Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    The way I see it, Windows 10 is a privacy nightmare and anti virus/anti malware causes more issues than it solves in many cases. In my opinion Linux is the best form of anti virus/anti malware there is. Use Linux for everything you're likely to achieve daily on your machine, use Windows for gaming if you insist on gaming titles from the likes of EA, Blizzard, etc.

    Everything is accessible from the cloud these days, there's Google's outstanding suite of office applications or MS Office available in your browser with very few limitations, if that's what you absolutely need - Otherwise Libre Office or WPS Office are outstanding alternatives these days.

    People believe that MS Office is needed from a compatibility standpoint. The odd thing about that is that MS Office is using an open standard to save files, yet it's only files saved under MS Office using an open standard that show compatibility issues with any other office suite. You can swap files between Google Apps, Libre Office and WPS Office all day without issue using the same open standard, but get MS Office involved and compatibility issues seem to sneak in there...?

    Personally, I swapped full time to Linux. I game under Linux via Steam or via sites such as GoG.com, I run binary Nvidia drivers which are a breeze to install using the GUI driver manager and keep updated, and I run my business under Linux using Libre Office - And I don't feel limited in the slightest.

    Furthermore, I just love the look/feel of my Ubuntu MATE desktop!

    Each to their own, that's just my perspective on the matter. I still have a Windows 10 machine, I just never use it!
     
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  2. Gawain The Blind

    Gawain The Blind n00b

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    Haha, I've done it several times now on different machines.


    I'm basically just riding windows 7 out while hoping at the same time that Vulkan makes linux more attractive to game developers. I don't particularly like linux, but I like it a lot more than win10.
     
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  3. endalykt

    endalykt Limp Gawd

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    Well, I decided to torture myself and try and run S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call Of Pripyat in a virtual machine.

    VMware
    Host: Windows 7 Ultimate, i5-4690K, 8 GB RAM, GTX 960
    Guest: Windows 7 Ultimate, 4 cores, 2 GB RAM

    Static lighting (1920×1080)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Full dynamic lighting (1920×1080)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I didn't get it to run on VirtualBox, probably because of insufficient VRAM (max 256 MB). I don't have a non-VM Linux OS right now, so I couldn't test that, but it probably wouldn't be all that much worse (I hope).

    I am honestly quite surprised at how well it performs, considering I do not even have that high-end of a build. If you are running Linux primary, this is most certainly a viable to option to play some modern games. With an even better build you could probably push it even further.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  4. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Your screenshots bring up another point with using virtualization for gaming: your screenshots are screaming for some antialiasing. In native Windows, you can force it through videocard drivers. In VMware, if the game itself doesn't support it, you don't have any options.
     
  5. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Why not if you're using GPU passthrough?
     
  6. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    It's not a matter of feel that I need, I use a lot things that simply don't have Linux support and often there just aren't any alternatives and I've spent a lot of time looking into this matter. I know that this isn't the for everyone, maybe not even most except area like gaming.

    Well just look at VR, going a year into and no support at all for Linux or macOS. Yeah, it's supposed to be coming for Linux but even when it does it'll have no where near the title support of Windows.

    Well sure, for phones and tablets. No so much for desktops.

    Whatever the problems with Windows there's nothing else in the x86 client world that has that kind of support. It's the primary reason many use it, especially for gaming.
     
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  7. endalykt

    endalykt Limp Gawd

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    Never used it in my life (unless hardcoded), and couldn't care less. Others will, however, and if VM gaming (think emulating older consoles or DOSBox) is ever going to be a thing, GPU pass-through/virtualisation is going to have to be a lot better with a lot more control. I'd say this is a good start, but there's plenty more to do!

    There's probably a limitation somewhere, there usually is!
     
  8. Meeho

    Meeho [H]ardness Supreme

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    Agreed, just look at MS reps presence in online forums.
     
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  9. buzzbomb

    buzzbomb Gawd

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    Right? And I didn't really mind 8/8.1 for that matter...Vista was ugly (IMO) but it worked, 7 was the bee's knees, 8/8.1 were ugly but worked, and 10 has been good to me so far.

    It's cool/edgy to hate M$ maaaaan, don't you forget it!
     
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  10. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm pissed. The fuckers forced Anniversary edition on my systems, even when I tried to avoid that update like the plague. It's the little shit that gets fucked up that really pisses me off, like losing control over folder views. Post update it is now stuck on individual folder views and my gawd, its surprisingly annoying. And you can't set folder views for shared libraries to fall under apply to all folders, wtf MS? Random and minor apps breaking and stuff, wth!
     
  11. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Just look at the content on PC gaming sites like this. All of the GPU and gaming benchmarks on HardOCP have been done using Windows 10 for about 18 months now?
     
  12. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    If you don't like windows 10, use windows 7. Windows 8 and 8.1 is retarded.
    As for windows 10, it's very much like windows 7. If you don't want all the spying crap that was added in windows 10, there are like 4-5 services you need to turn off.
    That's about it.
    Maybe i should start my own gaming site and see if i can monetize basic common sense.
     
  13. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    Why didn't you disable the windows update service?
     
  14. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    Basic common sense, that would start with at install, windows asking me if I want to provide this data, and if I choose 'no' it disables it all. Having to go through and shut services down and block IP's is much farther down that road that most people can't walk down. A nice way to do it would have been to offer pricing tiers based on what you allow to pass through.
     
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  15. thesmokingman

    thesmokingman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I was using the post pone or defer option because I still wanted the minor updates.
     
  16. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    It's probably better to disable the service completely, then once a month or whenever you want, turning it back on, seeing what's available and deciding whether or not you want to update.
    That eliminates the update creep and annoying reminders that pop up when you're in the middle of doing something.
     
  17. Gigus Fire

    Gigus Fire 2[H]4U

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    I fully agree.
    I can sort of understand when they had their "get windows 10 for free if you upgrade" phase, but now that they're charging a fixed price for a license, one would expect the same functionality as all of the previous versions when it comes to privacy.
    Unfortunately it's a brave new world where no privacy is allowed.
    Fortunately there are ways to combat it, and the steps to do so aren't that difficult.
     
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  18. nightfly

    nightfly 2[H]4U

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    Spying shouldn't be done in the first place. If MS isn't using my data, why are they collecting it? It's kind of like when a boy tells his GF it's perfectly OK to send him naked pics, but he won't show it to anyone else. Gee, wonder how that usually works out. If it's not going to be used, there's no reason to collect that data. So, it's apparent that we all ARE important enough to spy on.
     
  19. Ordeith

    Ordeith Limp Gawd

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    Paul Thurrott went off the deep end quite some time ago. All he seems to do anymore is pander to the rabid base he attracts to his site and sell "adverticles" to the highest bitter. Seek your information elsewhere.
     
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  20. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    It's not for any technical merits that gaming reviews are done with 10 instead of 8.1 or 7, especially since DX12 benches are no better - and sometimes worse - than DX11. Gaming reviews use 10 because tradition is to use the latest bleeding edge software, beta drivers, etc. They're giving MS the benefit of the doubt.

    That said, I find it hilarious that MS pooped on the heads of PC gamers for 15 years, and now suddenly that a critical mass of gamers bought into the DX12 marketing hype and blind-installed 10 hoping for gaming improvements - sending OS marketshare on Steam to near 50%, or twice the overall worldwide 24.6% - suddenly gamers are the darling demographic that MSFT investors/employees are clinging to like a drowning cat.

    Gamers remember GFWL, they remember MS moneyhatting firstparty and thirdparty studios to keep titles Xbox-only and canceling PC versions, and 15 years of "this year we embrace PC gamers" hot-air while nothing actually changed and things remained Xbox-as-usual.

    I beg you, sir, do not confuse gamers tolerating 10 in the hopes DX12 eventually delivers, as gamers endorsing it overall. If 10 wasn't such a toxic, bitter pill, then every corner of the Internet wouldn't explode every time "Windows 10" appears in any headline. That's a problem MS needs to fix, and they know how.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  21. jwcalla

    jwcalla 2[H]4U

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    If you have nvidia hardware it's probably better in most cases to run WINE rather than using VMs with GPU passthrough. (I think WINE supports DX11... not sure now that I think of it, but I think Call of Pripyat is well-supported.)

    Inside the Linux world, I predict Solus is going to have a breakout year. Those guys are smart and have a good head on their shoulders. They may supplant Mint as the go-to distro.
     
  22. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    QFT. I don't necessarily begrudge MS forever, but like you said, PC gamers got the shaft in a lot of ways ever since the Xbox's inception. I don't forget that. I see their move to bring PC parity on all their Xbox titles as a step in the right direction, but it also means they have about another 15 years to go of NOT shafting PC gamers in order to get back anything resembling trust.
     
  23. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    But where are the numbers? You'd have to go back and retest everything again under 8.1 or 7 to truly know what the differences are. I wouldn't expect much different but you'd still have to retest everything. As for DX 12, the story you keep telling isn't all to it. DX 12 seems to help some AMD hardware and one of the games that HardOCP uses for benching, Gears of War 4 is DX 12 only.

    Well it's more than just DX 12. I bought a whole new setup last year. I just don't see the point of putting old OSes as the main client of top end brand new hardware.
     
  24. endalykt

    endalykt Limp Gawd

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    As far as I know, Stalker crashed on Wine if you use DX11, unless they've fixed it.
     
  25. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    You're all full of shit. Windows NT5/2000 was the best windows release ever. Baring that Windows XP SP3 was pretty solid.

    corrected that for you.
     
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  26. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Seconded. Windows 2000 is the best pure OS that MS has made. High watermark for sure. Thereafter, improvements and new features came at the cost of filler.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  27. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    Only time I ever had to reboot my 2k machine was for some stupid driver, otherwise it ran without any issues. Used to be my main gaming rig.
     
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  28. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Microsoft to PC gamers is like the hot chick that ignored you in high school, now its 15 years later and she's fat and divorced with two kids, hammering you on Facebook that she "always thought you were cute".
     
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  29. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Ok in their defense there have been worse microsoft windows versions

    [​IMG]

    also known as OMG WHERES THE DLL FUCK OH GOD *CRASH*
     
  30. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    There is a good chance GoW4 would've run roughly the same in DX11 because MS is forcing every published title of theirs to be Win 10 exclusive to prop up the store. That being said, it will take a while for the benefit of DX12 to be seen. Most of the current games tack it on later in development. When games are developed with DX12 in mind early in development targetting DX12 hardware, we'll see the improvements. Just like every other DX. With long development times + games largely reusing the basis as sequels it may be a while until this is realized. I think we'll see some nice improvements with DX12 down the road, 1-2 years from now.
     
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  31. M76

    M76 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Me was a bad OS created with good intentions.

    10 is a good OS ruined by bad intentions and ulterior motives.
     
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  32. endalykt

    endalykt Limp Gawd

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    Stalker training:

    [​IMG]
     
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  33. DPI

    DPI Nitpick Police

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    Perfectly stated.
     
  34. tetris42

    tetris42 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, but here are some game comparisons (it's 2 years old, but still):

    http://www.techspot.com/review/1042-windows-10-vs-windows-8-vs-windows-7/page6.html

    The results are: not really much. In terms of performance, the difference between all 3 fall within the realm of testing variance. As for DX12, it has potential, but we're not going to see big performance increases except for games natively made for it. We're not going to see games natively made for it (aside from stuff published from MS natively) until so much of the market is on DX12, developers won't be missing out on a significant number of sales by doing so. Everything I just said was also being said back in 2006. While there are of course technical differences, DX12 is just DX10 all over again: add new features that need to be coded for natively to be taken real advange of, fragment the market by tying it to a controversial OS. The end result is almost nothing got made natively for DX10. I predict DX11 is all anyone is going to need until at least 2020.

    It's not even that simple, it's always been passive-aggressive. Prior to the Xbox, MS was actually doing a hell of a lot for PC gaming. DirectX was a big step forward so developers didn't have to program in separate versions for every piece of hardware out there. They were funding decent games, like Fury3, Dungeon Siege, Freelancer, Age of Empires etc. That all dried up after the Xbox, where it became clear PC gamers were a second class citizen to them at best.
     
  35. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I loved Stalker and never had an issue in Windows Me that wasn't present in Windows 98, Windows 98 wasn't exactly the most stable OS either...

    I must be the odd one out! :)
     
  36. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    I said that overall I wouldn't expect the difference between 7,8.1 and 10 in performance to be much different among them for existing stuff that's compatible among them. But if you are a gamer a like to play the latest and greatest stuff on new hardware, 10 is really the only option as more and more new stuff becomes targeted at 10. VR titles for instance, most are listed on Steam as compatible with 7 and above, but not all of them. If someone goes out and puts down the money for a Vive or Oculus most are going to want to make sure that they can play whatever comes along.

    The situation is different for different people but for me and the hardware I bought last year, there is no alternative to 10. If one is going to specifically stay away from 10 and 10 only compatible, that's their choice. But I didn't spend this kind of money to confine myself in that manner.
     
  37. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes if your a Linux head... always try Wine first. If you can run a rolling release distro to always have the newest kernels and other goodies. Run the latest Wine staging branch and tweak each game. There are quite a few games that run just fine (at least on NV hardware) in DX 11 and you only really sacrifice single digit frames per second. I know that sounds sacrilegious... but in many games it just doesn't really change the playing experience enough to be an issue.

    As I said earlier as well... a lot of games do have native Linux versions. Most of the games that don't have linux versions tend to be terrible console ports anyway. Real PC games ship on Linux. With the "windows" console ports your better off buying them for your playstation anyway as they tend to run like crap on windows......... ok that should get me some hate. lol
     
  38. heatlesssun

    heatlesssun [H]ard as it Gets

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    Yeah, this is nonsense. Sure there are bad ports. But there a some good ones a lot of very good cross-platform games that do well on the PC. Some might need some beefy rigs to hit 4k resolutions but try that on a console.
     
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  39. ChadD

    ChadD [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am sure there are a few ports worth playing. I stopped caring a few years back frankly. I have no incline to play all that many more of the same old shooter / first person type games that are mostly imo better played on a console anyway. I could care less about pushing a shooter I am going to play for a few hours and bench to 4k resolutions. For me PC games mean games like Civilization. Games like Civ / MOO keep me busy on the PC (in Linux). I can't remember the last non linux supporting game that I missed. The handful of games that don't get Linux support like those from Blizzard run well enough in wine. The only PC games I have found you end up having to bother with dual boots for are MMOs... although you can run some of them under wine just fine, for the most part your better off dual booting if your playing most MMOs.
     
  40. IcePickFreak

    IcePickFreak [H]ard|Gawd

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    No support for the major CAD programs in linux = a no-go for me. But apparently I should be running those on an Xbox so I can load up linux and get some real work done. :pompous:
     
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