The New EVE: Apocrypha

oscrogo

Limp Gawd
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Nov 3, 2007
Messages
240
Realistically speaking, is this a game that can be played 1 or 2 hours (tops) a night and still be enjoyed? I have kids, job, wife, friends... etc.

So far It seems that you could. Skills can run while you're not logged in and you can complete missions in a half-hour or so, with some missions taking only 15 minutes (I haven't run a mission that's taken more than an hour to do).

The only issue I could see you running into is when you have to travel great distances; you can spend 2 hours traveling, but with autopilot you can leave and go cook dinner or something. (just make sure you're not going through low-sec space when you do leave the PC)
 

Version_3

2[H]4U
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Realistically speaking, is this a game that can be played 1 or 2 hours (tops) a night and still be enjoyed? I have kids, job, wife, friends... etc.

I have all that too, and I maybe play for 2 hours a night. I'm just starting though, less than 21 days in the game. I do some skill queuing, mine, missions, and trading all within that time. I assume as you get out into low/null-sec space, time spent will be greater as there are more things to do, I hear.
 

nubbin77

Limp Gawd
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Sep 9, 2005
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284
Sounds good. Kind of seems like the first month or so is all about learning and building up... So I guess I'd be able to make an assessment at that point whether it was worth our continued involvement. I really want this to be "my game".
 

oldpablo

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I'm a little restricted in my travels, as my map button only displays names - no dots/systems/nothing. I'm certain that its Windows 7, as her setup displays fine. I'm unable to plot a route/map manually to try to scoot out and find some ships to destroy. I figure its not a big deal while I'm on the trial. I've tried the ATI Beta WDDM 1.1 drivers for Windows 7 and the Vista 64 9.2 drivers - both do the same thing. I had the MAP issue in both the old client and new EVE client

If I have to, I'll put Vista 64 back on and reload the 9.2 Cats so I can start getting out and about :)

I'm on Windows 7 right now without issue, but with an Nvidia card if that helps.
 

nubbin77

Limp Gawd
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284
Ok I have what might be a real stupid question... but here goes. I plan to do the trial... but would that prevent me from getting the boxed version from Gamestop? The reason I ask is that the features (listed below) seem to offer stuff not available if I just subscribe month to month after the trial is up. Is that really the case? Its hard to tell - what's the most cost effective solution - is any of the crap in this listing below important enough to skip the trial and just get this box? Most importantly what was concerning me is the quick start stuff - but if that's all just fluff, do I really care? It sort of looks too me like this is basically $40 for 2 months - why would I do that if the month to month subscription is $15? What the heck am I missing - Why would I spend $10 more for this?


Game Client: The retail box will include all nine previously released expansions plus the forthcoming tenth expansion entitled EVE Online: Apocrypha which introduces numerous new features including unstable wormholes to explore and modular ships to build to each pilot’s specifications and needs.
Free Upgrades: All subsequent expansions will be free of charge to all subscribers, continuing CCP’s commitment to offer free updates and expansions to its subscribers at regular intervals.
60 Day Game Time: Breaking with tradition, the EVE Online box will include 60 days of free game time instead of just 30 days offered for most MMOGs.
Extending Subscription or convert to PLEX: The included game time may alternatively be used to extend an existing subscription or be split into two 30-day codes known as “Pilot License Extensions” (PLEX) that can be sold to other players through the in-game market for in-game currency.
Instant War Access: This is a certificate that is issued when a new account is activated and allows rapid access to organized combat (through increased standings) helping new players get quickly into the action.
Exclusive Career Guide: Accessed via the website (allowing for dynamic updates) the guide includes insider tips and tricks to help players get rapidly into the full experience.
VIP Pass: This is a card packaged in the box that allows the buyer to invite a friend, then get an additional 30 days of free game time when that friend subscribes to the game.
Exclusive In-Game Ship: An exclusive new ship, the Interbus Shuttle, will allow players to fly in style with an increased cargohold over other shuttle models in order to ferry those extra crucial items at high speeds.
 

oldpablo

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That's all marketing crap, it's just one game and expansions are always free. Doesn't matter where you get it from. I'd just get the 21 day trial off steam personally. Why buy the box if you don't know if you like it. The "extras" just seem to be essentially trinkets.
 

HammerAZ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
245
I'm on Windows 7 right now without issue, but with an Nvidia card if that helps.

She's on Vista 64SP1 with an X2 and the 9.2's and hers looks great. Mine...display nightmare. I'd rather not remove 7, as I rather like it as a whole, but its just a matter of what I can do without the most :)
 

Version_3

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That's all marketing crap, it's just one game and expansions are always free. Doesn't matter where you get it from. I'd just get the 21 day trial off steam personally. Why buy the box if you don't know if you like it. The "extras" just seem to be essentially trinkets.

How quick did Steam update with Apocrypha? The reason I didn't go with the Steam version was because of not wanting to wait on the update to be pushed.
 

oldpablo

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How quick did Steam update with Apocrypha? The reason I didn't go with the Steam version was because of not wanting to wait on the update to be pushed.

Well that depends on what you mean by update. If you don't have it at all, you download the full client which is probably 1.5-2GB. Obviously a disk install is quicker but you are also paying more for the game which is odd if you just want the trial. :p
 

MorgothPl

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Got a question about RP elements. I usually play MMO on RP-PvE servers, as not only I find most mature people there, but I like to RP with people :). SO is there such chance to do in Eve? Or it's just a "wtfpwn" game...

THat brings other question. I'm one you the hardcore PVPers call "Carebear". I like to enojoy the world, kill few monsters, RP with others, and not be a member of gank/grief group and so on. Is Eve also for me, or should I stay away from it?
 

Thuleman

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Carebear is a name that is given to you by people who realize that you do not play the game the way they want you to play it. EVE is also for you, you just need to stay away from the Something Aweful crowd and their cohorts. Make no mistake, the majority of EVE players plays the game to ruin someone elses day, their enjoyment of the game relies on the misery of others.

However, you still can successfully avoid those type of individuals for the most part. There is a very strong role-playing contingent in EVE, and they are very very serious about RPing. Maybe someone else has some better insight in this as I am not a roleplayer, but for example the CVA alliance is all roleplay as far as I know.
 

SAW

[H]ard|Gawd
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Asteroids????

I was given a mission to mine some Veldspar from an asteroid, but every Asteroid field I went to, all I could find was Scorsdite. I ended up buying the Veldspar from the market so I could complete the mission within its time frame.

Question 1.) When I look at all the Asteroid fields on the map, how do I know which one has what Im looking for?

Question 2.) When I go to an Asteroid field, I cant hardly see anything unless someone else happens to be mining in that area and I see their lasers. <---If not for that, I wouldnt ever see the asteroids. How do I make them more visable? Or am I doing something wrong?
 

lathode

[H]ard|Gawd
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Just started playing today. Where did my time go!?!? Something is causing my asteroids to flicker white, not sure if it's cuz of Windows 7, or a setting conflict.
 

WarriorX

2[H]4U
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Asteroids????

I was given a mission to mine some Veldspar from an asteroid, but every Asteroid field I went to, all I could find was Scorsdite. I ended up buying the Veldspar from the market so I could complete the mission within its time frame.

Question 1.) When I look at all the Asteroid fields on the map, how do I know which one has what Im looking for?

Question 2.) When I go to an Asteroid field, I cant hardly see anything unless someone else happens to be mining in that area and I see their lasers. <---If not for that, I wouldnt ever see the asteroids. How do I make them more visable? Or am I doing something wrong?

Create an overview setting that allows asteroids to show up. As for them not showing up, it depends on the distance from the asteroid. At a certain distance they will disappear form visual sight.
Also the belts in empire are pretty much stripped so they might be really small or not even there.
 

SAW

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Create an overview setting that allows asteroids to show up. As for them not showing up, it depends on the distance from the asteroid. At a certain distance they will disappear form visual sight.
Also the belts in empire are pretty much stripped so they might be really small or not even there.

I had heard this the other day too.....that the 'roids (lol) get stripped...but I also heard that they respawn after the days shutdown.

"Create an overview setting?" Either I missed this part in the tutorial or I havent gotten that far yet.

Oooppps..did ya hear that? My confusion capacitor just overloaded. :D
 

Redshirt #24

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Don't feel bad. Barely two hours into the game and I got blown up on an NPC mission to take out a research facility (with a couple of groups of ships around it). Totally should have gone mining in my starting area (Gallente) instead...

EDIT: mining, or shopping for stuff for my piddly little ship and skills, or stuffing more crap into the training queue...
 

Direwolf20

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I had heard this the other day too.....that the 'roids (lol) get stripped...but I also heard that they respawn after the days shutdown.

"Create an overview setting?" Either I missed this part in the tutorial or I havent gotten that far yet.

Oooppps..did ya hear that? My confusion capacitor just overloaded. :D

Overview settings are complicated at first, but useful. That thing on the right side of your screen that shows the things near you, thats your Overview. It's most likely what you are using to select things. However, it doesn't always show everything near you.

You can add/remove certain types of things (asteroids, ships, etc) so that the list is more or less cluttered. There should be a mining tab by default setup, make sure thats the one highlighted.

If you click on the little triangle at the top of this list (I forget the wording, not ingame atm) theres an overview settings option somewhere. Go in there, and find the list of things to show. One of them should be asteroids, and make sure Veldspar is checked off. This way it'll show up on your overview.

Failing that, you can find a veldspar asteroid in space (or any object), and right click on it. Most objects will have an option 'Add <Name> to overview'.

You can save your settings, and load them up. You can also have up to 5 different tabs with all different settings.

Veldspar is the most common asteroid, so if you aren't finding any in your current system, you might need to go through a stargate and check the next system over.
 

HammerAZ

Limp Gawd
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Mar 12, 2009
Messages
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Just started playing today. Where did my time go!?!? Something is causing my asteroids to flicker white, not sure if it's cuz of Windows 7, or a setting conflict.

I've had the same white asteroid flicker with Windows7. Vista 64 SP1 does not exhibit this same behavior.
 

Thuleman

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Fun to see your slots..., so propulsion mods in the mid slots don't stack. Meaning there's no point in having two Microwarp drives or two Afterburners. Also, it's customary to have either a Microwarp drive, or an Afterburner, with the Afterburner having very limited application. The only times you may want an Afterburner is in a CovOps ship, or when running missions as you can't use a Microwarp drive in Deadspace (most mission space).

In all other cases you'd want a Microwarp drive (PvP) or no propulsion mod in the mids at all (PvE). By removing two of the propulsion mods in the mids you can likely free up some CPU so that you don't need 3 co-processors in the low slots either.
 

HammerAZ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
245
Asteroids????

I was given a mission to mine some Veldspar from an asteroid, but every Asteroid field I went to, all I could find was Scorsdite. I ended up buying the Veldspar from the market so I could complete the mission within its time frame.

Question 1.) When I look at all the Asteroid fields on the map, how do I know which one has what Im looking for?

Question 2.) When I go to an Asteroid field, I cant hardly see anything unless someone else happens to be mining in that area and I see their lasers. <---If not for that, I wouldnt ever see the asteroids. How do I make them more visable? Or am I doing something wrong?

I've been playing out of a system that has 16 Asteroid belts. As mentioned earlier, find the little symbol in space that's the upside down triangle. You can right click it and choose "add to overview" - Then your overview will light up with all the asteroid belts in range.

I've had to fly to upwards of 5 different belts to find the ore I was after. Once there, drop the can, 3 Miner II lasers and use the Badger to haul it all in before the Orcas, Hulks, and Retrievers show up!

Having the GF play is really helpful, as she can just mine and offload to the Giant Secure Container, and I can float out with the Badger and empty the GSC into my cargohold. Unload and return, rinse and repeat.

We did that for a few hours making a few million. Then we decided to re-fit with PVP gear and float over to Ruvas II for some Agent missions. That was good times - being surrounded by 8 or 9 NPC's - trying to get targets on 3 or 4...missiles and counter missiles flying everywhere.

The funniest thing I saw was the Destroyer class she's flying - has 7 Turret slots...and she has 7 125mm Gatling Rails loaded all with Anti-matter charges. She gets 1 Lock a ship, and then lookd down and hits F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, (activating all guns in that order) then looks up and asks "Where's the ship?" I laughed, "I think it was obliterated at about F4....". She perks up, "Oh Good! Are there anymore to kill?"

I have to give it to her, what she lacks in gunnery skills, she just makes up for quantity.
 

Frostex

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Apr 29, 2008
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Picked up the 21 day demo off steam the other day and actually got really into it, I'm now sitting here at work fidgeting about trying not to think of my sexy Kestrel ship waiting for me in the hanger while my pilot upgrade is queued ready to learn :D

I tried this before I think back when Vista was in it's early days and the map didn't render correctly which made chosing destinations impossible so gave up pretty quickly. Much better now, working like a charm on Windows 7, looks great in 2560x1600 in fact after a few hours of playing at that res it makes the windows font/shapes look really fat and bloated, quite funny really.

It's a harsh learning curve, I'm a seasoned gamer and struggled with a bunch of things the first time around.
 

Ritorix

[H]ard|Gawd
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Messages
1,825
I have to say...EVE is a hard game to get back into after a few months of not playing. I havent played EVE like its 'serious business' in about a year and the political landscape really changes. My old corp is now in a different region and different alliance, I've got tons of assets stuck around the old Delve warzone that I've been gradually liquidating. What a pain to sort out, its not like just hopping in a new guild in WoW and continuing on as normal.

Probably the best times I had in EVE was going around in a huge 50+ ship fleet, fighting other huge fleets in a single decisive battle. A lot of people like the small-gang thing but something about the large battles really did it for me. Funny thing is now I've got another year's training tacked on...long skills that I didnt have to change often like battleship 5, T2 large guns, advanced weapon upgrades 5, etc, so if I did get back into fleet battles I could be a lot more useful than a year ago.

But yeah a year later and after disasters like Conan and WAR, EVE is still looking good. The skill queue is just awesome, I like how you can load 23 hours of skills, then load a really long multi-day skill at the end.

Anyone else training all the new T3 cruiser skills in anticipation of those becoming widely available?

(btw, working fine in windows 7 x64 here)
 

HammerAZ

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
245
Well...if you have it working like a champ in Windows7, maybe I'll take the time to rip and repave the drivers.

I wish I knew the term for the distortions I get. Its like a 3d object doesnt realize it has boundaries to be drawn in. Flickers really hard, and if I turn the camera away from the object, the distortion goes away.

Ship explosions are the same thing. The explosions are off too. On her machine, they're blue and have rocket flares shooting off in all directions. On mine, its just a distorted mess of "sheets of paper" color in odd directions.

The map is just names. No dots, no routes, nothing. I have to use her map to plot my routes ><
 

RagingSamster

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Messages
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;)
Fun to see your slots..., so propulsion mods in the mid slots don't stack. Meaning there's no point in having two Microwarp drives or two Afterburners. Also, it's customary to have either a Microwarp drive, or an Afterburner, with the Afterburner having very limited application. The only times you may want an Afterburner is in a CovOps ship, or when running missions as you can't use a Microwarp drive in Deadspace (most mission space).

In all other cases you'd want a Microwarp drive (PvP) or no propulsion mod in the mids at all (PvE). By removing two of the propulsion mods in the mids you can likely free up some CPU so that you don't need 3 co-processors in the low slots either.

ya, I'm a n00b, been playing about three weeks - but enjoying the heck out of the game

edit BTW, running Win7 and it's running great (even while WoW is running and I'm switching between the two)
 

HammerAZ

Limp Gawd
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Mar 12, 2009
Messages
245
I did the whole "Sweet, I'm going to load TWO afterburners, woot!!

Denied...

Learning Curve FTW! :)
 

RagingSamster

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I'm not sure if my current corp is going to keep me - I tend to throw out too many obscure star trek quotes. I just spent two days trying to land on Olo III - I made it after two tries. First one in my badger, I let the client run overnight and in the morning from 6000KM away stupidly chose "Warp to 0m" and boom back out to 11.7KM arrg! warped back to base, grabbed my Osprey and did the whole thing over. I have it documented, if anyone is interested.
 

WarriorX

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I've had to fly to upwards of 5 different belts to find the ore I was after. Once there, drop the can, 3 Miner II lasers and use the Badger to haul it all in before the Orcas, Hulks, and Retrievers show up!

The funniest thing I saw was the Destroyer class she's flying - has 7 Turret slots...and she has 7 125mm Gatling Rails loaded all with Anti-matter charges. She gets 1 Lock a ship, and then lookd down and hits F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, (activating all guns in that order) then looks up and asks "Where's the ship?" I laughed, "I think it was obliterated at about F4....". She perks up, "Oh Good! Are there anymore to kill?"

I have to give it to her, what she lacks in gunnery skills, she just makes up for quantity.

Be careful with using cans in Empire. Pirates like to do what is called Can Flipping. Basically they took the ore and put it back which makes the game think its theirs so when you retrieve it to return to the station, you will be PVP flagged for stealing. Its a legal tactic and it will get your destroyed unless you are prepared to fight back. I think if you show info on the can and it doesn't belong to you, dont touch it.

You can also weapon group so you when push f1 and it fires all guns at the same time. To do this when you are out in space, near the capacitor there is a arrow, click it and near the buttom it will say enter weapon group mode.
 

thisperishedmin

Limp Gawd
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
497
I really wanna give this demo a try but I'm afraid to sign over my time and 15/mo haha....I'd feel like i was ignoring the juicy goodness that is codwaw and sc mp too :(

what to do [H]!?
 

Thuleman

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Anyone else training all the new T3 cruiser skills in anticipation of those becoming widely available?
I did train them, but I feel that T3 is going to be a failure. While modular design as such is very cool, T3 pilots will be punished over and over. First they have to put up with materials which are difficult and tedious to obtain because as opposed to moon mining and reactions for T2 gear, most of the T3 stuff actually has to be obtained while playing rather than being AFK.

Now you have a fkn expensive T3 ship, and when you lose it you can lose as much as 5 days of training time as well. Granted, few folks will take the T3 skills to level 5, and the loss of 4 to 3 will only be one day or so, but still, it's just ill conceived.

Meanwhile the T2 BPO owners will continue to rake in billions and billions as T3, while perhaps intended, hasn't been implemented to take the wealth out of T2 production.


She gets 1 Lock a ship, and then lookd down and hits F1, F2, F3, F4, F5, F6, F7, (activating all guns in that order) then looks up

That's where a G15 (or similar keyboard) comes in handy, bind all those keys to one, and BOOM, big time alpha strike!

RagingSamster said:
I just spent two days trying to land on Olo III - I made it after two tries. First one in my badger, I let the client run overnight and in the morning from 6000KM away stupidly chose "Warp to 0m" and boom back out to 11.7KM arrg! warped back to base, grabbed my Osprey and did the whole thing over. I have it documented, if anyone is interested.

Ok, so in order to dock at a station, you can select DOCK either using the overview button, or from the right-click menu. If you are 6000km away, there's no point to "power" (meaning fly by normal non-warp means) to the station.

The lingo is:
power - normal flight
burn - use microwarp drive
warp - well ..., warp!
jump - activate the gate, go through the gate

Anyway, if you chose "warp to zero" on a station, then you will often "bounce". You collide with the station at high speed, since the station is stationary your ship will be hurled off into space. I have experienced bounces that put me over 80km out when retards put the cyno fields right at the station. Being 80km out in a carrier with low cap is not a good place to be.
 

Ritorix

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I really wanna give this demo a try but I'm afraid to sign over my time and 15/mo haha....I'd feel like i was ignoring the juicy goodness that is codwaw and sc mp too :(

what to do [H]!?

Theres the 21-day free trial on Steam. You are out of excuses!
 

chineseman

[H]ard|Gawd
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I've been thinking about picking up EVE but this game looks daunting. Is there a good website/resource that helps out new players?

One thing when it comes to MMOs and RPGs in general; is that I'm OCD about character creation. It bugs me to hell when I discover that I could've picked a better race or better allocated a point/skill that I end up making a new character. Then as I learn more about the game, I'll find out I messed something else up and I make another character, etc. By then I've done the leveling process so many times that I get sick of the game and never play again. I can't level up the characters I already have cause I'm still hung up about the little things I did wrong. :D

With EVE being such an immense game, I'd like to pick my race, stats, and ship correctly the first time so I can enjoy the rest of the game. I've read the official site and some other fansites but the information on character creation and it's long-term effects seem pretty vague. I'd really like a chart or an in-depth article that explains what play-style each race/ancestry is best suited for, exactly how many/few points I should have in each attribute, what kind of ship I should be using, etc.

If it makes any difference, I generally like to play long range, quick hitting, highly mobile/fast, evasive characters in MMOs/RPGs. Like I said though, I know nothing about this game and if any of what I've said is even applicable/relevant. I might have the totally wrong idea about the combat in this game and it's just one of those combat systems where both sides just stand still and trade blows and whoever has the better equipment wins.
 

Thuleman

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I might have the totally wrong idea about the combat in this game and it's just one of those combat systems where both sides just stand still and trade blows and whoever has the better equipment wins.

EVE fleet battles are a lot like that, except that all else being equal those who know more about how lag works tend to win more often.

I'll write more when I get off work, but there are no wrong choices in EVE. Some character selection choices can get you a little faster into some aspects of the game, but over time it all evens out, more or less anyway.
 

lathode

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After installing demo yesterday, playing first tutorial and the 10 part Molehill mission I'm kinda hooked. Got my 3rd ship to find out I can't fly it with my trial account because of a skill I can't learn. So I just ordered the retail copy from Newegg cuz I like owning a physical copy of something I buy. $37 from Newegg with 60 day time card, so basically $7 for retail package and a few extras.

edit: I had to disable bloom to fix my white flickering asteroid problem. Didn't like HDR+Bloom enabled at same time. All good though since i'm just running Win7 beta.

edit: Is there an [H] Corp?
 

oldpablo

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May 31, 2003
Messages
6,352
I've been thinking about picking up EVE but this game looks daunting. Is there a good website/resource that helps out new players?

One thing when it comes to MMOs and RPGs in general; is that I'm OCD about character creation. It bugs me to hell when I discover that I could've picked a better race or better allocated a point/skill that I end up making a new character. Then as I learn more about the game, I'll find out I messed something else up and I make another character, etc. By then I've done the leveling process so many times that I get sick of the game and never play again. I can't level up the characters I already have cause I'm still hung up about the little things I did wrong. :D

With EVE being such an immense game, I'd like to pick my race, stats, and ship correctly the first time so I can enjoy the rest of the game. I've read the official site and some other fansites but the information on character creation and it's long-term effects seem pretty vague. I'd really like a chart or an in-depth article that explains what play-style each race/ancestry is best suited for, exactly how many/few points I should have in each attribute, what kind of ship I should be using, etc.

If it makes any difference, I generally like to play long range, quick hitting, highly mobile/fast, evasive characters in MMOs/RPGs. Like I said though, I know nothing about this game and if any of what I've said is even applicable/relevant. I might have the totally wrong idea about the combat in this game and it's just one of those combat systems where both sides just stand still and trade blows and whoever has the better equipment wins.

Yeah the beauty of EVE is that any character can train anything, no being locked into an elf or orc kinda crap. What speeds or slows training is your attributes, and you can always just go fairly balanced with a bit higher on the important ones. There is also now the chance to modify your attributes once per year. Here is a character creation guide that's pretty in-depth:

http://www.eve-guides.com/chargen/charguide.php

Slight things may have changed but the concept he describes remains the same. The most important thing in EVE though is to never just start over. The one thing you cannot do is make up for lost time, and remaking your character just loses you time. My PVP guys has a lot of mining skills from back when I was first exploring the game that I just don't use anymore, but that's how it goes. Starting over to not have those skills would just put me back and lose a lot of time.

As for combat, it's ether fast paced or slow, you win by tactics or brute force, etc. It's more about knowing your limits, not being afraid to engage, etc. I have a friend that just attacked everyone he could and he died a lot in the beginning. But now he knows his limits, how to control the engagements, etc., and he's the best solo pilot I know. Don't be afraid to lose ships, that's how you learn. Too many people invest a ton of money into a ship and then are afraid to undock it being worried about losing it. Money doesn't necessarily make a good ship, I prefer disposable ships myself that I never worry about losing. Here's a video with an idea of how it goes from the alliance tournaments (commentary might help you):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSt8ADjULjY

You basically tell your ship what to do, you don't necessarily control it like you would with a joystick. But seconds do count and it does get adrenaline pumping.
 

Direwolf20

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Messages
2,467
I'll write more when I get off work, but there are no wrong choices in EVE. Some character selection choices can get you a little faster into some aspects of the game, but over time it all evens out, more or less anyway.

ESPECIALLY now that you can remap your starting attributes :).
 
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