The Official Guild Wars 2 thread

FLCLimax

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
423
there's no working MMO formula, or Rift with an exceptionally dedicated and hard working, fan pleasing dev team would be catching up to WoW right now. it's an oh so necessary WoW type endgame with much better post launch support, better graphics and launched in such a stable and polished state that it's comparable to WoW right now. plummeted to 200k subs and dropping though. if they blew a huge wad of cash like bioware, it'd have gone F2P six months ago but the financials panned out well for them.
 
Last edited:

Curious_George

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
114
The awesome thing about GW2 is that because of leveling scaling all content doesn't have to be "end game" content. I see with so many MMOs that once the playerbase starts to shift toward end levels all new content that gets introduced is max level content. And while that might be great for the max level players, if you're new, or rerolling, it means most of the exciting new content in the game is unavailable to you. But they don't have to take that approach with GW2. They could introduce a level 15 dungeon that's tuned for level 15 players for story mode but difficult enough to challenge scaled level 80 players in exploration mode. And since gear stats won't be the driving force behind dungeon raiding, if it has new/interesting looking loot the content won't be irrelevant to high level players. Of course, they might not do something like that, but once I get to 80 I'd love to go back to earlier zones and still find challenges (and it seems like it would be the most efficient way for them to use their resources to satisfy the largest number of players).
 
Last edited:

FLCLimax

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
423
The awesome thing about GW2 is that because of leveling scaling all content doesn't have to be "end game" content. I see with so many MMOs that once the playerbase starts to shift toward end levels all new content that gets introduced is max level content. And while that might be great for the max level players, if you're new, or rerolling, it means most of the exciting new content in the game is unavailable to you. But they don't have to take that approach with GW2. They could introduce a level 15 dungeon that's tuned for level 15 players for story mode but difficult enough to challenge scaled level 80 players in exploration mode. And since gear stats won't be the driving force behind dungeon raiding, if it has new/interesting looking loot the content won't be irrelevant to high level players. Of course, they might not do something like that, but once I get to 80 I'd love to go back to earlier zones and still find challenges (and it seems like it would be the most efficient way for them to use their resources to satisfy the largest number of players).
sounds like the plan.

“We have a live team of designers and artists and gameplay programmers who are going to be flying over the game constantly, dropping content everywhere” Johanson says. “Our goal is that every time you make a new character, you might go back through a map that you played six months ago and you’re going to find completely different content.” New content, he says, will be spread across the whole game rather than concentrated in specific areas. As this happens, the events already in place will be altered to accommodate it.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/28/g...t-and-getting-the-community-to-play-together/

also, new blog post: http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success
 

chockomonkey

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Messages
8,277
The awesome thing about GW2 is that because of leveling scaling all content doesn't have to be "end game" content. I see with so many MMOs that once the playerbase starts to shift toward end levels all new content that gets introduced is max level content. And while that might be great for the max level players, if you're new, or rerolling, it means most of the exciting new content in the game is unavailable to you. But they don't have to take that approach with GW2. They could introduce a level 15 dungeon that's tuned for level 15 players for story mode but difficult enough to challenge scaled level 80 players in exploration mode. And since gear stats won't be the driving force behind dungeon raiding, if it has new/interesting looking loot the content won't be irrelevant to high level players. Of course, they might not do something like that, but once I get to 80 I'd love to go back to earlier zones and still find challenges (and it seems like it would be the most efficient way for them to use their resources to satisfy the largest number of players).
Hopefully there will be small to marginal upgrades awarded, or at least different stat allocation on these loots, else it sounds as boring as achievement chasing.
 

Disposed

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
5,181
*makes full of shit post, exclaims you want the game*

bullshit posting 101, zzzzz. you're full of shit, and there's exactly two successful gear treadmill MMO's since 1999. two. not to say that success is guaranteed, but your reasoning is pretty stupid.
Really? Lets take a look at those "only 2" :rolleyes:

EQ - Most successful MMO pre 2004
WoW - Most successful MMO of all time has 10 mil+ subs and is the envy of the entire gaming industry.

So its real easy to twist reality in defense of this game to say "There have only been 2 successful gear grind MMOs" but the reality is when their success overshadows the entire fucking industry your point is just braindead stupid. :rolleyes:

LOL only 2... One of which just makes up 3/4 of the fucking MMO playerbase. :rolleyes:

So sick of this fanboy mentality on this forum, seriously people grow the fuck up. Any time someone says something even remotely negative about an up and coming game he is jumped on by packs of ravenous fanboys.

My point is simple, 2 things destroy an MMO in this day and age.

1. Worse than normal launches that take too long to sort out (VG comes to mind)
2. Lacking end game content

Take a step back and look at all the releases in the last few years. Of those RIFT is the only one doing even remotely well. It launched with a decent end game and has gotten regular content updates etc. and guess what.... Gear treadmill.
 

EPOQ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,071
My point is simple, 2 things destroy an MMO in this day and age.

1. Worse than normal launches that take too long to sort out (VG comes to mind)
2. Lacking end game content

Take a step back and look at all the releases in the last few years. Of those RIFT is the only one doing even remotely well. It launched with a decent end game and has gotten regular content updates etc. and guess what.... Gear treadmill.
I think you missed one

3. Stale WoW-clone with a spin gameplay that results in mass exodus after initial free 30 day playtime (i.e., RIFT)
 

SilverSliver

Beat It To Deformation
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
11,274
Really? Lets take a look at those "only 2" :rolleyes:

EQ - Most successful MMO pre 2004
WoW - Most successful MMO of all time has 10 mil+ subs and is the envy of the entire gaming industry.

So its real easy to twist reality in defense of this game to say "There have only been 2 successful gear grind MMOs" but the reality is when their success overshadows the entire fucking industry your point is just braindead stupid. :rolleyes:

LOL only 2... One of which just makes up 3/4 of the fucking MMO playerbase. :rolleyes:

So sick of this fanboy mentality on this forum, seriously people grow the fuck up. Any time someone says something even remotely negative about an up and coming game he is jumped on by packs of ravenous fanboys.

My point is simple, 2 things destroy an MMO in this day and age.

1. Worse than normal launches that take too long to sort out (VG comes to mind)
2. Lacking end game content

Take a step back and look at all the releases in the last few years. Of those RIFT is the only one doing even remotely well. It launched with a decent end game and has gotten regular content updates etc. and guess what.... Gear treadmill.

Your theory is terrific. Except for they are all based on subscription based models. This is free to play. Theory does not apply.
 

DoubleTap

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,409
Your theory is terrific. Except for they are all based on subscription based models. This is free to play. Theory does not apply.
That's really the point. Subscription games need you to grind and continually play end game content so you will continue to pay every month.

I never enjoyed WoW or EQ so I can't make a direct comparison, but long after GW1 reached it's current iteration (3 games plus Eye of the North) it had, in my opinion, plenty of things to do.

The Underworld dungeon originally took 8 people about 2 hours to complete, but some creative players devised ways to speed run it and got the times down to consistently under 15 minutes (as long as nobody screwed up). The rewards for completing were great and you could do several runs per night if you had a good group - it was high risk and high reward and required near perfect execution from 8 people, but that was some of the most fun I've ever had.

Over time, Arena tweaked the meta game the techniques had to evolve but if you wanted to become really wealthy, this was one of the best ways.

There were other things to do and regular events, but I strongly suspect that Arena will continually add new end game content - especially as the population of the game matures and levels up.

In my mind, GW is a very different kind of game than WoW and EQ - I never enjoyed those games and it seems people tend to be polarized towards strongly preferring one style or another.

Tyria is a big place and I think we will see a lot more content in the years to come.
 

Intel_Hydralisk

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,743
That's really the point. Subscription games need you to grind and continually play end game content so you will continue to pay every month.

I never enjoyed WoW or EQ so I can't make a direct comparison, but long after GW1 reached it's current iteration (3 games plus Eye of the North) it had, in my opinion, plenty of things to do.

The Underworld dungeon originally took 8 people about 2 hours to complete, but some creative players devised ways to speed run it and got the times down to consistently under 15 minutes (as long as nobody screwed up). The rewards for completing were great and you could do several runs per night if you had a good group - it was high risk and high reward and required near perfect execution from 8 people, but that was some of the most fun I've ever had.

Over time, Arena tweaked the meta game the techniques had to evolve but if you wanted to become really wealthy, this was one of the best ways.

There were other things to do and regular events, but I strongly suspect that Arena will continually add new end game content - especially as the population of the game matures and levels up.

In my mind, GW is a very different kind of game than WoW and EQ - I never enjoyed those games and it seems people tend to be polarized towards strongly preferring one style or another.

Tyria is a big place and I think we will see a lot more content in the years to come.
I raided a lot in WOW BC and I also put in nearly 2000 hours in GW1.

The "content" in GW1 was distinctly different than the tiered raiding end game system that WOW had. I agree, there was plenty to do in GW1. The difference was that no one really had to do any of it. It did feel somewhat shallow that the real reward for running a tough dungeon like UW or FoW was aesthetic armor - but people did it anyway. Simultaneously it made those dungeons completely optional (players who didn't want to invest in it or were in a region without favor of the gods weren't penalized for it). I think GW2 tried to make PvE content more 'rewarding' while sticking with the idea that you should be rewarded for running what you want rather than repeatedly doing one instance over and over. I.E. the Karma vendors are largely the PvE reward vendors and you get Karma for doing a variety of things.

Disposed is simply ranting about something that most people take to be true - yes a MMO launch has to be stable and yes there needs to be content... but I'm not really sure what his driving point is. He's trying to say GW2 has to mimic WOW's raid content system yet GW2 has a great and successful system to build off of ... namely GW1. Seems like he's regurgitating stuff without understanding what's going on.
 

DoubleTap

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,409
Well, forgive my ignorance, but I guess I just don't understand why you are "must" raid? (in WoW, etc)

I guess I assumed that like running Underworld or Fissure of Woe, you do it because it's a challenge, it's a test of your guild and you find cool stuff along the way.

What am I missing?
 

Intel_Hydralisk

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,743
Well, forgive my ignorance, but I guess I just don't understand why you are "must" raid? (in WoW, etc)

I guess I assumed that like running Underworld or Fissure of Woe, you do it because it's a challenge, it's a test of your guild and you find cool stuff along the way.

What am I missing?
Well the "must" part of WoW raiding was... if you wanted the end-game PvE gear this was the path to obtain it by game design.

UW/FoW was nothing like that. If you wanted the end game gear... you had many options. You could just stick with the cheapest stuff if you don't want to grind anything. You'd go for the fissure armor if you wanted the most expensive 'iconic' stuff. Mostly, people just pinpointed the set that they liked the most aesthetically (usually the "15k" armors). So in that sense, you had many options for the 'reward' of your 'PvE gear'. But simultaneously, this reward was purely aesthetic. This has its pros and cons. It trivializes a part of the reward but simultaneously makes it unnecessary for character effectiveness.

I think GW2 will emphasize gear a little bit more than GW1 did just to make PvE more 'rewarding', but it certainly won't adopt the WOW system (and it has no reason to despite what Disposed is ranting about). I don't know personally since I haven't seen any of the end game gear / content for GW2... but just inspecting the PvP gear gives me some ideas about runes. The craftable items and karma reward vendors have also shed some light / clues into what PvE itemization might be like at end game.
 

Curious_George

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
114
Well the "must" part of WoW raiding was... if you wanted the end-game PvE gear this was the path to obtain it by game design.
From my short time playing WoW, you also had to because new content was apparently often balanced around having completed all previous content. So if they introduced a new raid, you couldn't even effectively do it without first having been geared up with all the previous dungeon's gear. I felt like you basically had to be actively raiding if you didn't want to be locked out of all future content (not fun).
 

Skizzy

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
4,096
I raided during the Onyxia/MC days with a tiny bit of BWL, AQ40, and ZG (I might be getting the acronym wrong; the one with the trolls). After those, I continued to play WoW but focused more on PvP since I was so burnt out on raiding. Raiding just doesn't do anything for me, and I'm glad GW2 isn't going that route-- it allows them to concentrate on other things. I much prefer doing dungeons with smaller groups as I don't have to worry about some incompetent player screwing something up.

I understand Disposed is a bit hesitant on this being a decent game since so many MMOs have just been a disappointment lately. ArenaNet has a great track record though, and after being in closed beta and seeing all the changes they've been making with community feedback, I expect this is going to be a solid MMO for me. It's also been the only MMO in recent times where I want to continue to play the beta, and actually enjoy it.
 

Scooty Puff Sr.

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 20, 2012
Messages
183
It's also been the only MMO in recent times where I want to continue to play the beta, and actually enjoy it.
This right here. This is the first MMO in a while where I was blown away by how much fun it was to just explore. There many many things you will miss if you just run straight from heart to heart. Also there were a few times where I would just walk up to a random NPC and talk to them and it would start a dynamic event or direct me to one that I couldn't see at the time.
 

Daggah

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
3,196
WoW is literally ruining the MMORPG landscape. Here's my theory of what happens:

#1 - there's a SHITLOAD of people burnt out on WoW. They are literally looking for a new game. I'm talking masses of people that WANT to go elsewhere. But here's the thing - they don't realize they're actually burnt out not just on WoW, but on the type of game WoW is.
#2 - new MMO is released/hyped/etc. A bunch of WoW addicts jump ship on launch. Servers quickly overflow, new servers are opened, etc.
#3 - after the free month, most of these WoW addicts cancel. They think they want WoW's gameplay, but they don't...because they are actually burnt out on WoW's gameplay. They then return to WoW in droves because even though they're burnt out, they're still addicts. They just never got the fix they wanted from the new game.
#4 - all the servers opened up to service the influx of WoW-ites become ghost towns, server mergers happen, and game is pronounced dead (wrongfully or not.)

My bottom line is this: an MMORPG does NOT have to dethrone WoW to be successful. I've said it many times in Rift threads here and elsewhere on the internet. We need to get away from this notion. The only thing that will kill WoW is WoW, when enough people wake up and realize they've been playing a steaming pile of shit for the last few years (disclaimer: I'm an ex-WoW player, quit shortly after Cataclysm's release.)

I don't see GW 2 as being an attempt to compete with WoW, because of the no monthly fee thing. I just hope that people finally wake up from this stupid idea that WoW needs to be dethroned, and that if a game doesn't accomplish it, it's a failure. Before WoW, no MMO had touched anywhere near WoW's current playerbase. Did EQ have 10 million plus subscribers? No. Was it still incredibly successful?
 

EPOQ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,071
In my personal opinion GW2 will be very successful as long as they do not fall deep into the "over promise and under deliver" MMO curse. Their F2P model makes it stand out, as most games that start F2P are by relatively unknown developers who can't justify a subscription for a game they put little time and money into in terms of marketing. The rest of the F2P models have been "forced" F2P by starting out with a subscription model that failed, then eventually moving to a F2P model to attract some of its playerbase back. Well, most of us know by that point that they are going F2P for a REASON (the game is stale or there are glaring issues that have caused it to bleed so much money that they didn't have a choice). By GW2 starting F2P, and having all of the hype built up around it, all they have to do is keep their promises about what they are saying the game is going to shape up to be. The RMT shop is right where it should be with cosmetic and sensible upgrades like additional character/bank slots and they will probably make tons of money on this kind of stuff because we can justify spending a few bucks here and there because we aren't paying that $15 dollar monthly sub that we are used to paying with other games. BWE2 was a ton of fun and I can't wait for the next one. I know I'm probably one of a million that thinks a Sylvari Ranger will be a pretty badass race/class combo to play and I am excited to see the starting areas for the final 2 races. I also can't wait for further development in the realm of CPU/GPU optimization so all of the haters will shut up about how they had low FPS in the 2nd beta on their 5 year old PCs.
 

Oomps

Gawd
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
789
In my personal opinion GW2 will be very successful as long as they do not fall deep into the "over promise and under deliver" MMO curse. Their F2P model makes it stand out, as most games that start F2P are by relatively unknown developers who can't justify a subscription for a game they put little time and money into in terms of marketing. The rest of the F2P models have been "forced" F2P by starting out with a subscription model that failed, then eventually moving to a F2P model to attract some of its playerbase back. Well, most of us know by that point that they are going F2P for a REASON (the game is stale or there are glaring issues that have caused it to bleed so much money that they didn't have a choice). By GW2 starting F2P, and having all of the hype built up around it, all they have to do is keep their promises about what they are saying the game is going to shape up to be. The RMT shop is right where it should be with cosmetic and sensible upgrades like additional character/bank slots and they will probably make tons of money on this kind of stuff because we can justify spending a few bucks here and there because we aren't paying that $15 dollar monthly sub that we are used to paying with other games.
It's not F2P, there's just no subscription. You still have to buy the game, unlike a f2p. They've probably already made back close to the cost of development with pre-sales.
 

DoubleTap

2[H]4U
Joined
Dec 16, 2010
Messages
2,409
It's not F2P, there's just no subscription. You still have to buy the game, unlike a f2p. They've probably already made back close to the cost of development with pre-sales.
Up until recently, my brain has equated "F2P" with low quality games but it's starting to change.

GW2 is not free to buy, but it is "free to play" unlike subscription games. Funny that I was thinking we need a term for that, but that is really how games used to be - buy the game and then just play it.

I will probably be a ridiculous RMT whore once GW2 comes out and I'll probably max out the character slots and everything else because I like having just one game to focus and lavish with my attention and money - I'm probably the dream customer for Anet.
 

Disposed

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Mar 2, 2010
Messages
5,181
Your theory is terrific. Except for they are all based on subscription based models. This is free to play. Theory does not apply.
It very much applies. When GW1 came out the F2P competition was pretty shitty now with good games being F2P GW2 will have some real competition.

But we will see i guess. Im sure it will sell very well my concern is whether or not the community will last.
 

SilverSliver

Beat It To Deformation
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
11,274
It very much applies. When GW1 came out the F2P competition was pretty shitty now with good games being F2P GW2 will have some real competition.

But we will see i guess. Im sure it will sell very well my concern is whether or not the community will last.
You can keep saying it. Does not make it true. DAoC had a robust RvR community for YEARS past it's prime and it had a subscription. Show me a big budget, F2P game out there right now that is even in the same league as GW2. That means robust, 3 sided RvR, huge world, etc. Shitty asian MMORPG's don't count so do not even bother. Plantedside 2 is the only game I even see on the horizon, and with no monthly fee I will likely play both.
 

EPOQ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,071
It's not F2P, there's just no subscription. You still have to buy the game, unlike a f2p. They've probably already made back close to the cost of development with pre-sales.
I know, I just dont know what else to call the model. F2PAYBTB? Free To Play After You Buy The Box?
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
962
Game is fun. No subscription fee. Looking at both betas, they were incredibly addicting to me. In addition, there's an optional gem shop purely for things that are optional: extra character slots, etc.

Not regretting my purchase at all. Easily 30 hours put into the game and it isn't even released.
 

Liqq

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
398
what if your business model isn’t based on a subscription? What if your content-design motivations aren’t driven by the need to create mechanics that keep people playing as long as possible? When looking at content design for Guild Wars 2, we’ve tried to ask the question: What if the development of the game was based on…wait for it…fun?


taken from the blog... This really just hits it for me, Arenanet gets it.
 

Intel_Hydralisk

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,743
taken from the blog... This really just hits it for me, Arenanet gets it.
Well, let's hope they deliver.



Overall I'm pretty satisfied with where GW2 is going... but you can't help but keep in the back of your mind videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E


And wonder hmm did they really stick to everything they said in that video?...

"Fully branching personalized storyline" - I don't recall the personal story ever branching. Maybe it does later but it's pretty much the definition of linear right now. Also, they use the word personal and personalized very gratuitously. It changes slightly based on a couple of your responses when making your character but that's about it.

The art team really did a good job I feel. They definitely nailed the look and feel of the world.

"And then when you play the combat in our game you will say Wow that's incredible! I've never seen anything like that..." "I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey~~~" ... Hmm, actually that's what the combat is right now. No offense Anet... but you oversold the combat a great deal, not sure how it can be changed at this point. The Roll mechanic needs to be looked at and mobs need to be designed with that in mind.

"Everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing. The boss you just killed will respawn 10 minutes later" - Sorry but this is still true in GW2. All of these events will respawn and the bosses still don't care that you're there. The good thing about hearts/events in GW2 is that it does promote player cooperation rather than competition to tag quest mobs etc.

"You get a quest step that says go kill 10 centaurs" - Sorry, but hearts and events really aren't any different. The plus (a big one) is that it cuts out the middle man. No need to visit town and gather quests then go figure out where to do them... then come back to the quest giver etc.

"You rescue a village that will stay rescued" - Until the same centaurs maraud it again after the event respawns.
 

Russ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Messages
1,875
Well, let's hope they deliver.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with where GW2 is going... but you can't help but keep in the back of your mind videos like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

And wonder hmm did they really stick to everything they said in that video?...

"Fully branching personalized storyline" - I don't recall the personal story ever branching. Maybe it does later but it's pretty much the definition of linear right now. Also, they use the word personal and personalized very gratuitously. It changes slightly based on a couple of your responses when making your character but that's about it.

The art team really did a good job I feel. They definitely nailed the look and feel of the world.

"And then when you play the combat in our game you will say Wow that's incredible! I've never seen anything like that..." "I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, hey~~~" ... Hmm, actually that's what the combat is right now. No offense Anet... but you oversold the combat a great deal, not sure how it can be changed at this point. The Roll mechanic needs to be looked at and mobs need to be designed with that in mind.

"Everybody around you is doing the same thing you're doing. The boss you just killed will respawn 10 minutes later" - Sorry but this is still true in GW2. All of these events will respawn and the bosses still don't care that you're there. The good thing about hearts/events in GW2 is that it does promote player cooperation rather than competition to tag quest mobs etc.

"You get a quest step that says go kill 10 centaurs" - Sorry, but hearts and events really aren't any different. The plus (a big one) is that it cuts out the middle man. No need to visit town and gather quests then go figure out where to do them... then come back to the quest giver etc.

"You rescue a village that will stay rescued" - Until the same centaurs maraud it again after the event respawns.
Well said, gotta agree with this. I'm excited for GW2, but I am not really as "omgcantwait" hyped as I was before I played the first BWE.

1) Events do respawn way too fast. They said after the first BWE event that they didn't turn up the frequency significantly for the beta, which I really found disturbing. They should be saying "it's OK for players that come by 30 minutes or an hour later to miss this event, there are plenty more for them to see" and the events should be scaled to happen once every few hours at the earliest.

You can increase the rewards for finishing them to compensate for players not seeing as many, and BAM without having to change anything other than numbers on a timer and reward you have a system where someone feels like "wow I really did save that town - and I got like half a level for doing it!" instead of "ok saved the town, lets get out of here before they come back and someone else has to save it 20 minutes later. Oh yea we got 5% of a level for that, better go try to do 20 more."

2) Combat is pretty bland. The dodge button is awesome, but to dodge the actual hits that are coming in goes beyond "skill" and is simply "luck." That or you're in such a big group (flinching is really significant in this game) or sitting safely at range that you completely ignore the attacks.

Many hard mobs (champions and dungeon creatures/bosses) have instant attacks (auto attacks) as well as instant AOE abilities that are not dodgeable by using the visual queues. Not to mention they do a pretty ridiculous portion of your HP when you consider that it's just an auto-attack or instant attack and you only have 1 heal every 20-30 seconds (considering an auto-attack can happen every 2 seconds).

Combat could be GREAT, but they need to make melee combat based on looking for visual queues and giving players more reaction time to dodge them, EVEN AUTO ATTACKS. Well I guess you could nerf enemy auto attack damage to the point where it's trivial and have players just need to dodge big wind-up attacks.

Wind-ups, "tells," and telegraphed attacks are NECESSARY in action RPGs and MMOs. You need to give players a chance to show skill, not just lucky guessing.
 

EPOQ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,071
Combat could be GREAT, but they need to make melee combat based on looking for visual queues and giving players more reaction time to dodge them, EVEN AUTO ATTACKS. Well I guess you could nerf enemy auto attack damage to the point where it's trivial and have players just need to dodge big wind-up attacks.

Wind-ups, "tells," and telegraphed attacks are NECESSARY in action RPGs and MMOs. You need to give players a chance to show skill, not just lucky guessing.
I'll agree with this. It's one of the things I really like about TERA. Once you've fought a mob you can see what it's tells are and then use that to your advantage when dodging attacks in the future. I hardly even used the Dodge in GW2 during BWE2. There never felt like a "right" time to use it. Especially in big battles, mobs were popping off big abilities instantly with no real way of telling when it was going to happen.
 

FranklyShankly

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
1,024
I'll agree with this. It's one of the things I really like about TERA. Once you've fought a mob you can see what it's tells are and then use that to your advantage when dodging attacks in the future. I hardly even used the Dodge in GW2 during BWE2. There never felt like a "right" time to use it. Especially in big battles, mobs were popping off big abilities instantly with no real way of telling when it was going to happen.
Yeah I think they definitely need to do a better job of telegraphing, especially when there's 30 people beating on a mob and a giant cloud of fire, sparks, and whatnot all over. Hard to read what the boss is doing when you can barely even see the thing.
 

Stiler

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
10,538
Yeah IMO Tera's combat is a bit more fun then GW2, mainly because their dodge abilties and how the npc's can have a "tell" about certain abilities they are going to use, you can make smart use of dodge and use it to your advantage.
 

Blkout

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
2,276
Is anyone at all running a single 6870 or even crossfire 6870's in the GW 2 beta yet? I think I keep reading that crossfire isn't working yet, so I'm just curious if anyone is using a 6870 and how is it running for them at max detail level and what resolution? I have a brother that's very much anticipating this game and he's got a single 6870 right now, soon to be crossfire 6870's, and I'm wondering what he can expect.

I've run the beta already on a HD 7950 and a GTX 670 and both run pretty well, although still not 60fps all the time.
 

Blkout

2[H]4U
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Messages
2,276
I'll agree with this. It's one of the things I really like about TERA. Once you've fought a mob you can see what it's tells are and then use that to your advantage when dodging attacks in the future. I hardly even used the Dodge in GW2 during BWE2. There never felt like a "right" time to use it. Especially in big battles, mobs were popping off big abilities instantly with no real way of telling when it was going to happen.
I used dodge quite a bit in the last BWE2, its more helpful when dealing when smaller mobs, or even 1-2 enemies with slower melee attacks.
 

Intel_Hydralisk

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
4,743
I used dodge quite a bit in the last BWE2, its more helpful when dealing when smaller mobs, or even 1-2 enemies with slower melee attacks.
It's very apparent that the dodge mechanic wasn't well thought out when you encounter bosses / dungeons like ascalon catacombs.

In general, melee fighting is a bit rough on the edges. Your character's auto attack (the "1" skill) tends to interfere a lot with your positioning. Your character likes to bounce back and forth for the sake of the animation. Rolling around to avoid attacks is extremely non rewarding for melee and is very hit or miss.

The "unique combat" for ranged classes boils down to circle strafing and rolling away. This isn't 'unique'. It's barely considered a departure from a game like WOW.

The real issue rears its ugly head for prolonged fights (bosses and packs in ascalon catacombs). There are a lot of attacks that either happen instantly (if you dodge it you basically got lucky) or happen so frequently it undermines the idea of rolling out of attacks. For example, the ranger mobs in ascalon catacombs. There's nothing you can really do about the ranger's auto attacks. You end up just zerging them without a lot of depth in the action. This ends up being true for just about every mob in there. If you die, just do your thing in downed state or let someone res you... or better yet just graveyard zerg since that's perfectly viable apparently.

Basically there's no real innovation beyond typical MMORPG's. It's certainly not the action RPG gameplay they seemed to have convinced everyone it was going to be. Games like Tera and Vindictus are most certainly much better examples.
 
Joined
Jun 17, 2005
Messages
962
Is anyone at all running a single 6870 or even crossfire 6870's in the GW 2 beta yet? I think I keep reading that crossfire isn't working yet, so I'm just curious if anyone is using a 6870 and how is it running for them at max detail level and what resolution? I have a brother that's very much anticipating this game and he's got a single 6870 right now, soon to be crossfire 6870's, and I'm wondering what he can expect.

I've run the beta already on a HD 7950 and a GTX 670 and both run pretty well, although still not 60fps all the time.
They haven't really put in the necessary "switch" to allow the system to use the GPU's as well as they should. They've done this intentionally and make the game run mostly on the CPU right now. They helped that in BWE2, but I expect to see more optimization in BWE3 and further before release.
 

EPOQ

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,071
Lol. Is this directed at U.S. players? 10am to 2pm on a Wednesday seems like a helluva weird time to try to do a stress test. Unless they are just performing a stress test on like......1 server. Lol.
 

drstk

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Aug 26, 2009
Messages
4,382
nope, its not only directed to US players.

tweet from earlier today
For those of you wondering about the time of the stress test: Keep in mind that we have a huge playerbase outside of the US. ^MK
 
Top