The Slow Death Of The Manual Transmission

Megalith

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How sad will you guys be to see manual transmissions go? Or do some of you think shifting gears is overrated?

By the end of the next decade, my beloved manual transmission may no longer be an option. In the United States, gas-powered vehicles have been moving away from clutches for years. The perpetually growing SUV (which are almost exclusively fitted with automatic transmissions) market is accelerating that trend. But the real death of the stick shift will be electric vehicles. Because of the nature of electric motors, a gear box is unnecessary. These cars are capable of accessing their torque at all times. You don't have to downshift to fourth to access the extra power needed to pass a slow-moving car; you just stomp on the accelerator, and there it is.
 
I don't see the point of manual in terms of no one wants it, no one wants to buy it...so I wouldn't buy one by choice... That being said, manual gives you tons more control over the car, that is for sure.
 
As much as I like driving a manual - in ideal conditions - I sure am grateful for an automatic when I'm stuck in traffic going uphill on the highway to Santa Clarita a few times a week. With the rise of the electric, I have no doubt that we'll see the disappearance of the gearbox. I'm sure we'll get a few knockoff electric 'shifters' that give you the sensation of shifting gears, but these will be shortlived and remembered only as a weird period in automotive history. It will be interesting, though, to see how the enthusiast crowd eventually reacts to the change.
 
I learned to drive on a manual transmission car, and my first 2 cars were manual transmission. Then I got lazy with driving and stayed that way. I drive an automatic now.

It's a useful skill to have if you ever need to drive someone else's car and it's stick.
 
I'm one of those few that is willing to live with the occasional traffic jam to be able to row through my own gears. It's just so satisfying as an experience for me, other gear heads may agree.

To add to that, I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of acceleration to have said experience and control over the car. Technology advancements have already made it pointless in super high end cars, but it's going to take time for all of that to trickle down. Even then, I lament the day that I no longer have access to a stick shift.
 
I know they are fading away, but I would not buy a ICE powered sports car without one. Then again, I buy for the enjoyment of the experience of driving, not the lap times.

A BMW with a manual is my fun car, an automatic 71 Lincoln MkIII is my grocery getter, and my motorcycle is my daily driver, so I am prolly a bit odd.
 
I don't see the point of manual in terms of no one wants it, no one wants to buy it...so I wouldn't buy one by choice... That being said, manual gives you tons more control over the car, that is for sure.

It's not always that no one wants it, but dealers don't order many, and nobody wants it enough to wait for a special order. Or it's not available with the other options/packages, or one spouse would like it, but the other would hate it, so automatic it is.
 
I drove a manual for 10 years, went automatic and never looked back. I don't know what "level of control" people think it really gives them other than a psychological fix. I guess some folks like manual windows and no power steering as well. For me, I'll take automatic and power everything.
 
Fact is it's cheaper to make an auto transmission now as manual is the low runs they do at the manufacturing plants now. The extra cost for an auto is something that should have stopped and actually gone the other way about 5 years ago.

Electric cars would benefit from a transmission, even a two speed, but they go fast enough as it is. They could go a lot faster if they had gearing. Faster being top speed.

Only problem with autos right now is the micky mouse crap that they are doing. Everyone knows not to get an auto focus as it's guaranteed to fail.
 
A dual clutch auto with manual override is the best option. You get the benefits of an auto transmission, you can shift when you want to if you don't like how the computer does it, and you can change gear faster than any human.
 
I drove a manual for 10 years, went automatic and never looked back. I don't know what "level of control" people think it really gives them other than a psychological fix. I guess some folks like manual windows and no power steering as well. For me, I'll take automatic and power everything.

Unless you get a DSG (rough riding) you'll never get the performance of a manual. But it takes a very skilled driver to extract it. Full auto's are slow and guess incorrectly as to the gear you need. You go into a corner with the wrong gear and you could be F'd when you need to torque steer because you went in too hot. And automatics, while close, aren't as efficient. Even sport mode is slow to shift sometimes and can override your decisions.

While auto's are getting really really close, and DSG's are pretty tempting (which is a computer controlled manual), manuals still hold an edge albiet slight one. Personally I like feeling connected to my car. My probe, my cougar, my corvette were all manuals and fun as heck to drive.
 
I think being able to drive stick is awesome. I'll stick with manual anytime. A part of me believes being able to drive stick makes you a better driver but also a better multitasker.
 
An automatic will upshift at the worst time and then downshift again, possibly once and then another gear to make up for the lost speed. Irritating as hell. I have little experience with CVT but it might be better, ie, won't do the drama I just described.
I don't know what "level of control" people think it really gives them other than a psychological fix.
 
Automatic needs a completely different driving style. It's like you're wrestling with the transmission, to try to get it to do what you want. Like when you want to quickly speed up a little, if you push too hard on the accelerator the transmission starts changing gears from 8th to 2nd, and that takes a lot of time. In most cases you'd be better off not changing gears at all, or only changing one or two gears, and the intended manoeuvre would be over before the automatic is halfway trough the gears. So what you do instead is only press the accelerator enough to start accelerating but the transmission doesn't start shifting yet. It's a thin line. You're forcing the transmission to do what you want by tricking it. So that's what I mean by not being in control with an automatic.

Yes there is manual mode on most modern automatics, but those are painful most of the time. You still only can go trough the gears sequentially, and the delay is astronomical, even on many sports cars with paddle shifters.

Nothing substitutes the satisfaction you get from each perfect shift in a manual.

I don't mind an automatic, I'll drive it all day long, but I'd never get one as my own. In fact occasionally I do drive an automatic all day long as part of work.
 
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An automatic will upshift at the worst time and then downshift again, possibly once and then another gear to make up for the lost speed. Irritating as hell. I have little experience with CVT but it might be better, ie, won't do the drama I just described.

Most CVTs are programmed to pretend to have gears (for user comfort), so I'd expect similar behavior from them too.
 
I think being able to drive stick is awesome. I'll stick with manual anytime. A part of me believes being able to drive stick makes you a better driver but also a better multitasker.
I wouldn't give a license to anyone who can't drive a stick. But where I live, if you learn on an automatic, you're only allowed to drive an automatic with your license. So people are forced to learn them if they don't want that restriction on their license.
 
I have a fully built auto , with stall, Lazer cut valve body, upgraded clutches and custom tuned. It does pretty much what I want it to do. No delay in shifts and if I punch it , it will shift so hard and fast it will about break your neck lol also shifts hard just driving around also , but you don't need comfort in a play car. I sold my last manual about 2 years ago now. They are fun and feels like your doing more but in my play car I wouldn't want to worrie about shifting and keeping it on the road with my foot in it.
 
I cant drive stick :(


maye we cn get a manual automati transmissio nwher eyou just change the Settings/behavioer of the autmoatic gear.
like set it to drivem ode or accleration mode etc
 
Because of the nature of electric motors, a gear box is unnecessary. These cars are capable of accessing their torque at all times.
To quote Trump in the debates, "WRONG!"

Gearboxes are not designed to keep the engine at peak torque, or continuously variable transmissions would hold the engine at peak torque. They stay at peak horsepower! Why? Because its all about torque multiplication. Transmissions change the torque at the wheels, multiplying it at the sacrifice of speed.

Lets say you have a 50 horsepower electric motor, and you have a race from 0-20mph.

In car A, the gearing is fixed so that peak motor RPM is at 20mph.

In car B, the gearing is fixed so that peak motor RPM is at 200mph.

Which do you think will get to 20mph first?

Duh, car A, because car B will have way less torque AT THE WHEELS.

Gearing is about torque multiplication from the engine to the wheel, and so a car with a gearbox will be able to deliver more torque to the wheels than one without. Always. That's why with enough gearing, you could even make a 1hp motor lift a million pounds into the air, although granted maybe at 1 millimeter a day.

WHY do most electric vehicles not have a transmission? Is it because of electric engine torque? Yes, but not the way you think. Power delivery in a gasoline engine is generally quite smooth. Opening the throttle adds more air and fuel which creates a reasonably gradual power increase that is furthermore smoothed out by the weight of the engine flywheel that stores rotational energy. Electric motors on the other hand are very on-off abrupt, like analog vs digital. Most transmissions, unless super beefy, would simply break.

There's also a problem with energy storage. Batteries have very low energy density, and so take up a huge amount of space, including space that traditionally would go to the transmission on a RWD or AWD car. Transmissions improve performance, but they also introduce additional losses in the form of friction and weight.

So ultimately, they generally just direct drive the electric motor for these practical reasons, but NOT because they aren't necessary or beneficial or because electric motors are so "torquey".
 
The auto gear boxes today have so many gears that a manual doesn't seem needed. There is also the manual auto shift option.
I drove a stick for over 10 years. I like auto's now.
 
Automatic needs a completely different driving style. It's like you're wrestling with the transmission, to try to get it to do what you want.
They often have manual mode with paddle shifters, which are much faster than sticks to change gears.

My problem though is lack of a clutch. Slipping a clutch gives me so much more control over the vehicle than I have with an automatic, even a paddle shifter one.

The other problem I have is perceived speed. Take two identical Corvettes, a stick and auto, and the stick will FEEL much faster? Why? Because you feel yourself racing from 1st to 2nd, from 2nd to 3rd, from 3rd to 4th. With the automatic, you feel yourself racing from speed A to destination speed B only. This feels like it takes more time, and is thus slower. Its just really hard to get as excited driving an auto as a stick unfortunately, but most cars aren't sold for excitement.
 
I still drive a real manual transmission car, not one of these "manual or auto, your choice" ones. I love my manual, and I specifically look for manual when I buy a car. The extra control is worth it to me.
 
They often have manual mode with paddle shifters, which are much faster than sticks to change gears.
I mentioned that later in the same post.
Anyway it's not really about the time it takes to shift, it's the delay that annoys me. I don't doubt that a modern automatic can do the actual shift faster than me, but the delay between the shift and the press of the paddle feels odd to me.
 
I can drive both. New car is automatic, my old car is manual. So far, I think the old manual gets better MPG in the city, but the new one does a bit better on the highway. I honestly don't care which I drive, but as we move to hybrid/electric tech, I think it's likely that Automatic will be more efficient. I'll also add that I know a lot of people who can't drive a standard. I'm not sure I know anyone under 40 that can drive a standard and I know plenty of older individuals that can't and are scared to try (even though I think the days of standards being hard to drive probably ended in the 60s or 70s.
 
I still drive a real manual transmission car, not one of these "manual or auto, your choice" ones. I love my manual, and I specifically look for manual when I buy a car. The extra control is worth it to me.

Just as long as I don't have to commute with a stick, especially a German one though those are less notchy than Italians. I do think the art of using a stick is quickly being lost though. I remember this one time in HS a long ass time ago, the clutch cable on my friends Toyo snapped and we were stuck coming back from surfing. It was 4 teens and none of use could do a thing. My friends dad came out to pick up up and he drove that damn Toyo with no clutch back home just by feel as we drove his dads car. He was like a godamn superhero! At the time we couldn't figure out how he was doing it lol.
 
I have a manual in my Subaru WRX and I'm getting tired of it to be honest. Had to get it replaced earlier this year for $1500 in order to fix a persistent squeaking noise and the clutch action still isn't as smooth as when I first got the car.

A dual clutch auto with manual override is the best option. You get the benefits of an auto transmission, you can shift when you want to if you don't like how the computer does it, and you can change gear faster than any human.

The Mitsubishi Lancer Evo MR is a great choice for a car like that.
 
Just as long as I don't have to commute with a stick, especially a German one though those are less notchy than Italians. I do think the art of using a stick is quickly being lost though. I remember this one time in HS a long ass time ago, the clutch cable on my friends Toyo snapped and we were stuck coming back from surfing. It was 4 teens and none of use could do a thing. My friends dad came out to pick up up and he drove that damn Toyo with no clutch back home just by feel as we drove his dads car. He was like a godamn superhero! At the time we couldn't figure out how he was doing it lol.
I haven't tried it in years, but when my clutch started going, I could shift at 2000 RPMs without using the clutch.
 
I taught both my daughters how to drive a stick, even though they both got automatics in their cars. I didn't want to handicap their driving ability.
I believe there should be a manual tranny in every car for drivers education purposes. you should be proficient in stick to be able to drive if you can't , learn.
you may not be able to text and drive but neither can the idiots trying to do it with a automatic.
 
I have a manual in my Subaru WRX and I'm getting tired of it to be honest. Had to get it replaced earlier this year for $1500 in order to fix a persistent squeaking noise and the clutch action still isn't as smooth as when I first got the car.

The Mitsubishi Lancer Evo MR is a great choice for a car like that.

The Subie 5spd tranny kinda sucks though. The case design heats up and flexes. Their 6spd is a lot better and it doesn't break easily like the 5spd. That said the dual clutch or DSG are pretty nice, thanks to Porsche.
 
Been driving stick shift for 21 years now, i've allways hated automatic gearboxes still do today

You just can't beat the feeling of a good gearbox, clutch and the power you can put through it when you want to! If I feel that the revs need to burst into the 7000 rpm range before shifting it into 3 and onwards then I need a stick shift, no damn auto gearbox needs to tell me when to shift gears

Ohh and btw. Im 37 and Danish
 
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Auto's have gotten a lot better over the years, and I've never driven an electric before but.. I still like to row my own gears. I'm sure by the time I'm 80 I personally won't miss having to push in the clutch constantly though.

Agreed. Autos are better today than they have ever been.

It used to be that if you wanted better milage and you knew how to operate it, a manual transmission was the way to go. Now many manufacturers are dropping manuals from their lineups because they lower their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency) numbers.

They still aren't perfect though. Two things I hate about automatic transmissions:
1.) When you are going up a hill and you give it a little extra gas to maintain speed, and the transmission thinks "oh, he must want to accelerate" and downshifts.
2.) When you slam your foot on the accelerator and count to two seconds before it actually downshifts and you start going.

I drove Saabs with manual transmissions for many years. The manual + high pressure turbo always put a grin on my face (the front wheel drive, not so much, but you can't win 'em all). I never thought I'd own a car with an automatic. Then the last time I went car shopping in the summer of 2013 (first new car after Saab collapsed) I was looking around for a decent car at a price I was willing to pay with a manual.

My shopping criteria were mid to large size (Saab 9-5. BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Merc E class, Volvo S80 etc.) with a decently powerful engine and a manual transmission, preferably European, but open to other brands if they had that Euro-like road feel. I put my price limit at $30,000 for an about 3 year old off-lease. (I used to always be able to buy high speced Saabs for $20k or just above).

I couldn't find anything I wanted at all. They either didn't have manuals, had very basic engines, or WAY too many miles on them.

In the end I wound up disillusioned with where the car market was going, and just got a Volvo S80 T6. It's an automatic. (Volvo doesn't do manuals anymore, at least not in the U.S. market) has a low pressure turbo in a 3L straight 6, and AWD, so it has some grunt, but I wouldn't call it either fun to drive. I got used to it over time, but for the longest time I was very disappointed by its truck-like handling. The AWD with snow tires were great in the winter though. The automatic transmission in this car (a six speed I think?) shifts very smoothly, and doesn't suffer much from the "downshift going up a hill" problem, but it definitely has that lag between slamming your foot on the accelerator and going, that I hate.

The only benefit of this purchase is that when I have surgery on my left leg next week, I'll still be able to drive while I recover I would never have been able to do that with a manual.

When I pay off the Volvo this summer, I have no idea what I'm going to do next. I'll keep it for a while, to save up for the next down payment, but it's starting to show its age, and need pricy repairs at 130K miles. (I drive A LOT every year). I'd love to get a Tesla. I've drooled over the Model S since it was first announced. But they are still too expensive, even after tax credits (if those are still around?) and there isn't much in the way of gas savings to be had here in Massachusetts since we have some of the highest electric rates in the country.

I'm at a total loss as regards what comes next. I used to be a car enthusiast. Now, since I have become disillusioned and don't like anything on the market (within my budget) cars have just become grocery getters to me, and that makes me a bit sad.


Side note. I keep seeing all the luxury brands (and some regular brands) adding more and more gears to their automatic transmissions (some are up at 8 now, right?) presumably to improve their fuel economy. Why do they keep insisting on doing this instead of just going CVT? Having a CVT transmission is like having a infinite number of gears, and gets better acceleration and fuel milage out of the same engine with a traditional transmission.

Is it just because people are macho and want to hear their engines rev up and down with each shift?
 
The big thing most of these discussions leave out is injuries. Everyone, especially in YouTube and motortrend.com comments, is quick to sing manual transmission sports car praise.

Ford has exclusively offered every enthusiast car they've built in the last 25 years with standard shift. This basically bars anyone with a groin, knee, or ankle injury from owning the cars. It just so happens many of the people who are old enough to own an expensive toy car also have one of those items.

I think that is a big, not-talked-about reason gm finally started offering the 8 speed auto in the z06.
 
Had a Nissan as a rental recently. The CVT just seemed weird. And the sport button just seemed to add artificial shift points.

Then again, both my '69s are stick vehicles so it was all new to me.
 
All my mustangs have manuals and I'd never buy one with an auto. The parasitic loss through an automatic is still way more than a manual. Anyone who's done any racing or high performance driving knows that heel toe downshifting is a great way to slow down fast. I'm glad Ford stuck with a manual in all the SVT / Shelby Mustangs
 
You'll still be able to drive a stick in the self-driving electric car future, you'll just have to do it at a racetrack. Same as riding a horse after cars took over
 
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