XLeezardx
[H]ardChef
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I am a 2700 BP Sagat player. I have the most trouble against Blanka, Balrog and Bison!!! Damn you Dimingo and your Bison head stomps hahahaha.
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Street Fighter 4 Thread
- Thread starter AthlonXP
- Start date
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Sagat's a sumbitch to deal with now that Honda has no anti-air and Vega does no damage - I'm just lucky that Bison and Blanka can hang with him!
Domingo
Fully [H]
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If someone jumps in with an actual attack that you block - try doing a move as a counter hit. For instance with Ryu you can block a jump kick and do the motion for a dragon punch right as he's landing. It'll beat a throw and unless he's really deep with the jumping attack, it'll beat any follow-up combo attempts, too.
Another safe trick is one that's from the old school. You block incoming jump attacks but keep holding back and hitting the throw buttons. You'll typically throw them first or at worst - in SF4 you'll cancel each other out. Unless their timing is really good and they have the jumping attack timed really deep - this will stop that nonsense.
Another safe trick is one that's from the old school. You block incoming jump attacks but keep holding back and hitting the throw buttons. You'll typically throw them first or at worst - in SF4 you'll cancel each other out. Unless their timing is really good and they have the jumping attack timed really deep - this will stop that nonsense.
I had mvsc2 for the longest time and finally sold it a month or so before reserving my SFIV CE, broke even and then some lol. It was hard for me especially because I think we're all used to the vs style combo system that isn't really the same with the traditional SF series. I'm still hoping for mvsc3 someday
.Playing Crimson Viper, I can say I can do "ok" with the ps3 pad, but her combo's and set ups really benefit from using a joystick.
I had mvsc2 for the longest time and finally sold it a month or so before reserving my SFIV CE, broke even and then some lol. It was hard for me especially because I think we're all used to the vs style combo system that isn't really the same with the traditional SF series. I'm still hoping for mvsc3 someday
Someday they will release it, and there will be much rejoicing (yay)
Agreed. I hope they bring back Jill also.... my fav character of the bunch!
Chun Li's leg's look tasty and Cammy is proof that a small tight ass is just as good as a heart shaped wonder bottom. For me its a pleasant change of pace from Soul caliber 4's silicon enhanced female warriors.
The thing with C Viper for me is that I can see how balanced and powerful she is. I just can't hit the combos and setups good enough to benefit due to my measly gamepad.
More like elephantitis...but they're way beyond "tasty" (not that I can say any array of well placed pixels is "tasty")
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anyone interested in a gaming stick and game for the ps3 Ia m selling a combo on the FS/FT section
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1401099
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1401099
Ok, I need to revive this thread because I've been playing a lot of SF4 lately. I actually brought my bedroom 38" LCD to join my living room 60" LCD projection for dual screen SF4 fun this last weekend. Had a bunch of friends over, chinese food, and beer. Had to buy a second copy of SF4, this time on the ps3, so that I could run both my consoles at the same time. It was a blast!
I've also been working on my bison game. I use a lot of headstomp and devil's reverse. When I looked on youtube yesterday to see what strategies skilled players use with bison, I barely saw any headstomps and devil's reverse. I saw a lot of standing fierce kicks. It seems to be a good ranged surprise attack as well as decent anti air.
What kind of strategies do you guys use with Bison?
I've also been working on my bison game. I use a lot of headstomp and devil's reverse. When I looked on youtube yesterday to see what strategies skilled players use with bison, I barely saw any headstomps and devil's reverse. I saw a lot of standing fierce kicks. It seems to be a good ranged surprise attack as well as decent anti air.
What kind of strategies do you guys use with Bison?
Domingo
Fully [H]
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The head stomp's pretty good as long as they're in the corner. It beats most anti-air moves or exchanges with more damage. That includes dragon punches, flash kicks, etc.
The key to them stopping that is jumping backward and attacking, which isn't so easy in the corner.
The devil's reverse is generally pretty safe to do, but because it's slow people can beat you before you get into the reverse part. It's ideal for people who love to uppercut too much, though.
It varies from person to person, but the best things to do with Bison are to get relatively close and poke with standing medium kicks, low shorts, and use the LK version of the scissor kick a fair amount. It's safe on block, goes over low attacks, and has good priority. If you knock someone down, the jab psycho crusher will beat anything but a super/ultra as a wake-up...but make sure to have your distance set-up so that you'll be in front of them.
The key to using the headstomp is to use it in the poking battle. They have to block it high, so it's a great mix up after a few low attacks. The EX headstomp beats projectiles from full screen with only a little bit of prediction. Since Bison has so few anti-air moves, use the EX headstomp if someone is crowding you.
The best thing Bison has going for him is his jumping double medium punch. You can beat out almost any air attacks 1-on-1 with it, and if it lands - you're guaranteed a super, ultra, or at least and EX move afterward. For some reason his ultra almost never works when I want it to, so I just do an EX psycho crusher. If you can do the ultra on command - this combo is one of the best in the whole game. It's especially key if they're jumping backward a lot expecting you to do the headstomp.
Lately I've been neglecting Bison & 'Gief and sticking to Honda and Blanka (boredom mainly) but he's still really good.
Really bad matches in SF4 are really tough, IMO. Stuff like Honda or Vega against Sagat are almost unwinnable. Bison only has a few of those fights, which is nice.
The key to them stopping that is jumping backward and attacking, which isn't so easy in the corner.
The devil's reverse is generally pretty safe to do, but because it's slow people can beat you before you get into the reverse part. It's ideal for people who love to uppercut too much, though.
It varies from person to person, but the best things to do with Bison are to get relatively close and poke with standing medium kicks, low shorts, and use the LK version of the scissor kick a fair amount. It's safe on block, goes over low attacks, and has good priority. If you knock someone down, the jab psycho crusher will beat anything but a super/ultra as a wake-up...but make sure to have your distance set-up so that you'll be in front of them.
The key to using the headstomp is to use it in the poking battle. They have to block it high, so it's a great mix up after a few low attacks. The EX headstomp beats projectiles from full screen with only a little bit of prediction. Since Bison has so few anti-air moves, use the EX headstomp if someone is crowding you.
The best thing Bison has going for him is his jumping double medium punch. You can beat out almost any air attacks 1-on-1 with it, and if it lands - you're guaranteed a super, ultra, or at least and EX move afterward. For some reason his ultra almost never works when I want it to, so I just do an EX psycho crusher. If you can do the ultra on command - this combo is one of the best in the whole game. It's especially key if they're jumping backward a lot expecting you to do the headstomp.
Lately I've been neglecting Bison & 'Gief and sticking to Honda and Blanka (boredom mainly) but he's still really good.
Really bad matches in SF4 are really tough, IMO. Stuff like Honda or Vega against Sagat are almost unwinnable. Bison only has a few of those fights, which is nice.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Oh yeah, also - don't neglect the teleport.
With so few defensive options, often it's better to just get out of dodge. That's also a GREAT way to deal with people who want to create distance. Mix up teleporting in front and behind them. Since Bison's moves are mostly involving charges, the throw is often the best bet after a successful teleport behind.
With so few defensive options, often it's better to just get out of dodge. That's also a GREAT way to deal with people who want to create distance. Mix up teleporting in front and behind them. Since Bison's moves are mostly involving charges, the throw is often the best bet after a successful teleport behind.
Damn server restart.... killed my 3 paragraph reply!
Anyway, here's a shortened version:
I knew I could count on you to respond first Domingo. Thanks for the advice on Bison. Can you elaborate more on a few things though?
1) I rarely use psycho crusher. What do you mean by jab psycho crusher? U mean that if you land a jab, always follow with PC? Also, what's the point of timing it so that you land in front of them rather than behind? Either way, if they block, don't they get a free sweep?
2) I've got the Hori EX2 stick for the 360. I do much better on this than the joypad, so I don't care about the crap people talk about it. It suits me fine. I can get out Bison's ultras with ease. But since I use ex headstomp so often, I rarely have a full bar to use the super on. When you talked about following a jumping double medium punch, and then following with a super/ultra, how exactly does this work? I didn't actually play around with that double medium jumping punch until last night. Does the punch actually land twice in the air and then knocks down the player?
3) at 2350bp, I'm ranked about 11,000 on the 360. How does that compare on PSN?
Anyway, here's a shortened version:
I knew I could count on you to respond first Domingo. Thanks for the advice on Bison. Can you elaborate more on a few things though?
1) I rarely use psycho crusher. What do you mean by jab psycho crusher? U mean that if you land a jab, always follow with PC? Also, what's the point of timing it so that you land in front of them rather than behind? Either way, if they block, don't they get a free sweep?
2) I've got the Hori EX2 stick for the 360. I do much better on this than the joypad, so I don't care about the crap people talk about it. It suits me fine. I can get out Bison's ultras with ease. But since I use ex headstomp so often, I rarely have a full bar to use the super on. When you talked about following a jumping double medium punch, and then following with a super/ultra, how exactly does this work? I didn't actually play around with that double medium jumping punch until last night. Does the punch actually land twice in the air and then knocks down the player?
3) at 2350bp, I'm ranked about 11,000 on the 360. How does that compare on PSN?
Teleport is a move I never do on purpose. I should play with this more.
Also, one of the best players I've faced so far (maybe 3200bp) would counter my headstomps with the medium punch/medium kick press (this is called a focus attack right?) and consistently crumple me. Is this a viable technique to use against anybody that jumps at you?
Also, one of the best players I've faced so far (maybe 3200bp) would counter my headstomps with the medium punch/medium kick press (this is called a focus attack right?) and consistently crumple me. Is this a viable technique to use against anybody that jumps at you?
NSCTripleAgent
Limp Gawd
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The two-piece medium juggles. After landing two, you can do one more hit with it in the air, or go for a special/super/ultra before they land. And don't worry about the super, using EX moves, especially stomp, is way more important. Free ultra is pretty good, I would suggest training mode to get used to landing ultra on a midair opponent, since it starts with a scissor kick.
EDIT - About using Focus as Anti-Air, it's only good against attacks that only hit once. If you're falling for that, mix it up with intentionally missing and Devil Reverse to try to make him panic or land and throw from behind while he is stuck in FA animation.
PS. Hurt my shoulder, haven't been playing, but will get back on in a day or two(Damn TE stick just calls me lol). Anyone from the [H] who wants to play, XBL - TripleAgent. Let me know you're from the [H], or I'll probably deny the friend request.
Domingo
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The psycho crusher leaves you somewhat open, but if you use the jab one you can do it so his hands will hit them, but he wont pass through behind them. Hell stay in front of them and youll be able to block whatever they do. If they sweep you can block it and then scissor kick.
You have to be right at the end of a sweep distance when you do it, but it has insane priority and its safe. Its nothing you can repeat or anything, but if youre relatively close to someone when you knock them down, its worth doing for a safe high priority attack. Sometimes you can intentionally do it too early and then throw em instead.
For the double air punch Bison can actually punch people twice in the air with his medium punch. Just hit the button twice when attacking someone else whos jumping or airborne. It was first added back in Super Turbo and was one of the first SF juggle moves ever.
In SF4, when you jump up and hit someone with both punches, youll land before they will. The next attack that you do that is either an EX, super, or ultra will hit them as a juggle.
This essentially allows you to play Bison a little like Mortal Kombat. When you see someone start to jump, you jump up and intercept them with the double punch, followed by a juggle. Chun Li can do this with her fierce punch, too. If you rarely have a super with Bison (considering how awesome his EX moves are thats understandable), just use the EX psycho crusher instead. If you have his ultra thats the best one of all.
I havent checked my rank or played a ranked match on PSN in a long time, but Im at 2605, and that used to be somewhere around 8,000th. I was something like 60-3 but I really hate the way ranked matches work. Ive got no intention of playing any more either. Playing my best character against their best for one match is no fun. You dont even have a chance to adjust. I tend to confuse the hell out of people at first, so I tend to do better than most. That still doesnt make it fun, though. Ive got almost 900 unranked matches and Ive got something like 200 losses on there, just because its fun to use the whole cast.
Bison's all about staying in someone's face, and I've got to recommend throwing people who block too much. It tends to make people mad or want revenge, so that's even better. Considering how un-abusable throws are in SF4, screw 'em and keep tossing them.
You have to be right at the end of a sweep distance when you do it, but it has insane priority and its safe. Its nothing you can repeat or anything, but if youre relatively close to someone when you knock them down, its worth doing for a safe high priority attack. Sometimes you can intentionally do it too early and then throw em instead.
For the double air punch Bison can actually punch people twice in the air with his medium punch. Just hit the button twice when attacking someone else whos jumping or airborne. It was first added back in Super Turbo and was one of the first SF juggle moves ever.
In SF4, when you jump up and hit someone with both punches, youll land before they will. The next attack that you do that is either an EX, super, or ultra will hit them as a juggle.
This essentially allows you to play Bison a little like Mortal Kombat. When you see someone start to jump, you jump up and intercept them with the double punch, followed by a juggle. Chun Li can do this with her fierce punch, too. If you rarely have a super with Bison (considering how awesome his EX moves are thats understandable), just use the EX psycho crusher instead. If you have his ultra thats the best one of all.
I havent checked my rank or played a ranked match on PSN in a long time, but Im at 2605, and that used to be somewhere around 8,000th. I was something like 60-3 but I really hate the way ranked matches work. Ive got no intention of playing any more either. Playing my best character against their best for one match is no fun. You dont even have a chance to adjust. I tend to confuse the hell out of people at first, so I tend to do better than most. That still doesnt make it fun, though. Ive got almost 900 unranked matches and Ive got something like 200 losses on there, just because its fun to use the whole cast.
Bison's all about staying in someone's face, and I've got to recommend throwing people who block too much. It tends to make people mad or want revenge, so that's even better. Considering how un-abusable throws are in SF4, screw 'em and keep tossing them.
Thanks for the responses Agent/Domingo, really appreciate the input!
Agent: The encounter with the player that would focus my air stomp was within my first 10 online matches or so. At that point I didn't know all of Bison's move and so did not know how to use the devil's reverse/intentional miss. I'm a lot more of a diverse player now and don't just repeatedly head stomp. I'll mix in throws and focus attacks to overwhelm and confuse.
Domingo: I'll play around with the psycho crusher a bit more. Never really thought of using the light psycho crusher.
Thanks for the lesson on juggling. I never really played Mortal Kombat and didn't play SF after championship edition SF2. A lot of the techniques are new to me.
As I mentioned earlier, I mix in throws into my repertoire quite a bit. When I do a fake headstomp and they just hold back the whole time, it's usually a free throw for me. Can't do that too often to zangief though, otherwise I just fall victim to the lariat.
Agent: The encounter with the player that would focus my air stomp was within my first 10 online matches or so. At that point I didn't know all of Bison's move and so did not know how to use the devil's reverse/intentional miss. I'm a lot more of a diverse player now and don't just repeatedly head stomp. I'll mix in throws and focus attacks to overwhelm and confuse.
Domingo: I'll play around with the psycho crusher a bit more. Never really thought of using the light psycho crusher.
Thanks for the lesson on juggling. I never really played Mortal Kombat and didn't play SF after championship edition SF2. A lot of the techniques are new to me.
As I mentioned earlier, I mix in throws into my repertoire quite a bit. When I do a fake headstomp and they just hold back the whole time, it's usually a free throw for me. Can't do that too often to zangief though, otherwise I just fall victim to the lariat.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Looks like the forum's back.
For Zangief - pretty much EVERYTHING is a free lariat for him. It's arguably the best move in the whole damned game. It's why I've been a little annoyed with SF4's Zangief. He went from a skill character to a complete spaz because of that move. I do love Gief vs. Gief matches, though. Skill wins those like 99% of the time as long as you land that first hit.
One of the keys to throwing people is to keep up contant pressure with low jabs and shorts that are combo'd into the short scissor kick. That move's about 99% safe and people LOVE to try to sweep after it. Mix up throwing them with doing another scissor kick over the sweep. If they go for the throw on you, the two will just cancel out.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I *think* if someone is wide open when being thrown, they can't get out of it. I know I've pretty much never seen anyone escape one from behind or while frozen after a fireball. I've never managed to get out of one either, no matter how quickly I mash that escape.
For Zangief - pretty much EVERYTHING is a free lariat for him. It's arguably the best move in the whole damned game. It's why I've been a little annoyed with SF4's Zangief. He went from a skill character to a complete spaz because of that move. I do love Gief vs. Gief matches, though. Skill wins those like 99% of the time as long as you land that first hit.
One of the keys to throwing people is to keep up contant pressure with low jabs and shorts that are combo'd into the short scissor kick. That move's about 99% safe and people LOVE to try to sweep after it. Mix up throwing them with doing another scissor kick over the sweep. If they go for the throw on you, the two will just cancel out.
I'm not 100% sure about this, but I *think* if someone is wide open when being thrown, they can't get out of it. I know I've pretty much never seen anyone escape one from behind or while frozen after a fireball. I've never managed to get out of one either, no matter how quickly I mash that escape.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Bison can give Akuma a hard time with damage alone. Since Akuma takes 1/3 more damage, Bison's tic-tac block damage and occasional hits really add up. Plus, Akuma's air fireballs are worthless when Bison's headstomp goes over them or he teleports beneath him.
I know the few Akuma's that have given me troubles have been really good at turtling and running like hell
I know the few Akuma's that have given me troubles have been really good at turtling and running like hell
NSCTripleAgent
Limp Gawd
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Yeah, you can't tech a throw during recovery frames. Been that way since SF3.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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I never really played SF3 as much as the others, so I didn't really pick up on the intricate details from it as much as the SF2 or Alpha games. I know in those - you could throw soften out of anything that wasn't a special throw any time. Pretty annoying, IMO.
That guy playing Bison definitely has the EX cancel down pat. I can nail most of the other items, although he's doing a 2-in-1 off of the low fierce that doesn't seem to work using normal timing.
One of these days I definitely need to just sit down and work on incorporating the EX moves better. I always forget about them.
That guy playing Bison definitely has the EX cancel down pat. I can nail most of the other items, although he's doing a 2-in-1 off of the low fierce that doesn't seem to work using normal timing.
One of these days I definitely need to just sit down and work on incorporating the EX moves better. I always forget about them.
Creepingdeath1977
2[H]4U
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This is probably because I suck, but I really hate people that spam the throw.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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In general, throwing is something that is essential in the Street Fighter games. Otherwise, what's to keep someone from just blocking all day? Chip damage from special moves can affect someone turtling up, but if they're effective at jumping straight up, EX'ing, parrying, etc. (depends on the SF game) - you're really left with someone that's tough to damage...especially if they have a lead.
I'll admit that it was pretty abusable in some of the early games back when there was no "tech" option, but they've been fair ever since the days of super turbo. Even in the earliest ones, there were always ways around being tossed, but they were a little overpowered and too rangey in some cases.
With SF4 - throws have VERY minimal range and as long as you're not wide open, you can escape with no damage at all. To do an old school "tic" throw (fast attack then throw) isn't easy, and with the insane overpowered ultras, you're really risking your life every time you do one.
The main reason that guy keeps doing them in that video is because Bison's moves involve holding a direction for about a second and to do an EX cancel, you actually don't have time to charge up something in many cases...hence the throw. He could just as easily have just done a standing punch or kick, but that doesn't offer the same amount of damage or advantage.
I'll admit that it was pretty abusable in some of the early games back when there was no "tech" option, but they've been fair ever since the days of super turbo. Even in the earliest ones, there were always ways around being tossed, but they were a little overpowered and too rangey in some cases.
With SF4 - throws have VERY minimal range and as long as you're not wide open, you can escape with no damage at all. To do an old school "tic" throw (fast attack then throw) isn't easy, and with the insane overpowered ultras, you're really risking your life every time you do one.
The main reason that guy keeps doing them in that video is because Bison's moves involve holding a direction for about a second and to do an EX cancel, you actually don't have time to charge up something in many cases...hence the throw. He could just as easily have just done a standing punch or kick, but that doesn't offer the same amount of damage or advantage.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Not always possible. That really only works when he's doing it from too far away. If he's within 1/2 screen - it'll essentially seek you out or your character will go into a blocked stance instead of walking backward. From more than 1/2 screen - that'll definitely work, though. From a closer distance, a focus move is good if you're certain he's doing the stomp and it's not the EX version. If you're Sagat - just jump backwards and hit roundhouse. Yet another way Sagat's overpowered. His jump angle beats Bison's stomp a little too well.
Bison becomes tougher in-close when he can go from a low kick into either a scissor kick, stomp, EX stomp, or focus move.
I've recently started using the EX stomp as an anti-air and it works wonders. He's invulnerable for 3-4 frames in the beginning and that move does pretty hefty damage.
Hmm, I find that bison is very vulnerable if you are viper and up close against him. Viper is really versatile when she can get in real close with Bison. Her constant push with TK's, overhead elbows, and weak BK can keep the opponent guessing. I've also never found it a problem for the headstomp to whiff against me, I guess that little "hop" sound he does really gives me the audio que to dash back lol. But then again, once you're in close against Bison, its kinda hard for them to do any of those while trying to defend heh.
Domingo
Fully [H]
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Yeah, Bison's not too great at defense. Your options are pretty much EX moves (mainly the stomp), focus attacks, or just warp the hell out of there.
For those of you considering an ebay fightstick, I just picked up a second one, this time for the ps3. It's one of the generic $50 ones that you can find off of ebay ($60 buy it now price).
My 360 joystick is the Hori EX2, considered by many to be an inferior joystick to the many $150+ versions. I don't mind either of these joysticks because 1) they only cost me $50 and 2) they get the job done for me MUCH better than the joystick for me and 3) definitely gives me an advantage over the competition.
The one thing that is annoying about the ps3 generic version is that there is no preset arcade configuration for it. If you ever are in a situation where you have to change it around, hopefully you have it memorized. Each of the buttons are numbered from 1-8 rather than the X, O, R1, R2, etc. of the ps3 joypad. Once you get it setup though, it's definitely not bad.
I don't understand why I can get generic ps3 joysticks now for $50 while there is currently no joystick under $100 for the 360. I'm lucky that I got my Hori before sf4 came out.
My 360 joystick is the Hori EX2, considered by many to be an inferior joystick to the many $150+ versions. I don't mind either of these joysticks because 1) they only cost me $50 and 2) they get the job done for me MUCH better than the joystick for me and 3) definitely gives me an advantage over the competition.
The one thing that is annoying about the ps3 generic version is that there is no preset arcade configuration for it. If you ever are in a situation where you have to change it around, hopefully you have it memorized. Each of the buttons are numbered from 1-8 rather than the X, O, R1, R2, etc. of the ps3 joypad. Once you get it setup though, it's definitely not bad.
I don't understand why I can get generic ps3 joysticks now for $50 while there is currently no joystick under $100 for the 360. I'm lucky that I got my Hori before sf4 came out.
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Is there a 360 version of the one in the link?
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Unless a controller is approved my microsoft, it isn't going to work. They put a security chip to prevent unapproved devices. This is a reason why we don't see mouse and keyboard adapters either. Here's a link that tells more about it.
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edit...double post