Starfield

Based on reviews I popped a pre-order for the premium edition upgrade since I have Gamepass already. This looks like it will be a great way to spend the upcoming holiday weekend.
 
This is a first, no?

As mentioned, each of the graphics presets in Starfield automatically turn FSR 2 on. The Ultra preset uses a 75% render resolution, High uses a 62% render resolution, and both Medium and Low use 50%. Those changes have a massive impact on performance.

I'm going to try to run without when I get around to trying this game. (I just started a Civ VI marathon game, and I have a few other titles in the pipeline I may choose to play first if I don't get a good deal on Starfield (one thing is for certain, not paying $70)

But who knows. If I start dipping below 60fps, I may have to turn it back on.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Thanks for that.

Last Bethesda game I played was Fallout 4, so I don't really have any information about anything newer than 2015 as far as Bethesda goes.
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Yeah Bethesda did have their own launcher, but once the MSFT thing started moving along....and realizing Steam was a much better launcher, they cancelled the launcher and moved all users who used it over to Steam.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
This is a first, no?

As mentioned, each of the graphics presets in Starfield automatically turn FSR 2 on. The Ultra preset uses a 75% render resolution, High uses a 62% render resolution, and both Medium and Low use 50%. Those changes have a massive impact on performance.

I'm going to try to run without when I get around to trying this game. (I just started a Civ VI marathon game, and I have a few other titles in the pipeline I may choose to play first if I don't get a good deal on Starfield (one thing is for certain, not paying $70)

But who knows. If I start dipping below 60fps, I may have to turn it back on.
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The thing about performance. We have no idea if V-cache plays a HUGE role in performance. Some games love it, some games it dont matter. Also, its totally possible the game plays better on AMD GPU's over Nvidia's. Look at Call of Duty. For some reason the 7900xtx is as fast/faster than a 4090 in that game.

why? Who the fuck knows.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
This is a first, no?

As mentioned, each of the graphics presets in Starfield automatically turn FSR 2 on. The Ultra preset uses a 75% render resolution, High uses a 62% render resolution, and both Medium and Low use 50%. Those changes have a massive impact on performance.

I'm going to try to run without when I get around to trying this game. (I just started a Civ VI marathon game, and I have a few other titles in the pipeline I may choose to play first if I don't get a good deal on Starfield (one thing is for certain, not paying $70)

But who knows. If I start dipping below 60fps, I may have to turn it back on.
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This is why I go through all the options individually. Can't wait for the posts tonight complaining about how badly the game looks.
 
Armenius said:
This is why I go through all the options individually. Can't wait for the posts tonight complaining about how badly the game looks.
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So, on the topic of FSR2:

Low & Medium Presets -> 50% FSR2 Resolution
High Preset -> 62% FSR2 Resolution
Ultra Preset -> 74% FSR2 Resolution


IQ Comparison:

1693504684724.png


1693504715007.png


IMHO, Ultra looks pretty good despite 75% scaling.

All of this from the previously posted review on Digital Trends:

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/starfield-pc-performance-best-settings-fsr-2/

It's a little disconcerting to see all of these third person screenshots. I hope none of them are forced. To me, the proper way to play any game is all first person all the time.
 
Pringle said:
https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/31/23853561/starfield-no-dlss-support-launch-bethesda

"..there’s nothing stopping Bethesda from adding DLSS to Starfield. “If they want to do DLSS, they have AMD’s full support,” said AMD gaming chief Frank Azor. "

Whatever that's worth lol
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Translation: FSR/No-DLSS is a timed exclusive.

I'm co-factoring this interview from last week heavily:

Azor, a co-founder of Alienware, has had many open conversations with me over the years, and this is the only thing he’s been cagey about all afternoon. AMD specifically prepped for this exact question, he says, because the situation’s a little delicate. “We want to be very careful not to put this answer onto our partners,” says Azor.
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However: I would lay money it was Bethesda's decision to go this route as part of the overall deal to distro Starfield with AMD products, in honor of the partnership- "we got your back".

IOW, AMD's stance was never explicitly "No Nvidia stuff or no deal". There's nothing sinister here - Frank Azor is not Tim Sweeney - and it's merely an inconvenience for a while for people wanting DLSS. AMD is also not under any "this is how we beat Nvidia!" delusions. It's not the point.
 
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NightReaver said:
People will still make excuses. Now it'll be something like "AMD probably gives more money to not work on DLSS".

Game will still probably sell like crazy, further reinforcing that no, most people don't care about DLSS or ray tracing to enjoy a game.
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Nor should most people give a s*** about DLSS or ray tracing. It's only the pixel scrutinizers who obsess over screenshots and frames per second (anything over 30 is fine if its not a multiplayer shooter) who get into that.
 
NightReaver said:
People will still make excuses. Now it'll be something like "AMD probably gives more money to not work on DLSS".

Game will still probably sell like crazy, further reinforcing that no, most people don't care about DLSS or ray tracing to enjoy a game.
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The official line is being an AMD title means there is an expectation of prioritization of AMD features, but there is nothing binding in the contract, and nothing that precludes competitors technologies.

What exactly "prioritize" implies is left up to the interpretation of the developer/publisher and then AMD makes future sponsorship decisions based on how the experience turns out.

So, yeah. Lots of weasel words.
 
peppergomez said:
Nor should most people give a s*** about DLSS or ray tracing. It's only the pixel scrutinizers who obsess over screenshots who get into that.
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such a dumb take, at least about DLSS. DLSS when properly implemented is like a free +100% performance boost in gpu limited titles, with very little image quality impact. it's insane to argue against it, it's like shouting "who needs delicious tender filet mignon, we all know potatoes are just fine"
 
Brackle said:
Like all Bethesda games you can play in first or third person view.
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That has been the case in the past, but you can't always determine the future based on the past. Far Cry was traditionally always a 100% first person title, but then in Far Cry 6 there was suddenly forced third person in some settlements, which drove me up an absolute wall and almost made me quit the game.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
This is what I am interested in.

I know my Threadripper 3960x is aging, but I'm hoping it will get me through this title with 60fps minimums.

I wonder if it uses lots of threads? :D
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According to the video, it really only hammers 1-2 main threads like most games, which really is fucking stupid in this day and age.
IPC is what is going to matter.
 
CAD4466HK said:
According to the video, it really only hammers 1-2 main threads like most games, which really is fucking stupid in this day and age.
IPC is what is going to matter.
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Give the amount we see this, I think properly scaling game engines to more threads is just more difficult than we would hope it is. Not everything can just be split in parallel like we might want, unfortunately. It's easy to whine about game devs being "lazy" but when you see the same issue over and over and over from different studios... you have to consider that maybe it is something that is not so easy to deal with.
 
Colonel Sanders said:
such a dumb take, at least about DLSS. DLSS when properly implemented is like a free +100% performance boost in gpu limited titles, with very little image quality impact. it's insane to argue against it, it's like shouting "who needs delicious tender filet mignon, we all know potatoes are just fine"
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Fair point but if I'm getting at least 30fps I don't care about it
 
Has anybody seen anything about a level cap?
Some reviewers were saying that it took around 80hrs to unlock some skills which has me hoping for a rather high one or none at all.

EDIT:
However, in a groundbreaking revelation during Gamescom 2023, Bethesda’s publishing head, Pete Hines, confirmed that Starfield would have no level cap.
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👏🤝👍
 
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Sycraft said:
Give the amount we see this, I think properly scaling game engines to more threads is just more difficult than we would hope it is. Not everything can just be split in parallel like we might want, unfortunately. It's easy to whine about game devs being "lazy" but when you see the same issue over and over and over from different studios... you have to consider that maybe it is something that is not so easy to deal with.
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But with your avg gamer having at least 6c/12t, I would think at least 4 threads wouldn't be too much to ask for?

Especially since we've had dual cores in 2005 and quads in 2006.
I think they have had more than enough time to do it. Speaking of which, there are more than a few games that can take advantage of at least 8 threads.
 
  • Regarding the DLSS Bethesda AMD issue I believe AMD said money exchanged hands. It's kind of obvious there is a contract / agreement, but we don't know the specifics. My bet is Bethesda can implement DLSS, but take a financial hit. And / or resources are allocated to polishing the game and prepping FSR3 for the future.
  • I don't mind the critical 7ish out 10 reviews. Good to see their thoughts on the game.
  • Saw this post regarding Xbox App / Game Pass - Starfield might not use Nvidia game ready profile. https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/166gq5m/starfield_correct_the_nvidia_profile_issue/
 
CAD4466HK said:
Has anybody seen anything about a level cap?
Some reviewers were saying that it took around 80hrs to unlock some skills which has me hoping for a rather high one or none at all.
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Haven't seen an explicit limit stated, but FWIW, according to this build planner, level (in spoiler) would _theoretically_ be needed to max out everything.

I reckon most people will run out of patience before they do levels.

Level 326

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/1668gh5/according_to/
 
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peppergomez said:
Fair point but if I'm getting at least 30fps I don't care about it
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IMO I think the reason they did just FSR 2.0 is because its supported by all video cards. Including older Nvidia cards that dont have DLSS. So, in a companies eye its easier to implement 1 technology for everyone, instead of 1 technology for a select few people.

Now quality wise, DLSS is superior to FSR. But I can understand the logic as to why DLSS wasn't needed. FSR Supports everyone.
 
trikat said:
  • Regarding the DLSS Bethesda AMD issue I believe AMD said money exchanged hands. It's kind of obvious there is a contract / agreement, but we don't know the specifics. My bet is Bethesda can implement DLSS, but take a financial hit. And / or resources are allocated to polishing the game and prepping FSR3 for the future.
  • I don't mind the critical 7ish out 10 reviews. Good to see their thoughts on the game.
  • Saw this post regarding Xbox App / Game Pass - Starfield might not use Nvidia game ready profile. https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/166gq5m/starfield_correct_the_nvidia_profile_issue/
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But again, this is all speculation. Again, there is nothing stopping Bethesda adding DLSS. Why would they? Since right away FSR is supported on the Xbox AND PC (For everyone).
 
DPI said:
I reckon most people would run out of patience before running out of levels.

According to this build planner, level (in spoiler) would _theoretically_ be needed to max out everything.

Level 326

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starfield/comments/1668gh5/according_to/
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However, in a groundbreaking revelation during Gamescom 2023, Bethesda’s publishing head, Pete Hines, confirmed that Starfield would have no level cap.
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So for XP we can still scavenge the universe to our hearts desire.
And the New Game + mode makes it even more appealing.
 
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trikat said:
  • Regarding the DLSS Bethesda AMD issue I believe AMD said money exchanged hands. It's kind of obvious there is a contract / agreement, but we don't know the specifics. My bet is Bethesda can implement DLSS, but take a financial hit. And / or resources are allocated to polishing the game and prepping FSR3 for the future.
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Your bet is 100% wrong. There is nothing contractual on those points.

You ever think that maybe NV is pulling huge resources away from gaming to go into AI and is rolling out the bullshit-mobile to not look bad when they come up short in gaming because of their actions? There is already talk of NV pulling GPU allocations from major AIBs in Q4....the biggest selling quarter of the year for gaming GPUs....due to resources going into data center.
 
FrgMstr said:
There is already talk of NV pulling GPU allocations from major AIBs in Q4....the biggest selling quarter of the year for gaming GPUs....due to resources going into data center.
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The question is, is this because they have unsold 40 series GPU's on the shelves, or because they plan to de-prioritize gaming all together?
 
Didn't the dlss story come out about when the 4060 flop got released?

I remember when it first got claimed that AMD pays devs off I asked for some proof. I was then literally told "I saw it on a reddit post, but can't find it now".

I frequent another forum significantly more active than here with its own Starfield thread. 1.3k replies and 68 pages. Wide spectrum of nationalities and PC configs, and literally nobody talks about the dumb DLSS story. It's almost like....it's a bunch of made up fluff that doesn't matter.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
The question is, is this because they have unsold 40 series GPU's on the shelves, or because they plan to de-prioritize gaming all together?
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NV already wrote off those GPUs on their balance sheet, not much reason to worry about the impact of that any more. But if you are not putting the engineering resources into say getting DLSS and better performing drivers in huge games....kinda like Starfield....would you rather tell your customers you are shifting resources away from gaming, or would you rather pin it on the big Red bully in the room that we know pulls all kinds of shady market shit all the time. /s
 
FrgMstr said:
Your bet is 100% wrong. There is nothing contractual on those points.

You ever think that maybe NV is pulling huge resources away from gaming to go into AI and is rolling out the bullshit-mobile to not look bad when they come up short in gaming because of their actions? There is already talk of NV pulling GPU allocations from major AIBs in Q4....the biggest selling quarter of the year for gaming GPUs....due to resources going into data center.
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[Frank Azor, AMD gaming marketing head] He admits that — in general — when AMD pays publishers to bundle their games with a new graphics card, AMD does expect them to prioritize AMD features in return. “Money absolutely exchanges hands,” he says. “When we do bundles, we ask them: ‘Are you willing to prioritize FSR?’”
Starfield is bundled with AMD GPUs/CPUs so it sounds like a contractual agreement between Bethesda and AMD.
But without the full details we don't know why DLSS hasn't been implemented, just guesses.
 
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