The New EVE: Apocrypha

[SAW]

Probes....

I like this part of the game. Its a complete mystery what you will find with them. Ive been doing probing a few times now...found myself an Omber site that has Golden Omber, Silvery Omber and, of course, regular Omber. I made some decent ISK reprocessing the Omber and getting some Isogen which sold nicely (well, decent amount of ISK for a newb anyways).

I have one complaint though with the Probes scanning sphere. When you start to triangulate a given location and start reducing the probes scanning radius, then start overlapping the scanning spheres, it really REALLY starts to get a bit confusing (at least for me) to see WHICH probes sphere is overlapping what/eachother. From one angle, it looks like you have the sphere overlapping your site, but then you look at it from a different angle and notice you werent even close.

I was curious what you guys thought about this idea....and if you think its a good idea, I'll submit it to OCP and maybe, just MAYBE they will listen.

The idea is to allow the player to choose a color for the scanning sphere. This would eliminate any confusion as to which sphere is overlapping what/eachother.

Good idea or no?

 

[Atech]

Probes....

I like this part of the game. Its a complete mystery what you will find with them. Ive been doing probing a few times now...found myself an Omber site that has Golden Omber, Silvery Omber and, of course, regular Omber. I made some decent ISK reprocessing the Omber and getting some Isogen which sold nicely (well, decent amount of ISK for a newb anyways).

I have one complaint though with the Probes scanning sphere. When you start to triangulate a given location and start reducing the probes scanning radius, then start overlapping the scanning spheres, it really REALLY starts to get a bit confusing (at least for me) to see WHICH probes sphere is overlapping what/eachother. From one angle, it looks like you have the sphere overlapping your site, but then you look at it from a different angle and notice you werent even close.

I was curious what you guys thought about this idea....and if you think its a good idea, I'll submit it to OCP and maybe, just MAYBE they will listen.

The idea is to allow the player to choose a color for the scanning sphere. This would eliminate any confusion as to which sphere is overlapping what/eachother.

Good idea or no?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Thuleman]

You know there are times when you want both a MWD and AB fitted to a ship, especially for PvP. Use MWD to get in range, start orbit at 1000m. If you get warp scrambled the MWD will be disabled at which stage you enable the AB that still will work and keep on orbiting at full speed, outtracking the guns on the enemy ship.

I would be curious to see an operational fit, rather than talking about the application of both MWD and AB on one ship, preferably a fit that didn't appear in the LOLkillmail thread on SHC yet.

Surely there is a theoretical use of AB and MWD in one ship. There's also a theoretical use to hulltank, armortank, and shieldtank the same ship. However, just because something looks good on paper (or EFT for that matter), doesn't mean there is an actual operational application for it.

Also AB is a god sent to use on Assault frigates, even if I'm warp scrambled and double webbed in my jaguar your cruiser still can't hit me at all with guns.

I can see AB working in Empire, in 0.0 the only thing AB is good for outside of CovOps (many don't even use it in CovOps, I do and I haven't lost a cheetah yet) is reprocessing.

 

[WarriorX]

I would be curious to see an operational fit, rather than talking about the application of both MWD and AB on one ship, preferably a fit that didn't appear in the LOLkillmail thread on SHC yet.

Surely there is a theoretical use of AB and MWD in one ship. There's also a theoretical use to hulltank, armortank, and shieldtank the same ship. However, just because something looks good on paper (or EFT for that matter), doesn't mean there is an actual operational application for it.


I can see AB working in Empire, in 0.0 the only thing AB is good for outside of CovOps (many don't even use it in CovOps, I do and I haven't lost a cheetah yet) is reprocessing.

What about a Vaga. A MWD, AB, scram, and a LSE. Most fits have 2 LSE, but this fit would loose some buffer but make it up for speed.

 

[Frostex]

OK so I really got into this during the 21 day trial which is now up, the first time I tried it was maybe a few years ago now and I had other problems that made me stop playing, after getting to grips with it now I like it.

But I can't bring myself to pay for it...

First of all as Yahtzee puts in his review, it's like an executive toy, I log on every few hours to check progress and maybe run a mission or 2, whenever I set long distance waypoints I alt tab and watch a tv episode...it's a nice little time waster but I could never take this seriously, and it's a serious game.

Secondly, it asks you to subscribe to a harsh world where getting all your hard earned shit blown up is likely to happen. And while I can justify the time sink for most normal MMOs, I can't justify the time sink if all I work for can be destroyed in more or less just a few battles.

Good game though, just not for me.

 

[MetalX]

It's all relative I suppose. I registered my trial account 3 days in and am now working on an alt account. Can't get enough of this game.

 

[Atech]

OK so I really got into this during the 21 day trial which is now up, the first time I tried it was maybe a few years ago now and I had other problems that made me stop playing, after getting to grips with it now I like it.

But I can't bring myself to pay for it...

First of all as Yahtzee puts in his review, it's like an executive toy, I log on every few hours to check progress and maybe run a mission or 2, whenever I set long distance waypoints I alt tab and watch a tv episode...it's a nice little time waster but I could never take this seriously, and it's a serious game.

Secondly, it asks you to subscribe to a harsh world where getting all your hard earned shit blown up is likely to happen. And while I can justify the time sink for most normal MMOs, I can't justify the time sink if all I work for can be destroyed in more or less just a few battles.

Good game though, just not for me.

The part where your actions/choices actually have consequences is the part that appeals me the most.
No fuzzy-warm-feelings-holding-hand ingame...like in e.g WoW.

 

[eggrock]

The generally high level of maturity is appealing, too.

 

[SAW]

The part where your actions/choices actually have consequences is the part that appeals me the most.
No fuzzy-warm-feelings-holding-hand ingame...like in e.g WoW.

QFT.

Was going to say the same thing. This is what allures me to the game, the aspect that if you do something dumb and dont think it thru, it CAN cost you. Other "un-named" games just turn you into a ghost and you get to run back but magically, all your stuff is protected.

In this game, its what you put into it that matters. I really like that aspect.

 

[Thuleman]

I think there's no real sense in comparing EVE to other MMOs as EVE is fundamentally different than even other pure PVP MMOs. WoW is great in its own right, but comparing it to EVE isn't apples to oranges, it's more like apples to small machine parts.

EVE often requires that the player has long term foresight, long terms as in months, if not years. EVE also requires that the player spends a lot of time outside of the actual game familiarizing himself with game mechanics and brainstorming how those mechanics can be used in PvP or PvE (industry).

A few posts up I wrote a rather strong rebuttal to putting an MWD and AB on the same ship. However, that doesn't mean what Mashie said was wrong, or impossible, it only meant that in most all cases you wouldn't want to do it that way because the downsides outweigh the benefits. Still, the very fact that one thinks about what an MWD and AB does, how it could be used, and when it would make sense to have both, is what EVE is all about.

EVE very much benefits from natural planning, which in turn requires imagination.
You imagine yourself doing something, or you imagine how cool it would be to do something. That's a defined outcome. You also know where you are at right now. The human brain is excellent at filling in the required steps how to get from where you are at to where you want to be IF you have enough information about the process of "getting there".

In EVE, for PvP, this means you need to be familiar with ship attributes, module functions and attributes, game mechanics, and have the intuition to accurately predict how your opponents will likely be set up and play the game.

To know these things requires that you spend time in-game testing your own approaches and learn how others do things. It requires that you essentially study how EVE works out of game. And it requires imagination.

WoW for example has a very simple set of game rules. The appeal of the game is that you don't need to learn much at all, and that no matter what happens in game, the odds of logging off with a feeling of "instant gratification" are near 100%. EVE is all about delayed gratification, which IMHO also makes EVE a great game for younger kids because it teaches patience and persistence.

Ahh ...., so much text already ..., I could go on and on, lol .... enough for now.

 

[Frostex]

QFT.

Was going to say the same thing. This is what allures me to the game, the aspect that if you do something dumb and dont think it thru, it CAN cost you. Other "un-named" games just turn you into a ghost and you get to run back but magically, all your stuff is protected.

In this game, its what you put into it that matters. I really like that aspect.

It can also cost you if you randomly run into a bunch of people more powerful than you in < 0.5 space, the amount of griefing is huge, thats precisely why the goonsquad continue to play this game.

If you could only suffer through your own mistakes then fine, but lets face it, the game is full of assholes who are just going to prowl around >0.5 space and take a stab at you any chance they get.

 

[MetalX]

but lets face it, LIFE is full of assholes who are just going to prowl around <0.5 space and take a stab at you any chance they get.

Fixed and I agree, hence my love for Eve.

 

[Thuleman]

I can only guess you don't fly assault frigates. Their new role is to fly with AB and warp scramblers fitted. Anything bigger than a frig can't hit you as soon as you start orbit at 1-2km. Even if you get webbed they still can't hit you. And as you have disabled their MWD it is no way for them to get any transversal at all built up.

Yup, I don't fly AF.
I did run it through EFT though and I can see that AFs will go ~1,800m/s with AB, up to ~2,300m/s with OD(s). I cba to buy an AF to try this out, but I can't imagine that it will be possible to hold a circular 2km orbit at 1,800m/s. The elliptical orbit will necessarily result in areas of low to very low transversal and much incoming damage from the target. I am currently traveling but once back home I'd love to try this out on the test server and see how well that would work when put to the test.

Either way though, my personal take on this is that an AF is too expensive to tackle when compared to a frigate, and not enough DPS in comparison to a cruiser (or heck, even a destroyer). I am not hurting for ISK, but I still can't bring myself to throwing out 25+mil on an AF.

 

[TekRok]

i tried this game a while back and just couldnt figure out what to do. i played some complicated MMOs before like planetside and i still couldnt figure out how to do things. i didnt want to go asking for help because then i wouldnt be able to learn on my own. this games seems very, well, slow and complicated, but i bet its a lot of fun. i like games that associate with space. but i just dont have the time to learn it

 

[eggrock]

Help is almost a requirement in this game--the principles are so much like life (but without the grind) that it's got to be one of those games that you love or just don't care about.

2 weeks in and I got to experience life in a wormhole, just me and my Kestrel, a Caracal and Raven(?). Yep, just me and my Kest--pod. lol

 

[MetalX]

I have a question about doing Agent missions. I'm still new and I'm doing Level I missions for a State War Academy agent all day. Besides Isk, what am I gaining from doing these? I see my standing with the corporation is increasing while lowering my refining tax in the process but what are the other benefits? Which other corporation agents should I work on next and why?

I also spent some time yesterday doing a lot of the Epic Arc missions but again besides Isk I'm wondering what is the benefit because I figured the time would be better spent concentrating on my own corporation's agents.

 

[WarriorX]

I have a question about doing Agent missions. I'm still new and I'm doing Level I missions for a State War Academy agent all day. Besides Isk, what am I gaining from doing these? I see my standing with the corporation is increasing while lowering my refining tax in the process but what are the other benefits? Which other corporation agents should I work on next and why?

I also spent some time yesterday doing a lot of the Epic Arc missions but again besides Isk I'm wondering what is the benefit because I figured the time would be better spent concentrating on my own corporation's agents.

I suggest you find an agent, that has the missions you want to do, and start running them. Dont waste time with a crappy corp that doesnt have the missions you want. If you like combat, Caldari Navy is great. Only problem is finding a decent system that doesnt have 100 people in local. Amarr has some decent agents, but that means traveling across the galaxy.

 

[MetalX]

I prefer mining/courier and I'm in the Caldari region.

 

[SAW]

At the beginning, I had those initial first 3 newb agents. Did some mission from all 3, but only followed up to the finish on one of them, then wondered off doing other things. Next thing I know, I get an EVE-mail from the other 2 agents telling me they are very disappointed in me for not finishing with them. I was like....Ohhh man....hope I didnt screw up already.

Managed to find 3 more newb agents again handing out the exact same missions, but this time I stuck with it and completed them all. After completing them, I now have several Indi ships as well as Tristans, Navitas and Iterons. I have lots of ships now, so many actually, im not sure what to do with them cause since I got a Tristan, Ive not used any other ship. Anyways, I thought it was cool though that at first, I was struggling with the single rookie frigate and now....heh, I have a parking lot full of ships.

Soooo, I finished up those missions and was thinking....Hmmm, what to do what to do what to do????? So, just browsing thru my ITEMS menu, I was amazed at just how much stuff I had accumulated. LOTS and LOTS of stuff (to me anyways). So much stuff, I decided it was time to just get rid of most of the items I had 4 and 5 of.....So, I started browsing thru the Market menus again, found some median prices and went with it. What was funny was that almost as soon as I put some stuff into the market, it was bought up. Id look at my blinking wallet, click and see a bunch of GREEN numbers telling me my stuff had sold. VERY cool feeling to see that. Addictive too. So much so.....I started looking deeper into things...cost vs. profit vs. time vs. travel time. Ahhh yess....I found some good things to sell.

Since Im still a newb, this is where my experience lays...so, being a newb and thinking about what other newbs might want to have vs. what a typical newb who wasnt granted a special surplus of ISK could afford to buy...I decided to go shopping

Im just amazed at how much ISK I can earn off other peoples laziness. As I had asked before "This cant be THAT easy to do"....well, turns out, it totally is THAT easy. From the station I was at, I started looking at the Market and what was available AT THAT particular station. If I came across an item that a typical newb would usually want/need but it wasnt offered at that station, I started looking at where it was offered. Hmmm, 4 jumps away and ONLY 3000 ISK. Hmmm. So I spent the 5 minutes jumping from area to area, bought 10 of that item (what, you thought I would tell you what that item is ) and jumped back to original station. Put it on the market for 8000 isk and WHAM!!!!! It was like throwing cheese into a box of starving mice. Within...ohhh, 10 minutes of putting into the market, all 10 of them had sold. I made 50k in profit for 5 minutes of work. I COULD NOT believe it.

Now, 50k isk to a vet player is chump change, I know....but the principle of the matter is the same. I did this ALL night last night till the servers went down. I ended the night with a cool 1.5 million in my wallet, all from lazy gamers, hehehe. I wish making money in real life was as easy (or is it...hmmm) (if only someone I knew in real life would sport me 25mil bucks....ehh hmm...looking at you Thuleman ).

Before the end of the night though, I started thinking about making my own "items" from blueprints. I already have multiple bookmarks of areas I found thru Probing which seem to be ALL MINE to mine (heh). I have an Industrial ship...Hmmmmm (cant ya just hear the gears grinding in my head, lol ). Only thing about my Indi though is I can only fit ONE freakin mining laser to it which sucks, but it has a large cargo hold. Started looking for mining rigs. Was disappointed to see there are no such things . Hmmmmmm again. So, knowing this game has been out for quite some time, I cant possibly be the only one to think this way, there MUST be a solution to using an Indi's cargo hold (remember, im still a newb and not going to spend so much on a mining barge), yet still be able to mine quicker. Hmmmm.....and the solution hit me. Use my Tristan which I can fit 2 mining lasers to and 2 missile launchers (no matter what, never forget about protecting yourself, should the occasion arise). Mine the areas I have found and then fill a CONTAINER (I already have anchoring learned). Once its filled, warp back and get my Indi then go back and get my haul. Just as Indiana Jones' father said.."Ive found that if I sit down and think, the solution will present itself". Well, this solution just about slapped me in the face. Too bad the servers went down at that time or I would have played clear into the afternoon or till I passed out, which ever came first, hehe.

FA-REAKIN LOVIN THIS GAME!!!!!!!

Sorry if I bored you vets out there reading this, but I was proud of myself and wanted to share

 

[ultimatequix]

SAW:

If you're trained in cruisers yet, each race has a mining cruiser that will let you mine more efficiently. They can usually equip 4-5 mining lasers, and have bonuses to their yield for each mining cycle. Also, instead of using anchored cans, you can opt to just jetcan your ore. Jettisoned cans hold 27,500m3, which is way more than the giant secure containers you anchor will hold. Downside to this, of course, is that people can come and steal ore out of a regular jetcan. If you're in a less travelled system, however, jetcanning will decrease your amount of trips back and forth and less switching between your mining/hauling ships.

 

[SAW]

Thanks for the tip bro. I have not trained Cruisers yet and unfortunately, my 1.7mil sp deadline has passed. Just last night I got my level 5 LEARNING skill and that took a week. 27,500 m3 is definately more cargo space though, approximately 9x the space as my Indi can hold. I dont even recall looking at what a cruiser costs yet, heh. I will have to give it a looksee though for sure

 

[ZDPhoenix]

I freely admit to not being interested in EVE anymore. Risk/Reward is all well and good, but not after I had to fight myself and my lazy casual way of thinking to play the game.

 

[Atech]

Thanks for the tip bro. I have not trained Cruisers yet and unfortunately, my 1.7mil sp deadline has passed. Just last night I got my level 5 LEARNING skill and that took a week. 27,500 m3 is definately more cargo space though, approximately 9x the space as my Indi can hold. I dont even recall looking at what a cruiser costs yet, heh. I will have to give it a looksee though for sure

You took a different path than me then, Learning is level 5 in 38 hours for me...and that is with ~400.000 SP

 

[nubbin77]

My brother and I joined around the same time as SAW, and have been having fun with this game. Finally joined a corp 2 days ago, and have made more money in those 2 days then I did in 30+ days before. I got lucky that these guys are bringing in some new guys and are being nice enough to walk us through a bunch of missions and get us up to speed so we can help them out in the future. Looks like they are getting ready to start establishing a foothold out in 0.0 space and they need some help. I think this is perfect for me, I just hope they work with us new guys for a while yet before they get us too far out into 0.0. My 100% learning bonus is almost over... Going to be painful to train 1/2 speed, especially since it feels too slow at times already lol.

 

[Frostex]

Fixed and I agree, hence my love for Eve.

Life is less harsh than eve is, people can be more easily held accountable for their actions in real life and so people in general are respectful towards each other, in eve its easier to simply hide from anyone you agro, or sit in safe space until your enemy has cooled off and left.

The game also seems a whole lot more pointless in the grand scheme of things, joining a corp and fighting over materials that have no inherent value to them, it wouldn't be so bad if it was fun but most of it is just a management sim.

At least more traditional MMOs are more based around epic adventures, eve doesn't feel like a game it just feels like a sort of political simulator, while I find the management interesting I dont find any aspect of the game that fun, the parts I do find fun are few and far between all the other bits, the fun to time investment ratio is a bad one.

After starting to like it a bit I really just fell back in line with Yahtzees review, I can see why it appeals to some people but ultimately not for me.

 

[Thuleman]

The game also seems a whole lot more pointless in the grand scheme of things, joining a corp and fighting over materials that have no inherent value to them, it wouldn't be so bad if it was fun but most of it is just a management sim.

While I don't want to talk you into changing your mind, I do want to point out that it is possible to just log into EVE and have fun without to worry about anything management related at all.

Of course that "pure fun" is PvP only, EVE is indeed pointless on the PvE side (more pointless than other MMOs which are all pointless as well, it's just mindless entertainment either way).

Still, in PvP you can have sort of "instant action" if you join the factional warfare (FW) militia or a factional warfare corp. FW is often fought with ultra cheap ships, and you can participate after just a couple of weeks in game to train some rudimentary skills.

FW is a little like TF2 or games like that, except you still need to buy a ship when you respawn, but it's no big deal to do so. Just die, have a stack of fitted and ready to go ships in your hangar, update your clone, grab a new 200k ISK ship, and head back into the fray.

 

[crackbone]

At the beginning, I had those initial first 3 newb agents. Did some mission from all 3, but only followed up to the finish on one of them, then wondered off doing other things. Next thing I know, I get an EVE-mail from the other 2 agents telling me they are very disappointed in me for not finishing with them. I was like....Ohhh man....hope I didnt screw up already.

Managed to find 3 more newb agents again handing out the exact same missions, but this time I stuck with it and completed them all. After completing them, I now have several Indi ships as well as Tristans, Navitas and Iterons. I have lots of ships now, so many actually, im not sure what to do with them cause since I got a Tristan, Ive not used any other ship. Anyways, I thought it was cool though that at first, I was struggling with the single rookie frigate and now....heh, I have a parking lot full of ships.

Soooo, I finished up those missions and was thinking....Hmmm, what to do what to do what to do????? So, just browsing thru my ITEMS menu, I was amazed at just how much stuff I had accumulated. LOTS and LOTS of stuff (to me anyways). So much stuff, I decided it was time to just get rid of most of the items I had 4 and 5 of.....So, I started browsing thru the Market menus again, found some median prices and went with it. What was funny was that almost as soon as I put some stuff into the market, it was bought up. Id look at my blinking wallet, click and see a bunch of GREEN numbers telling me my stuff had sold. VERY cool feeling to see that. Addictive too. So much so.....I started looking deeper into things...cost vs. profit vs. time vs. travel time. Ahhh yess....I found some good things to sell.

Since Im still a newb, this is where my experience lays...so, being a newb and thinking about what other newbs might want to have vs. what a typical newb who wasnt granted a special surplus of ISK could afford to buy...I decided to go shopping

Im just amazed at how much ISK I can earn off other peoples laziness. As I had asked before "This cant be THAT easy to do"....well, turns out, it totally is THAT easy. From the station I was at, I started looking at the Market and what was available AT THAT particular station. If I came across an item that a typical newb would usually want/need but it wasnt offered at that station, I started looking at where it was offered. Hmmm, 4 jumps away and ONLY 3000 ISK. Hmmm. So I spent the 5 minutes jumping from area to area, bought 10 of that item (what, you thought I would tell you what that item is ) and jumped back to original station. Put it on the market for 8000 isk and WHAM!!!!! It was like throwing cheese into a box of starving mice. Within...ohhh, 10 minutes of putting into the market, all 10 of them had sold. I made 50k in profit for 5 minutes of work. I COULD NOT believe it.

Now, 50k isk to a vet player is chump change, I know....but the principle of the matter is the same. I did this ALL night last night till the servers went down. I ended the night with a cool 1.5 million in my wallet, all from lazy gamers, hehehe. I wish making money in real life was as easy (or is it...hmmm) (if only someone I knew in real life would sport me 25mil bucks....ehh hmm...looking at you Thuleman ).

Before the end of the night though, I started thinking about making my own "items" from blueprints. I already have multiple bookmarks of areas I found thru Probing which seem to be ALL MINE to mine (heh). I have an Industrial ship...Hmmmmm (cant ya just hear the gears grinding in my head, lol ). Only thing about my Indi though is I can only fit ONE freakin mining laser to it which sucks, but it has a large cargo hold. Started looking for mining rigs. Was disappointed to see there are no such things . Hmmmmmm again. So, knowing this game has been out for quite some time, I cant possibly be the only one to think this way, there MUST be a solution to using an Indi's cargo hold (remember, im still a newb and not going to spend so much on a mining barge), yet still be able to mine quicker. Hmmmm.....and the solution hit me. Use my Tristan which I can fit 2 mining lasers to and 2 missile launchers (no matter what, never forget about protecting yourself, should the occasion arise). Mine the areas I have found and then fill a CONTAINER (I already have anchoring learned). Once its filled, warp back and get my Indi then go back and get my haul. Just as Indiana Jones' father said.."Ive found that if I sit down and think, the solution will present itself". Well, this solution just about slapped me in the face. Too bad the servers went down at that time or I would have played clear into the afternoon or till I passed out, which ever came first, hehe.

FA-REAKIN LOVIN THIS GAME!!!!!!!

Sorry if I bored you vets out there reading this, but I was proud of myself and wanted to share

I made 550 million isk, my first month in the game, by ninja salvaging and moving items from one point to another, watching the market. It's not tough. You just have to be patient enough to keep your eyes open and want to do it. I'm on a Cov Ops/Black Ops Track, and right now, between the efficiency in which I can scan down mission runners, and the market , I've been doing really really good.

 

[Frostex]

While I don't want to talk you into changing your mind, I do want to point out that it is possible to just log into EVE and have fun without to worry about anything management related at all.

Of course that "pure fun" is PvP only, EVE is indeed pointless on the PvE side (more pointless than other MMOs which are all pointless as well, it's just mindless entertainment either way).

Still, in PvP you can have sort of "instant action" if you join the factional warfare (FW) militia or a factional warfare corp. FW is often fought with ultra cheap ships, and you can participate after just a couple of weeks in game to train some rudimentary skills.

FW is a little like TF2 or games like that, except you still need to buy a ship when you respawn, but it's no big deal to do so. Just die, have a stack of fitted and ready to go ships in your hangar, update your clone, grab a new 200k ISK ship, and head back into the fray.

Sounds like fun but working my ass off to afford ships just to blow up in PvP is just wrong to me, especially when Im paying to play in the first place.

 

[eggrock]

I made 550 million isk, my first month in the game, by ninja salvaging and moving items from one point to another, watching the market. It's not tough. You just have to be patient enough to keep your eyes open and want to do it. I'm on a Cov Ops/Black Ops Track, and right now, between the efficiency in which I can scan down mission runners, and the market , I've been doing really really good.

I was invited to a corp and flown around on an 'exploration' op, killed a few frigs/cruisers, then they grabbed all the cargo (looking for faction loot) and left the wrecks sitting there--WTF? I could pull in >1M in a Merlin on a level 2 mission, but they just ignored the wrecks entirely. I don't even think wrecks are flagged so a decent salvage setup seems like it could be highly lucrative, even if you don't kill the rats yourself, because I don't think wrecks are flagged. Am I right?

Of course, one can piss off someone else by stealing their loot but that's just the nature of the game.

Sounds like fun but working my ass off to afford ships just to blow up in PvP is just wrong to me, especially when Im paying to play in the first place.

Money's so easy to come by. I could see being upset if you were pumping money into implants and rigs and other you-die-you-lose stuff, but basic setups seem like they're cheap to the point of being disposable and cheaper if you're in a corp. Once you get into the high end stuff it's expensive, but then you're just asking for trouble and should be in a gang.

 

[crackbone]

I was invited to a corp and flown around on an 'exploration' op, killed a few frigs/cruisers, then they grabbed all the cargo (looking for faction loot) and left the wrecks sitting there--WTF? I could pull in >1M in a Merlin on a level 2 mission, but they just ignored the wrecks entirely. I don't even think wrecks are flagged so a decent salvage setup seems like it could be highly lucrative, even if you don't kill the rats yourself, because I don't think wrecks are flagged. Am I right?

Of course, one can piss off someone else by stealing their loot but that's just the nature of the game.

Yep, wrecks aren't flagged. But that doesn't mean it doesn't get dangerous..... The key is locating lvl 3-4 mission runners and getting a boat that can handle Expanded Probe Launcher/Combat Probes. (Heron works well)... I tried running two separate boats, but I found a Heron, loaded up with every bit of speed you can throw on it, and perhaps a salvage tackle works the best. It takes patience, and you have to be on your toes.. (ie, you head into a lvl 3 mission with a scan frig, and the mission runner decides to warp out to give you aggro... ) But it's highly lucrative once you get your bookmarks set up, and pick a few quality zones. It's like fishing .. Some days, you get not much, other days, you hit the mother load. Last night, I made 40 mil isk in under 2 hours running ninja salvage.

 

[Thuleman]

I was invited to a corp and flown around on an 'exploration' op, killed a few frigs/cruisers, then they grabbed all the cargo (looking for faction loot) and left the wrecks sitting there--WTF? I could pull in >1M in a Merlin on a level 2 mission, but they just ignored the wrecks entirely. I don't even think wrecks are flagged so a decent salvage setup seems like it could be highly lucrative, even if you don't kill the rats yourself, because I don't think wrecks are flagged. Am I right?

It's true that wrecks are not claimed.
Wrecks only receive ownership once they are being salvaged. So as soon as you put a salvager on it, the wreck is yours. However, NOT the loot within the wreck, that loot still belongs to whomever created the wreck. You can salvage it without getting into trouble.

It's also true that once you have a salvager on it, and someone else engages the wreck, they will be concorded (in Empire).

It is bad form to salvage the wrecks someone else created unless they are indeed abandoned. However, it's perfectly legal within the game mechanics to do so, though that doesn't make it right, imho anyway.

However, many players (myself included) don't bother to salvage the wrecks, it's just not worth my time to do so. If I run missions I do it for LP. I want to rake in 20k LP per hour, I don't care about the loot or the salvage, all I care about is to finish the mission as quickly as possible (often not even killing all NPCs).

 

[SAW]

I can understand where your coming from Frostex. Your having the "and then what" reaction to the game. i.e. I spend this time to do this, then do that, then that over there to do this over here....all for what though? Ive been in that position in other games as well. You find yourself logging in to a game out of habbit rather than to have fun. After awhile, it just seems to be pointless to do. WoW had this effect on me. Whats the point I kept asking myself, why even bother. For that matter, all "other" MMO's seemed to have that effect on me after time. Level up, get a new spell, buy a new weapon with high stats then go back out and do it all over again. It became truly mindless and boring esp. when you realize that by the time you leveled up enough to use that new weapon, you had to fight things which were in a higher level plain to get anything usefull from it, which in the end, it was the same ol grind as fighting things in your previous level, it just takes a bit longer.

When looking at the "grand scheme of things" in games, one can easily put this type of thinking into just about any game out there. In the end, whats the point. Racing games....you race to the end and try to finish first, no matter how far along in the game you go, its the same. Fallout 3, though very interesting storyline, once you shot one Mutant, youve shot them all. Wheres the challenge? Why bother?

In all other MMO's, sure there is PvP action, but, to a point, everyone has the same basic ability, it becomes a matter of who can hit the hotkey quicker and get that spell off first. Then you die but there is no real consequence to your failure to beat the other person other than having to make the trip back to your corpse which to me is MEH. So you killed me, big deal. Same for FPS games....so you killed me, big deal, I'll just respawn and shoot you back, no big deal. My 5 yr old can do that.

EVE - Its a whole different ballgame altogether. It can all be said with one word, as mentioned before, Consequences. Because of that, it creates a challenge. Its not all mindless key pushing. The scale of the game itself is extreme too, as "space" ought to be.

The "FUN" comes from not knowing whats going to happen. Not knowing what your going to find. Not knowing whats at the end of that wormhole, or for that matter, whats inside that wormhole. Do you warp to 0m or play it safe and warp to 10km, but then, some ships have extremely long range, is 10km going to be "safe" enough. You just DO NOT KNOW. The "not knowing" is FUN. Not knowing if your going to loose your ship in a battle. THAT is FUN. Working your ass off to afford that ship that you "might" loose. THAT IS TOTAL FUN!!!! It may be annoying at times, but that annoyance is also part of the fun of the game because your actions or lack of is what got you killed. That is the challenge, THAT is the fun. In all honesty though, if you are working your ass off to afford a ship, then you are doing something wrong, which in turn, to me, is also FUN cause you have to THINK about what it is your doing or not doing. Its not mindless key pushing. THAT is the essence of this game and to me, totally worth the $15 bucks a month.

 

[SAW]

Hmmm, it appears all our EVE talk has sparked much more interest in the game than before. Ive seen 2 banner ads so far here at the [H] that I have never seen before. One of them being an "ads by Google" for game ISK. I dont ever want to see that banner again. Lets keep the game clean fellas, DO NOT support that by clicking on it.

 

[Thuleman]

Ohhh, discussion about ISK sellers and by extension macro miners (and macro ratters too I suppose).

There are a bunch of people who by ISK from ISK sellers (against the EULA) and then use that ISK to by Game Time Cards (GTC). The idea is that you can by the ~325mil needed for a 30-day GTC for a lot less than the $15 the GTC actually costs.

Of course that's against the rules, and CCP will eventually ban you if you keep doing it. However, when busted they will at first remove the amount of ISK you bought from your character, often resulting in your character having a negative wallet balance. A negative wallet balance is a serious problem as there are a lot of things you can't do (i.e. sell on the market, update your clone, etc.).

CCP also overreacts some on this issue. For example, I was recently selling a character for ISK (which is supported by CCP), and I came across a few stories where someone sold a character, received the ISK from the buyer, then CCP reversed the transaction but the reversal was flawed in such a way that the seller received the sold character back, AND the seller had a negative wallet balance equal the amount of the ISK received. This then took time and petition escalation to sort out (basically a lot of hassle).

However, I for one have no problem with macro ice product and low end mineral miners. Many wars in EVE wouldn't be possible if it weren't for their efforts, especially when considering the demand for LO and isotopes. Macro miners provide the market with inexpensive minerals, and most all legit players cba to mine that stuff anyway. The few who do will (and do) have to find something else to do.

CCP isn't interested in banning macro miners or ISK sellers. Both are good for the game from where CCP is looking. Both pay for accounts, and both provide services which are wanted by other players who pay for accounts, who may not continue to play the game (pay for the game) if those services were no longer available. Case and point is that I gather from the EVE-O forums that one doesn't get an outright ban for buying ISK.

Naturally one has to consider the consequences, my toons are in the 50+mil SP range. There's nothing I would do to even risk a ban, because it took me years to get where I am at now SP wise and I wouldn't want to lose that.

Having said that, many large alliance activities were and are being funded by buying "illegal" ISK with what appears to be very little consequences.

 

[Atech]

Hmmm, it appears all our EVE talk has sparked much more interest in the game than before. Ive seen 2 banner ads so far here at the [H] that I have never seen before. One of them being an "ads by Google" for game ISK. I dont ever want to see that banner again. Lets keep the game clean fellas, DO NOT support that by clicking on it.

Buying ISK really dosn't help you...just look a "Siigari something"...buying ISK to buy 2 T3 ships...and loosing them in a matter of days

 

[SAW]

Welp.....I just found my first wormhole from probing VERY NEAT stuff on the other side. Found my very own Veldspar, Scorsdite roids to mine. Had the place all to myself.

So, I finally got to try out my idea from a few posts earlier, about mining with my Tristan and unloading to a HUGE container. It took 39min to fill it, but it worked flawlessly. I was able to mine nonstop, as I had positioned the container just outside of 5000m from the Veldspar asteroid and positioned my ship just under 1500m from from the container. As it filled, I just moved cargo from my Tristan to the container so my mining laser went nonstop till I filled it up.

Once I filled it, I warped back to the station I was at, grabbed my Iteron with 2 expanded cargo holds mods, warped back thru the wormhole to the container, picked up my Veldspar, then headed back again to reprocess. Total time was about 45min and I now have approximately 150k units of Tritanium.

During all this time sitting there, (I can understand why people play in windowed mode, heh. Surf the net while ya mine) I was browsing the different ships again trying to see which ones I could load up with more than 2 mining lasers (which I had on the Tristan). Turns out, I can use a Catalyst, which is a destroyer (if I remember correctly) to mine more and faster. Buying a mining barge is outrageously expensive and has less than half the turret allocations as the Destroyer does. I can equip up to 8 turret mods with the catalyst, but the catalyst costs about 650k ISK, which is somewhat expensive...however...I figure I can equip probably 4-6 mining lasers (if the capacity will let me) which means I can mine 4 - 6 times quicker cutting that 45 min down to at least 10min or less.

150k Tritainium plus some Pyerite (which i will mine tomorrow) will allow me to build the item I plan on selling, which seems to sell quite quickly and very profitable too, esp since I wont be buying the materials to build it. I figure the 650k for the Catalyst will pay for itself within a week or less

Note to self though....dont play and drink beer.....makes me too tired to play, lol. I sure could go for a doughnut right now

 

[SAW]

Hey.....it just occurred to me....Shouldnt the plantets and moons be orbiting the stars in this game? Everytime I log in, they are all in the same locations. Would add an element to the game to have to hunt down the planet you were at the day before, ehh? But I guess that would also take quite a bit of time to assign orbits to ALL the planets and moons. Hell, 7500 systems, not counting the wormhole space I would assume there are 100k+ moons and planets. Talk about a full time job, heh. Would be neat though.

 

[Mad Cat]

Macros are bad for the game. Sure, everything theoretically costs less, but there is a high price for cheap goods. Say an alliance has 10-20 ice miners set up macro mining 23/7 (in a noob corp of course) and they then sell the goods on the market. Yes, the goods for the region are cheaper. However, the alliance now gains an unfair advantage in cash flow when fighting other alliances. Also, it makes it difficult for people who actually DO want to mine to compete and enjoy it.

As for the mining barges, get them. The procurer sucks, but the higher barges are good. The strip miners have a three minute cycle and you can only carry 1-3 of them. However, they bring in a LOT per cycle. I can fill a can in just under 25 minutes with my hulk, and my mining skills aren't even that great. The one thing that can come close to a hulk is a BS fitting with 8 mining lasers and a rack full of mining upgrades (both T2).

 

[Frostex]

Hey.....it just occurred to me....Shouldnt the plantets and moons be orbiting the stars in this game? Everytime I log in, they are all in the same locations. Would add an element to the game to have to hunt down the planet you were at the day before, ehh? But I guess that would also take quite a bit of time to assign orbits to ALL the planets and moons. Hell, 7500 systems, not counting the wormhole space I would assume there are 100k+ moons and planets. Talk about a full time job, heh. Would be neat though.

This is something that irked me a little, the general accuracy. The lack of planetary movement, the overuse of backdrops, all systems seem to have this bright interesting cloud which spirals around it which while looks nice just isn't that realistic to have so frequently.

Warping right through planets/moons/space stations and presumably stars in some areas is just daft as well, as well as drifting through other space craft.

Also the instancing of missions areas is a bit lame, you're lead to think that it's one large universe where anyone can go anywhere and to find it's instanced is a bit lame :/

 

[Thuleman]

I'm sorry I can't describe in real words what I think about you for that statement as it will get me banned on these forums for name calling. So all I have to say on the subject is that you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

I love you anyway.
Basically it doesn't matter what you think of me, all that matters in EVE terms is what CCP does. CCP does nothing compared to what they could be doing. They have the server, they have all transaction logs, they have the technology to easily and quickly find macro ratters and macro miners, as well as ISK sellers, and they have the EULA which says that they can deny service to anyone for any reason or no reason at all. Yet they don't do it. Big deal, they "pretend" ban a few accounts here and there once in a while, but those bannings have no impact on the macroers and ISK sellers.

It's of course a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. My opinion, which I base on observations of the game over the past few years and simple economics is that CCP doesn't gain anything from banning macroers, they lose when they do so.

Your angry $15/month you pay for your subscription are the same as my happy $15/month I pay. The only recourse you have as someone who isn't satisfied with the wide spread macroing and ISK selling is to quit the game, and that's something you won't do. So why the outrage?

EDIT: Since you seem to imply that I have nfc, even though I have shown the logic behind my statements, perhaps you will grace us with enlightenment and actually spell out why you think that I am wrong rather than to just stomp with your foot and say that I am. While you are at it, you may also want to explain what happened to you as a child that you now find enjoyment in inflicting misery upon others as written here:

It's part of the fun to ruin it for someone else ... Yes this is one of the many reason why I love EVE.