paid for.
Click to expand...

I think a legitimate form of protest would be going back to DOS 6.22 :)
 
Robstar said:
I think a legitimate form of protest would be going back to DOS 6.22 :)
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How about next tme you go to buy an OS, just buy XP. and never have to buy it again. MS will see that Vista is flopping and revise their throat cutting policy.
 
ryan_975 said:
How about next tme you go to buy an OS, just buy XP. and never have to buy it again. MS will see that Vista is flopping and revise their throat cutting policy.
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What do you think will happen when XP is EOL'd ? Do you think microsoft will be doing any activations? How many people do you know still use EOL'd os's ?

Rob
 
Robstar said:
What do you think will happen when XP is EOL'd ? Do you think microsoft will be doing any activations? How many people do you know still use EOL'd os's ?

Rob
Click to expand...

A better question is how many time has MS extended EOL for old versions of Windows in the past because there were a great many people still using them?

Besides if I remember correctly, XP's EOL date isn't until 2010.

The whole reason I said stick with buying XP, is because XP runs nearly everything that's out there now. DOS 6.22 doesn't. Like many have said before the ONLY real thing Vista has going for it is DX10, which will most likely be back ported to XP in some crippled fashion.
 
Russell said:
The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.
Click to expand...
O RLY?
15. REASSIGN TO ANOTHER DEVICE.
a. Software Other than Windows Anytime Upgrade. The first user of the software may
reassign the license to another device one time. If you reassign the license, that other device
becomes the “licensed device.”
Click to expand...
 
general said:
There really is NO reason to upgrade to it. People use XP not because it is XP, but because it runs their applications. XP itself, after all, only presented pretty fonts and fast boot time as improvements over 2k. Vista doesn't even offer that.
Click to expand...

You, sir, win my internets.
 
Russell said:
People, people. Did any of you decide to actually read the licence? I did, and here's my take. First, I quote what ZD conveniently omitted (probably because it was contrary to their story):




Note that it refers to software that have been updated using the Windows Anytime Upgrade Software, which (if you have been keeping track of Vista news) you would recall is the software that allows you to upgrade, say, Vista Home Basic to Premium or Ultimate without a reinstall, simply using a credit card and some MS server.

What it's saying here is that if you have updated to a new version, you have one transfer of it. After that you may not transfer that newly added OS upgrade to any newer systems. I'm sure you can still move your copy of Home Basic around as you have the hard copy, but the virtual add-on is at that point untransferable (and when you do transfer the Home Basic to a new PC, you obviously lose the Ultimate you have on the old PC because the Basic licence moved.

The 'software other than' section (which is section a) simply refers to versions of Windows that have not undergone a 'Anytime Upgrade'. That would be your standard Vista Home Basic you have the box for. Note that it says you can transfer it, but places no limits upon said transfering.

Based on this, it seems likely to me that you can still transfer your original, boxed licence around as you please. MS is still ripping people off, but only those who have upgraded using the Anytime Upgrade software.
Click to expand...

AND you have just backed up everyones rant!!!
GO YOU!!!

if you go for the online upgrade to "enhance" your copy of Vista you should be entitled to re-installed/re-activate as many times as needs be

Shit I have had to re-activate XP due to a Mobo BIOS update, so what you are saying is IF I was brain dead enough to buy Vista, and then stupid enough to go for the online "expansion" IF I change say... GFX card I will need to re-activate STRIKE 2 and Gosh BIOS update YOUR OUT!

Fuck that, the EU will rip MS a new one if this comes anywere near Europe
 
Who cares about anything Microsoft does? Their software will get cracked anyway and everyone will be happy.
 
This whole thing seems confusing. I started with Windows then went to Mac for several years then back to Windows. I may switch back to Mac again...which I wanted to do for a while now anyway regardless..mainly because I like OS X. For games i'll buy a PS3.
 
Seelenlos said:
Seems to me your trying to say there is no limits, yet the section you refer to states there is a one time limit.
Click to expand...

You're thinking of the wrong person.

This is what I posted.

ryan_975 said:
From my understanding, MS Anytime upgrade is a downloadable package that updates your system after a lower version of Vista is already installed. The upgrade installer can probably connect to a database to see how many machines it's been installed on. You won't have to use a key to install it, or if you do, it'll be a specialized key that's algorithmically different from a regular product key for the retail version of itself.


After reading those terms a couple times at the top of this page, I believe it's covering all versions. You can transfer both Vista boxed OS, and Vista Antyime Upgrade one time, but if you've already transferred Vista boxed OS before you purchased an Anytime Upgrade you cannot transfer the Anytime Upgrade because the base OS no longer has any transfers left. Still saying you can only transfer Vista one time whether its been upgraded or not.
Click to expand...
 
It's policies like this that are a major promoter of piracy of software. Thus microsoft itself is indirectly promoting piracy of their own products.

But this won't matter much to me, since my fiance' works for MS. I can get a Vista Ultimate retail for $35 :p :D
 
Knowing this and studied the whole license agreement, I believe it's more smarter to buy a OEM copy which already has a limit of 1 license per built PC. Since basically anyone who build his own computer can buy a system builder version of OEM for more than 50% off the price seen for retail versions. Then buy a new one each time you upgrade.

No sane people will buy a retail version with a stupid high price tag and be limited to 1 original computer + 1 transfer. The difference is often double of a OEM so basically, you are paying for 2 OEM licences in 1 package :rolleyes:
 
If this is true, M$ will soon be in many courts around the world trying to defend it..
I don't think that this is going to fly.
 
Lol, you guys are all overreacting. This will most likely not effect you one way or another. how many of you plan on buying home basic an upgrading? I know i sure dont.
 
tskiller said:
Lol, you guys are all overreacting. This will most likely not effect you one way or another. how many of you plan on buying home basic an upgrading? I know i sure dont.
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I was under the impression that this pertained to ALL versions of Vista
 
I duely note that I neglected to read the "one time" mentioned under the non upgrade section. So that sort of changes everything I said back to the "OMG MICROSOFT WTF" stance.

I still think that while MS *may* put this in their final EULA, I doubt they'd be stupid enough to enforce in the actual code and/or activation process. I'm still rather concerned about this though.
 
nilepez said:
Well that's enough for me. I was all set to buy next year, but I'll stick with XP now.
Click to expand...

When you think about things like HDCP requirements to view hi-def video, and no more Directsound3d hardware acceleration (= Creative EAX no longer working in games, no CPU usage drops from cards that support these features in current games under XP), it becomes more and more likely for me that XP is the way to go.

I'm beta-testing RC2 on a secondary box (P4 2.8GHz, 768MB RAM, AIW-9700, 120GB HDD) and it runs reasonably (better than reasonably if Aero Glass is turned off), and it looks cool, but I don't see any super-compelling reason to upgrade; what can Vista do that someone with tech knowledge can't do now?
 
Maybe this is something they will only hold against corporate or multi volume license users, and not to single license users, but are to lazy to state it in the eula, mayhaps.

I just clicked the above link and I realized xp also had a clause of only file and printer sharing with 5 devices over a network, but in university dorms, where there are hundreds of computers on the same network, and people shared files over the network, so I imagine if MS is serious about enforcing every aspect of the EULA, then they would be at these dorms, preventing people from sharing on these networks. This maybe gives me hope this is something they don't enforce ........ hope is the key word here.
 
LoneWolf said:
When you think about things like HDCP requirements to view hi-def video, and no more Directsound3d hardware acceleration (= Creative EAX no longer working in games, no CPU usage drops from cards that support these features in current games under XP), it becomes more and more likely for me that XP is the way to go.

I'm beta-testing RC2 on a secondary box (P4 2.8GHz, 768MB RAM, AIW-9700, 120GB HDD) and it runs reasonably (better than reasonably if Aero Glass is turned off), and it looks cool, but I don't see any super-compelling reason to upgrade; what can Vista do that someone with tech knowledge can't do now?
Click to expand...

HDCP is not required for HD content. It's just supported by Vista for content that does requrie it. While it's true that there will be no more hardware accelleation, CL's EAX does not use DirectSound for it's effects, but it's drivers. so it won't be affected per se. http://www.openal.com/openal_vista.html
 
everyone made the same arguements back when xp came out and everyone was like 98/2000 is great for me and i will never buy XP. now everyone runs XP or some form of linux.

if you don't like mirosoft start using linux or buy a mac.

You not buying vista is not going to hurt MS at all since most of their money is made by having the OS installed on oem machines such as dell etc. they don't care about the gamers / hardware enthusiests; and if you think about it, you are building a new rig for $1000+ to stay on top of the latest hardware but you cant afford a $150 piece of software?

just buy vista when you build a new computer or buy a mac / use linux.

/thread

**Admin Edit**
We strongly discourage the use of STFU or any message of that nature, simply because it is rude. All members have the right to voice their opinion.....that is why this is called a forum.
 
Just thought I'd post my 2 cents about a goofy observation from this thread. Saying you are going to MAC is kind of a retarded argument. How many people constantly upgrade and swap out parts in a MAC? Doesn't this typically only affect people that upgrade their hardware on frequent basis (ie more than once per OS refresh)? Which is basically everyone on this forum (myself included). So yes I am pissed because I like keeping my computer up to date and I enjoy the hobby of building new computers. Why would going to MAC be an argument? If you didn't want all this hassle you could avoid it by not upgrading (stupid I know, but that's the basic argument of going to a MAC).
 
The difference between the XP activation arguments of old, and the Vista restricted license of today is that MS is requiring you to buy a new OS and replace a perfectly working one with the exact same thing. That's like already owning an X1950XTX and ATI requiring you to purchase another one if you upgrade your CPU. Why should we be forced to purchase something we've already bought. There's no change, no upgrade, no enhancement. That's the whole point of upgrading hardware, We go out and spend $1,000 on hardware that IS BETTER than what we already have. Re-buying an OS that is exactly the same is counter productive to our interests, we'll get no performance gains over the invalidated OS from the new one.
 
compslckr said:
and if you think about it, you are building a new rig for $1000+ to stay on top of the latest hardware but you cant afford a $150 piece of software?
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Indeed, this must be the reason why people are not shopping around for better deals on hardware, looking for coupons or usinf Fatwallet. After all, what is a 15+% price difference between friends, right?

But I agree, I should be looking at Linux.
ryan_975 said:
The difference between the XP activation arguments of old, and the Vista restricted license of today is that MS is requiring you to buy a new OS and replace a perfectly working one with the exact same thing. That's like already owning an X1950XTX and ATI requiring you to purchase another one if you upgrade your CPU. Why should we be forced to purchase something we've already bought. There's no change, no upgrade, no enhancement. That's the whole point of upgrading hardware, We go out and spend $1,000 on hardware that IS BETTER than what we already have. Re-buying an OS that is exactly the same is counter productive to our interests, we'll get no performance gains over the invalidated OS from the new one.
Click to expand...

and Ryan is touching on the other point: Do you have to buy Half Life 2 everytime you upgrade your video card or buy a new HDD?
 
comslckr, next time, think 7 times and read the agreement from top to bottom before posting comments. If you believe that we should pay 150$ - 500$ (that's what it cost for a ultimate version) for a OS Licence each time you decide to upgrade twice, then you are truly rich or retarded.

The real affected community is the enthusiasts who love to upgrade computers on a regular basis. Personnally, I don't upgrade as often as others, but if the OS is around for 5 years, that is already 2-3 upgrade in each computer with the potential to require a new activation (no necessary to be just the motherboard if we learn to know how M$ define them).

Granted, those who buy a computer and forget about it for a few years like joe sixpacks, or use OEM computers (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc...) are not concerned about this.
 
Gavv said:
I won't be buying Vista either. I just hope Linux makes some good leaps and bounds that games become eaiser to install and run under it so there will be eventually no need for MS at all after this. Guess I'll have to wait though and see if they actually put this in or back out of it at the last minute when they finally hear that pop of their head coming out of their ass.
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crossover office is looking pretty good.
 
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