Starcraft II

supply depot before rax is bs. i am happy about the corruption change. no more feedback! take that protoss players ;) i can't wait to get home and go mass roaches with infestors. should be fun :)
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syn3rgyz said:
zergling dies before it can even get to the top of the ramp

1-2 turrets is enough to fend off muta harass unless i mass them, but when the marines get to the turrets to help out its gonna destroy mass mutas anyways.

changeling?? It only worked on really bad terrans that dont notice a unit moving on its own when you're not controlling it.

honestly the only thing that really works as a harass is burrowed infestors spitting up infested terrans to the back of their base
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Let me help you understand what your posts read like.

"...when the marines get to the turrets to help out its gonna destroy mass mutas anyways. And if I manage to kill his marines like 5 thors pop and wtfpwn my mutas and even if I kill those he has a ghost that nukes my base, but if I have an overseer to spot his ghost he has like 40 vikins to kill my overseer, but if i get hydras to kill his vikings he has a bazillion tanks to kill my hydrays." etc. etc.

If you run into his base and pick off a turret or two his marines don't magically appear by his turrets. He has to run them back and he's probably going to stim them to get them back double quick. So if he runs them back he's not attacking you and you can expand or build more units or both and you'll have the added benefit of having used up some medivac energy.
If he decides not to run them back you can continue raping his base with mutas while he attacks you. Hopefully you've got a fairly substantial force at your base to deal with his attack and can repel him with minimal drone loss. If his resolve waiver and he retreats you can try picking off the remnants of his army with speelings or even you mutas.

Your posts make me think you've got this image in your head that no matter what you do your Terran opponent is going to have a counter and kill you. That is simply not the case unless he is scouting you hard and far better than you. Or if he gets lucky.
 
northrop said:
supply depot before rax is bs. i am happy about the corruption change. no more feedback! take that protoss players ;) i can't wait to get home and go mass roaches with infestors. should be fun :)
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
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Yeah all I can say is HOLY NERF BAT BATMAN!

I like then entire patch except for two things.

The Nitro Packs needing Factory and Depot before Rax are fucking stupid. I could see one or the other but not both. Reapers are now 100% useless in all phases of the game especially since they don't even bother undoing the previous reaper build time nerf.

Although I'm still eyeballing trying to figure out how to do a marauder drop at natural at the same time as a 8 reaper medivac drop to take out tech buildings in the main in a matter of seconds. ;)

The Void Ray nerf is welcome. 3gateway + 3vr pushes were nasty and more or less impossible to beat unless you blindly went the hard counter of 3rax or fast vikings.
 
Voidrays have just become extremely vulnerable to all air units in the game

and useless if you get hit with a marauder rush, lol marauders will clear out your entire base before you can kill them if you went VR's
 
Think I'm going to change races soon. Currently play terran but after so many TvT's where the other player does mass tank, marine, viking I'm sick of more or less having to do the same or get BCs. Sure a raven TDD will stop the marine fire long enough to kill the tanks, but the tanks don't get stopped by the raven. It's really just annoying now.
 
Lol, fuck void rays, they were only good if you microed them really well, and even then they were extremely vulnerable. I almost never use them, that's basically newbie balance in my opinion.
 
SonicTron said:
Voidrays have just become extremely vulnerable to all air units in the game

and useless if you get hit with a marauder rush, lol marauders will clear out your entire base before you can kill them if you went VR's
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I think I disagree with this, but I will have to see it in action. This will make VRs much more effective against mauraders. Instead of doing 5 damage for several seconds and then bumping up to 25 they'll start off doing 10 damage and then building up to 16. So they'll be less effective when full charged, but they'll be much more effective if they don't have a charge built up.

Of course, with their speed nerf that could hurt quite a bit as well. They are going to be much slower when upgraded than before.

My big question is why the hell hasn't Blizzard addressed SCV priority? My friend dominates me when he rolls up with a thor and some SCVs if I don't have storm. My stupid ass zealots just run around trying to attack the thor but can't thanks to all those asshole SCVs I can't select because they're like goddamn chicks under a hen. That is my biggest gripe by far.
 
VR base damage is now 6 (+4 armored). That's a huge uncharged change against armored. It used to deal 5 to everything without any charges... so its armored damage went from 5 -> 25 to 10 -> 16, 100% increase and 36% decrease respectively. Its not-armored damage took a 20% increase and a 20% decrease respectively.

I don't think it's really that big of a nerf. I'm going to have to say the speed change is a bigger deal... for me anyway based on how I used void rays.
 
petertew said:
Let me help you understand what your posts read like.

"...when the marines get to the turrets to help out its gonna destroy mass mutas anyways. And if I manage to kill his marines like 5 thors pop and wtfpwn my mutas and even if I kill those he has a ghost that nukes my base, but if I have an overseer to spot his ghost he has like 40 vikins to kill my overseer, but if i get hydras to kill his vikings he has a bazillion tanks to kill my hydrays." etc. etc.

If you run into his base and pick off a turret or two his marines don't magically appear by his turrets. He has to run them back and he's probably going to stim them to get them back double quick. So if he runs them back he's not attacking you and you can expand or build more units or both and you'll have the added benefit of having used up some medivac energy.
If he decides not to run them back you can continue raping his base with mutas while he attacks you. Hopefully you've got a fairly substantial force at your base to deal with his attack and can repel him with minimal drone loss. If his resolve waiver and he retreats you can try picking off the remnants of his army with speelings or even you mutas.

Your posts make me think you've got this image in your head that no matter what you do your Terran opponent is going to have a counter and kill you. That is simply not the case unless he is scouting you hard and far better than you. Or if he gets lucky.
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so basically I have to have 500 apm and be psychic or really lucky like how fruitseller played vs hopetorture in the GSL finals.
 
syn3rgyz said:
so basically I have to have 500 apm and be psychic or really lucky like how fruitseller played vs hopetorture in the GSL finals.
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Haha. No you don't need 500 APM, ESP or luck, but it seems like you do need to change the way you look at the game. Think about your army's strengths are, what his army's weaknesses are and adapt.
 
New patch sucks... Blizzard with its nerf terran is starting to piss me off
All they know how to do is nerf terran... impossible to win matches, by the time i have marines to do a small rush toss now has colossus, roaches range is fucking annoying...
 
Brownstone said:
New patch sucks... Blizzard with its nerf terran is starting to piss me off
All they know how to do is nerf terran... impossible to win matches, by the time i have marines to do a small rush toss now has colossus, roaches range is fucking annoying...
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lmfao, now you complain? zerg/toss players used to complain for MONTHS on end because of terran too OP.

I say, about %^$^%$ time!
 
Brownstone said:
New patch sucks... Blizzard with its nerf terran is starting to piss me off
All they know how to do is nerf terran... impossible to win matches, by the time i have marines to do a small rush toss now has colossus, roaches range is fucking annoying...
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There's a reason for the balance changes you know.
 
Man, roach plus lings early push on protoss can be hard to repel. I just got my ass handed to me in a match.

edit: I used to be able to kite roaches pretty easily with a few stalkers, but now it's way harder.
 
SC2 is all about scouting, reacting, and countering. Some games people are just better then you at it.
 
petertew said:
Man, roach plus lings early push on protoss can be hard to repel. I just got my ass handed to me in a match.

edit: I used to be able to kite roaches pretty easily with a few stalkers, but now it's way harder.
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Noticed the same thing. Forcefields are almost necessary now to keep roaches in check early game.
 
Brownstone said:
New patch sucks... Blizzard with its nerf terran is starting to piss me off
All they know how to do is nerf terran... impossible to win matches, by the time i have marines to do a small rush toss now has colossus, roaches range is fucking annoying...
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.... I hope you're exaterating. You should be able to have 2 mauraders+4 marines by the time a toss player has 2 zealots, 2 stalkers, and a sentry (if that).
 
The barracks needing a supply depot is pure bullshit
rest i can live with... i dont play 1vs1, and my friend with whom i play with have pretty good coordination
I also play protoss, but like terran more... but since this patch i cant play terran, screwed up my timing
 
The void ray nerf is very nice. I play Protoss almost exclusively and I was happy to see those things get brought down to reality. It doesn't feel like the end of the world now when a few voids get charged up on your nexus before you can blink under them. Also, I love the nexus buff; had a bioball maurader heavy army try to drop and down my nexus and I think before they would have easily done it, but that extra 500 hp is a life saver.
 
Void rays needed some sort of nerf. A fully pre patch void ray does 50 dps to armored units. This is without upgrades! Each upgrade per level gives it addition +4 dps.

Now this number is brought down to 26 dps to armored units with the new patch. A welcome change by me, and I main protoss.

I liked most of the changes except the thors losing their energy bar, and terran having to have supply depot before barrack. Now they might as well have zerg require an additional overlord before pool to prevent 6 pool rushes. Since technically protoss always required a pylon before gateway. I think it just changes up the terrans dynamics and strats a little bit.

I know they were trying to nerf the reaper rushes and I don't have an answer to what should have been done.
 
Marshmallow64 said:
I know they were trying to nerf the reaper rushes and I don't have an answer to what should have been done.
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It's partially reaper rushes... but also proxy bunker / double proxy rax rush/cheeses.

You may not think that matters higher up, but FruitDealer (yes the Zerg guy who won GSL#1) apparently abuses proxy rax a lot. Select, one of the best NA terrans likes to abuse proxy bunkers as well.
 
New Starcraft player here: What does "a proxy bunker/barracks rush" mean? What is a 6 pool rush?
 
Proxy just means you're building your said building closer to your opponent. 6 pool rush is a zerg strat which allows for you to get 6 zerglings out and rush your opponent in a very quick fashion at the cost of having your macro be behind.

Check this chan for some good strats.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ForceSC2strategy
 
The movement decrease for reapers is a welcomed change. The depot requirement for rax is just plain silly.

The void fix is where it should be. I used to expand with 1 vr on high yield expansions covered by destructible rocks. With the new patch it significantly takes longer to clear it
 
Dome said:
what if they just made cliff jumping an upgrade that had to be researched?
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Oh man that's a good one, much like tanks get siege or colossi get the ranged upgrade. That in my opinion would definitely slow down the rush
 
Sixthsense said:
Oh man that's a good one, much like tanks get siege or colossi get the ranged upgrade. That in my opinion would definitely slow down the rush
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...So why don't we all just play SimCity then? Rushing is part of the game.
 
I don't think you want to make it an upgrade for a reaper to jump up and down cliffs; it's not quite comparable to colossi range. It's more comparable to the colossi ability to walk up cliffs, and that doesn't require and upgrade, no should it. Reapers are hit and run glass-cannons and while they needed some balancing I think it'd be going overboard to make every good thing about them an upgrade.
 
Incidentally, all it did is change the build order a little bit, you can still effectively rush reapers, I just had to manage my micro much more.
 
After playing all night last night, I do not see reapers used much at all anymore, might see two pop up, but its easily countered.
 
Oh sweet jesus I just had a game that made me want to toss my monitor out the window, and that just doesn't happen often. PvT on lost temple, the guy does FE to island and puts turrets up right away. And you know how terran is, a bunker or two, a siege tank and forget about busting down their main with protoss units. Then he does a PF at his natural (later into a double PF!), covered by tanks from his main.

Of course a terran with three unassailable bases is a fucking joke. I never let him expand a single time after that in the FIFTY THREE minute match we played, and three bases was enough to first mass banshees with raven and viking support (which I used templars and stalkers against... with great difficulty), followed by a huge thor push, and finally when none of it took me out and I had 2 bases secured and he was mined out, he rolls out with 3/3 BCs. Unfortunately my stalkers were still 1/1 (BIG mistake!), so that's GG because HT+stalkers are the only counter to all terran air and apparently BCs can take out an infinite number of underupgraded stalkers. The way terran air now dominates protoss air after the VR nerf is just mind boggling.

What a fucking joke... I hate hate hate playing protoss, why did I get good at them.

Add to this my sense that PvP is the absolute crappiest matchup by far in the game and... ok that's my rant!
 
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