Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

[heatlesssun]

I am sure there are a few ports worth playing. I stopped caring a few years back frankly. I have no incline to play all that many more of the same old shooter / first person type games that are mostly imo better played on a console anyway. I could care less about pushing a shooter I am going to play for a few hours and bench to 4k resolutions. For me PC games mean games like Civilization. Games like Civ / MOO keep me busy on the PC (in Linux). I can't remember the last non linux supporting game that I missed. The handful of games that don't get Linux support like those from Blizzard run well enough in wine. The only PC games I have found you end up having to bother with dual boots for are MMOs... although you can run some of them under wine just fine, for the most part your better off dual booting if your playing most MMOs.

If it works for you then it works for you. But this is often how the story goes of Linux proponents, "I don't care about that." And that's fine but why should anyone care about Linux if it doesn't support what they want to do? There's all these horror stories about Windows doing this or doing that but hey, losing compatibility with thousands in software, so what?

This is a HUGE problem for desktop Linux and it's FAR worse than many of its proponents want to admit. Look at all of the complaints people made of the loss of Windows Media Center in 10. Now multiply that a ten fold, with things a lot less esoteric that Windows Media Center.

 

[jwcalla]

And that's fine but why should anyone care about Linux if it doesn't support what they want to do?

They shouldn't.

 

[ChadD]

If it works for you then it works for you. But this is often how the story goes of Linux proponents, "I don't care about that." And that's fine but why should anyone care about Linux if it doesn't support what they want to do? There's all these horror stories about Windows doing this or doing that but hey, losing compatibility with thousands in software, so what?

This is a HUGE problem for desktop Linux and it's FAR worse than many of its proponents want to admit. Look at all of the complaints people made of the loss of Windows Media Center in 10. Now multiply that a ten fold, with things a lot less esoteric that Windows Media Center.

Or its not nearly as bad as many windows boosters claim.

Its a different OS... no you aren't going to be able to run all your windows software. There is Linux only software believe it or not. Yes Microsoft does destroy compatibility all the time. Older hardware always has issues with newer versions, and software can (not always of course) be just as flaky.

As for loosing things in Linux... I am not sure exactly what people are loosing to be honest. Yes there are some exceptions of course... as IcePick states sure CAD is still an area that Linux lags in. CAD software companies haven't really jumped in on Linux which is odd to be honest. Considering how that software is often used you would think some of those companies would have supported Linux sooner.

Of course we could go the reverse and start listing all the things you can do with Linux that you CAN NOT do with windows. Microsoft feels they need to start including Linux subsystems for good reason... if your a web developer or really a developer of any kind, Linux is > >.<

So yes completely different OS. Linux does a bunch of stuff better then Windows... Windows still does a few things better. No one is arguing that. For the average user though... no I'm sorry windows is not better. That is proven by hardware sales, the simple fact is the vast majority of personal computing is being done in Android/Chrome these days. Yes I know that isn't "desktop" usage... simply saying for the average person that can get 99% of what they want done, done with a phone / tablet or chromebook, Linux would keep them very happy. There are no issues with codecs, video, music, browsing, torrents or any other average user day to day stuff as you seem to be suggesting. Heck you don't even have to use a terrible browser to download the one you like, most distros already give you a proper one to start with.

As far as zero fresh install to 100% up and running do everything the average person wants (netflix / web browsing / music / video / word processing / photo editing) A clean install of Mint or manjaro and a full patch will take 20-40 min and will do all the things a clean windows install will do and more... you won't have to hunt Codec packs that perhaps you can trust (yes we have all helped that friend that downloaded some shady codec pack... get your friend to install Linux and that will never again be an issue) you won't have to download 10 different open source packages to get things to work. (They are almost all LINUX developed... I mean if your in windows using VLC / Qtorrent / Deluge / UMS / 7-zip and a ton of other "Free" programs I hate to break it to you guys it's all Linux software someone was nice enough to compile for windows for you)

 

[BulletDust]

If Linux won't work for you due to a lack of much needed software support than sticking to Windows is entirely understandable.

It's just a shame that in this technological day and age we don't have more options in relation to OS choice. I personally believe that there's evidence that things are slowly changing, but like everything it's going to take time.

 

[heatlesssun]

Or its not nearly as bad as many windows boosters claim.

I did say it depends on what you're doing. I spent more money on PC gaming and hardware last year than in any other single year since I've been doing this for over 30 years and very little of it is supported natively under Linux. I mean sure, the basics run but not almost all of the games and no VR support. Yeah, it's a pretty big problem with leading edge stuff like VR is supported by a platform.

As for loosing things in Linux... I am not sure exactly what people are loosing to be honest.

There are plenty that are very clear about what this issue is like here.

Yes there are some exceptions of course... as IcePick states sure CAD is still an area that Linux lags in. CAD software companies haven't really jumped in on Linux which is odd to be honest. Considering how that software is often used you would think some of those companies would have supported Linux sooner.

Of course we could go the reverse and start listing all the things you can do with Linux that you CAN NOT do with windows. Microsoft feels they need to start including Linux subsystems for good reason... if your a web developer or really a developer of any kind, Linux is > >.<

The development tool stack support is excellent in Windows, including open source stuff so I have no idea what you mean here.

As far as zero fresh install to 100% up and running do everything the average person wants (netflix / web browsing / music / video / word processing / photo editing) A clean install of Mint or manjaro and a full patch will take 20-40 min and will do all the things a clean windows install will do and more... you won't have to hunt Codec packs that perhaps you can trust (yes we have all helped that friend that downloaded some shady codec pack... get your friend to install Linux and that will never again be an issue) you won't have to download 10 different open source packages to get things to work. (They are almost all LINUX developed... I mean if your in windows using VLC / Qtorrent / Deluge / UMS / 7-zip and a ton of other "Free" programs I hate to break it to you guys it's all Linux software someone was nice enough to compile for windows for you)

Not really sure what this is about, I didn't have to install in Codec packs on this machine. I do use Cyberlink DVD, I watch 3D BDs. DVDs, BDs, 4k, VR SBS, yeah there's some commercial software in the mix here.

 

[jtm55]

Hi All

As been mentioned, Linux is a very good alternative to Windows 10. However, if there is software that you need that's only available under Windows, you probably should stick to Windows.

 

[heatlesssun]

Hi All

As been mentioned, Linux is a very good alternative to Windows 10. However, if there is software that you need that's only available under Windows, you probably should stick to Windows.

We get into these debates about OSes but the overwhelming about of our time is spent with applications running under the OS. Because so little of what I use is supported natively under Linux my view of it is that it's very weak in this area. YMMV.

 

[BulletDust]

Here's a list of software I use and alternatives under Linux:

Windows...........................................Linux
---------------------------------------------------------

-Sabnzbd+ ------------------------> Sabnzbd+
-Utorrent ---------------------------> Deluge (IMO better than Utorrent and open source)
-Steam ------------------------------> Steam
-Chrome ----------------------------> Chrome
-Firefox ------------------------------> Firefox
-Insync ------------------------------> Insync
-Nero (?) ----------------------------> Brasero (IMO better than Nero)
-WMC --------------------------------> Kodi (better as it's still supported)
-MakeMKV --------------------------> MakeMKV (better as it's free under Linux)
-VLC ----------------------------------> VLC
-Photoshop --------------------------> Gimp (Photoshop may be better for professionals, but IMO Gimp is better for the average user as opposed to a pirated version of Photoshop)
-Reditr --------------------------------> Reditr
-Wireshark ---------------------------> Wireshark
-CPU-Z -------------------------------> I-Nex
-VMware 12 -------------------------> VMware 12
-System temp monitor ------------> Psensor
-Filezilla --------------------------------> Filezilla
-MS Paint ----------------------------> Pinta
-Outlook ------------------------------> Thunderbird with Lightning plugin, integrates perfectly with my Google calendar.
-MS Office ---------------------------> Office online which works with minimal drawbacks, Libre Office, XPS Office, Google Apps.

There are most of my requirements off the top of my head, but as you can see I'm missing out on nothing. The games I prefer are supported under Linux with the exception of BF4 - In which case I believe the whole BF series has dropped in quality since BFBC2, but that's just my own stupid opinion. The only time I fire up BF4 now is to look at the pretty graphics in 4k.

Most of what I use is actually cross platform.

 

[jtm55]

We get into these debates about OSes but the overwhelming about of our time is spent with applications running under the OS. Because so little of what I use is supported natively under Linux my view of it is that it's very weak in this area. YMMV.

It's all good. At the end of the day, one has to go with the OS that best serves their needs

 

[jtm55]

Here's a list of software I use and alternatives under Linux:

Windows...........................................Linux
---------------------------------------------------------

-Sabnzbd+ ------------------------> Sabnzbd+
-Utorrent ---------------------------> Deluge (IMO better than Utorrent and open source)
-Steam ------------------------------> Steam
-Insync ------------------------------> Insync
-Nero (?) ----------------------------> Brasero (IMO better than Nero)
-WMC --------------------------------> Kodi (better as it's still supported)
-MakeMKV --------------------------> MakeMKV (better as it's free under Linux)
-VLC ----------------------------------> VLC
-Photoshop --------------------------> Gimp (Photoshop may be better for professionals, but IMO Gimp is better for the average user as opposed to a pirated version of Photoshop)
-Reditr --------------------------------> Reditr
-Wireshark ---------------------------> Wireshark
-CPU-Z -------------------------------> I-Nex
-VMware 12 -------------------------> VMware 12
-System temp monitor ------------> Psensor
-MS Paint ----------------------------> Pinta
-Outlook ------------------------------> Thunderbird with Lightning plugin, integrates perfectly with my Google calendar.
-MS Office ---------------------------> Office online which works with minimal drawbacks, Libre Office, XPS Office, Google Apps.

There are most of my requirements off the top of my head, but as you can see I'm missing out on nothing. The games I prefer are supported under Linux with the exception of BF4 - In which case I believe the whole BF series has dropped in quality since BFBC2, but that's just my own stupid opinion. The only time I fire up BF4 now is to look at the pretty graphics in 4k.

Most of what I use is actually cross platform.

Almost the same for me with the exception of Office online. I use WPS Office

Agree for the most part about the Battlefield series which is why I play Verdun 1914-1918 as opposed to Battlefield 1

 

[Snowdog]

As for loosing things in Linux... I am not sure exactly what people are loosing to be honest. Yes there are some exceptions of course... as IcePick states sure CAD is still an area that Linux lags in. CAD software companies haven't really jumped in on Linux which is odd to be honest. Considering how that software is often used you would think some of those companies would have supported Linux sooner. (1)

So yes completely different OS. Linux does a bunch of stuff better then Windows... Windows still does a few things better. No one is arguing that. For the average user though... no I'm sorry windows is not better. That is proven by hardware sales, the simple fact is the vast majority of personal computing is being done in Android/Chrome these days. Yes I know that isn't "desktop" usage... simply saying for the average person that can get 99% of what they want done... (2)

... you won't have to hunt Codec packs that perhaps you can trust (yes we have all helped that friend that downloaded some shady codec pack... get your friend to install Linux and that will never again be an issue) you won't have to download 10 different open source packages to get things to work. (They are almost all LINUX developed... I mean if your in windows using VLC / Qtorrent / Deluge / UMS / 7-zip and a ton of other "Free" programs I hate to break it to you guys it's all Linux software someone was nice enough to compile for windows for you) (3)

Whenever I read posts like this, it seems just like all the Linux Advocacy posts I have read for over a decade. It seems aimed at fooling people who have never tried Linux, because it doesn't represent the reality I have experienced, having installed about 10 different versions of Linux at home, having used it at work as development environment, and desktop.

At work for desktops we went from Solaris and HPUX machines, to Windows Machines, to Linux Machines (running RHEL) and by far the worse experience was using Linux as desktop work machine. Even a decade after using HPUX, RHEL was no where near as good. It was a clunky mess. It was pretty much universally hated. My home installation ALWAYS ended up taking all my time just working on Linux instead of just using software on Linux.

1) We are losing software. It depends on the person what that means. For me I lose WMC to record TV, and Video Redo to edit commercials. I lose my Garmin GPS Software. I lose games. I checked my GOG library. 7 of my 44 games support Linux, so there goes most of my games, and I would have to start over trying to figure out alternatives for all my favorite little programs.

2) Citation needed on bullshit. Where do get the majority of personal computing done on Android. Especially where do you get that Android does 99% of what people want to do? People use phones because that is what they have with them. But when the have to write a paper, set up even a simple spreadsheet, or hell, even compose a long internet post, they aren't going to want to do it on a phone. Hell I would never even browse on one, if I had a computer around. I have an android tablet. I really only use it for reading (comics/novels/pdfs/mags) and audiobooks. It's inferior for just about anything else.

3) I have no Codec packs on Windows 7. MPC-HC/VLC play everything without codec packs. Even WMP just needs a media splitter to play MKVs.

 

[BulletDust]

Whenever I read posts like this, it seems just like all the Linux Advocacy posts I have read for over a decade. It seems aimed at fooling people who have never tried Linux, because it doesn't represent the reality I have experienced, having installed about 10 different versions of Linux at home, having used it at work as development environment, and desktop.

At work for desktops we went from Solaris and HPUX machines, to Windows Machines, to Linux Machines (running RHEL) and by far the worse experience was using Linux as desktop work machine. Even a decade after using HPUX, RHEL was no where near as good. It was a clunky mess. It was pretty much universally hated. My home installation ALWAYS ended up taking all my time just working on Linux instead of just using software on Linux.

1) We are losing software. It depends on the person what that means. For me I lose WMC to record TV, and Video Redo to edit commercials. I lose my Garmin GPS Software. I lose games. I checked my GOG library. 7 of my 44 games support Linux, so there goes most of my games, and I would have to start over trying to figure out alternatives for all my favorite little programs.

2) Citation needed on bullshit. Where do get the majority of personal computing done on Android. Especially where do you get that Android does 99% of what people want to do? People use phones because that is what they have with them. But when the have to write a paper, set up even a simple spreadsheet, or hell, even compose a long internet post, they aren't going to want to do it on a phone. Hell I would never even browse on one, if I had a computer around. I have an android tablet. I really only use it for reading (comics/novels/pdfs/mags) and audiobooks. It's inferior for just about anything else.

3) I have no Codec packs on Windows 7. MPC-HC/VLC play everything without codec packs. Even WMP just needs a media splitter to play MKVs.

This in no way reflects my experience with Linux whatsoever.

Does that indicate my opinion is somehow wrong, does it indicate that I'm trying to fool Windows users? No, not at all. It simply means that individual needs vary.

 

[BulletDust]

2) Citation needed on bullshit. Where do get the majority of personal computing done on Android. Especially where do you get that Android does 99% of what people want to do? People use phones because that is what they have with them. But when the have to write a paper, set up even a simple spreadsheet, or hell, even compose a long internet post, they aren't going to want to do it on a phone. Hell I would never even browse on one, if I had a computer around. I have an android tablet. I really only use it for reading (comics/novels/pdfs/mags) and audiobooks. It's inferior for just about anything else.

I do all this and more on my Nexus 9, when I'm out and about I plug in my Mac's USB keyboard and mouse and perform all my computing tasks quite easily.

 

[Snowdog]

I do all this and more on my Nexus 9, when I'm out and about I plug in my Mac's USB keyboard and mouse and perform all my computing tasks quite easily.

If you are going to carry around a keyboard, why not just have a laptop instead of that clunky mess?

IMO arguing Android as Windows desktop replacement is even worse than Linux. I have used them all, and I would put Linux WAY ahead of Android for any kind of productivity.

Windows >> Linux >>> Android. For desktop work.

 

[Grahamkracka]

No support for the major CAD programs in linux = a no-go for me. But apparently I should be running those on an Xbox so I can load up linux and get some real work done.

This right here, I can either use Linux AND Windows for my work...or I can just use Windows. I'll take the less pain in the ass option for $2000 Alex.

The only time I use Linux is logging into a dev server so I can access supercomputer resources.

 

[BulletDust]

If you are going to carry around a keyboard, why not just have a laptop instead of that clunky mess?

IMO arguing Android as Windows desktop replacement is even worse than Linux. I have used them all, and I would put Linux WAY ahead of Android for any kind of productivity.

Windows >> Linux >>> Android. For any kind of desktop work.

Because when I lay back in bed to watch a movie I find the attached keyboard cumbersome and I can't stand trackpads. The only time I really need such mobile computing is when we're on holiday (I know, I should just completely unplug, I just can't!)

Honestly, I have no issues whatsoever claiming Linux > Windows > Android for productivity. In fact, as I've claimed in past threads, I actually find I'm more productive running Linux for numerous reasons.

I've got no motivation to lie to anyone, that includes Windows users.

 

[BulletDust]

This right here, I can either use Linux AND Windows for my work...or I can just use Windows. I'll take the less pain in the ass option for $2000 Alex.

Not attacking and I respect your opinion 100%. But such thinking is fine, until you let your defences slip just once and accidentally install a cryptolocker virus or similar - Then the PITA less option becomes a major PITA. You have to admit, it does happen, I know as I'm the tech that picks up the pieces afterwards.

Sure, you can run AV, but then you run into a whole different set of issues with the AV taking over your PC.

 

[Grahamkracka]

Not attacking and I respect your opinion 100%. But such thinking is fine, until you let your defences slip just once and accidentally install a cryptolocker virus or similar - Then the PITA less option becomes a major PITA. You have to admit, it does happen, I know as I'm the tech that picks up the pieces afterwards.

Sure, you can run AV, but then you run into a whole different set of issues with the AV taking over your PC.

1. I'm not stupid.
2. I am limited by the software I have to use. I am an engineer and the most robust engineering software suites are on Windows, period. Some are on linux or MacOS, but not all. So Windows it is.

 

[Snowdog]

Not attacking and I respect your opinion 100%. But such thinking is fine, until you let your defences slip just once and accidentally install a cryptolocker virus or similar - Then the PITA less option becomes a major PITA. You have to admit, it does happen, I know as I'm the tech that picks up the pieces afterwards.

Sure, you can run AV, but then you run into a whole different set of issues with the AV taking over your PC.

FUD, FUD...... FUD, FUD ........ FUD, FUD,FUD, FUD, FUD...

 

[BulletDust]

1. I'm not stupid.
2. I am limited by the software I have to use. I am an engineer and the most robust engineering software suites are on Windows, period. Some are on linux or MacOS, but not all. So Windows it is.

No one claimed you're stupid, but you are human.

 

[BulletDust]

FUD, FUD...... FUD, FUD ........ FUD, FUD,FUD, FUD, FUD...

Oh dear, believe what you want my friend.

 

[Snowdog]

Oh dear, believe what you want my friend.

FUD from an Android user, brings to mind phrases about glass houses and stone throwing.

Android today is like Windows XP in the early days. Every week there I read some new malware infestation.

 

[BulletDust]

FUD from an Android user, brings to mind phrases about glass houses and stone throwing.

Android today is like Windows XP in the early days. Every week there I read some new malware infestation.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

 

[Snowdog]

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

It's not my opinion that I read things like this weekly(this was yesterdays):
http://arstechnica.com/security/201...urns-gets-2-million-downloads-on-google-play/
"Users must realize that they can no longer trust in installing only apps with a high reputation from official app stores as their sole defense," the researchers wrote in an e-mail to Ars. "This malware employs several tactics to keep its activity hidden, meaning users might be unaware of its existence on their device."

It's the reality. If there is any platform I would not trust with anything important, it is Android.

 

[IcePickFreak]

As for loosing things in Linux... I am not sure exactly what people are loosing to be honest. Yes there are some exceptions of course... as IcePick states sure CAD is still an area that Linux lags in. CAD software companies haven't really jumped in on Linux which is odd to be honest. Considering how that software is often used you would think some of those companies would have supported Linux sooner.

Oddly enough, stuff like Pro/E (now Creo) had a linux version about 10 years ago, but then removed support for it with a newer release.

 

[heatlesssun]

Here's a list of software I use and alternatives under Linux:

Windows...........................................Linux
---------------------------------------------------------

-Sabnzbd+ ------------------------> Sabnzbd+
-Utorrent ---------------------------> Deluge (IMO better than Utorrent and open source)
-Steam ------------------------------> Steam
-Chrome ----------------------------> Chrome
-Firefox ------------------------------> Firefox
-Insync ------------------------------> Insync
-Nero (?) ----------------------------> Brasero (IMO better than Nero)
-WMC --------------------------------> Kodi (better as it's still supported)
-MakeMKV --------------------------> MakeMKV (better as it's free under Linux)
-VLC ----------------------------------> VLC
-Photoshop --------------------------> Gimp (Photoshop may be better for professionals, but IMO Gimp is better for the average user as opposed to a pirated version of Photoshop)
-Reditr --------------------------------> Reditr
-Wireshark ---------------------------> Wireshark
-CPU-Z -------------------------------> I-Nex
-VMware 12 -------------------------> VMware 12
-System temp monitor ------------> Psensor
-Filezilla --------------------------------> Filezilla
-MS Paint ----------------------------> Pinta
-Outlook ------------------------------> Thunderbird with Lightning plugin, integrates perfectly with my Google calendar.
-MS Office ---------------------------> Office online which works with minimal drawbacks, Libre Office, XPS Office, Google Apps.

There are most of my requirements off the top of my head, but as you can see I'm missing out on nothing. The games I prefer are supported under Linux with the exception of BF4 - In which case I believe the whole BF series has dropped in quality since BFBC2, but that's just my own stupid opinion. The only time I fire up BF4 now is to look at the pretty graphics in 4k.

Most of what I use is actually cross platform.

The problem with lists like these is that no single individual is ever going to come up with a list that covers more than the tip of the iceberg. Now this particular list covers the basics, but gaming is problematic and Office, and not trying to get into that debate with you again but there's just so many caveats and nuances to Office that it's impossible to cover all of the potential pitfalls.

But here's the thing. As you point out almost all of this stuff is cross platform, it has Windows support. And I don't know where you're getting MakeMKV is only free on Linux, seems to be free for Windows and OS X as well. So move to Linux, here are all these great alternatives that are already there for Windows as well as things that aren't there for Linux.

The bottom line, you lose a lot of 3rd party software support with desktop Linux. Now one may not care, many not use these things but that's what the situation is.

 

[tetris42]

The problem with lists like these is that no single individual is ever going to come up with a list that covers more than the tip of the iceberg. Now this particular list covers the basics, but gaming is problematic and Office, and not trying to get into that debate with you again but there's just so many caveats and nuances to Office that it's impossible to cover all of the potential pitfalls.

But here's the thing. As you point out almost all of this stuff is cross platform, it has Windows support. And I don't know where you're getting MakeMKV is only free on Linux, seems to be free for Windows and OS X as well. So move to Linux, here are all these great alternatives that are already there for Windows as well as things that aren't there for Linux.

The bottom line, you lose a lot of 3rd party software support with desktop Linux. Now one may not care, many not use these things but that's what the situation is.

Some alternatives aren't really equivalents either. As someone who uses Premiere a lot, does Linux really have an editor that can do everything it can? I'm sure they can do basic editing, but I'm already using 3rd party noise cleanup filters that seem to outdo everything else I've seen. Or hey, what about extra frame generation functions like Twixtor? I'd be surprised if there's something as effective on Linux. So an alternative that only does 90% of what you need isn't a replacement if you really need that other 10% of functionality. A lot of linux people like to pretend it's simply a matter of doing things a different way, which is fine, but sometimes the same functionality simply isn't there, even if a lot of other functions are.

 

[Michaelius]

QFT. I don't necessarily begrudge MS forever, but like you said, PC gamers got the shaft in a lot of ways ever since the Xbox's inception. I don't forget that. I see their move to bring PC parity on all their Xbox titles as a step in the right direction, but it also means they have about another 15 years to go of NOT shafting PC gamers in order to get back anything resembling trust.

Unfortunately they plan to bring back that parity by dumbing down what we pc gamers had for years into fully controlled smartphone/console like OS

 

[jwcalla]

At work for desktops we went from Solaris and HPUX machines, to Windows Machines, to Linux Machines (running RHEL) and by far the worse experience was using Linux as desktop work machine. Even a decade after using HPUX, RHEL was no where near as good. It was a clunky mess. It was pretty much universally hated. My home installation ALWAYS ended up taking all my time just working on Linux instead of just using software on Linux.

Maybe you should just stick with Chromebooks?

 

[grtitan]

Doesn't GPU passthrough work ok already?

Yeap, it does.

Here is a quick guide for Ubuntu.

 

[Snowdog]

Maybe you should just stick with Chromebooks?

Not sure how that follows. Chrome isn't even a desktop OS. It's a glorified browser.

Real UNIX like HPUX was a great desktop. It was solid and slick. I have no issue with working/developing in it. I have set up Web Servers from scratch with Linux working entirely in the command line,and have used it as dev environment for work as well, so I am not adverse a using a command line.

But IMO, Linux is a second class desktop OS. It's clunky and disjointed. The too many cooks in the kitchen issue. A bunch of people pulling in different directions made it, and it feels like it.

Having Linux as your desktop OS, is more about having Linux as your desktop OS, or philosophical arguments about "Freedom", or being a He Man Windows/Microsoft Hater, than any real benefit.

 

[BulletDust]

don't know where you're getting MakeMKV is only free on Linux, seems to be free for Windows and OS X as well.

I haven't checked for a while, but the last time I used MakeMKV it definitely wasn't free for Windows or OSX, you would download a time limited trial and once it expired you had to pay to continue using the software - I'm pretty sure that's still the case. Under Linux you can install the beta key off the forums and run the software for free.

If people need Windows due to some obscure software package, than Windows it is. However, if you're tired of Microsoft's iron grip on your PC and want to take control back or you're simply worried about viruses in relation to important work/documents than Linux may be an option for daily use. You may not have noticed it in the controlled environment you work in, but I can assure you that Windows 10 is a buggy mess that's made worse with malware, I'm simply suggesting an alternative. The fact that applications are available cross platform is a good thing, but it's no reason to stick with Windows if you're simply over it - In fact cross platform compatibility allows for the exact opposite.

To anyone thinking about GPU passthrough, it's a major PITA. Use Wine or stick to Windows, don't kill yourself trying to get GPU passthrough working.

In terms of alternatives to Adobe Premiere, there are alternatives like Kdenlive, which I use and find quite good - Although I'm no professional. However, Lightworks looks to be an awesome professional grade package that may be a viable alternative. The big thing here is you're going to have to unlearn what you currently know and relearn a new package, that's the part people find difficult - Change is hard, especially in a stressful professional environment.

Snowdog = ignore list, thank gawd I don't need to read that crap anymore.

 

[heatlesssun]

I haven't checked for a while, but the last time I used MakeMKV it definitely wasn't free for Windows or OSX, you would download a time limited trial and once it expired you had to pay to continue using the software - I'm pretty sure that's still the case. Under Linux you can install the beta key off the forums and run the software for free.

Looking at their website, the beta is always free and for all platforms. I don't see anything about singling out Linux as free for the production versions.

If people need Windows due to some obscure software package, than Windows it is. However, if you're tired of Microsoft's iron grip on your PC and want to take control back or you're simply worried about viruses in relation to important work/documents than Linux may be an option for daily use. You may not have noticed it in the controlled environment you work in, but I can assure you that Windows 10 is a buggy mess that's made worse with malware, I'm simply suggesting an alternative. The fact that applications are available cross platform is a good thing, but it's no reason to stick with Windows if you're simply over it - In fact cross platform compatibility allows for the exact opposite.

And this is where I clearly see things differently. If 10 were a buggy mess, I have no idea how I'd be able to use it on all the things I do. And there are just a lot of shortcomings in some of the alternatives here. Office, we're just going to see that one differently. And it's not like I've not tested quite a bit over the years things like LibreOffice. I have LibreOffice installed on multiple machines and constantly try it out. It's certainly could work for a lot of people, it's not bad but it's just not in the same league as Office top to bottom. And that's to be expected, Microsoft pours far more resources into Office than Libre could ever dream of.

 

[boomslang06]

Dual boot. Linux for serious work.

Windows for entertainment - movies, games.

Windows simply has too many legal loopholes in it's licenses to trust with anything sensitive.

yeah let me know when Linux runs Adobe software so i can get some serious work done !

 

[ChadD]

Here's a list of software I use and alternatives under Linux:

Windows...........................................Linux
---------------------------------------------------------

-Sabnzbd+ ------------------------> Sabnzbd+
-Utorrent ---------------------------> Deluge (IMO better than Utorrent and open source)
-Steam ------------------------------> Steam
-Chrome ----------------------------> Chrome
-Firefox ------------------------------> Firefox
-Insync ------------------------------> Insync
-Nero (?) ----------------------------> Brasero (IMO better than Nero)
-WMC --------------------------------> Kodi (better as it's still supported)
-MakeMKV --------------------------> MakeMKV (better as it's free under Linux)
-VLC ----------------------------------> VLC
-Photoshop --------------------------> Gimp (Photoshop may be better for professionals, but IMO Gimp is better for the average user as opposed to a pirated version of Photoshop)
-Reditr --------------------------------> Reditr
-Wireshark ---------------------------> Wireshark
-CPU-Z -------------------------------> I-Nex
-VMware 12 -------------------------> VMware 12
-System temp monitor ------------> Psensor
-Filezilla --------------------------------> Filezilla
-MS Paint ----------------------------> Pinta
-Outlook ------------------------------> Thunderbird with Lightning plugin, integrates perfectly with my Google calendar.
-MS Office ---------------------------> Office online which works with minimal drawbacks, Libre Office, XPS Office, Google Apps.

There are most of my requirements off the top of my head, but as you can see I'm missing out on nothing. The games I prefer are supported under Linux with the exception of BF4 - In which case I believe the whole BF series has dropped in quality since BFBC2, but that's just my own stupid opinion. The only time I fire up BF4 now is to look at the pretty graphics in 4k.

Most of what I use is actually cross platform.

yeah let me know when Linux runs Adobe software so i can get some serious work done !

Its a good list and their are lots of other options as well. I am not sure if many die hard windows people realize how much software they use at this point that is cross platform and in many cases developed on Linux.

For Photoshop... Krita is my personal favorite replacement. https://krita.org/en/ It is geared more at digital painting... but imo it does a bunch of stuff better then photoshop. I was using photoshop in windows for a long time and stopped upgrading a few years back... 99% of what I do I use a combo of Krita Gimp and Inkscape now.(if your more into vector work https://inkscape.org/en/ there is also a windows compile I believe) The other 1% is mostly me taking something sent to me that for some reason doesn't quite load right, I generally use photoshop long enough to change what didn't load right and head back to my Linux partition. (for you windows guys Krita is another program with a Windows compile if you wanna give it a run... if you have been warezing photoshop it might be worth looking at as its 100% free)

If your talking about adobes terrible video stuff (ok sorry couldn't help it). There are some good Linux video editors others have mentioned. Really though one that most people don't think of right away. Blender, turns out to be a very very good professional video editing tool.

 

[BulletDust]

And this is where I clearly see things differently. If 10 were a buggy mess, I have no idea how I'd be able to use it on all the things I do. And there are just a lot of shortcomings in some of the alternatives here. Office, we're just going to see that one differently. And it's not like I've not tested quite a bit over the years things like LibreOffice. I have LibreOffice installed on multiple machines and constantly try it out. It's certainly could work for a lot of people, it's not bad but it's just not in the same league as Office top to bottom. And that's to be expected, Microsoft pours far more resources into Office than Libre could ever dream of.

This is an area where we're never going to agree and one I'm going to keep peddling.

You claim to run Linux in a VM, I run Linux full time and also have a Windows 10 machine with Office 2016 - I can assure you, you exaggerate the scale of this perceived issue greatly. I also see no evidence of the resources Microsoft pour into Office, that's just a generalization. As stated, we live in a cloud based world now, if you need Office that badly there's Office online and it runs with few drawbacks.

Furthermore, there's just no way you can claim that Windows 10 runs faultlessly in all cases and doesn't suffer from serious issues, every update is reason to pray the machine keeps running - As someone in the field I see these issues every single day.

Feel free to flame away people, I couldn't care less, I'll just file it away under 'shit'.

 

[heatlesssun]

You claim to run Linux in a VM, I run Linux full time and also have a Windows 10 machine with Office 2016 - I can assure you, you exaggerate the scale of this perceived issue greatly. I also see no evidence of the resources Microsoft pour into Office, that's just a generalization.

You can't run everything full time and you can't be aware of everything everyone so the argument is generalized by nature from both sides. However, there are things I use in MS Office and have for some time that just there in LibreOffice and big thing for me is lack of touch and ink support. I don't use that stuff all of the time outside of OneNote but yeah, I look at documents all of the time on tablet using touch. And sure you can say that it's not a big deal until one day someone may want such capabilities and the number of devices with those capabilities is increasing. As for Microsoft's resources in Office, yeah, there's a lot there. Office might be more important to them today than Windows and they have like a client for every major platform, sans Linux. They might one day build one for Linux but yeah it would make Linux as desktop a lot more viable for people but at the same time so many Linux folks are anti-Microsoft it's hard to know if it be worth the effort, at least right now.

As stated, we live in a cloud based world now, if you need Office that badly there's Office online and it runs with few drawbacks.

For a home user sure a web client will probably work. If you're crunching larger documents the performance won't be there.

Furthermore, there's just no way you can claim that Windows 10 runs faultlessly in all cases and doesn't suffer from serious issues, every update is reason to pray the machine keeps running - As someone in the field I see these issues every single day.

Ok Windows 10 has serious problems. To me desktop Linux has more serious problems because it fails to do the things I want and need. If Linux can be less problematic for people than Windows then they should be all means us it. But there's no silver bullet here. With Linux some people will be better, some maybe worse and the rest will simply trade on set of problem for another.

 

[BulletDust]

You can't run everything full time and you can't be aware of everything everyone so the argument is generalized by nature from both sides. However, there are things I use in MS Office and have for some time that just there in LibreOffice and big thing for me is lack of touch and ink support. I don't use that stuff all of the time outside of OneNote but yeah, I look at documents all of the time on tablet using touch. And sure you can say that it's not a big deal until one day someone may want such capabilities and the number of devices with those capabilities is increasing. As for Microsoft's resources in Office, yeah, there's a lot there. Office might be more important to them today than Windows and they have like a client for every major platform, sans Linux. They might one day build one for Linux but yeah it would make Linux as desktop a lot more viable for people but at the same time so many Linux folks are anti-Microsoft it's hard to know if it be worth the effort, at least right now.



For a home user sure a web client will probably work. If you're crunching larger documents the performance won't be there.



Ok Windows 10 has serious problems. To me desktop Linux has more serious problems because it fails to do the things I want and need. If Linux can be less problematic for people than Windows then they should be all means us it. But there's no silver bullet here. With Linux some people will be better, some maybe worse and the rest will simply trade on set of problem for another.

Well, that's all your opinion, I'll file it away.

 

[heatlesssun]

Well, that's all your opinion, I'll file it away.

This is all opinion. But there's also a lot of history on this particular subject that spans two decades now. And it's always been pretty much the same debate from a desktop perspective. From pro-Linux people the argument is Linux is free, more secure, more configurable and customizable and there's no mega corp that owns and controls it. From pro-Windows people, those are good points but where's the support for the things I need and want? In two sentences that's what this has all been about for 20 years.

 

[umeng2002]

yeah let me know when Linux runs Adobe software so i can get some serious work done !

Who does serious work with Adobe?