The Official Core 2 OverClocking Database *READ 1st Post for Instructions*

Discussion in 'Intel Processors' started by videomasterz, Dec 29, 2006.

  1. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    Posting rules are as follows:

    Credit is given to mentok1982 for creating this Conroe Database Since Ever Since July 14, 2006, taken over by me Dec 2006.

    First and Foremost what ever I (videomasterz) says goes. If I say AMD 64 kicks Conroe's ass like nothing , then thats my opinion and it goes, lol just joking here :D

    BUT seriously if there is any arguement about a users claim for an overclock or anything of that sort feel free to pm me and I will look into it, but basically what I am saying is I have the final say, if I decide upon what I want to do then accept that and its final. Ok got that out of the way moving along.

    NOTE: Database will be attempted to be updated daily, but at least 4 times a week. Thanks for your understanding. <--- lol update now 03/2008 I am updating DB at least ONCE a week now, sorry for the inconvenience.

    RULE #1: I will require the following data for each OC submission to the database.

    MUST! Be posted in the following format:

    User Name: (Example: videomasterz)
    Stability: (Example: 4hours+ Small FFTs orthos, 4hours+ Prime95)

    CPU: (Example: E8400, X6800, QX6700)
    OC: (Example: 3403MHz)
    Stepping: (Example: 6 B2)
    Week: (Example: L623)
    Code: (Example: A790)
    Vcore: (Example: 1.425) "Stock" is not acceptable. Stock voltage varies from different motherboard manufacturers.

    Cooling: (Example: Air, Water, Phase)
    Cooler brand/model: (Example: Thermalright Ultra 120X, Thermaltake blue orb2, Scythe Infinity)

    Motherboard: (Example: eVGA 680i, Gigabyte GA-965P-DS4)
    Bios Version: (Example: P23, F4E)
    Operating System: (Examples: XP 32, XP 64, Vista, OS X)

    RAM brand: (Example: Corsair)
    RAM rated speed: (Example: 6400)
    RAM actual speed: (Example: 942)
    Latency: (Example: 4-4-4-12)

    The following Rules below are here to prove that your overclock is legit and stable, meaning stable enough that you can run CPU-Z or Orothos for example without blue screening (BSOD)

    RULE #2: I will require either a screenshot of CPU-Z, CPU-ID or a CPU-Z validation link. Example of CPU-Z validation link: http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=150924

    RULE #3: Overclock entries must be submitted with a screenshot of at least a 4 hour Prime95, Orthos (small FFTs please) or SP2004 run (all cores) to be included in the main database.

    RULE #4: For the main (stable/completed) database, each user will get up to 3 entries for each setup. An example of a setup would be an E6600 on an Asus P5W DH motherboard. 2nd setup would be an x6800 on an eVGA 680i board. 3rd setup would be a QX6700 on an ASUS Striker Extreme board. That is it, no more than 3 entries per member.

    RULE #5: I will maintain a list for overclocks that are not proven to be stable. There will be 5 entries for each CPU Category (eg: e6600, e6700, x6800) and each user will be allowed 1 entry for each setup.


    Conroe Stepping Info (Week and Code)

    (The Week and Code are found on the CPU box and on the CPU itself.)
    A-1 = stepping 1-------------In form of L6##----In form of A###
    B-0 = stepping 4-------------Example: L617A846= Week L617 Code A846
    B-1 = stepping 5
    B-2 = stepping 6

    KEY:
    Green = Completed Result (all columns filled)
    Black = Not Completed Results (Some Columns Missing)


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Stats:

    [​IMG]

    Overclock Speeds that arnt proven to be stable yet:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Cali3350

    Cali3350 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,654
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    Mar 22, 2002
    Yes, i know this isnt long enough to prove it to your standards, but i assure this is rock solid stable. Running it at this for well over 24 hours in game time, and i ran orthos for 6:41:03 rock solid. Ill run it overnight and upload a new pic tommorow:

    http://novicee.com/pics/6300.JPG


    User Name: Cali3350
    Stability: 6:41 Orthos stable

    CPU:E6300
    OC: 3006 mhz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L628
    Code: A790
    Vcore: 1.23


    Cooling: Stock

    Motherboard: Biostar T-force 965PT
    Bios Version: P96ca914bs
    Operating System: XP

    RAM brand: Geil
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 860
    Latency: 5-5-5-15
     
  3. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    hello Cali3350, yes thats a good start, please edit your post to reflect the format under Rule #1, and i will add your oc to the database thanks :)
     
  4. CyC

    CyC 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,700
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2000
    User Name: CyC
    Stability: 20 hours Orthos Blend

    CPU: E6600 (Lapped)
    OC: 3600mhz (400x9)
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L628
    Code: B368
    vCore: 1.40
    vMCH: 1.55
    vICH: 1.05
    PCI: 33
    PCI Express: 100

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Tuniq Tower 120
    Full Load Temp: 50c
    Idle Temp: 32c

    Motherboard: Asus P5W-DH Deluxe
    Bios Version: 1707
    Operating System: XP Pro x86

    RAM brand: Patriot
    RAM rated speed: 667
    RAM actual speed: 800
    Latency: 4-4-4-12

    http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=149015

    [​IMG]
     
  5. keldegar

    keldegar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    339
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    User Name: keldegar
    Stability: 6 hours Orthos Blend (Have done more but no SS)

    CPU: E6400
    OC: 3336mhz (417x8)
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L628
    Code: B381
    vCore: 1.3875
    vMCH: default
    vICH: default
    PCI: 33
    PCI Express: 100

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Arctic Cooling Freezer Pro 7
    Full Load Temp: 51c
    Idle Temp: 37c

    Motherboard: Asus P5B-E
    Bios Version: 0706
    Operating System: XP Pro 32-bit

    RAM brand: Corsair
    RAM rated speed: 675
    RAM actual speed: 834
    Latency: 4-4-4-12

    [​IMG]
     
  6. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    Added Cyc, and keldegar to database, will update pic in about 12 hours thanks :)
     
  7. chrisf6969

    chrisf6969 [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    9,014
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    User Name: chrisf6969
    Stability: Orthos 9+ hours

    CPU: E6600
    OC: 3200MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L624
    Code: A824
    Vcore: 1.4875

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler: Scythe Infinity

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
    Bios Version: F9 *
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: G.Skill
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 800
    Latency: 4-4-4-12

    [​IMG]
    * - This screen shot was with F7 bios, but I tested last night with F9 bios and it was just as stable. I didn't take a screenshot this morning, but please use F9 for DB

    Also, please remove my 3006Mhz entry as its basically the same thing as my 3015Mhz entry. The 3015 entry was with different (case & HSF) cooling that I couldn't use as much voltage with.

    WOW, look at how many DS3 users there are!!
     
  8. mentok1982

    mentok1982 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,359
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    Sep 17, 2004
    It is back! And it is looking better than ever.

    Your update schedule sure is a grueling one. I was able to update once a day when I started
    the original thread but then I got overwhelmed and I updated whenever I had the time and energy.
    I wish you luck videomasterz! :D

    I am going to PM the mods now to see if we can get this thread stickied.

    EDIT:
    Success! Stickieness has been achieved. Thanks to BlindedByScience of course.
     
  9. keldegar

    keldegar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    339
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    Dec 11, 2006
    in the E6400 section there seems to be a typo on Wall7486. It says his CPU is 3334Mhz, but that isn't possible on the 8x multi. Especially since his RAM is at 826Mhz. So it's most likely that he is running at 3304mhz (413 x 8)
     
  10. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

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    hello keldegar.. since i recently took over this database i only added 2 entries so far.. hehe and for sure didnt add Wall7486, but i will look at the old thread and see if it was a miss entry or a typo, thanks for pointing it out :)
     
  11. theelectic

    theelectic Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    362
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    User Name: theelectic
    Stability: only shows 4 hours in screenshot below, but has run 20+ hours of Orthos blend & Intel TAT 100% load at same time with no problems

    CPU: E6300
    OC: 3220MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L628
    Code: A574
    Vcore: 1.4V

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 rev 1.0 C2
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: OCZ
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 920
    Latency: 5-5-5-15

    http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=151254

    [​IMG]
     
  12. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    Nov 9, 2006
  13. Battleneter2

    Battleneter2 Gawd

    Messages:
    973
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2006
    User Battleneter2

    Have run for longer in the past but wanted to use my pc :p
    Might be time to replace my cooler, not doing so well since I can go over 3 gig now, but hey not bad for stock.


    CPU: E6300
    OC: 3311MHZ
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L632
    Code: A868
    Vcore: 1.3625 (bios)

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Intel Stock cooler

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 rev 1.0 C1
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: Corsair
    RAM rated speed: 5400
    RAM actual speed: 946
    Latency: 5-6-6-20

    [​IMG]
     
  14. keldegar

    keldegar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    339
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    Dec 11, 2006
    battleneter2, do you have Corsair XMS2 DDR675 RAM?

    I was wondering how to get my RAM higher.. i never thought to use 5-6-6-20 latencies..

    i tried 5-5-5-18 but that wasn't stable
     
  15. keldegar

    keldegar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    339
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    Dec 11, 2006
    bah my mobo won't let me do 5-6-6-20 (last # can only be 18 highest)

    and it won't post with those settings :(

    Anyway.. I downclocked to 3.2ghz, I actually dropped 3C since my last time I ran 3.2ghz.. I think my AS5 finally set in.

    Also when I benchmark my memory, i get MORE memory bandwith @ ddr2-800 than at ddr2-834? (same latencies).

    Must be the "strapping". I also get almost nearly the same super Pi 1M times at 3.2ghz (400x8) vs. 3.34ghz (417x8)
     
  16. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    Nov 9, 2006
    UPDATE:
    Added: theelectic and Battleneter2 to database.

    Deleted: None

    First Post Updated.
     
  17. boshuter

    boshuter Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    379
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    Mar 25, 2003
    I posted my "unstable" results with an E6700 in the old thread right before it turned to crap and they never got added. Are they still in the old thread, or do I need to do them again. Getting ready to make another run, same cpu, different board and will be on DI instead of phase this time.

    BTW... this quote from rule #4 just doesn't look right...

    "For the main (stable/completed) database, each user will get up to 3 entries for each setup. An example of a setup would be an E6600 on an Asus P5W DH motherboard. 2nd setup would be an x6800 on an eVGA 680i board. 3rd setup would be an AMD X2 4200+ on a DFI LanParty UT NF4 SLI-DR board. That is it, no more than 3 entries per member."

    why would anyone post an AMD X2 4200 result in a Conroe Database thread? ;)
     
  18. Forsaken1

    Forsaken1 Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    242
    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2006
    User: Forsaken1
    Stability: Orthos 4hours+

    CPU X6800
    OC: 3865
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L627
    Code: A664
    Vcore: 1.575v

    Cooling: Water
    Cooler brand/model: Titian robela

    Motherboard: Abit AW9D-MAX
    Bios Version: 1.b3
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand:Team Group
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 804
    Latency: 4-4-4-10

    Screenshot
    Validation
     
  19. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    yes boshuter... please post here with your new results... that will be cool....

    good job man ... :D you have good eyes..... i was up late trying to do the rules to give examples of each.. and didnt realize i put an AMD cpu in there.. ahhaha.. ill edit it right now...
     
  20. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
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    hey there buddy.. whoa whoa.. we may have a winner here! :D :cool:

    looks like the higest stable OC for x6800... :D Congrats dude..will update db in about 12 hours again :p
     
  21. Battleneter2

    Battleneter2 Gawd

    Messages:
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    Nov 3, 2006
    I have tested the ram at my posted speeds with the ram at 2.1V and 2.2 volts (+3 +4) that seemed to be ok. 2:2 ratio.

    Also tried 5-5-5-18 and that seemed OK as well. 5-5-5-15 I have only tested for a short time but so far ok.

    If you have tried these in the past I guess it is just tolerance difference relating to ram and or mobo.



    ******* Op thanks for adding me, can you change my Mobo from "GA-965P-DS3" to "GA-965P-S3" as I like my cheap little mobo.
     
  22. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

    Messages:
    2,532
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2006
    Just wanted to update my entry - I've been tweaking things for a few days and I've finally settled my system into what I'll be running all the time. Went from a 3.4Ghz overclock to 3.666Ghz overclock! (Slightly more evil! :p ) Thanks!

    User Name: Supercharged_Z06
    Stability: 4hours+ Small FFTs Orthos
    CPU: E6700
    OC: 3666MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L629
    Code: A851
    Vcore: 1.4875
    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Zalman 9700
    Motherboard: eVGA 680i
    Bios Version: P23
    Operating System: XP 32
    RAM brand: Super Talent
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 1008
    Latency: 4-4-3-8

    CPU-Z Validated link:
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  23. JethroXP

    JethroXP [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,181
    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    W00t! First Quad Core!

    User Name: JethroXP
    Stability: 4hours+ Small FFTs SP2004

    CPU: QX6700
    OC: 3200MHz
    Stepping: 7 B3
    Week: L638
    Code: A588
    Vcore: 1.35

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Zalman CNPS9500

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 (Rev 2.0)
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: WinXP Pro 32bit

    RAM brand: Corsair
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 800
    Latency: 5-5-5-18

    CPU-Z Validation

    Proof of stability:
    [​IMG]

    I've actually had it running at 3.41GHz (11x310) but I was only seen very little benefit from that, so given that I paid over $1100 for this CPU I figured better safe than sorry ;)
     
  24. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
    834
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    Nov 9, 2006
    UPDATE:
    Added: Forsaken1, and JethroXP to database.

    Deleted: None.

    Editted: Supercharged_Z06 to reflect new OC 3,666MHz

    First post reflects current changes. Please REFRESH!

    *i guess this is gonna be a conroe/kentsfield oc database.. lol*
     
  25. keldegar

    keldegar Limp Gawd

    Messages:
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    Dec 11, 2006
    aren't quad cores kentsfield and not conroe? I guess its just semantics, nice overclock :D
     
  26. thumper2002

    thumper2002 n00b

    Messages:
    30
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2003
    Here's my entry:

    User Name: thumper2002
    Stability: 4hours+ Small FFTs orthos

    CPU: E6300
    OC: 3290MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L629
    Code: A214
    Vcore: 1.45v in Bios or 1.41v in windows

    Cooling: Water
    Cooler brand/model: Swiftech

    Motherboard: P5B Deluxe wifi
    Bios Version: 0804
    Operating System: XP Pro Sp2

    RAM brand: OCZ
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 940
    Latency: 4-5-4-12

    [​IMG]
     
  27. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
    834
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    UPDATE:
    Added: thumper2002 to database.

    Deleted: None.

    Editted: None

    First post reflects current changes. Please REFRESH!
     
  28. paladin0

    paladin0 Gawd

    Messages:
    632
    Joined:
    May 9, 2001
    User Name: paladin0
    Stability: 6 hours Orthos small FFT

    CPU: E6600
    OC: 3704MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L628
    Code: A574
    Vcore: 1.5625V

    Cooling: Water
    Cooler brand/model: Danger Den TDX

    Motherboard: Gigabyte DS3 rev 1.0
    Bios Version: F8
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: Super Talent
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 926
    Latency: 4-4-3-8

    http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=151902

    Screen Shot
     
  29. civic00typer

    civic00typer Gawd

    Messages:
    517
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2003
    User Name: civic00typer
    Stability: 24 hours Prime95

    CPU: E6300
    OC: 3500MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L629
    Code: A309
    Vcore: 1.400

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: ArcCool Freezer7 Pro

    Motherboard: Asus P5B Deluxe
    Bios Version: 0804
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: Crucial Ballistix
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 500
    Latency: 5-5-5-15

    http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=152036

    Prime 95 (24 hours): http://www.maximushome.com/Prime95 24 hour.JPG

    CPU Tab: http://www.maximushome.com/CPU Tab.JPG
    Mainboard Tab: http://www.maximushome.com/Mainboard Tab.JPG
    Memory Tab: http://www.maximushome.com/Memory Tab.JPG
     
  30. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
    834
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    UPDATE:
    Added: paladin0 and civic00typer to database.

    Deleted: None.

    Editted: None.

    First post reflects current changes. Please REFRESH!
     
  31. mentok1982

    mentok1982 [H]ardness Supreme

    Messages:
    4,359
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Finally we have a QX6700 result. Looks like it overclocked well with just some Zalman love.
    I am planing on getting a Q6600 for my new rig. I just got the case today as the first part of
    my new build. The black Thermaltake Armor full sized case. Newegg had a $25.00 dollar
    rebate so I jumped on it.
     
  32. wdn

    wdn Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    504
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    EDIT: Zalman 9700 fan

    User Name: wdn
    Stability:10 hours

    CPU: E6400
    OC: 3296
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L631
    Code: B271
    Vcore:1.325

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Zalman 9700 LED

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Rev 2.0
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: XP 32 service pack 2

    RAM brand: Corsair CM2X1024-6400C4
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 800
    Latency: 4-4-4-12 2T


    This is a brand new Gigabyte DS3 Rev 2.0 board. Using Zalman 9700 LED fan. e6400 CPU voltage of 1.325 volts I am getting a very stable 3296MHz (8x multiplier @ 412 MHz clock).

    This is the newer Crucial 6400C4 memory with the Promos chips

    I couldn't attach the photo directly so follow this link and click on the magnifying glass icon at the bottom of the page that says "view full size photo"

    http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2924540660044734647FVuTar
     
  33. stain.

    stain. [H]ard|Gawd

    Messages:
    1,045
    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2006
    User Name: Stain.
    Stability: not very stable... :D

    CPU: E6600
    OC: 3.8ish
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: (Example: L623)
    Code: (Example: A790)
    Vcore:1.425

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: zalman 9500at

    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: XP 32 service pack 2

    RAM brand: Corsair cm2x1048 8500c5d
    RAM rated speed: 8500
    RAM actual speed: 854
    Latency: 5-5-5-18

    http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=152579

    I just want to have a high clock speed... :D
     
  34. sandness

    sandness [H]Lite

    Messages:
    85
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    User Name: sandness
    Stability: 28hours+ Small FFTs orthos

    CPU: E6300
    OC: 3150MHz
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L629
    Code: B098
    Vcore: 1.325

    Cooling: Water
    Cooler brand/model: Swiftech MCW6000

    Motherboard: Gigabyte 965P-S3
    Bios Version: F7
    Operating System: XP 32

    RAM brand: G.Skill
    RAM rated speed: 6400
    RAM actual speed: 900
    Latency: 4-4-4-12


    [​IMG]
     
  35. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
    834
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    *wdn please include a screenshot showing more than 4 hours at prime, I only saw 8 minutes, then I'll add you sorry about that man*

    UPDATE:
    Added: stain. (Added one more entry of stain. different RAM being used cmpared to last entry [corsair6400] ) and sandness to database.

    Deleted: None.

    Editted: None.

    First post reflects current changes. Please REFRESH!
     
  36. Damuman

    Damuman Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    230
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    that background is hilarious, link plz?
     
  37. agibby5

    agibby5 Gawd

    Messages:
    538
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    User Name: agibby5
    Stability: 10 hours Orthos Small FFTs

    CPU: E6400
    OC: 3200mhz (400&#215;8)
    Stepping: 6 B2
    Week: L632
    Code: A314
    vCore: 1.368

    Cooling: Air
    Cooler brand/model: Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
    Full Load Temp: 57c
    Idle Temp: 46c

    Motherboard: Asus P5B-Deluxe
    Bios Version: 0804
    Operating System: XP Pro 32bit

    RAM brand: Crucial Ballistix
    RAM rated speed: 800
    RAM actual speed: 800
    Latency: 4-4-4-12
    Ratio: 1:1

    CPU-Z Validated


    [​IMG]

    EDIT: add pic of actual computer... strictly for enjoyment...
    [​IMG]
     
  38. wdn

    wdn Limp Gawd

    Messages:
    504
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2006
    Hi Videomasterz -- I edited my post above and added the new screenshots as requested: 10 hours+ on prime95, now at 3,296 MHz overclock. Feel free to delete this post after reading, thanks.

     
  39. videomasterz

    videomasterz Gawd

    Messages:
    834
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    UPDATE:
    Added: wdn (thx for updated screen and bench) and agibby5 (you need the week and code to be green/complete.. thx) to database.

    Deleted: None.

    Editted: None.

    First post reflects current changes. Please REFRESH!
     
  40. agibby5

    agibby5 Gawd

    Messages:
    538
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2006
    Where can I get that information from... I see that other people are already in the database without that same information... How did that happen?