Switch 2 Reveal incomming

[1_rick]

Not sure what your looking for.

He's looking for everyone to not like what he doesn't like.

 

[GoldenTiger]

He's looking for everyone to not like what he doesn't like.

That, and he assumes everyone pirates and steals everything like he does...

 

[Aurelius]

The mental gymnastics required to make Switch emulation on Steam Deck a major threat to Nintendo are… elaborate.

Let’s just do some basic math.

Valve hasn’t shared definitive numbers for Steam Deck sales, but did say at the end of 2023 that it had sold “multiple millions” of devices. Good, but a tiny fraction of Nintendo’s Switch numbers.

Now, the number of Steam Deck owners who use Switch emulation is very likely to be a small subset of that group. And we can’t assume that entire subset will refuse to buy a Switch 2.

And while there are certainly more handheld gaming PCs on the market now, a similar portioning likely applies… and remember, those other handhelds might not be as popular as the Steam Deck.

In short, the threat from Switch emulation on handhelds would amount to a rounding error on Nintendo’s sales sheets. The company chases after emulators to protect its IP against more egregious abuses, not because it’s genuinely worried about its bottom line.

 

[Flogger23m]

The mental gymnastics required to make Switch emulation on Steam Deck a major threat to Nintendo are… elaborate.

Let’s just do some basic math.

Valve hasn’t shared definitive numbers for Steam Deck sales, but did say at the end of 2023 that it had sold “multiple millions” of devices. Good, but a tiny fraction of Nintendo’s Switch numbers.

Now, the number of Steam Deck owners who use Switch emulation is very likely to be a small subset of that group. And we can’t assume that entire subset will refuse to buy a Switch 2.

And while there are certainly more handheld gaming PCs on the market now, a similar portioning likely applies… and remember, those other handhelds might not be as popular as the Steam Deck.

In short, the threat from Switch emulation on handhelds would amount to a rounding error on Nintendo’s sales sheets. The company chases after emulators to protect its IP against more egregious abuses, not because it’s genuinely worried about its bottom line.

You also can't play online with emulators. At least, not with most of the players using legit games on Switch.

 

[DukenukemX]

As someone who has a switch purely for playing Mario Kart and Mario party when I bring drinking buddies or cute girls over,

Of all the things that didn't happen, that never happened the most.

I can handily say that hardware enthusiasts going full autistic on visual fidelity, emulation and Linux stability etc ARE NOT the target audience, nor do they represent even 1% of any kind of market compared to the addressable market Nintendo has access to.

Congratulations, you've perfectly summoned up who I am. Still not changing the fact that right now the Switch 2 offers less than the Steam Deck. The Asus Rog Ally is $450 off Amazon right now. Twice the storage of the Switch 2 with AMD Ryzen Z1 that can play many more games with your cute femboys.

Nintendo doesn't care if you buy a Deck or a PC or a Playstation.

They clearly do if they tried to shutdown two emulators.

Not sure why you believe a switch should do a bunch of other things. I mean but why? Cause you want it to?

Their competitors do. Playstation, Xbox, Steam Deck, Asus Rog Ally, and the list goes on.

The Playstation 2 is the best selling console of all time for about 6 more months.

The PS2 was also a DVD player.

Despite your assurance that the switch sucks cause it can't be used to watch netflix or run emulators or install software like it was a PC

I own a Switch and I think it was amazing for the time. Since the release of the Steam Deck and clones, I do not think so. Though, I do plan to mod a bunch of Switch's in the future just to add Android for Netflix and other features.

You want to emulate their hardware... they aren't fine with that.

Their compliance is no longer a factor.

Are you not basically saying if you could legally run nintendo games on your deck you would never buy a switch?

Would you?

I mean with that as your argument why would they release games on other platforms. They make money on the consoles as well. You are also 10x more likely to buy other Nintendo games once you have Nintendo hardware.

I do wonder how much money Nintendo would make selling their games on PC, Playstation, and Xbox? There's clearly a demand for this. As a consumer, would you be happy being locked into an ecosystem just because you bought a $400 console to play Zelda Twilight Breath of the Kingdom? That's the who point of the PC Master Race in that you're not locked into any ecosystem, which gives you the freedom to play what you want.

 

[KazeoHin]

Of all the things that didn't happen, that never happened the most.

Congratulations, you've perfectly summoned up who I am. Still not changing the fact that right now the Switch 2 offers less than the Steam Deck. The Asus Rog Ally is $450 off Amazon right now. Twice the storage of the Switch 2 with AMD Ryzen Z1 that can play many more games with your cute femboys.

They clearly do if they tried to shutdown two emulators.

Their competitors do. Playstation, Xbox, Steam Deck, Asus Rog Ally, and the list goes on.

The PS2 was also a DVD player.

I own a Switch and I think it was amazing for the time. Since the release of the Steam Deck and clones, I do not think so. Though, I do plan to mod a bunch of Switch's in the future just to add Android for Netflix and other features.

Their compliance is no longer a factor.

Would you?

I do wonder how much money Nintendo would make selling their games on PC, Playstation, and Xbox? There's clearly a demand for this. As a consumer, would you be happy being locked into an ecosystem just because you bought a $400 console to play Zelda Twilight Breath of the Kingdom? That's the who point of the PC Master Race in that you're not locked into any ecosystem, which gives you the freedom to play what you want.

Nintendo would lose money if they marketed to people like you.

And we've seen time and time again that closed ecosystems often herald the best experiences. I don't like it, but Nintendo, Apple, etc. provide great, consistent ecosystems, and other competitors only start opening up their ecosystems when they fail.

 

[emphy]

...
And we've seen time and time again that closed ecosystems often herald the best experiences

That would depend on one's definition of "best". Mine happens to not include my device or software telling me: "can't let you do that, dave".

Back when the original switch released, it was a unique device, so I was prepared to put up with it. Now, with a healthy market of deckalikes to choose from? The big N can shove it where the sunlight doesn't reach.

And that may be a huge problem for nintendo: the new switch is a specs upgrade, and the people most likely to care have alternatives now. The user who doesn't care as much about the visuals will be fine with their original switch for some time to come. Nintendo needs a little extra spark to get them to move, and the enthusiasts like me and DukenukemX could have been a part of that.

 

[Mchart]

That would depend on one's definition of "best". Mine happens to not include my device or software telling me: "can't let you do that, dave".

Back when the original switch released, it was a unique device, so I was prepared to put up with it. Now, with a healthy market of deckalikes to choose from? The big N can shove it where the sunlight doesn't reach.

And that may be a huge problem for nintendo: the new switch is a specs upgrade, and the people most likely to care have alternatives now. The user who doesn't care as much about the visuals will be fine with their original switch for some time to come. Nintendo needs a little extra spark to get them to move, and the enthusiasts like me and DukenukemX could have been a part of that.

Part of what? You don’t seem to care about Nintendo exclusives. Why would Nintendo waste time on you? The switch 2 will do just fine for a singular very obvious reason.

 

[emphy]

Part of what? You don’t seem to care about Nintendo exclusives. Why would Nintendo waste time on you? The switch 2 will do just fine for a singular very obvious reason.

Why did nintendo, back in the day, bother with showing skyrim in the switch reveal?

To court the hardware enthusiasts, that is why. Because they damn well knew that the one or two exclusives and half an indie they offered in the first few months after release were woefully insufficient to attract the numbers they needed to kickstart the system's popularity.

 

[Mchart]

Why did nintendo, back in the day, bother with showing skyrim in the switch reveal?

To court the hardware enthusiasts, that is why. Because they damn well knew that the one or two exclusives and half an indie they offered in the first few months after release were woefully insufficient to attract the numbers they needed to kickstart the system's popularity.

That was 8 years ago. This is now. Everyone back then thought making a sole portable console was stupid. They were wrong, and the switch is a massive success in every market.

 

[SeymourGore]

I love my PC handhelds, but I have a hard time believing they can push Nintendo out or really threaten their dominance (though I'm curious to see how SteamOS fares with retail availability).

I think the only handheld that could really cut into Nintendos dominance would be a Sony handheld. And we likely won't see that until closer or after the PS6 (based on rumors.)

 

[1_rick]

Still not changing the fact that right now the Switch 2 offers less than the Steam Deck.

Unless you want to, say, play Pokemon online. Scarlet/Violet sold 24 million copies by last September.

 

[Mchart]

I love my PC handhelds, but I have a hard time believing they can push Nintendo out or really threaten their dominance (though I'm curious to see how SteamOS fares with retail availability).

I think the only handheld that could really cut into Nintendos dominance would be a Sony handheld. And we likely won't see that until closer or after the PS6 (based on rumors.)

The problem with a Sony or Xbox handheld is that you’ve got their own level of AAA title jank. The biggest benefit to Nintendo’s ecosystem is that their games just work. You can buy them, toss them in, and unless it’s a multiplayer game you don’t even need to update. They have a level of polish that no one else matches anymore, and that’s pretty critical for a handheld IMO. When I go to Japan and buy a game I pop that thing in and it works every time, and I don’t need to worry about installs, internet, signing in, etc.

 

[DukenukemX]

Nintendo would lose money if they marketed to people like you.

And we've seen time and time again that closed ecosystems often herald the best experiences. I don't like it, but Nintendo, Apple, etc. provide great, consistent ecosystems, and other competitors only start opening up their ecosystems when they fail.

Xbox is dying and Apple has been losing losing sales of hardware left and right. Nintendo is doing well this generation, but Nintendo hasn't always done well in previous generations. There's a reason why PS5, Xbox Series, and soon the Switch 2 will all be backwards compatible when most previous generation consoles weren't. The ecosystem is falling apart and needs backwards compatibility like PC's have.

Part of what? You don’t seem to care about Nintendo exclusives. Why would Nintendo waste time on you? The switch 2 will do just fine for a singular very obvious reason.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I like Nintendo exclusives, but I also think people should be able to play them without Nintendo hardware. Sony and Microsoft are porting their games to PC, so are they stupid for doing so?

That was 8 years ago. This is now. Everyone back then thought making a sole portable console was stupid. They were wrong, and the switch is a massive success in every market.

Nobody thought a sole portable console was a bad idea. It was brilliant and it sold like hot cakes for that reason. It was such a good idea that Valve copied them, and then so did many others. You guys are making up scenarios that never happened.

Unless you want to, say, play Pokemon online. Scarlet/Violet sold 24 million copies by last September.

What the hell is Pokemon online? Also you can play Scarlet and Violet on Steam Deck. I don't care if you think it's illegal. It's a thing.

View: https://youtu.be/d6ahKFW4pW4?si=fX8ztSyqxKdPkajO

The problem with a Sony or Xbox handheld is that you’ve got their own level of AAA title jank. The biggest benefit to Nintendo’s ecosystem is that their games just work. You can buy them, toss them in, and unless it’s a multiplayer game you don’t even need to update. They have a level of polish that no one else matches anymore, and that’s pretty critical for a handheld IMO. When I go to Japan and buy a game I pop that thing in and it works every time, and I don’t need to worry about installs, internet, signing in, etc.

You think Playstation and Xbox games don't work? What are you smoking because it must be good. Nintendo Switch's multiplayer is junk, which is why modding one and letting it get banned isn't an issue.

 

[Toboggan]

Again, Nintendo makes toys, not enthusiast hardware. It's that simple, if you want the toy, buy the Nintendo offering. Who cares what people argue too, if it makes you happy, get it. It's not like some other dude on the internet owning a different device makes your life any different whatsoever. Nothing wrong with any aged people playing with toys.

 

[Aurelius]

I think you're misunderstanding me. I like Nintendo exclusives, but I also think people should be able to play them without Nintendo hardware. Sony and Microsoft are porting their games to PC, so are they stupid for doing so?

Microsoft and Sony aren't making mistakes by doing so, but they also have different models and incentives.

Microsoft has multiple obvious motivations to drive game demand on PCs: Windows, Activision Blizzard, and of course Xbox Game Pass. Xbox hardware has been struggling for years, so it would take particularly huge games to make an Xbox-only release worthwhile.

Sony, meanwhile, sees PC releases as ways to scoop up extra revenue; that's why the titles usually come long after their PS5 versions. Helldivers 2 is a notable exception, but that's because it's an online-first game.

Nintendo has a strong hardware business tied to a specialized experience, with unique controls. It doesn't need PC sales to shore up its finances and might even see the PC diluting its experience (true or not, that's likely the perception). Could it expand its reach? Maybe, but there's just no pressure to do so.

 

[1_rick]

What the hell is Pokemon online?

I can't tell you what it encompases specifically for gen 9, but in gen 8, it was raids. in earlier gens, there was stuff like your castle or whatever it was called in sun/moon. I bet you can't do that on a steam deck.
Maybe that doesn't matter to you. A lot of legit players do.

 

[1_rick]

View attachment 705432

Not coincidentally, this is what Nintendo thinks of your opinion.

 

[DukenukemX]

Again, Nintendo makes toys, not enthusiast hardware. It's that simple, if you want the toy, buy the Nintendo offering. Who cares what people argue too, if it makes you happy, get it. It's not like some other dude on the internet owning a different device makes your life any different whatsoever. Nothing wrong with any aged people playing with toys.

Scuse me but what isn't a toy? The RTX 4090 is a toy. The Steam Deck is a toy. [H]ardForum is mostly about grown men talking about which toy plays their favorite games the best. Most people posting here are basically this.

Not coincidentally, this is what Nintendo thinks of your opinion.

Meanwhile what I think of Nintendo.

Nintendo has a strong hardware business tied to a specialized experience, with unique controls. It doesn't need PC sales to shore up its finances and might even see the PC diluting its experience (true or not, that's likely the perception). Could it expand its reach? Maybe, but there's just no pressure to do so.

What unique controls? The reason Nintendo needs to think about porting it's games is because there's clearly a demand for it. Between Playstation, Xbox, and Nintendo it's always Nintendo's consoles that get emulated fast, for a reason. No doubt the Switch 2 will get emulated fairly quickly. Sony knew this and that's why they started porting their games over to PC. Depending on the price of the Switch 2, I don't think it'll do well. $400 or more and any child looking to buy a Switch 2 will be told they already have a Switch at home. Adults who don't know about the available hardware would rather spend the money towards a PS5 because in most peoples heads the PS5 is still the best gaming machine ever. People who know will probably spend the money on a ROG Ally for the same price as a Switch 2. This isn't 2017 when Nintendo was the only portable handheld console manufacturer. Times have changed.

 

[GoldenTiger]

The RTX 4090 is a toy.

Not everyone only games with their computer. It's a Cuda work horse, and does a lot more than just game. Productivity is a huge allure to those cards.

What unique controls? The reason Nintendo needs to think about porting it's games is because there's clearly a demand for it.

Motion controls etc. Touchscreens were another new one for consoles.

No, they don't need to do anything in regards to porting their games. Their current ecosystem is highly profitable and tightly controlled for a great gameplay experience.

People who know will probably spend the money on a ROG Ally for the same price as a Switch 2.

It doesn't play Nintendo games, so how about no. No, pirating and emulating doesn't count, virtually no one outside of hard tech circles does that.

 

[emphy]

Their current ecosystem is highly profitable and tightly controlled for a great gameplay experience.

I'll not dispute the first half, but that second part is a fairy tale.

The gameplay experience is good despite the ecosysyem, not because of it.

 

[Toboggan]

Scuse me but what isn't a toy? The RTX 4090 is a toy. The Steam Deck is a toy. [H]ardForum is mostly about grown men talking about which toy plays their favorite games the best. Most people posting here are basically this.
View attachment 705604

Meanwhile what I think of Nintendo.
View attachment 705603

What unique controls? The reason Nintendo needs to think about porting it's games is because there's clearly a demand for it. Between Playstation, Xbox, and Nintendo it's always Nintendo's consoles that get emulated fast, for a reason. No doubt the Switch 2 will get emulated fairly quickly. Sony knew this and that's why they started porting their games over to PC. Depending on the price of the Switch 2, I don't think it'll do well. $400 or more and any child looking to buy a Switch 2 will be told they already have a Switch at home. Adults who don't know about the available hardware would rather spend the money towards a PS5 because in most peoples heads the PS5 is still the best gaming machine ever. People who know will probably spend the money on a ROG Ally for the same price as a Switch 2. This isn't 2017 when Nintendo was the only portable handheld console manufacturer. Times have changed.

I mean it's a toy as in it's designed to be sold to anyone 5 years and up. The other handhelds are more complex and designed to match a teenager's ability to tinker. Sure, you can call everything a toy, but I used the word toy because the interface is simple, locked down, and designed for pre-pubescent kids, thus making it usable by everyone. Also, if Nintendo started porting their games they wouldn't sell any hardware because of this exact reason.

 

[Domingo]

I'd love if Nintendo never sold another piece of hardware in my lifetime, but I know that's not going to happen any time soon. None of the games I play have ever benefitted from their proprietary gimmicks, so I don't need 'em. Nintendo hardware has done nothing but hold the games I like to play back...and they're all first-party titles, too. But my opinions don't line up with the 80's/90's nostalgia kids that would buy 3 multi-colored versions of a portable enema bag as long as Nintendo was selling it.

 

[Mode13]

Nintendo sux! Screw carrying an ultra convenient tablet sized handheld on a plane! We at [H] bring full sized desktops with 5090s!

Those great first party games like Zelda and Nintendo’s continued support for couch co-op and family party games are just gimmicks that nobody should ever buy, instead we should build 10 computers and have a LAN party with granny! Oh wait call of dooty doesn’t even support LAN.

Nobody should buy ‘tendo, even though millions of people love it with a passion, I say those people are stupid! My computer in my lonely dungeon of despair is faster and therefore betterest.

Ok but seriously I have a steam deck and can emulate switch but still prefer the switch with third party joy cons. Its way smaller, lighter, doesn't have a fan that sounds like a jet engine, and has a metric butt ton of great games. It’s hilarious how people hate on the switch.

The only thing wrong with Nintendo is the lawsuits against emulation devs. Switch system is awesome and was clearly the gateway drug for the development of steam deck and its alternatives. Chill out.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Nintendo sux! Screw carrying an ultra convenient tablet sized handheld on a plane! We at [H] bring full sized desktops with 5090s!

Those great first party games like Zelda and Nintendo’s continued support for couch co-op and family party games are just gimmicks that nobody should ever buy, instead we should build 10 computers and have a LAN party with granny! Oh wait call of dooty doesn’t even support LAN.

Nobody should buy ‘tendo, even though millions of people love it with a passion, I say those people are stupid! My computer in my lonely dungeon of despair is faster and therefore betterest.

Ok but seriously I have a steam deck and can emulate switch but still prefer the switch with third party joy cons. Its way smaller, lighter, doesn't have a fan that sounds like a jet engine, and has a metric butt ton of great games. It’s hilarious how people hate on the switch.

The only thing wrong with Nintendo is the lawsuits against emulation devs. Switch system is awesome and was clearly the gateway drug for the development of steam deck and its alternatives. Chill out.

These threads always devolve into the discussion that's being had. Just ignore it. There are some practices that I don't like from Nintendo but we're all in the minority here. Literally everyone I know with children either has a Switch or is going to buy a Switch for their kids. In spite of all the "evil" that Nintendo does and in spite of all the things they don't do that the hardcore techies like us would love to see them do, they're stupid successful and for good reason.

 

[Aurelius]

What unique controls? The reason Nintendo needs to think about porting it's games is because there's clearly a demand for it. Between Playstation, Xbox, and Nintendo it's always Nintendo's consoles that get emulated fast, for a reason. No doubt the Switch 2 will get emulated fairly quickly. Sony knew this and that's why they started porting their games over to PC. Depending on the price of the Switch 2, I don't think it'll do well. $400 or more and any child looking to buy a Switch 2 will be told they already have a Switch at home. Adults who don't know about the available hardware would rather spend the money towards a PS5 because in most peoples heads the PS5 is still the best gaming machine ever. People who know will probably spend the money on a ROG Ally for the same price as a Switch 2. This isn't 2017 when Nintendo was the only portable handheld console manufacturer. Times have changed.

Unique controls? Motion, detachable controllers that enable two-player local gaming, high-detail haptics... and if the rumors are right, the Switch 2 Joy-Cons might even have mouse-like functionality (gimmick, maybe, but you know there'll be some first-party games that use it).

I'm sure there's demand for Switch games on PC... but is there enough for Nintendo to justify the development, which would include major platform architecture changes and some lowest-common-denominator experience considerations (i.e. we might not use a Switch 2-specific feature because PC users won't get it)? That I'm not so sure about.

Also, you vastly overestimate how much companies care about emulation. Sony isn't porting PS5 games because a small group of people are running bootleg copies in emulators. They're doing it because the cost of porting from one x86 platform to another is low enough that this is a cheap way to maximize the revenue from developing a game. It gets considerably more expensive to convert a Switch-focused title.

As for adults' shopping preferences... Nintendo's own survey data has routinely showed that most Switch players (and buyers) are in their 20s or 30s. Clearly the under-18 demo is higher than it would be for Sony or Microsoft, but these are gamers who are fully aware of their options. And you can fantasize all you like, but they're not flocking in droves to the ROG Ally/Steam Deck/Legion Go because they hear the words "PC games." I just gave you data showing that even lifetime Steam Deck sales are tiny next to the Switch — ASUS, Acer, and Lenovo aren't going to significantly move the needle here.

 

[Aurelius]

These threads always devolve into the discussion that's being had. Just ignore it. There are some practices that I don't like from Nintendo but we're all in the minority here. Literally everyone I know with children either has a Switch or is going to buy a Switch for their kids. In spite of all the "evil" that Nintendo does and in spite of all the things they don't do that the hardcore techies like us would love to see them do, they're stupid successful and for good reason.

That's what Duke and others seem to forget. Nintendo not only isn't aiming at PC gaming enthusiasts, it would probably be foolish to do so. It's aiming at a broader public that's much more familiar with Mario than Counter-Strike or Elden Ring. It's courting gamers who may want to play on the bus, in bed, or even on the couch while someone else uses the TV. And of course, it's catering to parents that want a console they can trust their kids to use (while playing some games themselves after-hours).

I'm reminded of how some Android fans are baffled that the iPhone sells well, because surely everyone wants to sideload apps or run custom launchers, right? Right? What do you mean "no?" Sorry, folks, but some products succeed precisely because they're built for most people, not the hardcore crowd. Apple and Nintendo know this very well; I just wish the Dukes of this world knew it, too.

 

[LukeTbk]

They're doing it because the cost of porting from one x86 platform to another is low enough that this is a cheap way to maximize the revenue from developing a game. It gets considerably more expensive to convert a Switch-focused title.

because of how much power overhead you would have (in 2025) I am not so sure.

Would a switch game code, that heavy in ARM specific instruction, even an x86 switch will have had custom instruction and not PC like memory management, which could easily be a bigger deal than part of their C++ code that is classic ARM that you need to translate in x86 isa specific instruction. The Switch unlike a playstation as very PC like shaders (GLSL->SPIR-V) and use Vulkan, openGL or openGL ES (very pc like we can imagine they could some custom extension, but could be easier than going from Sony in that regard).

And unlike PS4-PS5 port (which when looking at the trackrecord, not that automatic to be well done), you can brute force your lack of optimization, will never have vram-ram issues with those assets and so on.

That could be what you mean, if you want the PC port to make any sense and be of any value it would require way more work because of how far you start with, texture, asset, voice. Xbox-PS5 game already made to scale and close enough that it is relatively easy to make a superior PC version of the game, Nintendo that could be a lot of work if you do not change how you make them for the switch (which would be a lot of work and money). And if you PC port is not superior in anyway, there is not that much of a point, specially with the Switch price point.

 

[ChadD]

What unique controls? The reason Nintendo needs to think about porting it's games is because there's clearly a demand for it. Between Playstation, Xbox, and Nintendo it's always Nintendo's consoles that get emulated fast, for a reason. No doubt the Switch 2 will get emulated fairly quickly. Sony knew this and that's why they started porting their games over to PC. Depending on the price of the Switch 2, I don't think it'll do well. $400 or more and any child looking to buy a Switch 2 will be told they already have a Switch at home. Adults who don't know about the available hardware would rather spend the money towards a PS5 because in most peoples heads the PS5 is still the best gaming machine ever. People who know will probably spend the money on a ROG Ally for the same price as a Switch 2. This isn't 2017 when Nintendo was the only portable handheld console manufacturer. Times have changed.

OF course their is demand to play Nintendo games. Selling 140 million switches wasn't an accident. Or as you put it before, it wasn't to watch Netflix or listen to music. 140 million switches have sold to play Nintendo first party games... as you have also pointed out non Nintendo switch games are a bit thin.
Nintendo hasn't been the only handheld manufacturer the entire time. Nintendo didn't invent a new category of device. The vast majority of switches sold have been in the last few years.
Valve launched the deck in Feb 2022. Current estimates are Valve has moved about 4 million decks life time. Nintendo sold 19 million switches in 2022, 18 million in 2023, 13-14 million in 2024 (they don't have a final total yet) So Nintendo moved 50 million units of a handheld that was already 5 years old since Valve started selling deck units, Valve has moved 4 million decks. I mean its not rocket science. Valve is not and was never competition to Nintendo. Switch 2 is probably going to sell 1/2 as well as the original switch. It is hard to follow up something like the switch. I don't think anyone has ever had a crazy popular console follow up do = numbers. Regardless Nintendo is probably going to move 20-30m switch 2 units in its first year.

Your arguments about emulation are silly. I mean did the Hackintosh put Apple out of business back in the day? Emulation itself is legal sure... copying the Nintendo firmware to skirt their anti copy is not. Valve right now is a little player with a quaint little 4 million or so unit sales. Make no doubt if Valve ever does manage to move 20-30m deck 2s or something... should emulation become a major thing, Nintendo will sue Valve directly, which they would prompetly settle and add firmware to their own hardware that would make emulation inoperable. Let the deck fly under the radar man, warez stuff if you want, Deck is a great unit... but we don't want to ruin it by making it a super popular super smooth emulation station for the masses.

 

[DukenukemX]

Not everyone only games with their computer. It's a Cuda work horse, and does a lot more than just game. Productivity is a huge allure to those cards.

People here with an RTX 4090 are most likely using it for gaming.

Motion controls etc. Touchscreens were another new one for consoles.

Is this unique to Nintendo? Motion controls wasn't well received which is why nobody is doing it, including Nintendo.

It doesn't play Nintendo games, so how about no. No, pirating and emulating doesn't count, virtually no one outside of hard tech circles does that.

It does play Nintendo games. Technically, it can play far more Nintendo games than the Nintendo Switch. My Nintendo Switch is actually setup to mostly play those old Nintendo games, and then some. It's called RetroArch. Actually, you can't play all the Nintendo games on that emulator on the Switch. That's one of the many reasons why I installed Android on it because some emulators have to be ran through Android. The Switch isn't powerful enough to run GameCube and Wii games. The ROG Ally can, and then some.

Unique controls? Motion, detachable controllers that enable two-player local gaming, high-detail haptics... and if the rumors are right, the Switch 2 Joy-Cons might even have mouse-like functionality (gimmick, maybe, but you know there'll be some first-party games that use it).

I don't see how any of this is relevant. Steam Deck has gyro inputs but who cares? Also, why are detachable controllers something you need for two player? Rumble support is nothing knew. Mouse support is interesting but I wonder how someone would use these? You would need a flat surface.

I'm sure there's demand for Switch games on PC... but is there enough for Nintendo to justify the development, which would include major platform architecture changes and some lowest-common-denominator experience considerations (i.e. we might not use a Switch 2-specific feature because PC users won't get it)? That I'm not so sure about.

When has games that adapted any of Nintendo's gimmicks has actually worked out well?

Also, you vastly overestimate how much companies care about emulation. Sony isn't porting PS5 games because a small group of people are running bootleg copies in emulators. They're doing it because the cost of porting from one x86 platform to another is low enough that this is a cheap way to maximize the revenue from developing a game. It gets considerably more expensive to convert a Switch-focused title.

There's probably more than one reason but I think it's mostly because Sony was sick and tired of losing free money to PC gamers who refuse to buy a Playstation consoles. It's part advertising since Playstation games usually take years to get ported over to PC. Fun fact, Spiderman 2 has been on PC for almost a year. Not officially of course.

And you can fantasize all you like, but they're not flocking in droves to the ROG Ally/Steam Deck/Legion Go because they hear the words "PC games."

Of course not. They'd flock to the Steam Deck/ROG Ally/Legion Go because they can play their favorite games on it, which may not necessarily be on the Switch 2.

I just gave you data showing that even lifetime Steam Deck sales are tiny next to the Switch — ASUS, Acer, and Lenovo aren't going to significantly move the needle here.

What data? I don't think there's any hard data on how many Steam Decks were sold. Best I could find is 3 million in 2023. Drop in the bucket compared to the Switch but that's not the point of this conversation. Steam has over 89,000 games published on their platform. The PC as a whole has over 100,000 games. The Switch has under 5000 games, and majority of them can work on PC.

 

[KazeoHin]

Hey, if you like your deck, more power to you! But comparing the Steam Deck to the Switch is like comparing a track converted 1985 corvette with a roll cage and 5-point harnesses to a brand new Toyota Camry.

Sure, the corvette will be faster around the track, more friendly to hobbyists, and to enthusiasts a MUCH more interesting car

But the Camry just works, can drive on the road, and doesn't look wierd and also has air conditioning, and just about every non-enthusiast on the planet would find it more comfortable and better to drive.


I can only imagine how quickly guests would roll their eyes if I promised them I'd set up Mario party to play 4-player split screen and I had to spend 45 minutes getting the emulator set up correctly and making sure the deck is outputing to the right resolution settings, making sure the controllers are connected and buttons are mapped for each controller, only to have it stutter and crash halfway through.

A real panty-wetter, that experience

 

[Mchart]

Hey, if you like your deck, more power to you! But comparing the Steam Deck to the Switch is like comparing a track converted 1985 corvette with a roll cage and 5-point harnesses to a brand new Toyota Camry.

Sure, the corvette will be faster around the track, more friendly to hobbyists, and to enthusiasts a MUCH more interesting car

But the Camry just works, can drive on the road, and doesn't look wierd and also has air conditioning, and just about every non-enthusiast on the planet would find it more comfortable and better to drive.


I can only imagine how quickly guests would roll their eyes if I promised them I'd set up Mario party to play 4-player split screen and I had to spend 45 minutes getting the emulator set up correctly and making sure the deck is outputing to the right resolution settings, making sure the controllers are connected and buttons are mapped for each controller, only to have it stutter and crash halfway through.

A real panty-wetter, that experience

I had a steam deck for a few months but I ended up dumping it. I really didn’t understand the draw over the switch OLED. Battery was worse, screen was worse, and every game that I could play on the deck that was “pc only” always was a jank experience or I couldn’t play it effectively mobile anyways. If the game was also on the switch like dead cells, etc, at that point the switch was just the better choice anyways. If I’m sitting at home I’d never touch the deck because I’d just jump on my PC, or use the switch to play a Nintendo exclusive on the tv. I suppose if you just want something that will run a bunch of warez the deck is great though.

 

[Aurelius]

I don't see how any of this is relevant. Steam Deck has gyro inputs but who cares? Also, why are detachable controllers something you need for two player? Rumble support is nothing knew. Mouse support is interesting but I wonder how someone would use these? You would need a flat surface.

I'll give you an example of why it's relevant. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe lets you use individual Joy-Cons as controllers. You can not only have local two-player without any extra hardware, you can connect multiple nearby Switches, each with two players. So you don't need to buy extra gamepads or hook up to a TV to get local multiplayer — you just start playing.

I'm curious to see how mouse-like functionality works, if it's real. Again, it might be one of those "oh, that's nice" features you try once and never use again... but I wouldn't rule things out until there's a tangible product.

When has games that adapted any of Nintendo's gimmicks has actually worked out well?

A handful. Nintendo makes extensive use of motion controls, and I mentioned one way detachable controllers can help. But I'd say the biggest challenge is more on the technical side. It's not just switching architectures, as was pointed out earlier. It's about making the assets look and sound as good as they can; and while the Switch 2 will likely close that gap considerably, we don't know by how much yet.

There's probably more than one reason but I think it's mostly because Sony was sick and tired of losing free money to PC gamers who refuse to buy a Playstation consoles. It's part advertising since Playstation games usually take years to get ported over to PC. Fun fact, Spiderman 2 has been on PC for almost a year. Not officially of course.

I think we can more or less agree; it's low-hanging fruit. The market for people getting PS5 leftovers isn't huge, but it's certainly large enough to justify a port that isn't going to take too much effort.

Of course not. They'd flock to the Steam Deck/ROG Ally/Legion Go because they can play their favorite games on it, which may not necessarily be on the Switch 2.

But I don't think the audience for that is as large as you do. They have to both want a portable gaming experience, insist on playing their favorite Windows games, and be willing to make the compromises required to play those games on a handheld (lower visual quality and frame rate, short battery life, lack of gamepad/touch optimization). That market clearly exists, as the Steam Deck shows, but it's not going to make Nintendo sweat in the slightest.

What data? I don't think there's any hard data on how many Steam Decks were sold. Best I could find is 3 million in 2023. Drop in the bucket compared to the Switch but that's not the point of this conversation. Steam has over 89,000 games published on their platform. The PC as a whole has over 100,000 games. The Switch has under 5000 games, and majority of them can work on PC.

Valve's "multiple millions" quote, which on top of what you've seen (I saw it too) tracks with the overall results.

And I'd say that you're forgetting a key reason why the Switch has sold so well, and the Switch 2 is likely to continue that trend. There may be fewer than 5,000 Switch games, but some of those are from Nintendo... and a bunch of them are blockbusters that make even some popular Steam games seem niche. Having over 89,000 Steam titles helps if there's a beloved indie game you want to play absolutely everywhere, but a lot of that is mostly forgettable material that won't do much to sell a handheld.

That's why Nintendo likely isn't going to worry much about handheld PCs, or porting Switch 2 games to Windows. The games that will actually drive Switch 2 sales will already be on the platform, and they'll be more compelling (sales wise, at least) than the vast majority of the Windows game library.

 

[Mchart]

I mean, I wish Nintendo would work with Apple to just allow Switch controllers to work natively on MacOS along with the fact that porting over wouldn't be world-ending since it's just ARM to ARM. That scenario is far more likely than Windows ports. However, we all know damn well Nintendo has absolutely zero reason to ever allow ports given how successful their hardware is. Maybe if the Switch was just as unsuccessful as the WiiU was that might be a reality, but we've got at least another 6-8 years now where the Switch 2 is going to dominate.

And again, as time moves on Nintendo has consistently proven they are one of the last AAA development studios that can put out consistently good and polished product. The latest Mario, Zelda, and Metroid games will always be top-notch and sell a truckload, which also means selling a Switch 2.

 

[Strange bird]

supposedly it won't be released until the fall

 

[Aurelius]

supposedly it won't be released until the fall

I'm not convinced of that yet. The hands-on experiences start in early April and wrap at the very start of June. It'd be odd to have that kind of confidence in public access to a console but not ship until months later.

 

[DukenukemX]

Hey, if you like your deck, more power to you!

I don't have a Deck but I do have a Switch. I wish I had a Deck but I refuse to pay full price for a Deck. Was hoping I could just find a broken Deck and fix it like I did with the Switch, but even the broken Decks are high in price. You can find broken Switch's for $100 easy.

I can only imagine how quickly guests would roll their eyes if I promised them I'd set up Mario party to play 4-player split screen and I had to spend 45 minutes getting the emulator set up correctly and making sure the deck is outputing to the right resolution settings, making sure the controllers are connected and buttons are mapped for each controller, only to have it stutter and crash halfway through.

A real panty-wetter, that experience

Did this but with wireless Xbox 360 controllers. You don't setup things after guests arrive, you do it before they arrive. Also the removable controllers used as a single controller does kinda suck.

I'm curious to see how mouse-like functionality works, if it's real. Again, it might be one of those "oh, that's nice" features you try once and never use again... but I wouldn't rule things out until there's a tangible product.

I like the idea. It's mimicking the superior setup that is the PC.

But I don't think the audience for that is as large as you do. They have to both want a portable gaming experience, insist on playing their favorite Windows games, and be willing to make the compromises required to play those games on a handheld (lower visual quality and frame rate, short battery life, lack of gamepad/touch optimization). That market clearly exists, as the Steam Deck shows, but it's not going to make Nintendo sweat in the slightest.

Assuming that reported number of Steam Deck's sold is correct then 3-4 million does suggest there's a demand for this. I know a few people who play World of Warcraft on a Steam Deck and one who plays it on a ROG Ally. Also keep in mind that Switch 2 probably still can't play some of the games the Steam Deck can do.

And I'd say that you're forgetting a key reason why the Switch has sold so well, and the Switch 2 is likely to continue that trend. There may be fewer than 5,000 Switch games, but some of those are from Nintendo... and a bunch of them are blockbusters that make even some popular Steam games seem niche. Having over 89,000 Steam titles helps if there's a beloved indie game you want to play absolutely everywhere, but a lot of that is mostly forgettable material that won't do much to sell a handheld.

I've played my fair share of Switch games, but on PC. My Switch is mostly a hand held portable emulator. I played Octopath Traveler which sucked. It was exclusive to Swtich but later ported to every platform but yea the game sucks. Played Mario Odyssey which wasn't bad but not as great as people made it out to be. It's essentially Mario 64 with much better graphics. Then you have Breath of the Wild, and I did not like it. The game felt rushed and big on micro-transactions. Especially where the Master Sword was a terrible weapon until you bought the DLC. Tears of the Kingdom felt like a fixed version of BOTW, and therefore better. It's more like an expansion pack for BOTW than a game in of itself. The building mechanic was a brilliant idea, and they did add a sky and underground areas on top of the original BOTW map. Also the Master Sword no longer sucks and is much easier to acquire. But are these games better than both God of War's, Elden Ring, and Baldur's Gate 3? No sorry, those games blow any Nintendo game out of the water, and I'm just mentioning recent games. If I wanna go back seven years of the Switch's life then there's a lot of games you're missing out. I can sum up the Switch's library as ported WiiU Deluxe games, Remakes/Remasters, and of course new releases. Of course the Switch littered with trash games like Wobbledogs, which is also on PC.

Does this mean that people don't have FOMO over Nintendo games? Absolutely they do, but I think that Nintendo's quality seal is slowly losing it's value. The more people find out that Switch games work on PC, let alone portable hand held PC's like the Steam Deck then that value is lost.

That's why Nintendo likely isn't going to worry much about handheld PCs, or porting Switch 2 games to Windows. The games that will actually drive Switch 2 sales will already be on the platform, and they'll be more compelling (sales wise, at least) than the vast majority of the Windows game library.

I believe they are. I believe they delayed the launch of the Switch 2 because they wanted to see if Valve would release a Steam Deck2. They also delayed the Switch 2 because they wanted to destroy all Switch emulators. I also believe that Nintendo is having some regrets going with Nvidia because the power consumption of the T239 may not be great. They went with Nvidia because they do have seven years of software development on it, but it is an outdated chip built on Samsung 8nm. The Nvidia Jetson AGX Orin which is the nearest thing to the T239, can pull serious power. It was designed with 15–75 watts in mind. The original Switch ranged from 7w-18w.


View: https://youtu.be/CD8uUWIhgNA?si=Ds3JNMbwwsE4kb2z

 

[Mchart]

I'm not convinced of that yet. The hands-on experiences start in early April and wrap at the very start of June. It'd be odd to have that kind of confidence in public access to a console but not ship until months later.

Yeah, if they are having people use what is basically a production model in April/May, a summer release seems more likely.

 

[Marees]

DLSS4 can upscale 1080p to 4K. It could give a big boost to Switch 2 performance

 

[Flogger23m]

I can't tell you what it encompases specifically for gen 9, but in gen 8, it was raids. in earlier gens, there was stuff like your castle or whatever it was called in sun/moon. I bet you can't do that on a steam deck.
Maybe that doesn't matter to you. A lot of legit players do.

Battling other players has been central to the experience since the originals on Game Link. Online is quite big for it, and teams and strategy can become quite complex. The single player has largely become a button masher though. So even if you can play it on a Deck, why bother if it can't be used online?