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Agreed. Autos are better today than they have ever been.
It used to be that if you wanted better milage and you knew how to operate it, a manual transmission was the way to go. Now many manufacturers are dropping manuals from their lineups because they lower their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency) numbers.
They still aren't perfect though. Two things I hate about automatic transmissions:
1.) When you are going up a hill and you give it a little extra gas to maintain speed, and the transmission thinks "oh, he must want to accelerate" and downshifts.
2.) When you slam your foot on the accelerator and count to two seconds before it actually downshifts and you start going.
I drove Saabs with manual transmissions for many years. The manual + high pressure turbo always put a grin on my face (the front wheel drive, not so much, but you can't win 'em all). I never thought I'd own a car with an automatic. Then the last time I went car shopping in the summer of 2013 (first new car after Saab collapsed) I was looking around for a decent car at a price I was willing to pay with a manual.
My shopping criteria were mid to large size (Saab 9-5. BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Merc E class, Volvo S80 etc.) with a decently powerful engine and a manual transmission, preferably European, but open to other brands if they had that Euro-like road feel. I put my price limit at $30,000 for an about 3 year old off-lease. (I used to always be able to buy high speced Saabs for $20k or just above).
I couldn't find anything I wanted at all. They either didn't have manuals, had very basic engines, or WAY too many miles on them.
In the end I wound up disillusioned with where the car market was going, and just got a Volvo S80 T6. It's an automatic. (Volvo doesn't do manuals anymore, at least not in the U.S. market) has a low pressure turbo in a 3L straight 6, and AWD, so it has some grunt, but I wouldn't call it either fun to drive. I got used to it over time, but for the longest time I was very disappointed by its truck-like handling. The AWD with snow tires were great in the winter though. The automatic transmission in this car (a six speed I think?) shifts very smoothly, and doesn't suffer much from the "downshift going up a hill" problem, but it definitely has that lag between slamming your foot on the accelerator and going, that I hate.
The only benefit of this purchase is that when I have surgery on my left leg next week, I'll still be able to drive while I recover I would never have been able to do that with a manual.
When I pay off the Volvo this summer, I have no idea what I'm going to do next. I'll keep it for a while, to save up for the next down payment, but it's starting to show its age, and need pricy repairs at 130K miles. (I drive A LOT every year). I'd love to get a Tesla. I've drooled over the Model S since it was first announced. But they are still too expensive, even after tax credits (if those are still around?) and there isn't much in the way of gas savings to be had here in Massachusetts since we have some of the highest electric rates in the country.
I'm at a total loss as regards what comes next. I used to be a car enthusiast. Now, since I have become disillusioned and don't like anything on the market (within my budget) cars have just become grocery getters to me, and that makes me a bit sad.
Side note. I keep seeing all the luxury brands (and some regular brands) adding more and more gears to their automatic transmissions (some are up at 8 now, right?) presumably to improve their fuel economy. Why do they keep insisting on doing this instead of just going CVT? Having a CVT transmission is like having a infinite number of gears, and gets better acceleration and fuel milage out of the same engine with a traditional transmission.
Is it just because people are macho and want to hear their engines rev up and down with each shift?
Dude, I'm right there with you. I'm on my third Saab now, and have no idea what to get next. I'm also worried about availability of parts since they went out of business as i'm sitting at around 81k miles right now. like you, I put about 20-25k miles per year on a car, so at best, I figure i might have 2 years left.
I've been looking at a Subaru outback 3.6, Volvo XC 60 T6, Ford Edge Sport, and most recently I've taken a good look at the new Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. None of them even offer manual transmissions, and to be honest that doesn't bother me. Most of the time I just get on the highway and cruise until I need gas. Driving a manual vs an automatic doesn't make a bit of a difference to me if i'm distance driving.
Side note. I keep seeing all the luxury brands (and some regular brands) adding more and more gears to their automatic transmissions (some are up at 8 now, right?) presumably to improve their fuel economy. Why do they keep insisting on doing this instead of just going CVT? Having a CVT transmission is like having a infinite number of gears, and gets better acceleration and fuel milage out of the same engine with a traditional transmission.
Is it just because people are macho and want to hear their engines rev up and down with each shift?
I always heard CVTs were too fragile to link with a high powered engine.
Unless you get a DSG (rough riding) you'll never get the performance of a manual. But it takes a very skilled driver to extract it. Full auto's are slow and guess incorrectly as to the gear you need. You go into a corner with the wrong gear and you could be F'd when you need to torque steer because you went in too hot. And automatics, while close, aren't as efficient. Even sport mode is slow to shift sometimes and can override your decisions.
While auto's are getting really really close, and DSG's are pretty tempting (which is a computer controlled manual), manuals still hold an edge albiet slight one. Personally I like feeling connected to my car. My probe, my cougar, my corvette were all manuals and fun as heck to drive.
I realize electric vehicles can do what is basically PWM, but I wasn't aware this created large stress on components compared to IC engines. Do you have a source for this? I would think you could just mount a flywheel on an electric motor just the same like you do on a IC engine, it's not like IC engines are super smooth, you have large explosions occuring once every 4 strokes.WHY do most electric vehicles not have a transmission? Is it because of electric engine torque? Yes, but not the way you think. Power delivery in a gasoline engine is generally quite smooth. Opening the throttle adds more air and fuel which creates a reasonably gradual power increase that is furthermore smoothed out by the weight of the engine flywheel that stores rotational energy. Electric motors on the other hand are very on-off abrupt, like analog vs digital. Most transmissions, unless super beefy, would simply break.
Bad battery or bad starter... I rarely, if ever, have I been stranded with a manual stick.
I drive a stick in my work car, but it's an old Ford Escort & i'm pretty happy with it vs an auto. I hear coworkers sing the praise of new Electric cars as they'll never wear out since there's so few parts & I sit there thinking "yeah right, car companies have whole teams of engineers designing stuff to last just long enough to get out of warranty." The more complicated & computer tied-in it gets the less interested I am anymore.
Which Saab do you have? If it's not one of the new models for 2010 or 2011 right before they failed, parts shouldn't be an issue. Even for the 2010 and 2011 new models, mechanical parts are mostly made by 3rd party vendors and easily found using cross-reference part number tables.
The real problems arise if you have a new 2010 or 2011 model and need body parts. Those are either gone or in rather low supply, and it's not as if you are likely to have much luck junkyard hunting, because they weren't around long enough to sell a bunch of them.
I had a 2011 Saab 9-5 Turbo-4 Premium with the Tech package. Hands down the best car I've ever owned. The little 4 cyl was smaller than in my previous 9-5 Aero's but the turbo spooled up much faster, and with a software tune and E85 in the tank, it was more than fast enough. Great on gas for a car its size. I loved that car.
I decided to get rid of it after a car was damaged the rear chrome strip on the trunk lid. Turns out that chrome strip could only be bought together with the LED strip that went between the two tail lights. When I bought it, the dealer notified me I was lucky, because I got one of the last 5 of those part numbers in the world.
That's when I got scared and sold the car, and picked up my disappointing Volvo
my pictures from when I bought it
No other car I've ever owned got so many looks and comments, presumably because they were rare enough that no one had seen them before, and thought that it was something way more exotic than it was To this day it's the only car I've owned with a HUD on the windshield, directional headlights, and many other pretty damned cool features.
It's also the only car I ever bought new. Worst financial decision I've ever made, but both the best car I've ever owned and driven.
Exactly, you have many small explosions from many cylinders that are spaced out and apply pressure over a reasonably long period of time on the piston to drive the gearbox. A V8 is not going to suddenly fire all 8 cylinders simultaneously and break the gearbox. A big electric motor by contrast can go from 0RPM to 1000RPM in the blink of an eye. The source is common knowledge, so I'm sure you can google some examples. They may have found computerized solutions to this though, as what was a problem 15 years ago may be resolved now by electronics that can smooth out the electric motor.I realize electric vehicles can do what is basically PWM, but I wasn't aware this created large stress on components compared to IC engines. Do you have a source for this? I would think you could just mount a flywheel on an electric motor just the same like you do on a IC engine, it's not like IC engines are super smooth, you have large explosions occuring once every 4 strokes.
Electric motors have an efficiency curve, which you learn about with RC planes in particular when sizing them and the props. They absolutely have a peak power area that they are most efficient in. And regarding 0RPM torque, that prevents the need for a clutch/torque converter when coming to a stop, but not the need for a transmission.Electric motors have a lot of low end torque that IC engines do not have (for the same peak power rating). They also can generate torque at 0 rpm, which also eliminates the need for a torque converter/clutch.
Electric motors have a wider power range than an internal combustion engine. Their torque curve is flatter, but their efficiency curve is far from flat. There would be a lot to gain from a choice of gears. Imagine a Nissan LEAF with a 5-liter V8 engine and a 5-speed manual blocked in third gear. Performance would be the same as with the standard electric motor, but the efficiency would be terrible. It would be much better with a 2-liter and a choice of gears, and the same reasoning also applies to an electric drive, though to a significantly lesser degree. With a transmission offering several speeds, the Nissan LEAF could do with a smaller motor, and it would be more efficient because it would be possible to keep that motor within the most efficient RPM range. Do EV drivers want better performance and more range? Then just add gears.
Now this is driving a stick! LOL!
I have a manual in my Subaru WRX and I'm getting tired of it to be honest. Had to get it replaced earlier this year for $1500 in order to fix a persistent squeaking noise and the clutch action still isn't as smooth as when I first got the car.
Exactly, you have many small explosions from many cylinders that are spaced out and apply pressure over a reasonably long period of time on the piston to drive the gearbox. A V8 is not going to suddenly fire all 8 cylinders simultaneously and break the gearbox. A big electric motor by contrast can go from 0RPM to 1000RPM in the blink of an eye. The source is common knowledge, so I'm sure you can google some examples. They may have found computerized solutions to this though, as what was a problem 15 years ago may be resolved now by electronics that can smooth out the electric motor.
Electric motors have an efficiency curve, which you learn about with RC planes in particular when sizing them and the props. They absolutely have a peak power area that they are most efficient in. And regarding 0RPM torque, that prevents the need for a clutch/torque converter when coming to a stop, but not the need for a transmission.
Unlike an internal combustion engines, your legs produce about the same peak torque at 0RPM as they do at say 20RPM, and you don't have to worry if you stop moving them just like an electric motor. So why does your bicycle have a transmission? Because you can multiply the power of your legs at the sacrifice of speed.
There are also internal combustion engines that produce peak torque just above idle, and yet they too greatly benefit from transmissions. VW's 1.8 liter turbo produces peak torque at 1,700RPM, just 900 RPM above its idle speed. Yet it still makes sense not to shift into the next gear until about 5,500rpm. Why? Because of torque multiplication, where the multiplying factor of being in 1st gear is greater than the torque drop off as RPMs climb until about that RPM.
Also, a 7th generation Corvette can go from 0MPH to its top speed in 5th gear, as Jeremy Clarkson tested a few years back. So it too could operate without a gearbox just fine fixed in say 3rd or 4th gear, but it wouldn't work as well or be able to reach really high speeds. But, wait a second, why is it that most electric cars have such a low top speed?
Simple, again because they don't have a gearbox. So they put on the lowest gearing they can to reasonably hit a useful top speed without overspinning the motor, and just artificially cap it.
So an electric car with a gearbox would have:
1) Improved overall performance
2) Higher top speed
3) More torque at the wheels at low speed for towing
4) Potentially greater efficiency and thus range
Here's an article discussing how they are making electric specific transmissions, now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, mostly 3-speed and 4-speed designs:
http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-multi-speed-transmissions-electric-cars-107656.html
Manual transmission advantages:Manual transmission is way out of date imho, it surprises me there's still a market for it. At best it's a needless distraction, at worst a silly way to get into an accident.
As the technology improves, I'm sure the norm will at least be a low and high, but who knows... GM came up with a weird two motor solution so you have one motor up to a certain speed, and then a second motor kicks in for high speed. It changes gears somehow in this process, but not with a traditional gearbox... it was really weird. I forget how it works.You probably wouldn't need as many gears as a internal combustion engine, because the power band tends to be wider on electric motors, but having gears in an electric car could certainly be helpful.
Pretty sure that's how the Lexus LC Hybrid is going to work, but I'm too lazy to fact check myselfAs the technology improves, I'm sure the norm will at least be a low and high, but who knows... GM came up with a weird two motor solution so you have one motor up to a certain speed, and then a second motor kicks in for high speed. It changes gears somehow in this process, but not with a traditional gearbox... it was really weird. I forget how it works.
Manual transmission advantages:
6) Being able to anticipate gear selection (I can shift before I'm about to pass, instead of starting to pass and waiting for the automatic to realize I want it to downshift)
7) Greater control through engine braking
8) Greater control by "hanging" on to gears when appropriate
Hmmm, the automatics I've driven, because of a lack of direct connection to the gear its in (torque converter aka slushbox), prevented normal engine braking.
I drove a manual for 10 years, went automatic and never looked back. I don't know what "level of control" people think it really gives them other than a psychological fix. I guess some folks like manual windows and no power steering as well. For me, I'll take automatic and power everything.