Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

[ChadD]

All I asked was name a specific thing that's been added to the Linux kernel that enhances its support for desktop hardware. Ironically either you or some other pro-Linux people mentioned this last year: http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...touchscreen-will-soon-work-with-linux-1326229

Cause we don't care about the Surface. I think your the only Surface user in the world who has found their way to HardOCP.

Sure if you put something out their someone somewhere will find away to run Linux on it... that's a thing right.

Long before Surface was a MS fans wet dream... I was installing Linux on Laptops with touch with zero issues. MS loves to choose stupid hardware vendors to save a buck... I'm sure the surface touch interface is the software modem of its day. (its all in good fun man) lol

 

[heatlesssun]

Cause we don't care about the Surface.

Well you kept talking about improved kernel support in Linux and how it benefited desktops and never provided any specifics, so there's one. Hilarious that you would say this when it was Linux developers that added this to the kernel!

I think your the only Surface user in the world who has found their way to HardOCP.

LOL! A number of Surface users in this forum actually.

Sure if you put something out their someone somewhere will find away to run Linux on it... that's a thing right.

Long before Surface was a MS fans wet dream... I was installing Linux on Laptops with touch with zero issues.

Sure. Name one model of an x86 laptop with touch or a 2 in 1 that came with Linux and only Linux.

 

[ChadD]

Sure. Name one model of an x86 laptop with touch or a 2 in 1 that came with Linux and only Linux.

Ubuntu made a few... they didn't really sell. Truth is most people don't really care... and most of the "2in1" sales are to people buying on specs (and from the rather low choices these days) getting touch as a bonus.

There are plenty of chrome books with touch... so yes there are Linux machines shipping with touch. Its not some killer Windows only feature... if you ask Apple they invented it. lol (yes that is a joke)

 

[KarsusTG]

Sure. Name one model of an x86 laptop with touch or a 2 in 1 that came with Linux and only Linux.

I purchased a Huawei ultra portable that had a touch and swivel screen, although it only with the stylus. That was in 2008 (ish). Picked it up in Dubai. It had Ubuntu on it. Like Ubuntu 7 or 8. I ended up putting Vista on it which was a TERRIBLE idea.

 

[heatlesssun]

Ubuntu made a few... they didn't really sell. Truth is most people don't really care... and most of the "2in1" sales are to people buying on specs (and from the rather low choices these days) getting touch as a bonus.

There are plenty of chrome books with touch... so yes there are Linux machines shipping with touch. Its not some killer Windows only feature... if you ask Apple they invented it. lol (yes that is a joke)

I never said touch was some killer Windows only feature. And whatever the reason people buy Windows 2 in 1s and touch devices, they seem to be doing pretty well these days and are making up a growing percentage of Windows devices sold. OEMs are producing more models of them touch enabled Chromebooks currently. It's just another way to use the device that's fine if one is just web surfing or watching a video.

 

[Krenum]

If vulkan gains traction for the majority of the game market, bye bye windows for my home pc's.

Sounds great! But the powers that be wont let that happen.

 

[BulletDust]

The McDonalds folks, the ones that just need or want a web browser or basic content creatation capailitites, these are the ones that would have a MUCH easier time moving to Linux than a gamer or someone that needs top commercial productivity software where the cost of the software is piss compared the value that software brings.

I'm a fairly advanced user and a gamer when I can spare the time, I'm doing just fine and I read about a number of individuals switching to Linux that are doing just fine also - Not everyone sings the praises of Windows like you do, many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user. As stated, you massively over exaggerate the importance of Photoshop to the bulk of the computing population.

Played 90 minutes of RE 7 last, even the Windows Store version, ran smooth as butter at 4k maxed out except ambient occlusion. And there it is again, here's a top game that's getting very good reviews, actually runs fine from what I've read from people who've actually played it and it just doesn't matter to you. That's fine. But you can't go around talking about how top games don't matter and talk about how wonderful Linux is for gaming because there's a bunch of shovelware out there for it, the same shovelware and a whole lot more is out there for Windows.

I'm only telling you what I read on the [H] forums of all things mate. What you class as AAA doesn't really interest me, nor does it interest every user on [H].

So your 3.5% number did materialize out of nothing but the Steam Hardware survey is junk. However the Steam Hardware Survey is calculated, Valve has completely accurate data on the platforms accessing Steam and the clients that get downloaded. You and some other pro-Linux fans were suggesting that people dual boot Linux and download and play games under Linux because only when running Linux would Linux get credit for the download. So how can you make that argument and then say the Steam figures are pathetically skewed and inaccurate? If that's the case then your suggestion of dual booting would be meaningless if Steam's data is that bad.

SteamOS is not taken into consideration under the Steam hardware survey and few Linux users actually get offered to participate in the survey whatsoever, just look at r/Linux_gaming for proof of that. However! All things considered, the Linux user base is growing very well under Steam once one uses their intelligence and accepts that the overall growth of the Steam platform has also increased considerably.

Let's see that point whizz past your head again.

Furthermore, my 3.5% (actually about 3.8%) did not materalize out of nowhere and I provided links substantiating my claims in other threads on this bullshit topic - According to yourself that's not good enough as only links that highlight negativity in relation to Linux will be accepted as valid arguments by yourself (even though such links aren't necessarily negative in the slightest!).

 

[BulletDust]

Sounds great! But the powers that be wont let that happen.

The powers that be may not have a choice as they can't outspend Linux.

 

[jwcalla]

You mean if you are doing Linux Software Dev.

Actually, no. I didn't mean "Linux Software Dev". I'm pretty sure I knew what I meant.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm a fairly advanced user and a gamer when I can spare the time, I'm doing just fine and I read about a number of individuals switching to Linux that are doing just fine also - Not everyone sings the praises of Windows like you do, many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user.

How is it respecting users to tell them give up in many cases around here many thousands of dollars in software and expensive hardware just to power those games? That's not respect, that's contempt.

As stated, you massively over exaggerate the importance of Photoshop to the bulk of the computing population.

But you're the one talking about "McDonalds" users. I've stated many times, if you don't have a lot of demands for things like games or Photoshop, you're much more likely to be happy with Linux than the users you're telling to forfeit stuff.

I'm only telling you what I read on the [H] forums of all things mate. What you class as AAA doesn't really interest me, nor does it interest every user on [H].

It certainly interest the users in the GPU/CPU forums that build PCs to play the latest and greatest game. That's what a great deal of the content on [H]ardOCP is about.

SteamOS is not taken into consideration under the Steam hardware survey and few Linux users actually get offered to participate in the survey whatsoever, just look at r/Linux_gaming for proof of that. However! All things considered, the Linux user base is growing very well under Steam once one uses their intelligence and accepts that the overall growth of the Steam platform has also increased considerably.

Let's see that point whizz past your head again.

I never whizzed by that point. You keep ignoring that Steam by its nature has exact and accurate numbers on platforms and game downloads, it has to by the way the Steam works. So however accurate the published Steam Hardware survey is, Valve has the numbers. Period. That's not up for debate. So why would Valve publish numbers that show Linux going no where if Steam sales and usage were radically different?

Furthermore, my 3.5% (actually about 3.8%) did not materalize out of nowhere and I provided links substantiating my claims in other threads on this bullshit topic - According to yourself that's not good enough as only links that highlight negativity in relation to Linux will be accepted as valid arguments by yourself (even though such links aren't necessarily negative in the slightest!).

All I've said is that different sources have different numbers. When it comes to gaming on Steam at least I think the Steam Hardware Survey is probably fairly close to Steams sales and download data because if the numbers were radically different then that would be PURPOSELY hurting Linux in gaming. I see no reason for Steam to publish crap numbers when it has the data to publish EXACT numbers in regards to the platforms connecting and downloading from Steam. Those numbers, those exact numbers, do not need the survey client.

 

[ChadD]

I never said touch was some killer Windows only feature. And whatever the reason people buy Windows 2 in 1s and touch devices, they seem to be doing pretty well these days and are making up a growing percentage of Windows devices sold. OEMs are producing more models of them touch enabled Chromebooks currently. It's just another way to use the device that's fine if one is just web surfing or watching a video.

Well you have made a point in a few threads now of saying touch doesn't work with Linux or something like that.

The 2 in 1s are growing for 2 reasons... 1) they don't make much else... therefor most machines sold have touch like it or not. 2) when everything else you make is shrinking, the one that has a small bit of growth shines brighter.

Yes I agree its not a bad feature, its just not windows only its a standard computer thing these days. Pretty much everyone is including touch screens... which I'm sure mostly has to do with the screen manufacturers making lots of touch screens. If your a manufacturer and your screen supply company says we have X high end screens and will sell them for $100 a pop in orders of 10,000 and we have Y not quite as high end with touch and where selling them for $80 in orders of 10,000. Guess what screens end up in that companies systems. (if its what they are mass producing right now its really is likely cheaper for a lot of them to put a touch screen in due to volume production in the 5 or 6 screen factories that supply the majority of the OEMs screens.)

 

[ChadD]

The powers that be may not have a choice as they can't outspend Linux.

You would think considering the PS4 is running FreeBSD the gaming companies would get on bored a little faster then they are.

A couple factors I guess... one of them is perception. I think a lot of larger game studios still view the Linux market as a market not willing to spend money. (I buy a lot more steam games for Linux then I ever did for windows though so hopefully they come around). I think another factor though is the simple fact that Microsoft for the last few years has been showering a lot of the larger studios with cash and sweet heart royalty deals to produce Xbox (windows) exclusives and timed releases ect. The MS Xbox division can't shut down fast enough for my liking... you would think after so many years of losses their share holders would demand a change. As a guy who loves games I really hope their scorpion box falls flat on its face and MS at lasts gets their grubby hands out of the market. It would be the best thing to happen to PC gaming in a long time.

 

[ManofGod]

The kernel is the kernel. Doesn't matter if its running in a phone a server or my laptop or desktop. The kernel is the kernel... and anything that runs it sees the benefit. Which is why MS dumping the windows kernel for the Linux kernel is just a matter of time. They can't spend enough money to keep up with the pace of Linux development at this point. The more time that passes the more that will compound. If MS doesn't already have an internal version of windows running on the Linux kernel I would be shocked. The main stumbling block of a switch would be the file system... MS would at last have to dump NTFS. It would make upgrading a pain. Still they are going to have to do that sooner or later anyway, they can't keep selling a "modern" OS with a 20+ year old horrid file system. Granted the rise of the SSD has masked some of its deepest flaws that require constant defragging... still its a sub standard file system and won't be missed.

Dude, Microsoft is not replacing their kernel with a linux kernal but, thanks for the chuckle I got out of that. No, they do not have an internal version of Windows running on the Linux kernel which, by the way, is what Linux is, the kernel itself. Therefore, you are trying to convince us that Windows will be built on Linux. LOL! That is very delusional to say the least.

 

[Spaceninja]

I'm running Linux on my desktop at work and my laptop at home. My gaming machine is running Win 8.1. Honestly 8.1 is fine, they patch in security updates, its rock solid and all of my hardware works perfectly. I'll probably continue using it for as long as I can get away with. I liked 10 when it first came out, but then they decided it needed new features and it all went to hell.

 

[BulletDust]

How is it respecting users to tell them give up in many cases around here many thousands of dollars in software and expensive hardware just to power those games? That's not respect, that's contempt.

God!

I'm not telling anyone to do anything! The topic of this thread is "Thinking about Windows alternatives", I'm discussing a Windows alternative! WTF is wrong with your comprehension skills?! Furthermore, as stated time, and time, and time again - You do not need Windows to push some overpriced waste of money $8000.00 PC!

But you're the one talking about "McDonalds" users. I've stated many times, if you don't have a lot of demands for things like games or Photoshop, you're much more likely to be happy with Linux than the users you're telling to forfeit stuff.

I'll say it again.

Windows is the McDonalds of operating systems.

I never whizzed by that point. You keep ignoring that Steam by its nature has exact and accurate numbers on platforms and game downloads, it has to by the way the Steam works. So however accurate the published Steam Hardware survey is, Valve has the numbers. Period. That's not up for debate. So why would Valve publish numbers that show Linux going no where if Steam sales and usage were radically different?

No idea! You tell me. We know SteamOS is not included in stats, we know Linux usage is growing when considering that Steam's userbase overall has grown?! I have no idea what Steam are up to any more than you do.

All I've said is that different sources have different numbers. When it comes to gaming on Steam at least I think the Steam Hardware Survey is probably fairly close to Steams sales and download data because if the numbers were radically different then that would be PURPOSELY hurting Linux in gaming. I see no reason for Steam to publish crap numbers when it has the data to publish EXACT numbers in regards to the platforms connecting and downloading from Steam. Those numbers, those exact numbers, do not need the survey client.

We know Steam's statistics are flawed, yet they show Linux usage to be growing considering the fact that overall Steam's userbase has grown - I provided linked articles evidencing this fact in other threads, you choose to ignore them as you seem to believe that Steam's statistics are 100% accurate - And it's obvious they're not!

 

[heatlesssun]

The powers that be may not have a choice as they can't outspend Linux.

Yeah, something this get weird.

Well you have made a point in a few threads now of saying touch doesn't work with Linux or something like that.

The 2 in 1s are growing for 2 reasons... 1) they don't make much else... therefor most machines sold have touch like it or not. 2) when everything else you make is shrinking, the one that has a small bit of growth shines brighter.

Yes I agree its not a bad feature, its just not windows only its a standard computer thing these days. Pretty much everyone is including touch screens... which I'm sure mostly has to do with the screen manufacturers making lots of touch screens. If your a manufacturer and your screen supply company says we have X high end screens and will sell them for $100 a pop in orders of 10,000 and we have Y not quite as high end with touch and where selling them for $80 in orders of 10,000. Guess what screens end up in that companies systems. (if its what they are mass producing right now its really is likely cheaper for a lot of them to put a touch screen in due to volume production in the 5 or 6 screen factories that supply the majority of the OEMs screens.)

I've probably looked in installing Linux on a 2 in 1 or tablet more than the pro-Linux folks that beat me up on this. I've actually done an Ubuntu install on a Surface Pro 3 about two years ago. The situation from looking at it over the holidays for a bit seems to have improved but it's far from something remotely close to 100%. And I'm not blaming Linux, that's something Intel and Microsoft would have to work on to make work well. So no, not a killer feature on Windows but Windows 10's hybrid UI in combination with hardware like the Surface line, yeah, it's unique in x86. There's touch in Chromebooks but pen support isn't really there without Android support and besides the Samsung Note Series there's not that many Android devices with pens these days.

As for 2 in 1 growth, I tend to agree, I've made the point myself about the overall new PC market shrinking though laptops in general are doing ok and PC gaming hardware is doing well. I've been saying for a while that the PC market in units is shrinking but the niche stuff like gaming PCs and 2 in 1s will probably continue to outperform the general PC market.

 

[ChadD]

Dude, Microsoft is not replacing their kernel with a linux kernal but, thanks for the chuckle I got out of that. No, they do not have an internal version of Windows running on the Linux kernel which, by the way, is what Linux is, the kernel itself. Therefore, you are trying to convince us that Windows will be built on Linux. LOL! That is very delusional to say the least.

If you think so. MS has been preparing you and the other MS certificate holders for a few years now. They have not been hiding the fact. Even after they add Linux subsystems, and make big shows about rolling out SQL server on Linux. The die hards still don't get it.

Microsofts own cloud services already run on Linux.

Microsoft has updated its windows server file systems... no they are not running the Linux kernel for the masses yet. Its only a matter of time. MS looses more and more large contracts to Linux every year. Windows 2012 was likely the last "windows" kernel server OS from MS. They tried to address many of windows shortcomings ReFS was a good move and it isn't a terrible OS (ya ok it is).... the next version is very possibly going to be the if you can't beat them join them version. People that buy / Run servers don't do upgrades they don't care about file system changes. If they use Microsoft software that is important to them... MS has already done all the work of making things like SQL run in Linux. For most of them it will be a relief as for most of their biggest clients they are already operating in mixed environments and in many cases are slowly phasing out as much of their MS running hardware as they can.

After MS switches the servers over... it will be that much inevitable they will do the same thing with consumer windows. Its the only logical move for them on the mobile front if they ever take another crack at that. It would make more sense then most Microsoft Fan club card holders realize. Yes the upgrade could be a bit messy for home users... however MS has also teased how this is going to go with their recent dabble with ARM hardware and TRANSLATION layers. The exact sort of things you need if your going to say translate old code in real time to run on a different kernel then it was designed for.

Now Microsoft Linux kernel... isn't going to run Gnome or KDE. It will run a "windows" desktop environment it won't look any different to end users. Accept it will completely change things for MS. Its the fastest way for them to catch up in all the markets they are loosing hold off Server and Mobile.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm not telling anyone to do anything! The topic of this thread is "Thinking about Windows alternatives", I'm discussing a Windows alternative! WTF is wrong with your comprehension skills?! Furthermore, as stated time, and time, and time again - You do not need Windows to push some overpriced waste of money $8000.00 PC!

Now you're just playing semantics. You were the one that said "many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user." I'm guessing a lot more people are not willing to forfeit what they spent money one because someone on the internet thinks Linux is awesome for gaming. Because if it were, why would anyone have to forfeit anything?

I'll say it again.

Windows is the McDonalds of operating systems.

But the most advanced Windows users are the ones that are the ones that would have the most problems using Linux due to lack of software support. Debating this is silly when right here, that's what MULTIPLE people are saying over and over.

No idea! You tell me. We know SteamOS is not included in stats, we know Linux usage is growing when considering that Steam's userbase overall has grown?! I have no idea what Steam are up to any more than you do.

We know Steam's statistics are flawed, yet they show Linux usage to be growing considering the fact that overall Steam's userbase has grown - I provided linked articles evidencing this fact in other threads, you choose to ignore them as you seem to believe that Steam's statistics are 100% accurate - And it's obvious they're not!

No matter what that survey says yes, Steam has to have 100% accurate information on the platforms and clients being downloaded. You can argue against that survey all you want but you cannot argue against this. You went out of your way to PROVE how this works with the suggestion that people dual boot Linux and play games in Linux so that Linux would get the credit. You're trying to have it both ways.

 

[ChadD]

I've probably looked in installing Linux on a 2 in 1 or tablet more than the pro-Linux folks that beat me up on this. I've actually done an Ubuntu install on a Surface Pro 3 about two years ago. The situation from looking at it over the holidays for a bit seems to have improved but it's far from something remotely close to 100%. And I'm not blaming Linux, that's something Intel and Microsoft would have to work on to make work well. So no, not a killer feature on Windows but Windows 10's hybrid UI in combination with hardware like the Surface line, yeah, it's unique in x86. There's touch in Chromebooks but pen support isn't really there without Android support and besides the Samsung Note Series there's not that many Android devices with pens these days.

As for 2 in 1 growth, I tend to agree, I've made the point myself about the overall new PC market shrinking though laptops in general are doing ok and PC gaming hardware is doing well. I've been saying for a while that the PC market in units is shrinking but the niche stuff like gaming PCs and 2 in 1s will probably continue to outperform the general PC market.

Due to the nature of Linux kernels aren't always rolled out day and date for most distros. Ubunutu is one of those slow to update the kernel distros. For most people they believe this makes things more stable. (running on a kernel that has been tested and retested and proven to work). The latest Ubuntu is almost always on a kernel version that is anywhere from 6 months to 2 years old. (so its possible when you tried your Ubunutu was already a year or two out of date to start with) It can make dealing with stuff that came out that day a pain. Can't deny that fact... the same is true of windows. Had you tried to install windows 7 on your Surface would likely have had the same issues with drivers. If your going to be running new hardware best to go with a rolling release distro like Arch and its off shoots like Manjaro... or OpenSuse tumbleweed (rolling).

MS surface is unique sure... I'm not really convinced it will be around all that long though myself. MS has a long history of creating some interesting products, only to have another company come around and do it right at which point MS bows out. To their credit they have stuck with the Surface longer then I expected when they launched it, I really thought it was their next Zune. To be honest I'm still sort of thinking it will be.... I still have a felling Google is going to spring some high end chrome books on MS at some point. I think google has been biding their time going after that market not wanting to start a full on war with MS quite yet.

 

[ChadD]

Now you're just playing semantics. You were the one that said "many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user." I'm guessing a lot more people are not willing to forfeit what they spent money one because someone on the internet thinks Linux is awesome for gaming. Because if it were, why would anyone have to forfeit anything?

There are still almost twice as many movies on DVD as there are on Blu Ray. I guess you would be really stupid to upgrade.

Its not the same OS man... no its not going to run every single windows game. It runs most of the best actual PC games though.(as in not shipping for Xbone / PS4 as well) Most of the "AAA" titles people complain about are from companies being PAID by Microsoft. Yes I know many of them come out on Playstation as well. Still MS is pumping a lot of money into those studios to make sure their OS remains the "PC gaming" OS.

Which is why I say do yourself a HUGE favor... and run those games in FreeBSD. (on your Playstation 4)

 

[heatlesssun]

There are still almost twice as many movies on DVD as there are on Blu Ray. I guess you would be really stupid to upgrade.

This analogy makes zero sense. The main reason I upgrade PCs, like many folks around here, is to play games, games that I have no option to buy for Linux.

Its not the same OS man... no its not going to run every single windows game. It runs most of the bast actual PC games though.

Linux doesn't support the first major came to out this year in Resident Evil 7.

Most of the "AAA" titles people complain about are from companies being PAID by Microsoft. Yes I know many of them come out on Playstation as well. Still MS is pumping a lot of money into those studios to make sure their OS remains the "PC gaming" OS.

No, that doesn't add up. Steam added Windows titles 4 to 1 last year compared to Linux, most were indie shovelware.

Which is why I say do yourself a HUGE favor... and run those games in FreeBSD. (on your Playstation 4)

Why in the hell would I run games on a PS4 that have Windows versions with the kind of hardware I'm using now? I can get being pro-Linux but really, this forum is full of people that spend money and overclock and delid and custom water cool to play games on a PC. If Linux were as good as you say all the people who do these things, who would have the skills to run Linux, would gladly use Linux to power all of this stuff for their gaming needs.

 

[Snowdog]

Using your logic... we should still be listing to music on Cassette tapes and watching movies on VHS.

When a better format comes along early adopters have less "choice"... yep sounds right.

Only this isn't launch day for the Compact Disc... where there where 2 discs to choose form. This is Linux year 26...

No, your faulty analogy is not my logic. Shifting Audio to different formats is easy, and if a new one comes along that is actually better, we can switch with relative ease.
Software OTOH, does shift easily, maybe never.

Linux is NOT better. It's just what you prefer. You have to stop confusing your preferences, with facts. Leave that to Trump.

Early adopters? Didn't your point out this is Linux year 26. How is it still early adopter time?

 

[chaos4u]

I just wanted to add that i recently setup a new dell Dell Latitude E5570 i7 stuck a 1tb ssd in it upgraded it to 16gb of ram i also ensured it had a touch screen.

doing my tests on it i stuck linux mint 18 cinnamon on it .

i had to update the kernel (which was trival took less than 5 minutes) but now the laptop has full support for touch.

adding cross over to it got adobe photoshop working and sound forge working . (also tested world of warcraft it works, could be better as it needs a real gaming card )

and now with the release of wine 2.0 it can run even more proprietary windows applications.

barring drm content from certain sites linux is pretty much ready to replace windows.

looking at the recent tests of clear linux the bench marks show it is just a few marks lower than win 10 in most applications.

and looking at the filesystem windows is long lost in this department as in just about every bench mark ntfs comes up extremely short compared to faster filesystems.

microsoft has dropped the ball, lost site, of its user base and is now chasing some imaginary goals that has little to do with making a operating system.

and the longer microsft stays on this ill advised path of self destruction the quicker linux will surpass windows.

and we will start seeing articles asking why are we still using windows when there is clearly better operating systems to work and play with.

 

[heatlesssun]

i had to update the kernel (which was trival took less than 5 minutes) but now the laptop has full support for touch.

I'm looking around for a Linux distro that'll work on an Surface Pro or Surface Book. When I've read around at least for those two, full touch support basically meant "ok the touch screen works". It's a bit more to is than that. Flick scrolling and pinch zoom seen to be finicky from app to app. Not that it's perfect with Windows because once again with desktop apps it's app dependent though basics like flick scrolling tend to work in most apps.

 

[Snowdog]

If you think so. MS has been preparing you and the other MS certificate holders for a few years now. They have not been hiding the fact. Even after they add Linux subsystems, and make big shows about rolling out SQL server on Linux. The die hards still don't get it.

Microsofts own cloud services already run on Linux.

I think you need to look in the mirror to see a diehard, or more like Zealot.

Microsoft is becoming more of a multi-platform company. They no longer try to without products from other platforms. Instead they just sell products on all viable platforms. It's a much more sensible way to conduct business.

In line with that Microsoft reversed direction and developed Office Apps for iPad/iPhone. That doesn't mean the are adopting iOS as their mobile OS.

Similarly developing server product for Linux makes sense, because Linux is the leading server platform.

Thinking Microsoft is going to replace the Windows Kernel with the Linux Kernel is just Delusional.

It's not based on any kind of evidence, just your Linux colored glasses.

 

[BulletDust]

Now you're just playing semantics. You were the one that said "many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user." I'm guessing a lot more people are not willing to forfeit what they spent money one because someone on the internet thinks Linux is awesome for gaming. Because if it were, why would anyone have to forfeit anything?

Thread topic:

Thinking About Windows 10 Alternatives

You just can't accept that not everyone on [H] want's to run Windows can you?

[H] has one forum devoted to gaming, therefore it's 100% safe to assume that [H]OCP is a PC enthusiast, hardware and overclocking forum, not specifically a gaming forum.

 

[heatlesssun]

Thread topic:


You just can't accept that not everyone on [H] want's to run Windows can you?

[H] has one forum devoted to gaming, therefore it's 100% safe to assume that [H]OCP is a PC enthusiast, hardware and overclocking forum, not specifically a gaming forum.

I know what the topic is, I read the OP article. And alternatives need to be viable. Thurrott, if you know anything about him, isn't a PC gamer, he never even covered gaming in his article. It's not a matter of wanting to run Windows. It's a matter HAVING to run Windows to use leading edge hardware and playing the latest and greatest titles. There is no remotely viable alternative to it in PC gaming at this time beyond casual gamers. For the McDonalds crowd that doesn't care about this kind of stuff, Linux is far more viable. I'm stating what's completely obvious to anyone that plays a lot of PC games and isn't the kind of gaming experience that is major focus of [H]ardOCP.

 

[tetris42]

Very few people need Photoshop or even know what it is, even

I think you'd be surprised how many people "know what it is." As for users, they get 5+ million sales a year. Yes, small in comparison to the population of the world, but kind of a significant chunk. And it's more than just Photoshop that people are needing on Linux

if there is anyone that could ruin linux it is google. It would be easy to use, friendly, big focus on software options and gaming

Sorry, this was just too much fun to quote out of context.

As for games I have been more then happy... been playing the heck out of Civ 5 and MOO for now, but I have 10 or 12 games or so that I haven't really played yet that I have bought during steam sales. Hmmm perhaps today I'll go and play the latest border lands now that am thinking about it I still haven't... but ya 80% of my steam library is Linux compatible.

Saying Linux isn't windows = because it doesn't have every single console port day one isn't really a knock for most PC gamers. I'm sorry but games like Resident Evil... man buy them for your PS4 you'll be happier, cause goodness knows its going to run like crap on the PC for at least 6 months till they fix all the bugs. Or decided to pull the PC version and refund your money. (ok that was low but hey its not like there has only been one "AAA" PC title that has done that). Real PC games end up on both platforms... and believe it or not there are some really great Linux only Indy games.

You're looking at this the wrong way. If you're thinking gaming on Linux is good enough FOR YOU, that's an inward approach that doesn't do anyone any good, except you. When I recommend what hardware people run, I don't pick what I want, I pick something based on what the actual person is looking for. If they don't play games or do anything 3D intensive, I'll steer them towards integrated graphics. If ALL they do is games, I'm not going to tell them to get a 6 core CPU with 32GB of RAM. The way to win people over is to think about what the OTHER person wants. For gamers, it's easy. They want speed and they want to be able to run their games. All of them, or at least damn close. Linux doesn't do that. You have 10 or 12 games you haven't played yet, 80% of your library is Linux compatible. I have a list of literally hundreds of games that have caught my eye from screenshots or descriptions that I plan to eventually go through and research and see if I want to buy / play them. If I couldn't run 20% on my list, that would be a slap in the face, but I imagine the actual number would be a lot higher for Linux. I'm not against Linux gaming, I'm against Linux zealots acting like that's all you need. I think Linux is entirely adequate for light gamers or people who only play a few titles AND those titles also run on Linux. If more Linux advocates could just come out and say that it's good for light gaming, but not ready for enthusiasts, you'd see half the debates on Linux v. Windows that you do.

I'm a fairly advanced user and a gamer when I can spare the time, I'm doing just fine and I read about a number of individuals switching to Linux that are doing just fine also - Not everyone sings the praises of Windows like you do, many people are more than happy to forfeit some of their gaming library in order to use an OS that allows for respect to the user.

All 1% of them, going by Steam surveys.

I'll say it again.

Windows is the McDonalds of operating systems.

It's more like the Amazon of operating systems. You can get basically anything you want on it, even if it's run by ruthless bastards. At McDonald's you can only get cheap fast food, not a vast spectrum of almost all known cuisines out there. Windows, you can get basically any software you could ever want.

Which is why I say do yourself a HUGE favor... and run those games in FreeBSD. (on your Playstation 4)

This isn't the first time I've seen this, but this is how you know you're dealing with a zealot. People support Linux because of the freedom and options it gives you, I get that. So a Linux user endorses you to go buy a CONSOLE to play your games before playing them on Windows. Oh sure, consoles are all about the freedom. Run at the resolution and framerate you want, hook up any kind of controller you want, mod it, go triple screen with it, etc. Total freedom in the console, because Linux.

 

[Snowdog]

Thread topic:


You just can't accept that not everyone on [H] want's to run Windows can you?

[H] has one forum devoted to gaming, therefore it's 100% safe to assume that [H]OCP is a PC enthusiast, hardware and overclocking forum, not specifically a gaming forum.

Did you actually RTFP? I bet you didn't.

It really isn't a story about switching. It's more about addressing some of the grief that Win10 is causing, compared to the alternatives. The author concludes that Windows 10 is still the best choice for him. He just lists the alternative in what he calls "increasing order of craziness". Remember, Windows 10 is #0 on this list, these are just how the rest of the alternatives place in decreasing order of viability.

#1: Windows 8
#2: Windows 7
#3: Mac
#4: Chromebook
#5: Linux

So, Linux is the last choice, after previous versions of Windows, after Macs and even After Chromebooks.

You have to accept is that Linux is only appeals to a fringe audience on the desktop.

I really think many zealots do realize that, which is why they are always going into "hard sell" mode trying to push Linux. The smaller the group, the louder they feel like they need to yell.

FWIW. My plan is just stick with Window 7 until Microsoft starts listing to customers, or 2020.

 

[BulletDust]

All 1% of them, going by Steam surveys.

You just love that Steam survey, don't ya? Even though SteamOS isn't counted and Linux users rarely get invited to participate! But it's Steam so it has to be spot on! Lol!

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

https://imgur.com/a/94HZe

Once again, that's the users we know of, there's many, many more that we have no statistics for whatsoever.

 

[BulletDust]

It's more like the Amazon of operating systems. You can get basically anything you want on it, even if it's run by ruthless bastards. At McDonald's you can only get cheap fast food, not a vast spectrum of almost all known cuisines out there. Windows, you can get basically any software you could ever want.

Hang on, the latest thing at McDonalds is that I can make my own burger!

Still sounds more like the McDonalds of OS's than Amazon to me? Taking care of those masses, not the best, not the worst - Just popular, especially with kids.

 

[chaos4u]

I'm looking around for a Linux distro that'll work on an Surface Pro or Surface Book. When I've read around at least for those two, full touch support basically meant "ok the touch screen works". It's a bit more to is than that. Flick scrolling and pinch zoom seen to be finicky from app to app. Not that it's perfect with Windows because once again with desktop apps it's app dependent though basics like flick scrolling tend to work in most apps.

i have not tested it but easystroke and Ink2Text/SHIP should be the tools needed to get gestures working .

but gestures is relatively new in the computing world and the developers are still messing about with this stuff so hardware, drivers, and software cohesion is pretty poor. and at the moment it seems some developers are making plugins to applications to enable gesture support.


one day we will get a standardized gesture system and then maybe just maybe gestures will work as expected across all applications and hardware.

from the looks of it if your willing to play you just might be able to get what your wanting on the surface all be it somewhat fiddly.

 

[tetris42]

You just love that Steam survey, don't ya? Even though SteamOS isn't counted and Linux users rarely get invited to participate! But it's Steam so it has to be spot on! Lol!

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp

https://imgur.com/a/94HZe

Once again, that's the users we know of, there's many, many more that we have no statistics for whatsoever.

Hey, you were specifically talking about GAMING, but fair points on what you're bringing up. So what are the real numbers? I found this:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-statistics-from-multiple-developers.2963
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...x-games-from-different-developers-part-4.5253

It's about 2 years old, but it looks like the real numbers are from 0.4% - 5%, with the average hovering around 1-2%. I'm sure the genre factors into it, as I imagine 4x games would get higher percentage points than something like racing ones. Point is, the numbers are so small it's the very definition of vocal minority. It's entirely possible more people are gaming on XP than on Linux. Again, I'd like to see that number change, but don't expect me to get optimistic about 1-2% of the market either.

 

[heatlesssun]

Still sounds more like the McDonalds of OS's than Amazon to me? Taking care of those masses, not the best, not the worst - Just popular, especially with kids.

LOL! You're funny. So Windows is McDonalds EXCEPT when there's something that it supports that Linux doesn't or you never heard of or don't use. Then it's just an esoteric thing that nobody cares about. Because Windows is the McDonalds of OSes. Just popular. Because it supports stuff you don't even know anything about?

 

[BulletDust]

Hey, you were specifically talking about GAMING, but fair points on what you're bringing up. So what are the real numbers? I found this:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/linux-game-sales-statistics-from-multiple-developers.2963
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/artic...x-games-from-different-developers-part-4.5253

It's about 2 years old, but it looks like the real numbers are from 0.4% - 5%, with the average hovering around 1-2%. I'm sure the genre factors into it, as I imagine 4x games would get higher percentage points than something like racing ones. Point is, the numbers are so small it's the very definition of vocal minority.

Awesome link! It actually proves that gaming under Linux is doing pretty damn good! Almost at OSX levels in 2014 with far less titles available under Steam! A vastly outdated link that doesn't really prove the current gaming usage under Linux whatsoever though.

 

[BulletDust]

LOL! You're funny. So Windows is McDonalds EXCEPT when there's something that it supports that Linux doesn't or you never heard of or don't use. Then it's just an esoteric thing that nobody cares about. Because Windows is the McDonalds of OSes. Just popular. Because it supports stuff you don't even know anything about?

Like One Note?

Still haven't come across an acquaintance or a client that uses it....

Doesn't really matter anyway though as there's Office online and that includes One Note.

 

[BulletDust]

And you miss my point, which isn't surprising and fit's in line with your past posts perfectly.

McDonalds isn't popular because it's good, it's popular because it's McDonalds (period). The same goes for Windows, popularity doesn't indicate better, especially when it's forced on users out of the box.

 

[tetris42]

Hang on, the latest thing at McDonalds is that I can make my own burger!

Still sounds more like the McDonalds of OS's than Amazon to me? Taking care of those masses, not the best, not the worst - Just popular, especially with kids.

I think you're missing the point. Yes, it's the most popular, but it has the most stuff and widest variety also. That's why I said Amazon is a better analogy; Amazon has almost everything I could think of to order online. McDonalds still just sells burgers and some extras. Windows may not be the best in and of itself, but it CONTINUES to be popular because it supports such a wide array of stuff.

The better question here is as a Desktop windows user, what am I MISSING OUT on by not being on Linux? I know I would have better security, but if I've never been hacked and run an antivirus / malware scan, that's not so relevant to me. I know you don't have the update nightmare you get on Win10, which is why I'm still on 7. I like the visual customization of Linux, but that's not enough by itself to make me want to switch. So as someone who mainly wants to run my wide variety of programs, what's the draw of Linux?

 

[Snowdog]

Awesome link! It actually proves that gaming under Linux is doing pretty damn good! Almost at OSX levels in 2014 with far less titles available under Steam! A vastly outdated link that doesn't really prove the current gaming usage under Linux whatsoever though.

Zealots are funny.

Averaging about 2% is not even marginal. It's like statistical noise.

 

[heatlesssun]

Like One Note?

Still haven't come across an acquaintance or a client that uses it....

Doesn't really matter anyway though as there's Office online and that includes One Note.

But Windows is McDonalds! How could Windows support anything unless it was popular but you don't know anything about it? There's plenty of people on this forum that use or have used OneNote. And it's on Windows, iOS, Android (Linux kernel!), macOS and the web.