shadow74205
Gawd
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I think you're going to have to start a new campaign, unless you have a saved game from when you were on the Hyperion.
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Starcraft II
- Thread starter maxius
- Start date
shadow74205
Gawd
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- May 30, 2002
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- 537
This is probably a little off topic, but is it just me or does Arcturus look like that fucker Ahmadinejad???
I'm not sure I see much difference in skill as the evening goes on, but then again I haven't played any earlier than 6:30 pm. I do find that sometimes my own skill level decreases as the night goes on, especially if I start losing and getting frustrated. Also, I notice plenty of cheese strategies late at night in Diamond. I got bunker rushed and nearly held it off, but in the end couldn't quite keep from being overwhelmed by bunkers and marines.
Couple of things I've been thinking about while playing.
1. 1v1 > 2v2 > 3v3 >4v4 in terms of fun/skill. I am really starting to dislike 3's and I won't even go near 4's. In 1v1 and to a lesser extent 2v2 you can lose your main army and still stay in the game by quickly rebuilding and defending and then adapting your unit composition. In 3's and 4's that is pretty much impossible. If your main army gets destroyed the opposing team can pretty much always just march into you base and clobber you, so the games always seem to come down to who wins the initial big battle. Just not that much fun imo.
2. Having people rage quit with an "X is OP" type comment always makes winning that much sweeter to me. I played a Terran last night who went rines/rauders/tanks/medivacs/vikings/battlecruisers against my zealot/stalker/sentry/colossi army and he lost. By the time the final battle was going on I was 3.3.3 on all my units and he barely had 2.1 for his rines/rauders and nothing else. After I GG'd him he responds with, "Not really. F#$%ing OP Collosi" followed directly by a rage quit. He said this after he lost about a dozen BC's to my blink stalkers. He was a mid level diamond player and for some reason getting him to rage quit just made the victory that much more fun. Anyone else feel that way or am I just an a-hole?
haha, yeah he kind of does.
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Getting BM'd makes the win all the sweeter.
I'm using a new build that works great versus P and T (works against Z but only on a few specific maps) and yesterday I had 2-3 people mouth off to me after they lost. Two about T being OP and the last was him saying "FACKING CHEAP" and rage quitting. Yes, he actually said "facking".
I actually BM'd for the first time today after I got cheesed for the third straight time. Almost felt like Idra for a second.
There's a thread over at TL.net that talks about people not wanting to ladder specifically because of the cheese and people wanting to be Diamond so they 6 pool the whole way there and then complain about everything being OP when they start losing. People don't want to ladder because you can't use good solid builds and become proficient at them if you're constantly being cheesed.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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Kind of depends. I think 3v3 and 4v4 require a different mind set. Seeing your ally under attack usually invokes the "how do I save him" mind set... but for me, the "how can I screw them over for doing this" comes up. It's not uncommon to trade players constantly. The job of the person under attack is usually to evacuate workers and stall. Players usually think that losing their base is the end of the game for them, but it's super common for someone to rebuild from scratch. Even if all you do is make zerglings to roam the map and be annoying, it's worth it.
Personally I never have the 'big initial battle' in 3v3 and 4v4 since it's almost always a set of smaller skirmishes at different locations coupled with rush / cheese play.
Honestly, I felt like I'd get carpel tunnel from spamming that damn space bar so I just quit after getting 500k. Once you get the pick up sequence down, you could theoretically go for as long as you want.
Getting BM'd makes the win all the sweeter.
I'm using a new build that works great versus P and T (works against Z but only on a few specific maps) and yesterday I had 2-3 people mouth off to me after they lost. Two about T being OP and the last was him saying "FACKING CHEAP" and rage quitting. Yes, he actually said "facking".
I actually BM'd for the first time today after I got cheesed for the third straight time. Almost felt like Idra for a second.
There's a thread over at TL.net that talks about people not wanting to ladder specifically because of the cheese and people wanting to be Diamond so they 6 pool the whole way there and then complain about everything being OP when they start losing. People don't want to ladder because you can't use good solid builds and become proficient at them if you're constantly being cheesed.
What does BM'd stand for? What is this new strat you're using? What division is it working in?
I noticed an interesting pattern of behavior when playing in Silver, Gold, Platinum, and Diamond. In silver I saw a lot more all ins and cheese play, but they were fairly poorly executed. In Gold and low ranked Plat cheese pretty much disappeared. In high level platinum and mid level diamond (ranked 37 dia) I'm seeing more and more cheese. The difference is that the cheese is very well executed and often followed by a real army push.
It's a little frustrating to ladder, but i think once a lot of these cheesy strats are figured out and good counters are found they'll start to disappear.
ragequit or QQ happens all the time
but anyways any decent player above gold who doesn't go ghost against toss is probably a poor player
Wish my only time to really play SC2 wasn't early in the morning before I head to work. The afternoon/evening is usually players who don't do the cheese all-ins. The morning is nothing but cheese builds and with any cheese builds sometimes you just can't win.
I was sick yesterday (stupid co-worker infected half the office instead of going home) and played 15 games while at home (did great except against Z
Then there was the 6 pool on metalopolis where we were next to each other and then same thing except P went hidden fast DT tech with warp prism drop.
My two wins were one guy was lagging so he dropped instead of trying to play and the other was a TvT where the guy tried to mass marine rush off 3 rax into a 5 rax build. Two bunkers at my choke and a hellion drop into his mineral line put an end to his plans.
Still the overall quality of player in the morning always seems lower then afternoon/evening. Anybody else notice this or am I just unlucky in the early hours of the morning? I hate having to adjust my play based on time of the day. Beating back cheese builds won't help me much if I can't actually use solid BO's because I'm constantly doing a 9rax wall off to stop a 6 pool or all-in marine rush.
yeah I noticed that the higher the tiered players the more cheeze they do anything above gold is cheezefeast
and also from est from 4a.m forth to 8a.m is where all plat/ diamond masscheeze players get on and all the casual gamers go to sleep.
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Thought it would be the other way around. Higher level, less cheese, because cheese shouldn't be working in higher level play.
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BM = Bad Manners
The build isn't mine and was originally designed by a 1000+ point Diamond player for TvP. It is a fast hellion drop to the mineral lines followed by a marine/banshee push. This destroys Protoss and works great against Terran especially since most expect fast banshee or reaper harass instead. There have been times where I can nearly destroy every miner the other guy has. Depending on what I see while destroying the mineral line I decide whether or not to grab Cloak for the Banshees.
Protoss can drop cannons in their mineral line to make the initial harass minor as in only a 2-3 probe loss but that actually puts them further behind due to the cost of the Forge and the cannons.
Terran usually has marines to fight this off but not before you cause damage because the marines aren't usually in the mineral line. Again if I don't see an Ebay I'll grab Cloak for my Banshees especially if I did a fair amount of damage to their mineral line since they'll drop Mule's to try to offset the lack of SCV's.
What's really nice is the build works out so that you can expand during that initial drop and then you can transition into just about any build that you want. Drop another rax or two for MMM pressure or get a Fusion Core and go BC.
Against Zerg the build is very situational and map based. I tried it on different maps but the only one that was successful so far was Steppes of War. The angle to the mineral line is what made it work. Something like Lost Temple just doesn't have a good angle on the main but if they did an FE build you might be able to hit the natural a little bit. So I need to keep looking for a better build against Zerg which is my worst match up.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that trend. Maybe I'll just build my first depot on 9 instead of 10 against Zerg now and scout earlier. That way I can build the RAX on 10/11 instead in order to get the wall off built if I scout an early pool build.
The problem is those that can do the cheese builds correctly have been doing it since they were bronze players. It's the only thing they can do but they throw proxies into it and crap. Any cheese build has the ability to work against anybody if executed correctly or you don't get it scouted in time.
Not even close.
Liquid_Cooled
Gawd
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- Sep 28, 2004
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- 793
Had an epic 1hr 4v4 last night.
It was down to 3v2, me being protoss and ally being terran. Other team did a final push with mass hydras, mutas, marines, vikings and battlecruisers. All we had were mass marines, x6 carriers and x8 void rays and I had a mothership on the way. They were massacring us and it was surely GG....... until my mothership came. It cloaked our remaining units (3 carriers and 6 void rays) and we wiped them out since they had no detectors.
It was down to 3v2, me being protoss and ally being terran. Other team did a final push with mass hydras, mutas, marines, vikings and battlecruisers. All we had were mass marines, x6 carriers and x8 void rays and I had a mothership on the way. They were massacring us and it was surely GG....... until my mothership came. It cloaked our remaining units (3 carriers and 6 void rays) and we wiped them out since they had no detectors.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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Regarding cheese:
They are effective in 1v1 if your opponent is unprepared. That said, 'higher level' players will typically be prepared. Cheese is 'balanced' in 1v1 that way.
In 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4, cheese becomes absolutely ridiculous. Just take for example if you 6 pool someone in a 1v1, their workers can defend / stall long enough to make it ineffective with adequate micro. This is the same with something like a reaper rush. However, if you COMBINE a reaper rush with a 6 pool attacking one player, it suddenly becomes impossible to handle and that much harder to deal with regardless of teammates. For this reason alone, cheese becomes drastically more effective with more players on each team.
That said, it's not uncommon for the cheese team to take out 1 or more players but STILL LOSE the game due to poor economy and too much investment in the cheese.
In ALL of my diamond / plat 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 teams - it's about cheese or be cheesed. One SOLID way to play is for example instead of 6 pooling, make it a 9 or 10 pool. You can easily defend against a 6,7, or 8 pool that way and not be behind and perhaps throw a little aggression yourself if your opponent doesn't do so. Same thing goes for stuff like 8/9/10 raxing.
Also, one BIG factor in all of this cheese is the REAPER. This unit literally changes the entire early meta game. This unit counters every other tier 1 unit and absolutely demolishes workers as well as having high mobility. If it weren't for this guy, there would not be as much cheese in team play. I guarantee it.
Another huge incentive to cheese or rush is to avoid units that have extreme scalability with army size. For example, a single siege tank in the back line of a giant army suddenly becomes supper efficient. Zerg armies in team games become very inefficient due to the critical army sizes on the battlefield. So why deal with critical masses of these units when you can just do rush play?
All of this is balanced in 1v1 due to the fact that it is difficult for one player to field a strong enough army to defeat a base with various defender's advantages (small chokes, building placement 'sim city', workers, queens, creep speed, terran wall, forcefield, etc.). However when you have teammates, that critical army size is easily reached early on.
They are effective in 1v1 if your opponent is unprepared. That said, 'higher level' players will typically be prepared. Cheese is 'balanced' in 1v1 that way.
In 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4, cheese becomes absolutely ridiculous. Just take for example if you 6 pool someone in a 1v1, their workers can defend / stall long enough to make it ineffective with adequate micro. This is the same with something like a reaper rush. However, if you COMBINE a reaper rush with a 6 pool attacking one player, it suddenly becomes impossible to handle and that much harder to deal with regardless of teammates. For this reason alone, cheese becomes drastically more effective with more players on each team.
That said, it's not uncommon for the cheese team to take out 1 or more players but STILL LOSE the game due to poor economy and too much investment in the cheese.
In ALL of my diamond / plat 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 teams - it's about cheese or be cheesed. One SOLID way to play is for example instead of 6 pooling, make it a 9 or 10 pool. You can easily defend against a 6,7, or 8 pool that way and not be behind and perhaps throw a little aggression yourself if your opponent doesn't do so. Same thing goes for stuff like 8/9/10 raxing.
Also, one BIG factor in all of this cheese is the REAPER. This unit literally changes the entire early meta game. This unit counters every other tier 1 unit and absolutely demolishes workers as well as having high mobility. If it weren't for this guy, there would not be as much cheese in team play. I guarantee it.
Another huge incentive to cheese or rush is to avoid units that have extreme scalability with army size. For example, a single siege tank in the back line of a giant army suddenly becomes supper efficient. Zerg armies in team games become very inefficient due to the critical army sizes on the battlefield. So why deal with critical masses of these units when you can just do rush play?
All of this is balanced in 1v1 due to the fact that it is difficult for one player to field a strong enough army to defeat a base with various defender's advantages (small chokes, building placement 'sim city', workers, queens, creep speed, terran wall, forcefield, etc.). However when you have teammates, that critical army size is easily reached early on.
Kinda whining: I'm done playing as Protoss in 4v4 games. Reapers + lings are too mobile early game. Every single game either lings or reapers will show up, or both, for economy harrass. Protoss can't stop both, you either do a build to stop reapers or to stop lings. Shared base maps are okay, its really just the non-shared base maps. I switched to playing Terran and its so much easier. I'm not particularly good but I managed to get to #10 in my diamond group as Protoss, still working my way up as Terran tho.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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HOLY: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/966826/1/Pennoyer/
I thought about doing that at first... but playing thousands of games regardless of how short they are is quite a feat.
I thought about doing that at first... but playing thousands of games regardless of how short they are is quite a feat.
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Holy shit...how the hell did he play that many games? No life? No job? Lives in parent's basement?
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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It's probably a shared account - but still...
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Yeah, saw multiple players on a single character back in the day with FFXI thus why they had everything. However, even at 30 days with 100 games a day that's only 3000 games. We're talking 130+ games a day since release minimum. Holy shit doesn't even begin to describe it and to still be Bronze level?
Fake account or hacked account on B.net maybe?
Vengance_01
Supreme [H]ardness
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That's unreal. I still need to finish the campaign.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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Well the fact that he's in bronze isn't surprising. The plan is to tank games so you stay in bronze. Even if you 'tried hard' each game and made diamond you'd have a 50% win ratio (or close to it) after so many games - so why not just tank games and cheese the others for quick wins? That's how I'd do it if I wanted to get all the icons.
Like I said earlier, I seriously considered that when I first got the game, but decided not to.
Like I said earlier, I seriously considered that when I first got the game, but decided not to.
Personally I have been taking a break from ranked sc2 2v2 3v3 or 4v4
my teammates are all bronze and play like bronze and it is frustrating to deal with. I mean really in multi teams it is only fun if your teammates are in similar skill levels. I am in the plat 1v1 and in 3v3 4v4 too, I bring the whole team up to plat level and offer them suggestions but no one listens and just ride my coattails. The rest of the teammates are in bronze 1v1 but think they are better in multi of course it is not by my doing with wins against diamond and plat teams when I double up on the closest #2 player (that is the only way we win). I had to take a time out in ranked because I no longer can tolerate bronze players on my team building cannons in the first 2 mins of the game and turtle or build mass marg against voids, or even triple expand z the first 2 mins or even t FE the first 4 mins of the game. I can't explain it anymore and they don't listen. I said mass marines against rays they don't listen I say z push they build 5 cannons in their base. I said lift off cc with mass reapersx12 with speed they don't lift up. I said give me min and gas they don't listen and rage quit the last min with 6kmin and 5k gas. I say harass others with reapers they build nukes in 8 mins. I say upgrade to warp they say it costs too much. It is always gg to all when I double score of everyone. It is not that fun anymore. So taking a break from sc2 is a good thing, it get frustrating at times. Maybe it is time for some 1v1 again. I agree with intel it is better to try hard instead of just getting achievementswhoring.
my teammates are all bronze and play like bronze and it is frustrating to deal with. I mean really in multi teams it is only fun if your teammates are in similar skill levels. I am in the plat 1v1 and in 3v3 4v4 too, I bring the whole team up to plat level and offer them suggestions but no one listens and just ride my coattails. The rest of the teammates are in bronze 1v1 but think they are better in multi of course it is not by my doing with wins against diamond and plat teams when I double up on the closest #2 player (that is the only way we win). I had to take a time out in ranked because I no longer can tolerate bronze players on my team building cannons in the first 2 mins of the game and turtle or build mass marg against voids, or even triple expand z the first 2 mins or even t FE the first 4 mins of the game. I can't explain it anymore and they don't listen. I said mass marines against rays they don't listen I say z push they build 5 cannons in their base. I said lift off cc with mass reapersx12 with speed they don't lift up. I said give me min and gas they don't listen and rage quit the last min with 6kmin and 5k gas. I say harass others with reapers they build nukes in 8 mins. I say upgrade to warp they say it costs too much. It is always gg to all when I double score of everyone. It is not that fun anymore. So taking a break from sc2 is a good thing, it get frustrating at times. Maybe it is time for some 1v1 again. I agree with intel it is better to try hard instead of just getting achievementswhoring.
I haven't noticed much cheesing in 1v1 or 2v2 in gold. However 3v3+ ugh... early cheese strats. I swear thats all anyone does. And it usually works too because the maps are so large it can take your teammates forever to get what little they have there to fend it off.
Speaking of cheese strats... I can't check the link right now, but if Pennoyer is who I think it is, he just worker rushes every game and instaquits if its Terran since they can lift off. So it isn't really that much actual playtime. He/she just does it for the achievements and pics.
Speaking of cheese strats... I can't check the link right now, but if Pennoyer is who I think it is, he just worker rushes every game and instaquits if its Terran since they can lift off. So it isn't really that much actual playtime. He/she just does it for the achievements and pics.
I personally like to DPS but tanking is fun also.
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[
Supreme [H]ardness
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I read about him on the sc2 forums, it's a brilliant tactic if you really want those achieves ASAP. I'm personally not in any rush, I'm sure I'll be playing this game for years.
Nasty_Savage
Extremely [H]
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Forge first. Cannons in inverted triangle two around base, one behind mineral line...stops lings and reapers and then you can go rape the harassers for trying to smoke you by overbuilding pusstard units
lol
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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HAHAHA. I got banned from the official SC2 forums for this:
There was a thread about facebook integration and it warranted TWO blue responses. Yet they don't say a word about so many other aspects of the game that people are complaining about / are broken (no I'm not talking about Terran). OH WELL...
There was a thread about facebook integration and it warranted TWO blue responses. Yet they don't say a word about so many other aspects of the game that people are complaining about / are broken (no I'm not talking about Terran). OH WELL...
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Now that's an awesome ban.
While I doubt FB integration is more important to Blizzard then game balance/fixes it's pretty piss poor to make it appear that way especially on official forums.
Made another Protoss cry about Terran being OP this morning with the build I've been using. God I love this build and I get to play more when I get home tonight! T and P ownage FTMFW! My ass will be getting handed to me if I play any Zerg though. Maybe i'll Practice the 5 rax reaper build and see how that goes...
PornoSatan
2[H]4U
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That's really pathetic they would ban for that, but I'm not surprised.
limitedaccess
Supreme [H]ardness
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To be fair, in my opinion anyways, it is better to take their time and have a better response to balance issues, then rushing a knee jerk response/patch that ends up being worse or having its own problems.
I mean is there even any consensus type fixes yet from either the community in general or top level players? It isn't as easy as just saying nerf or boost everything across the board.
I mean is there even any consensus type fixes yet from either the community in general or top level players? It isn't as easy as just saying nerf or boost everything across the board.
Intel_Hydralisk
Supreme [H]ardness
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There's a ton of other issues besides balance.
D
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They can't promise to fix any issues and if anything the best they can say is "we'll look into it", because if they fail to keep any promise, the backlash is even worse than if they didn't post anything. Software developers have to be very, very careful with their words due to most customers being extremely fickle and quick to anger.
Yoshiyuki Blade
2[H]4U
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Yeah, its pretty typical with how they deal with (potential) problems, as it happens in WoW all the time. One week you'll see many replies about Warriors or Paladins and get players upset that their own class isn't being addressed in an "equal and fair" manner. That's just how they work I guess.
They'll keep a "hands off" approach to see where it ends up before determining whether the problem is real or just the immediate response from the playerbase. One month seems like a long time, but it's still pretty recent.
They'll keep a "hands off" approach to see where it ends up before determining whether the problem is real or just the immediate response from the playerbase. One month seems like a long time, but it's still pretty recent.
]|[ Mar']['in ]|[
Supreme [H]ardness
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so I'm kind of an achievement whore, there are quite a few achieves for co-op vs computer, and some other random things that would be difficult without a partner, so if anyone's into that sort of thing let me know