The Slow Death Of The Manual Transmission

In the UK manual is standard and you have to hunt down automatics. They are listed as worse MPG too.
 
Agreed. Autos are better today than they have ever been.

It used to be that if you wanted better milage and you knew how to operate it, a manual transmission was the way to go. Now many manufacturers are dropping manuals from their lineups because they lower their CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Efficiency) numbers.

They still aren't perfect though. Two things I hate about automatic transmissions:
1.) When you are going up a hill and you give it a little extra gas to maintain speed, and the transmission thinks "oh, he must want to accelerate" and downshifts.
2.) When you slam your foot on the accelerator and count to two seconds before it actually downshifts and you start going.

I drove Saabs with manual transmissions for many years. The manual + high pressure turbo always put a grin on my face (the front wheel drive, not so much, but you can't win 'em all). I never thought I'd own a car with an automatic. Then the last time I went car shopping in the summer of 2013 (first new car after Saab collapsed) I was looking around for a decent car at a price I was willing to pay with a manual.

My shopping criteria were mid to large size (Saab 9-5. BMW 5 Series, Audi A6, Merc E class, Volvo S80 etc.) with a decently powerful engine and a manual transmission, preferably European, but open to other brands if they had that Euro-like road feel. I put my price limit at $30,000 for an about 3 year old off-lease. (I used to always be able to buy high speced Saabs for $20k or just above).

I couldn't find anything I wanted at all. They either didn't have manuals, had very basic engines, or WAY too many miles on them.

In the end I wound up disillusioned with where the car market was going, and just got a Volvo S80 T6. It's an automatic. (Volvo doesn't do manuals anymore, at least not in the U.S. market) has a low pressure turbo in a 3L straight 6, and AWD, so it has some grunt, but I wouldn't call it either fun to drive. I got used to it over time, but for the longest time I was very disappointed by its truck-like handling. The AWD with snow tires were great in the winter though. The automatic transmission in this car (a six speed I think?) shifts very smoothly, and doesn't suffer much from the "downshift going up a hill" problem, but it definitely has that lag between slamming your foot on the accelerator and going, that I hate.

The only benefit of this purchase is that when I have surgery on my left leg next week, I'll still be able to drive while I recover I would never have been able to do that with a manual.

When I pay off the Volvo this summer, I have no idea what I'm going to do next. I'll keep it for a while, to save up for the next down payment, but it's starting to show its age, and need pricy repairs at 130K miles. (I drive A LOT every year). I'd love to get a Tesla. I've drooled over the Model S since it was first announced. But they are still too expensive, even after tax credits (if those are still around?) and there isn't much in the way of gas savings to be had here in Massachusetts since we have some of the highest electric rates in the country.

I'm at a total loss as regards what comes next. I used to be a car enthusiast. Now, since I have become disillusioned and don't like anything on the market (within my budget) cars have just become grocery getters to me, and that makes me a bit sad.


Side note. I keep seeing all the luxury brands (and some regular brands) adding more and more gears to their automatic transmissions (some are up at 8 now, right?) presumably to improve their fuel economy. Why do they keep insisting on doing this instead of just going CVT? Having a CVT transmission is like having a infinite number of gears, and gets better acceleration and fuel milage out of the same engine with a traditional transmission.

Is it just because people are macho and want to hear their engines rev up and down with each shift?

Dude, I'm right there with you. I'm on my third Saab now, and have no idea what to get next. I'm also worried about availability of parts since they went out of business as i'm sitting at around 81k miles right now. like you, I put about 20-25k miles per year on a car, so at best, I figure i might have 2 years left.

I've been looking at a Subaru outback 3.6, Volvo XC 60 T6, Ford Edge Sport, and most recently I've taken a good look at the new Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. None of them even offer manual transmissions, and to be honest that doesn't bother me. Most of the time I just get on the highway and cruise until I need gas. Driving a manual vs an automatic doesn't make a bit of a difference to me if i'm distance driving.
 
Most people buy their cars for transportation, not racing. Hence, the popularity of the automatic. Besides, those who DO like to race drastically overestimate their own skills with the clutch. I'd wager only one in a hundred who can drive a manual, knows how to heel/toe properly, which is essential to getting maximum performance from a manual transmission. In fact, most never even heard of the term.

Today's 'enthusiast' drivers think doing donuts and burning rubber is a demonstration of their driving skills. They have no idea that they look like idiots to people that really know what performance driving is all about.
 
Dude, I'm right there with you. I'm on my third Saab now, and have no idea what to get next. I'm also worried about availability of parts since they went out of business as i'm sitting at around 81k miles right now. like you, I put about 20-25k miles per year on a car, so at best, I figure i might have 2 years left.

I've been looking at a Subaru outback 3.6, Volvo XC 60 T6, Ford Edge Sport, and most recently I've taken a good look at the new Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland. None of them even offer manual transmissions, and to be honest that doesn't bother me. Most of the time I just get on the highway and cruise until I need gas. Driving a manual vs an automatic doesn't make a bit of a difference to me if i'm distance driving.


Which Saab do you have? If it's not one of the new models for 2010 or 2011 right before they failed, parts shouldn't be an issue. Even for the 2010 and 2011 new models, mechanical parts are mostly made by 3rd party vendors and easily found using cross-reference part number tables.

The real problems arise if you have a new 2010 or 2011 model and need body parts. Those are either gone or in rather low supply, and it's not as if you are likely to have much luck junkyard hunting, because they weren't around long enough to sell a bunch of them.

I had a 2011 Saab 9-5 Turbo-4 Premium with the Tech package. Hands down the best car I've ever owned. The little 4 cyl was smaller than in my previous 9-5 Aero's but the turbo spooled up much faster, and with a software tune and E85 in the tank, it was more than fast enough. Great on gas for a car its size. I loved that car.

I decided to get rid of it after a car wash damaged the rear chrome strip on the trunk lid. Turns out that chrome strip could only be bought together with the LED strip that went between the two tail lights. When I bought it, the dealer notified me I was lucky, because I got one of the last 5 of those part numbers in the world.

That's when I got scared and sold the car, and picked up my disappointing Volvo :(

my pictures from when I bought it

No other car I've ever owned got so many looks and comments, presumably because they were rare enough that no one had seen them before, and thought that it was something way more exotic than it was :p To this day it's the only car I've owned with a HUD on the windshield, directional headlights, and many other pretty damned cool features.

It's also the only car I ever bought new. Worst financial decision I've ever made, but both the best car I've ever owned and driven.
 
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If the computers were just wee bit faster with better algorithms (ffs automatics in video games react much more appropriately) I think it would be accepted more easily. Bottom line, manual is fun, but it will die as the demand and desire for it falls. There are places where it likely will stay for a longer time but you day to day drivers don't want it. I know some people who love manual but ended up getting an auto just for that case of where they need soemone else to drive it for them (rare but still an arguing point). I myself never even got around to learning. Just wasn't something I found time for and since each car I ended up buying was auto, I wasn't forced into it. There are problems with auto no doubt, but at this point in time, I am sick of driving. I do it daily and have been driving to/from work. Weekend drives are nice and relaxing but day to day, I would rather sleep and have a car drive for me haha.
 
Side note. I keep seeing all the luxury brands (and some regular brands) adding more and more gears to their automatic transmissions (some are up at 8 now, right?) presumably to improve their fuel economy. Why do they keep insisting on doing this instead of just going CVT? Having a CVT transmission is like having a infinite number of gears, and gets better acceleration and fuel milage out of the same engine with a traditional transmission.

Is it just because people are macho and want to hear their engines rev up and down with each shift?

I always heard CVTs were too fragile to link with a high powered engine.
 
Unless you get a DSG (rough riding) you'll never get the performance of a manual. But it takes a very skilled driver to extract it. Full auto's are slow and guess incorrectly as to the gear you need. You go into a corner with the wrong gear and you could be F'd when you need to torque steer because you went in too hot. And automatics, while close, aren't as efficient. Even sport mode is slow to shift sometimes and can override your decisions.

While auto's are getting really really close, and DSG's are pretty tempting (which is a computer controlled manual), manuals still hold an edge albiet slight one. Personally I like feeling connected to my car. My probe, my cougar, my corvette were all manuals and fun as heck to drive.

I understand that most people who claim they want the control of a manual will also argue they can drive just as good as they do in the fast and the furious. From the post here, it seems many people here are race car drivers in their spare time. I'm now 30 years of driving and I have had zero need to hit corner at 100mphs and worry about torque to steer. Of course my view might be a bit more jaded, 7 of the years I drove a stick I was in Washington DC. There is very little racing and a whole lot of pulling up 5 feet and stopping. My Left leg was twice the size of my right from all the Clutch pumping I did. For 99% of the driving I do today, I can't even pretend like a manual would bring me any real value. My friend has a corvette and got a manual because he made the same arguments as you, and yet he lives 4 miles from work with 3 miles being streets with stop lights and stop signs. But once a year he drives 100 miles to go home, so I'm sure he takes full advantage of that stick then ;)

In 10 more years, this will probably all be for not, as self driving cars with be the standard and the new argument will be whether we need a license or not.
 
I'll stick with my C5 M6 Corvette forever. Maybe a first or second gen manual CTS V down the road.
 
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I've used all 3; Grew up with and had a manual sport car for summer drives until around 2010. Loved it for occasional use but after a while I just got lazy. My summer car now has paddle shifting (audi) and I wish I could get that in my Jeep. Best of both worlds IMO.
 
WHY do most electric vehicles not have a transmission? Is it because of electric engine torque? Yes, but not the way you think. Power delivery in a gasoline engine is generally quite smooth. Opening the throttle adds more air and fuel which creates a reasonably gradual power increase that is furthermore smoothed out by the weight of the engine flywheel that stores rotational energy. Electric motors on the other hand are very on-off abrupt, like analog vs digital. Most transmissions, unless super beefy, would simply break.
I realize electric vehicles can do what is basically PWM, but I wasn't aware this created large stress on components compared to IC engines. Do you have a source for this? I would think you could just mount a flywheel on an electric motor just the same like you do on a IC engine, it's not like IC engines are super smooth, you have large explosions occuring once every 4 strokes.

I also think it's a little ridiculous to pin the reason electric vehicles don't have transmissions to this single reason. The fact that electric motors have a completely different torque profile (or power profile if you want to get pedantic, they're directly related by rpm anyways) from IC Engines is indeed a major reason that manufacturers don't bother using transmissions. It's an extra cost that adds very little. Electric motors have a lot of low end torque that IC engines do not have (for the same peak power rating). They also can generate torque at 0 rpm, which also eliminates the need for a torque converter/clutch.
 
Driving to work, automatic truck is my choice vehicle. (With a back up 300). I'd love to have a stick though because they're fun to drive to me. End of argument.

I do however have a 62 VW Dune Buggy with a 4 speed mated to a 1.6L engine. Fun as hell to drive and slam through the gears. My dad has a 59 Chevy Apache (originally 3 on the Tree) with a 4 speed in it. I'm fairly young (27) so driving that was definitely different. Can't just dump the clutch and have the gears engaged gotta let it up slowly.

I'll always have something with a standard transmission available even if just for fun and not daily driving.
 
Manual is just more fun in something sporty, even when just cruising. Back when 3 & 4 speeds were it for autos, manuals were better in the little econoboxes as well since you got an extra gear or two which really helped when you have 80hp on tap.

That said, anyone see the new Camaro ZL1 w/10-speed in action? Granted it's only a GM engineering driving it, but he does a lap in "Sport" mode - ie not touching the paddles and just letting the trans do it's thing. Pretty impressive results for an automatic with a torque converter.

And before I get a Ford fan yelling at me, the 10-speed was a joint effort between GM & Ford so this will be coming to the GT350R as well.
 
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Not sure if it's been said, but a manual stick can be pushed start or rolled start when you have a bad battery.

Can't do that with any other transmission.

Oh, real men knows how to work a stick and clutch at the same time, uphill or otherwise.

Laters betas...
 
Bad battery or bad starter... I rarely, if ever, have I been stranded with a manual stick.
 
When I bought my old Honda Accord back in 2012, I went to 3 different Honda dealers in 3 different cities around me. Around 500 different models of Accords and there were 3, THREE (!) models with manual transmissions and those were the stripped down models. I finally just gave up.

Hell most of the Jeeps at my local Jeep dealers are automatics. I don't get it. Manuals are so much more fun to drive, are cheaper and more reliable.
 
shrug. Ive only ever had manual transmissions until my Alfa 4C. I am sold on the paddle shifters, at least in the form they come in with legit response and visceral satisfying way they clunk(very fast) into gear with that transmission. Plus the ability to keep boost up in blown cars is why almost every automagic/paddler is faster than its manual counterpart at this point. I completely get the argument for manuals, don't get me wrong, but technology has come along where I dont feel bad not having one now.
 
I drive a stick in my work car, but it's an old Ford Escort & i'm pretty happy with it vs an auto. I hear coworkers sing the praise of new Electric cars as they'll never wear out since there's so few parts & I sit there thinking "yeah right, car companies have whole teams of engineers designing stuff to last just long enough to get out of warranty." The more complicated & computer tied-in it gets the less interested I am anymore.
 
I drive a stick in my work car, but it's an old Ford Escort & i'm pretty happy with it vs an auto. I hear coworkers sing the praise of new Electric cars as they'll never wear out since there's so few parts & I sit there thinking "yeah right, car companies have whole teams of engineers designing stuff to last just long enough to get out of warranty." The more complicated & computer tied-in it gets the less interested I am anymore.


Well, they do have a good point. Moving parts generally do die sooner than non-moving parts. Simple mechanical wear is usually what results in failure, and there are fewer moving parts in an electrical car, meaning lower service costs.


There is - of course - one major exception, that may or may not make up for the fewer moving parts long term, and that is the battery. Batteries don't last forever, and once dead they could be very expensive to replace.


That being said, they are probably good for at least 10 years, and battery technology can improve a lot in 10 years.

Either way, it's not for me. Oldest car I ever owned was 7 years old when I got rid of it.

I usually buy 3 year old cars off lease with about 30k miles on them. After 4 years and 100k more miles it's time to get rid of them and get something newer.
 
Which Saab do you have? If it's not one of the new models for 2010 or 2011 right before they failed, parts shouldn't be an issue. Even for the 2010 and 2011 new models, mechanical parts are mostly made by 3rd party vendors and easily found using cross-reference part number tables.

The real problems arise if you have a new 2010 or 2011 model and need body parts. Those are either gone or in rather low supply, and it's not as if you are likely to have much luck junkyard hunting, because they weren't around long enough to sell a bunch of them.

I had a 2011 Saab 9-5 Turbo-4 Premium with the Tech package. Hands down the best car I've ever owned. The little 4 cyl was smaller than in my previous 9-5 Aero's but the turbo spooled up much faster, and with a software tune and E85 in the tank, it was more than fast enough. Great on gas for a car its size. I loved that car.

I decided to get rid of it after a car was damaged the rear chrome strip on the trunk lid. Turns out that chrome strip could only be bought together with the LED strip that went between the two tail lights. When I bought it, the dealer notified me I was lucky, because I got one of the last 5 of those part numbers in the world.

That's when I got scared and sold the car, and picked up my disappointing Volvo :(

my pictures from when I bought it

No other car I've ever owned got so many looks and comments, presumably because they were rare enough that no one had seen them before, and thought that it was something way more exotic than it was :p To this day it's the only car I've owned with a HUD on the windshield, directional headlights, and many other pretty damned cool features.

It's also the only car I ever bought new. Worst financial decision I've ever made, but both the best car I've ever owned and driven.

Wow, that is a Beautiful Saab, love the color! No wonder you were getting so many looks.

Mine is one of the ones that was close to when they closed up. I picked up a 3 year old 2011 9-3 back in mid 2014. It only had 22k miles on it at the time, and for the price was an absolute steal. I didn't realise how much i would miss my hatch back from my 1996 NG 900s however....

https://hardforum.com/threads/most-recent-purchases-general.1318442/page-112#post-1040846847

Aside from the several chips on the hood from rocks, and a couple of door dings from assholes in hotels, the car is in excellent shape. I an very meticulous about regular maintenance, and even do oil changes early if i'm anticipating having difficulty finding a shop when it's due.

I'm considering putting the $2k into it to get the hood repainted, the front bumper touched up, and the dings removed to get it back to the like new look.

I'm truly sorry to hear that you're disappointed with your Volvo, and surprised that it's a T6 at that. The Volvo XC60 T6 was seriously the front runner for me as I was hoping that another Swedish auto would feel much like my Saab. I test drove my sister's 2016 Subaru outback this summer when she bought it, and it was...ok. She only has the 2.5 4 cylinder so I'm sure the 6 cylinder would have a little more pickup, but with the CVT who knows what that will feel like.

Have you taken a look at the BMW 3 or 5 series GT by chance? I was thinking they seem like decent vehicles. They have the hatch back much like the old Saabs, probably fun to drive, and as a used car they're not too expensive.
 
I drive a 18 wheeler for a living, my tractor is a Mack Vision with a 9 speed Eaton-Fuller transmission. I also have driven some of the newer Freightliner Cascadias 10 speed Eaton-Fullers which are nice. We have automatic tractors but I prefer the stick, the autos are dogs and slow to get going. They also suck in the snow, plus when your pulling 40k+ you like to be in control of the gear selection.;)
 
Now this is driving a stick! LOL!(y)
 

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I realize electric vehicles can do what is basically PWM, but I wasn't aware this created large stress on components compared to IC engines. Do you have a source for this? I would think you could just mount a flywheel on an electric motor just the same like you do on a IC engine, it's not like IC engines are super smooth, you have large explosions occuring once every 4 strokes.
Exactly, you have many small explosions from many cylinders that are spaced out and apply pressure over a reasonably long period of time on the piston to drive the gearbox. A V8 is not going to suddenly fire all 8 cylinders simultaneously and break the gearbox. A big electric motor by contrast can go from 0RPM to 1000RPM in the blink of an eye. The source is common knowledge, so I'm sure you can google some examples. They may have found computerized solutions to this though, as what was a problem 15 years ago may be resolved now by electronics that can smooth out the electric motor.
Electric motors have a lot of low end torque that IC engines do not have (for the same peak power rating). They also can generate torque at 0 rpm, which also eliminates the need for a torque converter/clutch.
Electric motors have an efficiency curve, which you learn about with RC planes in particular when sizing them and the props. They absolutely have a peak power area that they are most efficient in. And regarding 0RPM torque, that prevents the need for a clutch/torque converter when coming to a stop, but not the need for a transmission.

Unlike an internal combustion engines, your legs produce about the same peak torque at 0RPM as they do at say 20RPM, and you don't have to worry if you stop moving them just like an electric motor. So why does your bicycle have a transmission? Because you can multiply the power of your legs at the sacrifice of speed.

There are also internal combustion engines that produce peak torque just above idle, and yet they too greatly benefit from transmissions. VW's 1.8 liter turbo produces peak torque at 1,700RPM, just 900 RPM above its idle speed. Yet it still makes sense not to shift into the next gear until about 5,500rpm. Why? Because of torque multiplication, where the multiplying factor of being in 1st gear is greater than the torque drop off as RPMs climb until about that RPM.

Also, a 7th generation Corvette can go from 0MPH to its top speed in 5th gear, as Jeremy Clarkson tested a few years back. So it too could operate without a gearbox just fine fixed in say 3rd or 4th gear, but it wouldn't work as well or be able to reach really high speeds. But, wait a second, why is it that most electric cars have such a low top speed?

Simple, again because they don't have a gearbox. So they put on the lowest gearing they can to reasonably hit a useful top speed without overspinning the motor, and just artificially cap it.

So an electric car with a gearbox would have:
1) Improved overall performance
2) Higher top speed
3) More torque at the wheels at low speed for towing
4) Potentially greater efficiency and thus range

Here's an article discussing how they are making electric specific transmissions, now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, mostly 3-speed and 4-speed designs:
http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-multi-speed-transmissions-electric-cars-107656.html
Electric motors have a wider power range than an internal combustion engine. Their torque curve is flatter, but their efficiency curve is far from flat. There would be a lot to gain from a choice of gears. Imagine a Nissan LEAF with a 5-liter V8 engine and a 5-speed manual blocked in third gear. Performance would be the same as with the standard electric motor, but the efficiency would be terrible. It would be much better with a 2-liter and a choice of gears, and the same reasoning also applies to an electric drive, though to a significantly lesser degree. With a transmission offering several speeds, the Nissan LEAF could do with a smaller motor, and it would be more efficient because it would be possible to keep that motor within the most efficient RPM range. Do EV drivers want better performance and more range? Then just add gears.
 
I still only buy cars with a manual transmission. I understand why they are dying out, but I will continue to drive one for as long as I can. That will change if / when I buy an electric.
 
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Now this is driving a stick! LOL!(y)

Wow, so you cycle through 1-4 with the selector in low, then cycle through the same positions again with the selector in high for 5-8?

That would be confusing as hell to me, but I guess you get used to it.

Do you have to double-clutch those things?
 
I have a manual in my Subaru WRX and I'm getting tired of it to be honest. Had to get it replaced earlier this year for $1500 in order to fix a persistent squeaking noise and the clutch action still isn't as smooth as when I first got the car.


I'm now on my 2nd auto wrx. First was my 2000 gc8. Man it shifted solid. Real fast too when I was running big power on e85. Was standard box, but power mode, which is selectable here with a button as standard, really woke it up. Shifts were very hard and fast. Box was great, no problems. And no clutch replacements for me. :)

My current GD blobby wrx has the same 4eat, but with sport shift. I don't like paddles as they tend to be not at the right place to my hands too often as I do that annoying turn the steering wheel thing, the up/down lever sport shift is miles better. But for some reason this box doesn't shift as hard or fast as the gc8 did. I may have to get it worked, but still, it can handle the new upgrade in power I've given it, which leads me to, if you get a new WRX, be mindful that the new cvt or whatever they use is near its max power tolerance in stock form. They just don't have the strength of the old auto boxes.
 
I recently went car shopping. I was mainly test driving CUV's - Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, Honda CR-V. I also test drove a few cars: Accord, Camry, and a Legacy. I don't think the deals had any manual transmissions on the lot.
TBH, I prefer automatics.
 
Exactly, you have many small explosions from many cylinders that are spaced out and apply pressure over a reasonably long period of time on the piston to drive the gearbox. A V8 is not going to suddenly fire all 8 cylinders simultaneously and break the gearbox. A big electric motor by contrast can go from 0RPM to 1000RPM in the blink of an eye. The source is common knowledge, so I'm sure you can google some examples. They may have found computerized solutions to this though, as what was a problem 15 years ago may be resolved now by electronics that can smooth out the electric motor.

Electric motors have an efficiency curve, which you learn about with RC planes in particular when sizing them and the props. They absolutely have a peak power area that they are most efficient in. And regarding 0RPM torque, that prevents the need for a clutch/torque converter when coming to a stop, but not the need for a transmission.

Unlike an internal combustion engines, your legs produce about the same peak torque at 0RPM as they do at say 20RPM, and you don't have to worry if you stop moving them just like an electric motor. So why does your bicycle have a transmission? Because you can multiply the power of your legs at the sacrifice of speed.

There are also internal combustion engines that produce peak torque just above idle, and yet they too greatly benefit from transmissions. VW's 1.8 liter turbo produces peak torque at 1,700RPM, just 900 RPM above its idle speed. Yet it still makes sense not to shift into the next gear until about 5,500rpm. Why? Because of torque multiplication, where the multiplying factor of being in 1st gear is greater than the torque drop off as RPMs climb until about that RPM.

Also, a 7th generation Corvette can go from 0MPH to its top speed in 5th gear, as Jeremy Clarkson tested a few years back. So it too could operate without a gearbox just fine fixed in say 3rd or 4th gear, but it wouldn't work as well or be able to reach really high speeds. But, wait a second, why is it that most electric cars have such a low top speed?

Simple, again because they don't have a gearbox. So they put on the lowest gearing they can to reasonably hit a useful top speed without overspinning the motor, and just artificially cap it.

So an electric car with a gearbox would have:
1) Improved overall performance
2) Higher top speed
3) More torque at the wheels at low speed for towing
4) Potentially greater efficiency and thus range

Here's an article discussing how they are making electric specific transmissions, now that electric vehicles are becoming more popular, mostly 3-speed and 4-speed designs:
http://www.plugincars.com/efficiency-multi-speed-transmissions-electric-cars-107656.html

Yep. It's not impossible to make a transmission for an electric car, it's just that current designs intended for internal combustion engines aren't really suitable.

You probably wouldn't need as many gears as a internal combustion engine, because the power band tends to be wider on electric motors, but having gears in an electric car could certainly be helpful.
 
Manual transmission is way out of date imho, it surprises me there's still a market for it. At best it's a needless distraction, at worst a silly way to get into an accident.
 
I own automatics except for the truck. I learned on a manual, and I've owned several.

I'd love a nice manual sports car, though. There is that feeling you get when you're shifting gears. It's a visceral feeling. A connection to the car. You're in control. It's a nice feeling. Something I don't get from automatics.
 
I have had nothing but manuals for 20 years, but my next will probably be and auto. I'm getting lazy in my old age.
 
Manual transmission is way out of date imho, it surprises me there's still a market for it. At best it's a needless distraction, at worst a silly way to get into an accident.
Manual transmission advantages:
1) Improved fuel economy
2) Improved efficiency so more horsepower (less parasitic losses)
3) Lighter weight
4) Simpler and thus cheaper to make
5) Clutch slip provides enhanced control at low speeds
6) Being able to anticipate gear selection (I can shift before I'm about to pass, instead of starting to pass and waiting for the automatic to realize I want it to downshift)
7) Greater control through engine braking
8) Greater control by "hanging" on to gears when appropriate
9) Its fun!

Downsides:
1) You have to have additional driving skill to know hot to operate a clutch, and if really mentally challenged may find it a distraction and get into an accident (if rubbing your belly in a circular motion while tapping your head causes so much confusion you lose bowel control, stick is not for you)
2) Can't as easily eat french fries and talk on your cellphone while driving (stop that, fatty)
3) The best automatics actually shift faster than most people can manually now
4) With very powerful engines, clutch weight can sometimes be high and cause leg fatigue in small girls and males with the muscle strength of small girls.
 
You probably wouldn't need as many gears as a internal combustion engine, because the power band tends to be wider on electric motors, but having gears in an electric car could certainly be helpful.
As the technology improves, I'm sure the norm will at least be a low and high, but who knows... GM came up with a weird two motor solution so you have one motor up to a certain speed, and then a second motor kicks in for high speed. It changes gears somehow in this process, but not with a traditional gearbox... it was really weird. I forget how it works.
 
As the technology improves, I'm sure the norm will at least be a low and high, but who knows... GM came up with a weird two motor solution so you have one motor up to a certain speed, and then a second motor kicks in for high speed. It changes gears somehow in this process, but not with a traditional gearbox... it was really weird. I forget how it works.
Pretty sure that's how the Lexus LC Hybrid is going to work, but I'm too lazy to fact check myself ;)
 
Manual transmission advantages:
6) Being able to anticipate gear selection (I can shift before I'm about to pass, instead of starting to pass and waiting for the automatic to realize I want it to downshift)
7) Greater control through engine braking
8) Greater control by "hanging" on to gears when appropriate

Most automatics allow some gear selection. Example - my Honda Odyssey (2006) allows me to grab gears 1-3 if I want. I cannot select gear 4 or 5 though, but there's really no need. If I need to pass on a hill, I simply press a button and I'm capped at 3rd, which gives me plenty of power to pass quickly. Engine braking is the same thing. I can take it to three, two, or one whenever I want without fear of over-revving. Now there are some cars (Ford Flex, I'm looking at you) that have trims that don't let you select those gears. Pisses me off. But for most people this is a non-issue.

Now the biggest downside of driving a manual? It's a lost art and no one does it anymore it seems. Let's say you're out with a friend and something happens to you - like a medical emergency. So now your friend needs to get you to the ER and - fuck - he doesn't drive stick...

It was this downside which caused me to not purchase a manual transmission as my first car out of college. Almost none of my friends can drive one. Shame - because I agree with you on every other front. I love stick. :(
 
Hmmm, the automatics I've driven, because of a lack of direct connection to the gear its in (torque converter aka slushbox), prevented normal engine braking.

Automatics aren't as rare elsewhere in the world, and I'm actually considering picking up a Volkswagen Alltrack as I found out they are making them available with 6-speed manual transmissions. My only hesitation is I'm annoyed they are making them in Puebla, Mexico, and it'd be a no-brainer if it were made in Germany and imported or the US. Shame on VW. :(
 
Hmmm, the automatics I've driven, because of a lack of direct connection to the gear its in (torque converter aka slushbox), prevented normal engine braking.

Now that I think of it, automatic engine braking does feel a little different than manuals. I learned on an auto, and then learned to drive stick when we got a diesel truck with a 6-speed. :D The autos I drive - CR-V and Odyssey - do a decent job of engine braking.
 
I drove a manual for 10 years, went automatic and never looked back. I don't know what "level of control" people think it really gives them other than a psychological fix. I guess some folks like manual windows and no power steering as well. For me, I'll take automatic and power everything.

While I agree that there is a psychological fix, there are many aspects of motorsport where fine control of clutch and gear is preferable to alternatives. Also, I don't think it's fair to group manual transmissions in with manual windows and no power steering, no one gets satisfaction or benefit from either of those (that I know of :rolleyes:).
 
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