Where are the 8K Monitors?

How close do you guys sit to your screens? Comparing them to phones seems a bit mad. Phones are always held close in comparison.
It is all about distance-screen ratio, i.e. pixel per angle or something of the sort, 42 inch or 52 inch very wide monitor on a computer desk could be quite big for the distance (when you compare with a 65 inch tv in a standard living room)

Phone are close but small screen, but I can imagine often get similar to cinema screen size with how close you hold them.
 
It's all relative.

The human central viewing angle is 60 to 50 degrees

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https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/

At the human central viewing angle of 60 to 50 degrees, every 8k screen of any size gets around 127 to 154 PPD.
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At the human central viewing angle of 60 to 50 degrees, every 4k screen of any size gets around 64 to 77 PPD.
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At the human central viewing angle of 60 to 50 degrees, every 2560x1440 screen of any size gets only 43 PPD to 51 PPD.
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At the human central viewing angle of 60 to 50 degrees, every 1920x1080 screen of any size gets only 20 PPD to 25 PPD

. . . .


So 16k would be 254 to 308 ppd which probably wouldn't need much if any text-ss and graphics-aa methods of masking how big the pixel structure really is. And the 2d desktop's graphics and images would finally be fine enough for little to no pixelization since they typically don't get any masking of their pixel structure like text and 3d game graphics do. 8k would be a welcome improvement though.

Say you are viewing a samsung s20+ phone from 12 inches away to watch a video up fairly close without it being right at your face. That phone is 3200x1440. For the sake of argument let's say it's 6.7inch display. That would be a 30 degree viewing angle (spanning half of your central viewing angle in the middle of your FoV) and would result in around 112 PPD. Holding it any closer would be lower PPD.

Iphone 12 pro max is 2778 × 1284 at 6.1 inch so would get a similar 98 PPD or so at 12 inch view distance. Regular 12 pro would get around 90 PPD. Iphone pro max 14 is 2796x1290 at 6.1 inches so it still around 108 ppd at 12 inch view distance.
 
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How close do you guys sit to your screens? Comparing them to phones seems a bit mad. Phones are always held close in comparison.
Usually around 2 - 2 1/2 feet, 3' at most. If I moved my keyboard out of the tray and on top of my desk again I'd be around 1 1/2 to 2'. That's not much farther than I keep a phone or other handheld display.
 
How close do you guys sit to your screens? Comparing them to phones seems a bit mad. Phones are always held close in comparison.
1 - 1.3m or 3.2 - 4.3 feet on 27" 4K without scale.
It is at times too much in some programs with already tiny UI elements but I never force my eyes to focus better and keep them relaxed so my brain/eyes has to improve to keep up and somehow eyes keep improving.

Even from these distances I can see fonts are made from pixels so we are to the same issue I had with normal density monitors...
More desk space I do not need so I guess 200% scale at 32" 8K would be sweet spot. Some programs still overdo small fonts and other programs which do not scale would look good integer scaled. Already using grayscale font rendering.
 
https://tftcentral.co.uk/articles/a...rds-cables-and-areas-of-confusion-and-concern
Full Display port 2.1 should provide:
  • One 16K (15360×8460) display @60Hz and 30 bpp (210-bit) 4:4:4 HDR (with DSC)
Even new AMD radeon Pro card does not support DP 2.1 fully yet too.

Maybe it appears as 4 8k monitor, with 4 entry that can be used at the same time.
In the video they explained it uses an 8k source and does "AI upscaling" to 16k.

It's just a prototype and probably can't even use a 16k signal.
 


since this is available, why isn't it available as a monitor? is it because of the lack of 4:4:4 on text display?
 


since this is available, why isn't it available as a monitor? is it because of the lack of 4:4:4 on text display?

Because it starts at 65 inches. As a flat TV, it would be pretty unwieldy to use as a monitor.

The 55", curved Samsung ARK with 8K resolution would be pretty great, but Samsung at least at this point doesn't make one.
 
Because it starts at 65 inches. As a flat TV, it would be pretty unwieldy to use as a monitor.

The 55", curved Samsung ARK with 8K resolution would be pretty great, but Samsung at least at this point doesn't make one.

Having had one (65" QN900B) on my desk for about a month now and it is actually much better than I imagined it to be. Previous setup was a dual OLED 42" C2 4K and before that I've used 55" and 65" (4K) on the desk as well so I am probably more used to big daddy screens than most though :) 55" would just be to small without scaling unless you have REALLY good eye sight.

Now, if you are not a screen real estate junkie like myself, there is of course other advantages to having a really high resolution even if you have to enable scaling.
 
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since this is available, why isn't it available as a monitor? is it because of the lack of 4:4:4 on text display?

It supports 8K@60hz@4:4:4. Not att higher refresh rates though but that is probably a limitation of HDMI 2.1 rather than the TV itself I would imagine.
 
Having had one (65" QN900B) on my desk for about a month now and it is actually much better than I imagined it to be. Previous setup was a dual OLED 42" C2 4K and before that I've used 55" and 65" (4K) on the desk as well so I am probably more used to big daddy screens than most though :) 55" would just be to small without scaling unless you have REALLY good eye sight.

Now, if you are not a screen real estate junkie like myself, there is of course other advantages to having a really high resolution even if you have to enable scaling.
For me 4K 48" was already too large at 1m viewing distance and at the same time could have been sharper.

I could entertain a 55" 8K curved display as the curvature mitigates some of the problems of such a large device.
 
For me 4K 48" was already too large at 1m viewing distance and at the same time could have been sharper.

I could entertain a 55" 8K curved display as the curvature mitigates some of the problems of such a large device.
You have to consider this more of a multi monitor replacement and remember that 8K is 4 times the number of pixels compared to 4K. My QN900B 65" is much sharper than my 42" 4Ks. If I recall correctly, it has higher PPI than a 27" QHD. The biggest drawback by far, besides not being an OLED and what that means for PQ, is that it can't due GPU scaling above 60 hz.
 
A problem with curved screens, that it seems people tend to forget, is that even though the curve makes the screen narrower, it also makes it a lot deeper. This in turn would mean that the sides of a curved screen in lets say 55" would be at a worse viewing angle compare to a flat 55". For something like a flight sim that might not be a problem, but if you actually intend to use the entire area for something like work, it would.
 
Having had one (65" QN900B) on my desk for about a month now and it is actually much better than I imagined it to be. Previous setup was a dual OLED 42" C2 4K and before that I've used 55" and 65" (4K) on the desk as well so I am probably more used to big daddy screens than most though :) 55" would just be to small without scaling unless you have REALLY good eye sight.

Now, if you are not a screen real estate junkie like myself, there is of course other advantages to having a really high resolution even if you have to enable scaling.
But the Samsung 65" QN900B resolution is not 7680x4320, so it's not really 8K

anyhow, did you ever post a photo of your setup?
 
A problem with curved screens, that it seems people tend to forget, is that even though the curve makes the screen narrower, it also makes it a lot deeper. This in turn would mean that the sides of a curved screen in lets say 55" would be at a worse viewing angle compare to a flat 55". For something like a flight sim that might not be a problem, but if you actually intend to use the entire area for something like work, it would.

With a suitably large screen vs. the radius of the curve you could sit at the center of the circle the curve would be a segment of. The radius of the curve taken as the focal point as if it were a lens. At that distance relationship all points on the screen surface are equidistant from your eyes and all of the pixels are oriented pointing directly at your eyeballs. To use the way you framed it, every pixel would be measurably just as "deep".



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That should have the least distortion. The problem is most curves vs screen sizes are not suitable to sit at the focal point with the screen being mounted on a desk at nearer desk distances.

For example,
1000R = 1000mm ~> 40 inch radius or focal point.
So people using a 1000R screen mounted on a desk are sitting well inside of that, with the focal point of the screen and all of the pixels pointed at a considerable distance behind them.

Even if they did sit far enough away (with screen decoupled from a desk at distance) to be close to that 40 inch focal point, most curved screens are far too short physically to do that without losing the perceived height of the screen and turning an ultrawide into a short belt like screen. I think a 55" 8k at 40inch view distance on a rail spine floor stand would be great though.

Think of the pixels on the screen like small laser pointers. In a room with a fog machine you'd see the shafts of laser light. When sitting at the focal point of the curve, all of the lasers would be on axis to you and pointed directly at you so that for the most part you'd be seeing the points of light. The nearer you sat than that, the more you'd see the shafts of the light beams more sidelong. From your nearer position, the farther the pixels were from center of the screen, the more of the side of the laser beams you'd see. In a graduated fashion the pixels would be more and more off axis the farther they were away from the center and towards the outer ends of the screen. This will make the screen distorted.


The far ends of the screen would also be pushed into your periphery and the nearer you sat the lower your PPD would drop which could be an issue (or downgrade) as well depending on the screen's size+rez. Having a screen wide enough/long enough for some of it to be in your periphery isn't a bad thing for immersion, especially for driving or flight games, but that focal point as basis for view distance is imo critical and should be the basis for screen designs dimensions wise.

So theoretically curved screens can be more uniform than flat ones and in that orientation where you can see the whole screen at once in your central viewing angle. (Someone could also theoretically design a screen that is a larger segment of said circle size/more degrees for more immersion where more of the screen width would be in your periphery, outside of your central human viewing angle of 60 to 50 degrees even when sitting at the focal point of the screen's curvature). It’s unfortunately the case that the screen sizes are too small vs the aggressiveness of the curves . . vs the size of the circle you'd be sitting in the center of essentially. So people end up sitting much nearer with the focal point well behind them.


Flat screens comment- "I feel like the edges are bent outwards (I know they're not) but my eyes are picky now that they have been spoiled with a curved display. "

They are definitely off axis which isn't optimal and it also makes uniformity issues a larger area and more obvious on VA and OLED screens. The edges of the screen are off axis as much as if you were viewing the screen from an equivalent distance outside of it.


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Made even larger when sitting at sub-optimal nearer view distances. Larger the nearer you sit, as the degrees of area beyond the middle 50 to 60 degrees grows since your viewing angle is larger in degrees. It's also a larger area outside of your viewpoint so results in a lot more eye darting and to larger distances ~ larger "eye fatigue zone".


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With curved screens, at least when sitting at the R value distance (e.g. 1000R = 1000mm= ~ 39.5" view distance), you'll be equidistant from every point on the screen surface with them angled directly at you like the focal point of a lens.


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The solid blue is the 1000R viewpoint, the transparent field is when sitting nearer. There is some wiggle room like the first example but the 2nd example is poor imo.


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A problem with curved screens, that it seems people tend to forget, is that even though the curve makes the screen narrower, it also makes it a lot deeper. This in turn would mean that the sides of a curved screen in lets say 55" would be at a worse viewing angle compare to a flat 55". For something like a flight sim that might not be a problem, but if you actually intend to use the entire area for something like work, it would.
Yep, the depth of these screens would be an issue for me definitely.

Some work also requires straight lines. A big reason I have avoided curved panels so far. I prefer the edges of the screen to not be pointing directly at me if it means my work isn't being distorted by a curve.

Some of these displays are also getting so big in the vertical sense that the curve would need to be both horizontal and vertical to be used as a curved monitor close up. A dome. Not really liking that idea honestly.
 
https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/qled-tv/qn700b-55-inch-neo-qled-8k-smart-tv-qe55qn700btxxu/

it's useless. The refresh rate is only 50Hz, but you are right on the resolution. I did mix it up w/ some lower resolution screen
If a TV in the UK is spec'd for 50Hz it just means it'll accept the UK 50Hz broadcasts. Every TV I've seen here with 50 on the spec sheet can do at least 60 in reality. The only real 50Hz TVs I've ever had were ancient PAL CRTs.

It's incredibly misleading and confusing but it's safe to ignore the 50Hz and assume 60.
 
the link you provide doesn't have any specification. But you're right, I just notice the search engine found the wrong model. here's the right one and it doesn't say what the freq. is

https://www.samsung.com/uk/tvs/qled-tv/qn900b-65-inch-neo-qled-8k-smart-tv-qe65qn900btxxu/
The refresh rate is mentioned multiple times in the Rings article. Please note however that it seems like it is only 120 Hz in EU/UK for some strange reason and not 144 Hz.

To make things even more complicated, I think there is a 4K version in the UK with a very similar name.

Glad we could agree that the one I have is a 8K 120 Hz+ TV :)
 
Also in the meantime, on larger 8k screens in addition to running AI upscaling/frame amplification to 8k rez . . you could optionally run 4k native 1:1 pixel, 5k, 6k, or 32:10 and 21:10 resolutions 1:1 pixel and still have appreciably large screen space in your FoV.
This was my idea as well. Sadly, at least my QN900B has undefetable scaling it seems that I have not found a way to disable. This mostly affect gaming though, and the kind where you would want a smaller game window, in my case mostly games like CS GO etc.Of course you can kind of solve it by going down even further in resolution. This is really my main gripe with the QN900B for usage as a PC monitor, for desktop use I just run it in 8K so no problem there.

Hopefully, we will see other 8Ks in the future that has this possibility, as it should really just be a matter of an on/off switch I guess to no use scaling.
 
So, is anyone besides me actually using a 8K monitor currently and if so, which one? Not really sure what realistic options there are besides the 8K Samsung TVs which of course are astonishing expensive. I got my QN900B 65" when Samsung had a crazy sale and it was the same price as the Neo G8 but I don't see myself ponying up the expected retail price and I am a monitor nerd and also a power user with LOTS of windows at the same time.
 
The Macbook Pro with Retina Display was released over 10 years ago with a 15", 2880x1800 panel. Obviously, it was never intended to be used at 100% scaling, but rather to make text and the UI render beautifully.

For a long time, Windows did not have good resolution scaling, but now it's quite serviceable. Why must Windows users continue to be stuck with non "retina" displays? I don't have any desire to game at 8K, but I would LOVE it if I could use the regular desktop at 8K with 200% scaling. Just about everyone today has a "retina" display phone... surely people can see the quality difference.

The Dell 8K was absolutely gorgeous. Shame it's still the only one and stuck at 60hz w/ the janky dual cable setup.

Here's to hoping that LG will roll out 8K to the rest of their OLED sizes in the next few years.
 
So, is anyone besides me actually using a 8K monitor currently and if so, which one? Not really sure what realistic options there are besides the 8K Samsung TVs which of course are astonishing expensive. I got my QN900B 65" when Samsung had a crazy sale and it was the same price as the Neo G8 but I don't see myself ponying up the expected retail price and I am a monitor nerd and also a power user with LOTS of windows at the same time.
the thing is, 65" is too big, I'm in the camp of 48" at 8K for desk space. Now, in the future, if we make those retractable transparent OLED, that the whole screen can fold down in a box, then I can use something bigger. But that gadget only comes in 4K and expensive as hell
 
the thing is, 65" is too big, I'm in the camp of 48" at 8K for desk space. Now, in the future, if we make those retractable transparent OLED, that the whole screen can fold down in a box, then I can use something bigger. But that gadget only comes in 4K and expensive as hell
65" is to big if you think of it as a single monitor, but not if the alternative is multiple monitors that would take up more space but provide lower resolution with bezels dividing them. Of course, having 8K or higher to use with scaling might have other advantages even though more screen real estate isn't one of them.
 
42", 48", 55", 65" are all too big for mounting directly on a desk as a central viewing angle media and gaming screen space (full screen, and not great PPD wise on most resolutions up until 8k+).

However the bigger you go, the farther away you have to separate your desk and the screen to get the optimal viewing angles and the PPD/ perceived pixel sizes you'd usually expect from their resolution figures or "k".

65" 16:9 screen
- - - - > 60 deg viewing angle starts at 45 inch view distance screen surface to eyeballs

With screens decoupled from my peripherals desk I've sat 38 to 48 inches away from my 48CX depending on what I was doing (on the long end using multiple screens) so it's doable for me. 1000R curve would bring it down to 1000mm ~~> 40 inch radius as a viewing distance though so would be better all around. 8k at 55" or 65" would work for me as central viewing angle screens. My desk is on caster wheels so I can roll it back up to the screens if I need the space when not in use.
 
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SD originally aimed for 55"-65" 8K 3rd gen panels around 2024-2025. It may takes even longer until there's enough profits to be made in that category.
 
So, is anyone besides me actually using a 8K monitor currently and if so, which one? Not really sure what realistic options there are besides the 8K Samsung TVs which of course are astonishing expensive. I got my QN900B 65" when Samsung had a crazy sale and it was the same price as the Neo G8 but I don't see myself ponying up the expected retail price and I am a monitor nerd and also a power user with LOTS of windows at the same time.

A little too early for me. They need to iron some wrinkles out and get the prices better on the TVs , or at least a 55" option in a 55" price tier along with better display performance on par with 4k versions. The 4k displays have better native contrast and better display quality than the 8k versions currently. Then there are those wrinkles like no custom resolutions 1:1 letterboxed b/c the 900b automatically upscales everything among other things.

I'm probably saving my pennies for one of the "4k 32inch doublewide" or "half 8k" screens from samsung or TCL before I spring for a 8k screen, for the above reasons.

SD originally aimed for 55"-65" 8K 3rd gen panels around 2024-2025. It may takes even longer until there's enough profits to be made in that category.

Looks like 2024 - 2025 will have several upgrades to OLED tech too like phosphorescent blue oled emitters (much more efficient, less wear/brighter capable) . . combined with things like micro array lenses, AI wear sensing tech (saving power use and heat on the screen itself for more brightness headroom), and hopefully layering tech with heatsinks. I'd hope for a boxier vented housing and some active fan cooling profile system like the ucx/ucg FALD screens have but I doubt mfgs will do that on TVs.

So seems like a waiting period until some of the better options come out. I'll prob be on "4k doublewide" ~ "1/2 8k" FALD for awhile if their reviews are good, and might keep my 48CX above it idk. I could potentially score a cheaper early gen 8k closeout price at some point just for the desktop/app real-estate (and accept the wrinkles/cons) . .. throw it above (a 4k doublewide) in an over/under if the price and timing was right but I'm not counting on it all things considered currently.
 
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42", 48", 55", 65" are all too big for mounting directly on a desk as a central viewing angle media and gaming screen space (full screen, and not great PPD wise on most resolutions up until 8k+).

However the bigger you go, the farther away you have to separate your desk and the screen to get the optimal viewing angles and the PPD/ perceived pixel sizes you'd usually expect from their resolution figures or "k".

65" 16:9 screen
- - - - > 60 deg viewing angle starts at 45 inch view distance screen surface to eyeballs

With screens decoupled from my peripherals desk I've sat 38 to 48 inches away from my 48CX depending on what I was doing (on the long end using multiple screens) so it's doable for me. 1000R curve would bring it down to 1000mm ~~> 40 inch radius as a viewing distance though so would be better all around. 8k at 55" or 65" would work for me as central viewing angle screens. My desk is on caster wheels so I can roll it back up to the screens if I need the space when not in use.
To each their own I guess but for me, I almost never do fullscreen for any application above 27" monitors. That includes gaming where I would usually go with a custom resolution. I've tried to replace my desk OLEDs for years now but everytime it has failed. But I won't deny that I would much rather have smaller screens with higher resolution, as 4K is only suitable to something like 32" at best. In comes 8K.....and currently 60 hz.
 
It's all relative to viewing distance once you are able and willing to decouple your screen from your desk with a simple thin spine'd floor tv stand. For example any 4k screen of any physical size, when viewed at distance to get the 60 to 50 degree human central viewing angle will perceptually have the exact same pixel sizes and fill your viewpoint the same amount. Same with 8k or any like to like screen of varying sizes.

The problem is people are shoehorning larger screens onto their desks and that's where you are basing your argument, or position quite literally, from.

Agreed that 4k 32" to 36" max is optimal on typical desk surfaces rather than decoupling the screen from the desk:

A 32" 4k screen within the human central viewing angle:

60 deg viewing angle, 64 PPD = 24 inch view distance screen surface to eyeballs

50 deg viewing angle, 77 PPD = 30 inch view distance screen surface to eyeballs

30 inch view distance is asking a bit much for a normal desk sitting with peripherals on top, screen surface to eyeballs but you can get 64PPD to 70 PPD at a healthy 60 deg to 55 deg viewing angle at 24 inch to 27 inch view distance, respectively.

So a 32" 4k is just about perfect size for mounting on a desk. I'd go as far as a 36" 4k on a desk though personally. At 60 deg viewing angle it would still only be at 27 inch view distance. Any bigger than that and you are better off decoupling the screen from the desk entirely using a simple thin spined floor tv stand with a flat foot or caster wheels (or wall mounting but that's much less modular and less adjustable) and moving the desk farther back from the screen.

That's in regard to full screen media and game viewing though, not the similar to a "multi monitor setup w/o bezels" desktop real-estate scenario where you might move your eyes and head around more to different app/window/"screen" spaces separately rather that viewing a full field show or game. Having parts of the screen space outside of your central viewing angle wouldn't be a big problem there, within reason.

You don't move your head around as frequently in that scenario as you are focusing on one app at a time typically. In media or a game you are following the bouncing ball so to speak, or like watching a tennis match from the midline. A better example might be tracking a fly buzzing around a room randomly. There is so much dynamic action going on from entites on screen plus the camera or virtual camera's pathing plus huds, notifications, pointers, chat, etc far field that it's fatiguing.

Yes you can run games in a window but some features may require full screen or some people may prefer full screen gaming/media depending. The resolutions/PPD and real estate of an 8k screen definitely opens up more possibilities though.
 
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is there any roadmap as to what year, a 8K 48" OLED will be out? how many year are we talking about?
 
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