The GeForce RTX 2080 Ti is Too Damn High! @ [H]

Discussion in 'nVidia Flavor' started by Kyle_Bennett, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Porter_

    Porter_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah the Best Buy cards are never available when you click the link, and the Amazon cards are always for preorder. Newegg is your best shot right now if you’re monitoring nowinstock.
     
  2. DahlKen

    DahlKen [H]Lite

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    The whole RTX release really isn't doing much for me. Will just have to keep the 1xxx's that are in use now and wait for the next gen to come along.
     
  3. TFchris

    TFchris [H]ard|Gawd

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    I wish they can just remove the Ray Tracing tech and release a GTX2080 / GTX2080TI for half the price.
     
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  4. Stoly

    Stoly [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think nvidia could have a Volta based alternative (basically turing sans RTX) depending on what AMD brings to the table and how it performs.
     
  5. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    The 2080ti is priced to sell 1080tis.

    I bet we see MSRP begin to creep toward sanity as all that unsold 10-series inventory finally leaves the retailer shelves.
     
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  6. loki1944

    loki1944 n00bie

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    LOL. Awesome.
     
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  7. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    In the end, the pricing doesn't matter if you can't find one for sale.


    Still no 2080 TI FE's in the Nvidia store.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  8. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    You can pretty much go to any store and get a 2080, ti's are bit harder to find tho, but seem to pop in and out of stock at my local Fry's.
     
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  9. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Official Forum Curmudgeon

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    Yeah, my "ti" autocorrected to "to" in my post above.
     
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  10. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    That's because nobody wants these. The only card worth owning is the Ti. The 2080 is too close to the 1080Ti and costs several hundred more.
     
  11. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    There are a bunch of 2080s available on Newegg now. Not sure the value is there, especially since no RT/DLSS games are out yet.

    In a few months, when there are games, maybe the comparison will differ. Or if you're itching to upgrade and want the latest, it can make sense (i.e. coming from an older gen like 980 Ti).
     
  12. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/...d-rtx-2080-ti-review-you-cant-polish-a-turing

    A nice summary of why the 2080 is a bad buy this gen.
     
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  13. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    kirbyrj Yeah, great article and I agree with most of the points, even though I disagree with the conclusion.

    If you want the latest and greatest, and believe ray tracing will be the future, I think it's still worthwhile. Of course, if you *already* have a 1080 Ti then there is no point for the 2080.

    But lots of people *don't* have a 1080 Ti (as the Steam stats show, it's less than 2%). And if you are building a new computer today or upgrading an older rig, it still is measurably better than the 1080 Ti.

    The main issue here is not the features or the performance, it's just the price (which I agree is aggressive, even for Nvidia). But if you can swing the cash, I still think it's not such a bad option.
     
  14. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    The reason that number is so low, is very few are willing to spend that kind of cash for a video card, heck Titan buyers are less then 1%. Most buyers are spending less then 500 bucks on a card and thus why the number for Ti is so low. Of course on a forum like this your going to see the numbers skew far more from reality. The sad part is that low adoption rate could end up dooming RTX features as developers will see no reason to invest the time for such a low install base.
     
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  15. kirbyrj

    kirbyrj Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?

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    If you're buying new, you might as well spend the extra $50 or so for a 2080, BUT a good 1080Ti can be had for $500-550 used. There's really nothing comparable in that price range as a new 1080 goes for $450+ and the Vega 64 is $500+ on sale (regular pricing higher). The 2080Ti is a beast, but the price is too high right now (and availability is poor...I probably would have impulse bought a 2080Ti if they were available). I can't say the same for the 2080 as my 1080Ti is comparable and I'd be spending $850 (after tax). Assuming I could net $500 after shipping/fees from my 1080Ti, I'm still looking at $350 for marginal performance gains. The only real upgrade for me is a 2080Ti.

    Are developers going to spend the resources to include features that 1% of the gamers use? It would be totally different if a $300 2060 was available that had 1070(Ti) levels of performance with DLSS/Ray Tracing. The old chicken and the egg scenario.
     
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  16. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    Yeah, you're right. Developers will probably be hesitant to spend too much effort on such a small portion of the market. We've seen this with things like SLI, 3D Vision, PhysX, Surround, etc. So history is on your side. However, I think with ray tracing, it's something game developers have always wanted and the performance was never there. So I think there will be (and already is) a lot of excitement from devs more than those other fringe proprietary Nvidia features. Also think about games that are earlier in development, that will be releasing in a year or 2 years from now, that will have a potentially much larger market.

    We also need to think about DLSS and how that can improve performance. If games start releasing with this, then the 2080 could have a leg up with serious performance wins over the 1080 Ti in those titles. If developers can gain 50% performance boost in their game, you better believe they will take it. From what I understand, this is not as complex as converting your render engine to ray tracing, so the cost benefit would probably make more sense.

    I wish Nvidia would have at least released a full RT+DLSS demo for consumers to try (and they have some, reviewers tried the Star Wars demo). Releasing the cards on the promise of new features without any games or even a demo was a poor choice.
     
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  17. Slade

    Slade 2[H]4U

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    I want some DLSS implementations in current games. extra fps count.
     
  18. VanGoghComplex

    VanGoghComplex [H]ard|Gawd

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    "Buy a RTX series graphics card, and get a free copy of EVERY GAME that currently supports ray-tracing!"

    It's an old joke at this point but I intend to keep telling it until it's no longer true.
     
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  19. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Just in case anyone missed noticing this... I was holding out hope that the fabled EVGA 2080Ti Black Edition would actually be it's touted 999.99 price.... Well, Happy Thanksgiving! Nope! It would seem the card has now climbed roughly 150 bucks in price, the original page had it listed at... 999...

    I might have to sit this generation out.

    https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2282-KR
     
  20. Porter_

    Porter_ [H]ardness Supreme

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    it's still listed on their site for $999: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=11G-P4-2281-KR
     
  21. Fixall

    Fixall [H]ard|Gawd

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    Kind of a kick in the nuts that Nvidia isn't offering this to the people who pre-ordered.
     
  22. Gideon

    Gideon [H]ard|Gawd

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    They will still go out and buy it again, Nvidia knows it and wont change unless their fans buying habits do.
     
  23. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Well, damn, there might actually be a digital Jesus out there... I will have to look closer at that link I pulled off their front page and see if it's bundled with the "Free Battlefield V" just for 150 bucks more. It's the same card AFAIK.

    Let's see if they don't correct the 999 page... I appreciate you digging up the other link BTW.
     
  24. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    I figured it out... Sort of... One is a model off by one digit and has the letters "XC" in it. Not sure that the 15 Mhz boost clock increase is worth 150 bucks tho... 10 dollars per 1 Mhz in boost overclock potential... that's just stupid...
     

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  25. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    15MHz?! Any card should be able to clock that.
     
  26. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, my thoughts exactly. That's the only difference between the cards as far as i can tell. 150 bucks for a 15 Mhz Boost Clock, otherwise the cards are utterly identical. EVGA seems to have 4-5 of these with the same HS and Fan solution and the differences range from 15 Mhz to 115 Mhz in Boost Clocks. The price hikes exponentially as they clock higher, for better binned silicon.

    The thing that always got me was, sure, we can OC the crap out of these cards to get more performance. However, I've been using a 4K TV since the 900 Series cards. 100 ish Mhz is going to give you what? 1-3 Fps? On water we might see 5+... Who gives a shit? 60 FPS on 4K is solid and these cards deliver 60-75 FPS in 4K on the most demanding titles. Why even bother pushing the cards?

    FYI - They are in stock at multiple outlets... I wonder if we will ever see the 999 model... I added one to my cart and then quickly shut my web browser. I love picking up bleeding edge tech but this price point and the potential for issues means the only card you really want is the one from Nvidia due to the blazing turn around on the RMA process. I was digging through the comments on other AIB board owners and some were on cards 4 & 5 already. Sweet Jesus... I had better hold off a little longer.
     
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  27. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    When do you guys think the prices of the 20 series will come back down to sensible levels? Crypto has been declining for the majority of the year and still is so my thoughts are that we may get a price cut relatively soon. Especially if they are selling poorly.
     
  28. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Well, I paid 799 for my FE 1080Ti.... I just paid 999 for a EVGA Black Edition 2080Ti. I was notified by EVGA they were in stock last night, I bought it promptly on the spot... Knowing full well of the failure rates and all.

    If you can get one for 999, thats a steal even if it's not stock over clocked like the FE cards. Since the cheapest I've seen them available was a marked up 1350, 999 is a bargain. I had no desire to pay 10 bucks a Mhz... I think there's a blowjob joke in there somewhere...

    At ten dollars a second, for a hundred seconds, you can have a possible fire hazard and / or non playable space invaders, possibly even insta hardware death and no post. Just about as bad as allowing someone you don't trust to give you a BJ... Lol.
     
  29. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    See it's only a "deal" because you're already adjusting your idea of what the price should be. In my eyes it won't be priced appropriately until it comes down to the 700-800 range. I'm not saying you shouldn't have bought it btw, if you're happy with that then it's all good. I should have been cleare on what I mean by sensible.
     
  30. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    The problem as I see it is that prices will never remain static. GDDR6 costs more, there were a series of articles about this some months ago. I expected this generation to cost more. In a perfect world I would like to see these video cards for what the 1080Ti sold for or less (and even that launch had Nvidia hiking their prices with the FE cards and not many complained). The problem is, we don't live in a perfect world and Nvidia has zero competition right now. That may change in 2020 if Intel releases a first gen heavy hitter (kinda doubt it, but you never know) and if AMD manages to release competitive or faster parts (highly doubt it, next gen on 7nm will still likely trail the 2080 series even if it gets close). For the time being however, there's one option for high performance graphics on the PC and that's Nvidia. Thus my choice to call it a "deal" or a bargain or whatever is certainly my personal feelings on adjusting what I am willing to pay for a video card. I call 999 much better than paying 1200-1400 and I likely get 99% of their performance.
     
  31. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Yeah but even if the costs are going up it's the magnitude that is nonsensical. It's nothing more than a crypto bubble and as you mentioned lack of competition price hike. Again I'm just wondering when most people on here think prices will decrease; not having a discussion for the 500th time on rationalizations/justifications as to why the price hike occurred.
     
  32. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    Like I said above, the cost will decrease once there is sufficient competition. If there is no sufficient competition, I would imagine that we will see the prices of these cards continue to climb. I'm single, and a cool grand is pretty brutal for me on my salary. However, I can still do that even though it hurts. Now, if these cards continue to climb beyond that with zero competition... I'm not likely to keep paying for them. I have my limits.
     
  33. LuxTerra

    LuxTerra Limp Gawd

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    Or we could use logic.

    Take the die size of the 1080Ti and 2080Ti. Figure out how much larger the 2080Ti is and multiply that by the 1080Tis MSRP. Go ahead, I'll wait.








    Ok, it's basically a linear price increase based on die size, which historically for semiconductors is an absolute steal given these massive dies and the probability of defects. Pricing above and beyond MSRP is the market demand being greater than supply...likely because it's a massive die and there will be lots of broken ones.

    NVIDIA does enough nonsense, we don't have to go creating more just because we don't like the price.
     
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  34. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Again I don't care about the damn die size, that's ridiculous but if you want to believe it that's fine. The question is when do you think the price drop occurs?
     
  35. Legendary Gamer

    Legendary Gamer Limp Gawd

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    So long as we are buying the cards.... Never. Regardless the technical reasons behind the cost. I don't disagree with you. You're right on all counts, the prices are insane... So, I must be as well paying a grand to buy into the testing process... Lol .
     
  36. LuxTerra

    LuxTerra Limp Gawd

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    Well, you can be irrational all you want, but a manufacturer is going to sell their product at the price the market will sustain. You do exactly the same whenever you sell your old stuff. The 2080Ti is obviously too much for you. Ferrari's are outside my car budget too, so I don't drive one. No one owes you a 2080Ti at whatever ridiculous price you want it for...at least no more than Ferrari owes me a car.

    The die size matters because it directly impacts (along with all the engineering and other costs) the minimum a manufacturer will be willing to create and sell a product for. At some point NVIDIA just doesn't bother to bring the card to market because they can't sell it. These dies are massive. They're up there with some of the largest dies ever made on this specific process and thus, yields won't be great and costs will be high.

    B*tch all you want, but reality doesn't care how much you complain.
     
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  37. Brahmzy

    Brahmzy [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well said!
     
  38. cybereality

    cybereality 2[H]4U

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    Also, if Nvidia has really been working on ray-tracing for 10 years, they might want a return on all that R&D.
     
  39. Furious_Styles

    Furious_Styles Gawd

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    Is it too much for me? Did I ever say nvidia owed me a card at the price I want? I don't think so.
     
  40. noko

    noko 2[H]4U

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    When cards start building up on the shelves gathering dust, AMD start selling more cards then Nvidia even with lesser performance. Other than that, RTX cards will have a premium price.

    The RTX 2070 is basically as fast as AMD's fastest Vega LC cards and much cheaper. Now considering that the Vega 64 is not that much slower than a Vega 64 LC but a hell a lot cheaper makes it a better buy. So already Nvidia for $/Performance matches what AMD has on the over $450 market except for some good sales on the Vega 64. Not much incentive there or competition to drive down the price. Other consideration is the whole eco system where AMD has a clear advantage in better quality monitors as in FreeSync versions compared to Gsync - which can make a huge improvement in game smoothness, no tearing.

    As time goes on, the extra features on the RTX cards will add more value for customers. As in my case and I am sure for many others they are not worth it for the money being ask for.