The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High! @ [H]

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by Kyle_Bennett, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High!

    Is the RTX 2080 Ti FE priced too damn high, or is it not? What about the RTX 2080 FE card? Certainly RTX pricing has been a hot topic lately, but what if we adjusted for inflation and actually compared launch prices of NVIDIA video cards over the last 18 years or so? That is exactly what we have done, and laid it all out, so you can make up your own mind.

    If you like our content, please support HardOCP on Patreon.
     
  2. bpizzle1

    bpizzle1 2[H]4U

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    Too-Damn-High.jpg

    Yup. Too damn high, indeed. Your chart shows just how big of a joke their new price points are. I really feel like these cards are going to rot after the initial rush. I think Nvidia saw card prices during the mining craze and thought people would continue buying cards at those prices forever. Joke's on them!
     
  3. primetime

    primetime [H]ardness Supreme

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    would be super cool to throw in AMD cards....but yea that chart tells a good story . (Nvidia raking in nice margins this go round)
     
  4. polonyc2

    polonyc2 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    are these articles meant as appetizers for the official [H] review which is still being worked on?
     
  5. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal [H]ard|Gawd

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    I think its interesting that a lot of the pricing had to do with exactly which chip Nvidia decided to launch as their high end product of that era. There were years where we saw fluctuations in what tier of architecture got released as their high end gtx variant, due to whatever decision making Nvidia approved of at the time. We have cards that would have normally slotted in as mid-range being sold as the halo product, and on the opposite side of the spectrum, their best engineering of its day wearing the x80 moniker.

    The used market has also changed substantially. I always used to be forced to sell my last gen sli setup before a new refresh was announced or the value started to nose dive significantly. Due to lack of competition, or an otherwise slowed performance gain per dollar we currently see, older cards are holding value longer than ever. I've yet to see the global mining fire sale on videocards that visits me in my dreams at night.
     
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  6. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    Its even worse considering you can't find a RTX 2080 for under $900 and a RTX2080Ti for under $1300
     
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  7. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    Real-world in-game analysis is not done in a day.....so yeah. Just got done getting bullet proof 2080 OC numbers done too. Got a bit more testing to do this weekend on that. Brent is working on gameplay right now.
     
  8. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    They're just trying to make sure their halo card costs more than a halo iPhone.

    Yes, the price is high. But the chip is also ridiculously big, and the yield may be ridiculously low, so maybe it has to be.

    But this is not life-saving medicine. It's not an EpiPen.
    It's not even an apartment in San Fransisco.
    Nobody dies, hell nobody even suffers because they can't afford an RTX 2080 Ti.

    So it's priced just what it ought to be: whatever the hell price NVidia wants.
     
  9. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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  10. Dayaks

    Dayaks [H]ardness Supreme

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    I just bought a 2080ti FE an hour ago for $1200 - 120 bestbuy coupon = 1079.99....

    Nowinstock is your friend.
     
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  11. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    This is exactly my take on why Nvidia chose to price the 20 series the way they did.
     
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  12. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    Oops. my bad halo iPhone is $1500. NVidea needs to come out with an RTX Titan to compete.
     
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  13. Supercharged_Z06

    Supercharged_Z06 2[H]4U

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    If Nvidia comes out with an RTX Titan that offers a solid 30% performance increase over the 2080Ti for $1500, I'd bite.
     
  14. hesho

    hesho Limp Gawd

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    isn't this just nvidia trying to figure out how to maximize the milking of their customer?
     
  15. TroubleMagnet

    TroubleMagnet Gawd

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    No clue on how to add it to a graph, but I bet this has a LOT to do with what the competition (now just AMD) is doing for prices and how competative they are in the high end. AMD basically didn't even try for highest end cards last generation, at least based on 4K and VR perfomance.

    I might still get a 2080 Ti, but not until someone comes out with a good async 4K IPS (or OLED) monitor and/or good wireless VR headsets to hit. Latter might be the Vive Pro + wireless module but still waiting on [H]ard data.
     
  16. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    Yep...while riding the coattails of the mining craze that desensitized a lot of buyers to this kind of pricing in the face of no competition.
     
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  17. jiminator

    jiminator Capt Obvious

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    Priced to exploit the dataminers.... oops... the market crashed.

    sucks to be nvidia
     
  18. hesho

    hesho Limp Gawd

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    the thing is... even on this very forum, ppl are saying they ARE BUYING IT.... so clearly the milking has already happened.

    Its just nvidia testing the limits of their customer base right now.
     
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  19. Soulmetzger

    Soulmetzger [H]ard|Gawd

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    No sir, I don't like it.
     
  20. eclypse

    eclypse 2[H]4U

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    Yup I guessed the price of the new cards way back when durring when all the prices were flying high on the old card.. $1200!

    Glad I got 2 evga 1080ti ftw3. I'm good. :) see what happends a year or so from now.
     
  21. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    I think it has more to do with the fact that they lack competition.

    AMD still hasn't caught up with the 1080ti. This gives Nvidia absolutely no reason what so ever to launch a 2080 series at all, except for the fact that they have already sunk money into it in development.

    I'd expect Nvidia's pricing to continue to be very high until such time AMD has something that is at least close to being competitive at the high end.

    The last time we saw pricing this high with the 8800, I want to recall that ATi didn't have much to show then either.

    When you have no options at a certain performance level, they have the freedom to demand more for their product, and they do, because the sole pupose of any corporation is to maximize shareholder value.
     
  22. wareyore

    wareyore Limp Gawd

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    Great chart. Interesting to see it and remember how many of those cards I've owned. Flipped from 3dfx V5 5500 to the GF3 Ti 500.
     
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  23. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    QFT.
    That day is long off. I expect that, before that happens, NVidia will drop the price as a result of:
    1) demand dropping, and/or
    2) they shrink the die to the next process and lower their costs.​

    Remember, they're not trying to maximize profit per card, but total profit. You do that when sales*profit-per-card is maximized.
    Since gross profit per card (without considering the need to recover your investment) equals roughly price - cost, and demand is usually elastic (lower price => more sales), if your costs drop (from a die shrink for example), your maximum profit may be at a lower price point. And demand also changes over time, so after all the rich early-adopters all have their RTX 2080Ti, the price/demand curve may change, and again the maximum profit may be at a lower price point.

    So I think it's just a matter of time, regardless of what AMD and Intel do, before the prices drop.
     
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  24. pcgeekesq

    pcgeekesq [H]ard|Gawd

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    That's true (and legally required) of publicly held corporations.
    It's not true of privately held corporations like SpaceX (fortunately).
     
  25. Reality

    Reality [H]ard|Gawd

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    Nice, I went from a Geforce 2 MX to the GF4 ti4600
     
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  26. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    See my other post a few up from yours. :)
     
  27. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm actually indifferent at the moment.

    1080 Ti cards have been super expensive lately. So, I've been acclimated so to speak. I expected this and subsequently planned for it. I got out from under my 3rd 1080 Ti just as soon as I realized all of this was going to go down. And, here we are.

    I'm going to say that .... everyone with even a smidgen of tech smarts could not possible be surprised by the high entry point for nVidia's newest tech. nVidia releasing the 20xx for $799? Yeah ........ right. I did foolishly think it might possibly be $850 or $899.

    But the $1100 didn't surprise me at all. This is what the Titans have been coming out at, the one back in 2013 and the Titan from 2016. Then you have the $3000 Titan from 6 months ago. As far as 2080 Ti goes and thinking it might actually be a re-named Titan was the fact it was released now and not a year from now which is typically the case. Something was off and while I won't go as far as to say I was right, I will say, totally ... not ... surprised.

    The price seems obscene but I'm not going to sit around and bitch about it. And no I am not being condescending at all. I promise. Personally, I really just hate having to think on the subject all that much. I just want to pay for the damn card and enjoy it and never look back. That's still the plan. The older one gets, the less BS you put yourself through. You young guys have all the mental agility in the world to debate, debate some more, go to sleep and wake up ready to do it all over again. Not me. For some of us it's just easier to get it done and be done with it.

    Something else I want you guys to consider. This $1100 price point might just be a cleaver way to maintain indirect pressure / value on the current over-stocked situation with the 1080 Ti's. Apparently, they have a shit ton that didn't sell thru after crypto-currency caved in. It's entirely possible. nVidia knows that initial demand for the new tech would be high. I am sure they have very smart people on the job telling them this. So the logic being, the super nVidia fans will pay the $1100 dollars and during that entire process, say several weeks, we can at the same time sell thru on all the 1080 ti' we having laying around.

    Also, there is this $999 price I'm seeing all over for the 2080 Ti ... I mean, that seems like a save your ass price point to me. If things go side-ways or they sell thru on all those 1080 ti's and trust me, they have a ton. Our local Microcenter has a ton of 'em .. or both .. they can drop back to the $999 price point they already seem to have in place.

    I don't think this 2080 Ti pricing is over ... I think there is some BS in the mix and that we will soon find out.

    And I will be working hard to reset my 30 days at Microcenter in case I need to claim any game codes they give out or a massive price drop resulting in a price adjustment. When you price match and I should be able to do this ... they give you a brand new 30 day sales ticket.
     
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  28. theBrownLlama

    theBrownLlama Gawd

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    i recommend an additional column reflecting multiplier of monthly 'disposable income'
    everything seems to get more exp these days, and wage seems stagnant.
    i think it would be an interesting graph.
     
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  29. Nolan7689

    Nolan7689 Gawd

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    You can see right where AMD became competitive and forced prices down near 2010.

    The 280 dropped lower from the 8800 Ultra as a result of the somewhat competitive 3870(x2) and further dropped with the 285 after the 4870 was very competitive with the 280.

    And then Fermi (480) was hot and power hungry compared to the 5870 but the performance was there and kept going on to where we are now.
     
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  30. Imhotep

    Imhotep Gawd

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    Seriously , some of you need to stop defending this price point. Greed is the best description and how about the unsold last gen 300,000 units or whatever that # maybe. Due to you guess it more greed. This card is ok for 4K. Ray tracing not this gen not next gen.
    DLSS is a gimmick and as for no competition. I don't remember paying $1200 for the first 3DFX Voodoo card I bought. It is the fastest GPU, but it is not $1200 fast.
     
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  31. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    Looking at the graph, yeah, the price is outrageous. I still paid it, cause I want the cards early, but it's definitely not in line with the past.

    I think the cards will still sell, especially if they are resource constrained already it makes sense to price higher at first. And many people will now buy a 1080 Ti, so Nvidia still wins.

    Hopefully AMD has something cooking, there could be a real opportunity there if they can come through.
     
  32. DrezKill

    DrezKill Limp Gawd

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    I'm sorry I ever complained about $400 flagship cards. I would give anything to go back to that now. Reminds me of those Gamecube Component cables that Nintendo sold for $30 during the 6th-gen days and I laughed at their bullshit, except now those things go for $200+ on eBay. $320 for my 64MB GeForce 2 Pro wasn't so bad. $200 Radeon 9500 Pro served me damn well too (wasn't gonna pay the $400 or so for 9700 Pro). $350 for factory-overclocked GTX 970 that turned into about $215-$225 was a helluva bargain. I did NOT remember the 8800 Ultra launching at $850, good gawd. I remember when a friend paid about $600 for a 6800 Ultra and we thought he was insane. Good ol' GeForce 3 TI 500. Look at the sensible launch price on you. All while bringing us DirectX 8 support and programmable pixel shaders. Well let's see what 2019 brings.
     
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  33. tangoseal

    tangoseal [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah no .. not getting one... watercooled 1080ti is plenty of GPU
     
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  34. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    I remember buying an 8800GTS 512MB for $239.99 in 2008. That was a nice card.
     
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  35. Icon_Charlie

    Icon_Charlie [H]Lite

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    The Charts only show the MSRP of the video cards in question. It does not show the price gouging going on at this time period on the RTX cards and even the 10 series. I think it is far worse now than ever before.

    Good chart though.
     
  36. happymedium

    happymedium Gawd

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    If DSSL takes off in 6 months and we see 35% performance increases
    in AAA games ,will the prices still be awful?
    I would think not.
     
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  37. Ace123

    Ace123 Anal Rooter

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    All of these idiotic posts about people buying these cards and acting like it's normal or the price isnt a problem depress the shit out of me. I'm literally shaking my head lol
     
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  38. sirmonkey1985

    sirmonkey1985 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - July 2010

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    the one interesting thing with that graph is that where all the valleys are in price also happened to be periods in time where ATi/AMD were competitive, where as if you look at the 6800 ultra, 8800 ultra, 780ti and now rtx 2080ti releases they had pretty much no competition from ATi.
     
  39. bpizzle1

    bpizzle1 2[H]4U

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    If anything can save these cards it's DLSS. Unfortunately, there's nothing out to test it on right now, and we literally have no clue how widespread it will be.
     
  40. Kyle_Bennett

    Kyle_Bennett El Chingón Staff Member

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    I will agree with you on this. The high end crowd on 1440p/4K is not going to want to move to 1080p to get RT. Going to play in a window to see all that "high res" goodness? Then again, I do not truly know on perf, so I am just guessing. However, silky smooth AA without texture blurring would go a long way with that crowd.
     
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