Starcraft II

[bexamous]

I don't know that being good at an FPS is something that flows naturally to most people. IIRC Fatality practices 8 hours a day to be as good as he is.

If you look at the top RTS and FPS players they all spend silly amounts of time practicing. I get what the guy is saying about moving from one FPS to another, but I do not think it is all that different as moving from one RTS to another. TLO is pretty impressive SC2 player and he didn't come from a SC1 background, he played some other RTS game. Hotkeys really only take a day or two to figure out, build orders too are not that complex. You can look up a build order, carrying it out though and adapting is something else.


IMO Why I've switched to FPS to RTS games, in the end, after playing a game, I can look at a RTS reply and spot a bunch of things I could have done better. After playing a FPS its so hard to learn from your mistakes and IMO at some point you just hit your limit. Seriously from age 18 to 28 my FPS skills have just been going downhill, my limit I should say has been going down. Practice enough and you hit your limit. RTS though, okay if you want to be the BEST you need to be 16 years old and spend 60 hours a week practicing, but if otherwise even with a fairly low APM if you make the right decisions you can be really good. There are some really awesome low APM players out there.

 

[KingSmoth]

This game is phenomenal. I've played a handful of campaign missions and challenges, but I've pretty much just been hooked on MP with some of my friends. I haven't played an RTS in years, and so far I'm pretty bad at SC2, but it is a lot of fun. One of my friends keeps whooping ass playing Protoss, so I've been trying various strategies and watching replays of every match. I finally handily annihilated him two matches ago(I always play Terran), so he came back with a new strategy and returned the favor.
It feels great to finally be PC gaming again, after years of consoles.

 

[reasons]

A SCV, or scan them , I assume he meant 'spot' not 'stop'.... although by spotting the baneling build you can also stop it .

Exactly. You see the baneling next, you make mauraders and then never bust your supply depos. They don't get into your base, so you decide to mass tech. Of course then the zerg will go hydra/roach, so you go air, etc. etc. Point being, to win as terran is to win at tech.

 

[BDV]

Hmn I'm stuck on "All in" on Brutal, the nydus version... All other missions are walk in the part. (Including the just beat Engine of Destruction)

>.> Screw Kerrigan portrait, I'm going into ladder

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

Hmn I'm stuck on "All in" on Brutal, the nydus version... All other missions are walk in the part. (Including the just beat Engine of Destruction)

>.> Screw Kerrigan portrait, I'm going into ladder

Planetary Fortress

When you say nydus version... do you mean you got rid of the nydus or you kept the nydus.

 

[huxley]

I think people take an ego hit when they are good at FPS and suck at RTS. I kinda suck at RTS and half because I am lazy and dont want to talk the effort and half because I dont have the natural skill. Micromanagement skills are a different breed, if you suck and cant beat every mission on brutal, dont get too sad lil bear.

 

[Dome]

I think people take an ego hit when they are good at FPS and suck at RTS. I kinda suck at RTS and half because I am lazy and dont want to talk the effort and half because I dont have the natural skill. Micromanagement skills are a different breed, if you suck and cant beat every mission on brutal, dont get too sad lil bear.

4/10 on the troll

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

Planetary Fortress

When you say nydus version... do you mean you got rid of the nydus or you kept the nydus.

Do you have to choose between that and Orbital Command? I love scanner sweep and mules, and used it to "cheese" a couple of hard difficulty achievements.

For "All In" Brutal, I put a bunch of those fire turrets in the back of my base, and loaded the front with bunkered marines, tanks, and psi disrupters. Used stim in bunkers on whichever side Kerrigan went to.

I think people take an ego hit when they are good at FPS and suck at RTS. I kinda suck at RTS and half because I am lazy and dont want to talk the effort and half because I dont have the natural skill. Micromanagement skills are a different breed, if you suck and cant beat every mission on brutal, dont get too sad lil bear.

I've seen more people openly admit that they suck at RTS than any other genre out there. The only game I've seen where people tend to give themselves too much credit for is WoW.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

Do you have to choose between that and Orbital Command? I love scanner sweep and mules, and used it to "cheese" a couple of hard difficulty achievements.

For "All In" Brutal, I put a bunch of those fire turrets in the back of my base, and loaded the front with bunkered marines, tanks, and psi disrupters. Used stim in bunkers on whichever side Kerrigan went to.



I've seen more people openly admit that they suck at RTS than any other genre out there. The only game I've seen where people tend to give themselves too much credit for is WoW.

You choose between planetary fortress and those flame thrower turrets. A planetary fortress with scv repair will literally tank anything since scv's repair 2x speed (I assume everyone got that upgrade...).

I went the 'air' path so I had upgraded turrets and vikings to take care of air while yamato cannon + thor cannon focus fire on kerrigan. Planetary fortress, bunkers, and tanks at the chokes.

I definitely agree about WOW. When I played there was this nagging feeling that regardless of how good my gear was or what rating I was in arenas, the game felt very shallow from a personal skill standpoint. I felt like I wasn't doing anything particularly special to get my gladiator title or top tier pve gear, yet there are people in that game who feel like they're extremely skilled or talented simply because of certain status symbols like gear or mounts.

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

You choose between planetary fortress and those flame thrower turrets. A planetary fortress with scv repair will literally tank anything since scv's repair 2x speed (I assume everyone got that upgrade...).

I went the 'air' path so I had upgraded turrets and vikings to take care of air while yamato cannon + thor cannon focus fire on kerrigan. Planetary fortress, bunkers, and tanks at the chokes.

I definitely agree about WOW. When I played there was this nagging feeling that regardless of how good my gear was or what rating I was in arenas, the game felt very shallow from a personal skill standpoint. I felt like I wasn't doing anything particularly special to get my gladiator title or top tier pve gear, yet there are people in that game who feel like they're extremely skilled or talented simply because of certain status symbols like gear or mounts.

I see. Well in multiplayer, you can only choose between Planetary Fortress or Orbital Command right? I went into single player with that expectation, even though I don't choose one or the other right on the spot. PF was a technology upgrade, while OC was an Armory upgrade, but I was still unsure so I kept skipping it over the PF.

What I meant about WoW is that most people I "hear" talk about it say that it was way too easy. But at the same time, roughly 99% of players I see in-game were bad or subpar. Unlike RTS where you can *really* get your ass whooped in multiplayer (and it makes sense that people admit they're bad on the forums), I have a hard time believing that magically all forum posters are as good (at WoW) as they claim to be . You seem to be a proficient player, so I can believe what you say. But for everyone else, not so much.

 

[petertew]

If you look at the top RTS and FPS players they all spend silly amounts of time practicing. I get what the guy is saying about moving from one FPS to another, but I do not think it is all that different as moving from one RTS to another. TLO is pretty impressive SC2 player and he didn't come from a SC1 background, he played some other RTS game. Hotkeys really only take a day or two to figure out, build orders too are not that complex. You can look up a build order, carrying it out though and adapting is something else.


IMO Why I've switched to FPS to RTS games, in the end, after playing a game, I can look at a RTS reply and spot a bunch of things I could have done better. After playing a FPS its so hard to learn from your mistakes and IMO at some point you just hit your limit. Seriously from age 18 to 28 my FPS skills have just been going downhill, my limit I should say has been going down. Practice enough and you hit your limit. RTS though, okay if you want to be the BEST you need to be 16 years old and spend 60 hours a week practicing, but if otherwise even with a fairly low APM if you make the right decisions you can be really good. There are some really awesome low APM players out there.

QFT. My Quake 1 skills were pretty impressive. Counterstrike was really good. And then It was all downhill. Now I sit on my couch and fire up the 360 to play FPS's and I generally stick to Mass Effect 1/2 for that .

 

[BDV]

You choose between planetary fortress and those flame thrower turrets. A planetary fortress with scv repair will literally tank anything since scv's repair 2x speed (I assume everyone got that upgrade...).

I killed the air platform.

You know what they say about assumptions, I for one did not chose 2x repair speed.

Zerg just burn through the planetary fortresses.... at around ~40% charge. I basically run out of minerals trying to repair them while building tanks/banshees.



Basically even with the Zerg psi emitter to slow everything down, I get overwhelmed. Can't produce units fast enough ( do double reactors, never got enough points to reach them)

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

I killed the air platform.

You know what they say about assumptions, I for one did not chose 2x repair speed.

Zerg just burn through the planetary fortresses.... at around ~40% charge. I basically run out of minerals trying to repair them while building tanks/banshees.



Basically even with the Zerg psi emitter to slow everything down, I get overwhelmed. Can't produce units fast enough ( do double reactors, never got enough points to reach them)

The 2x repair is an SCV upgrade at the armory. If you have enough money, you can go back and get it. Also make sure you have War Pig and Siege Breaker mercs out asap. Get like 5x bunkers set up in each front. Have 5+ SCVs ready to repair them too. Make sure at least 24 SCVs are gathering minerals.

Double reactors was pretty much a must for me ! (to be more accurate, the tech lab + reactor addon) I even had 2x Barracks and Factories constantly pumping out Marines and Tanks. I don't see how you couldn't have enough points, unless you totally skipped all the Protoss missions. You should have had way more than enough by now.

The rest is all about unit/structure placement I guess. Tanks are great on the plateau with the artifact, for example.

 

[umcpgrad]

so anyways are you all having matchmaking issues?
I mean my team on 4v4 went 5-0 in the practice rounds
then we got placed in bronze
and for the past 5 nights
we just get matched up with only and diamond and plat leagues
that is retarded
we are on 50%

 

[Blubikins]

4/10 on the troll

No way real talk!

 

[canon.tk]

I'm going to guess it's your RAM since SC2 takes up 2 GB by itself.


SC2 has been out for what, a week? You think everyone on bnet are masters of years of studious practice in a game that's been out for a week? Don't pull the SC1 stuff because I stopped playing SC1 years ago and I was never that great at it (in pvp anyway since all I did was customs and comp stomp), but now I'm in Diamond in 1v1 and 2v2 in SC2. I have a friend who NEVER played any RTS except for a little bit of age of empires and he got into platinum in beta (back when platinum was the highest division) with me in 2v2. He's also got most of the missions complete on brutal and gold on the challenges etc. So it's by no means a task that takes 'years'.

Getting the achievement to unlock the "Dark Voice" profile avatar might take a while. 1000 1v1 wins on each race.

 

[petertew]

Getting the achievement to unlock the "Dark Voice" profile avatar might take a while. 1000 1v1 wins on each race.

You know someone in South Korea is about a week away from earning that achievement.

 

[Wendig0]

Yeah and I bet someone in the US is about a half a week away from that achievement.

 

[reasons]

so anyways are you all having matchmaking issues?
I mean my team on 4v4 went 5-0 in the practice rounds
then we got placed in bronze
and for the past 5 nights
we just get matched up with only and diamond and plat leagues
that is retarded
we are on 50%

While I like to think I'm in it for the gameplay, this is annoying. I got put into bronze for 1v1 (which I probably deserved as I hadn't touched a RTS in forever) but moved onto a ten game streak with all opponents favored, then lost one and am still bronze.

 

[Flexion]

You know someone in South Korea is about a week away from earning that achievement.

Yeah and I bet someone in the US is about a half a week away from that achievement.

I ain't Korean, so this isn't a pride post. But Wendig, you really should google about Koreans and Starcraft the level of fanaticism and competition in the country dedicated to Starcraft is absolutely insane. A kid died from playing the original Starcraft 3 days non-stop without eating or drinking. Just food for thought.

 

[krameriffic]

While I like to think I'm in it for the gameplay, this is annoying. I got put into bronze for 1v1 (which I probably deserved as I hadn't touched a RTS in forever) but moved onto a ten game streak with all opponents favored, then lost one and am still bronze.

Yeah I've just been playing the campaign, custom maps and AI skirmishes until I consider myself ready to play actual SC2. Otherwise I know I'll be placed in the noob league and will be emasculated and take a giant self-esteem hit.

 

[Flexion]

The issue I take with RTS gaming is that "being good at it" is not as universal a concept as, say, being good at an FPS. It's too concrete a concept with no room for fluidity or humanity. Being good at an RTS requires machine-like precision and speed. Being good at an FPS requires something different, a certain innate kind of talent, and it passes on easily from game to game. An RTS just takes years of practice, and I have no patience for learning hotkeys and build orders and counter-strategies and BS micromanagement. I want my play to flow naturally, not be some product of studious knowledge.

Well, although I can identify with your comments, it's really not that hard, there are alot of tricks, and for me it's about as difficult as using windows.

Ever FPS also has a learning curve. Granted you can go "guns a blazin' Rambo" style, but you have to learn how to switch weapons and almost every game has different keys for grenades and flashbangs.

Two things to help out. If you don't want to spend a crazy amount of time micro managing your batallions, you can select a group of them and press Crtl+(any # key) and then every time you press whatever number it'll automatically select that group of soldiers and you can right clck to move them, attack, etc.

Also another thning that helps in Starcraft is the press the "A" key on the general area you want to attack and allow the computer to pick the closest pertinent target. Otherwise, if you have smaller units like SCVs accompanying your batallion, the enemy normally kills those if you're attacking a particular struction or something. It's nerve wracking to tell every single unit what to do.

 

[Kaldskryke]

Hey, I'm trying to get the "Hurry Up It's Raid Night" achievement and I have some questions about how it calculates the total game time. Does anyone else here have this achievement yet?

1) If I replay a mission in the Archives and get a faster time on a mission, does that help me, or does it add both new and old mission times together?
2) If I play more than 19 missions (minimum required to beat the game), are those missions counted towards the total time or are they omitted?

basically, I want to know for sure whether using the Archives to drop my times will help me or if I should bite the bullet and start a new campaign specifically for getting this achievement (and try not to replay missions)

 

[Kaldskryke]

I ain't Korean, so this isn't a pride post. But Wendig, you really should google about Koreans and Starcraft the level of fanaticism and competition in the country dedicated to Starcraft is absolutely insane. A kid died from playing the original Starcraft 3 days non-stop without eating or drinking. Just food for thought.

See, I just don't get that. When I game I'm always taking breaks for snacks and drinks - I know it's not healthy but I've never been so engrossed in a game that I couldn't spare 30 seconds to get something from the fridge...

 

[bezant]

What's new in that game since the last one?

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

so anyways are you all having matchmaking issues?
I mean my team on 4v4 went 5-0 in the practice rounds
then we got placed in bronze
and for the past 5 nights
we just get matched up with only and diamond and plat leagues
that is retarded
we are on 50%

Keep playing if you're being matched against diamond / plat players. It will re-evaluate your league very soon and you'll likely be placed in plat or diamond if you're going 50/50 against them (yes it's possible to skip leagues entirely).

All that means is your MMR (which is hidden) is close to diamond / plat, and that's all that matters. Where you place in is irrelevant except for your first 5 games.

 

[Wendig0]

I ain't Korean, so this isn't a pride post. But Wendig, you really should google about Koreans and Starcraft the level of fanaticism and competition in the country dedicated to Starcraft is absolutely insane. A kid died from playing the original Starcraft 3 days non-stop without eating or drinking. Just food for thought.

Yes, I know I read about that korean's death; it's crazy how far they'll go . Oh, and It's Wendig0 btw.

 

[Neb]

edit: nvm, it's been taken care of.

 

[Kainzo]

The achievement system is so dull, I fail to realize how its even remotely fun to obtain all of the achievements.

 

[petertew]

The achievement system is so dull, I fail to realize how its even remotely fun to obtain all of the achievements.

I agree. Why doesn't Blizzard just give you access to all the portraits and decals so you can customize the game you just spent $60 on? You could still have the achievements.

 

[umcpgrad]

While I like to think I'm in it for the gameplay, this is annoying. I got put into bronze for 1v1 (which I probably deserved as I hadn't touched a RTS in forever) but moved onto a ten game streak with all opponents favored, then lost one and am still bronze.

Yeah we averaged about 10 games a night.. we were having a 8 games losing streak against diamond/plat players 2 days ago it seems like all the top diamond/plat players cheeze then again it is our fault for not know EVERY inch of the map some people can actually average 50-60 games a day but anyways we HAVE NOT played against anyone in bronze, silver, gold yet. Of course we are NEVER favored against plat/dia leagues. So I am wondering are there even bronze, silver, gold leagues? hahahah it is kind of frustrating to be placed this low with some what a "great" record. It just feels like we are getting kicked down over and over and over or all the noobs on our levels are not playing anymore because of the stupid matchmaking. On the side note again we won 6 games in a roll again diamond/ plat players we are now only #1 in our gold. Hope coming?

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

The achievement system is so dull, I fail to realize how its even remotely fun to obtain all of the achievements.

I got them all except for the win 250,500, 1000, etc. game ones.

Yeah we averaged about 10 games a night.. we were having a 8 games losing streak against diamond/plat players 2 days ago it seems like all the top diamond/plat players cheeze then again it is our fault for not know EVERY inch of the map some people can actually average 50-60 games a day but anyways we HAVE NOT played against anyone in bronze, silver, gold yet. Of course we are NEVER favored against plat/dia leagues. So I am wondering are there even bronze, silver, gold leagues? hahahah it is kind of frustrating to be placed this low with some what a "great" record. It just feels like we are getting kicked down over and over and over or all the noobs on our levels are not playing anymore because of the stupid matchmaking. On the side note again we won 6 games in a roll again diamond/ plat players we are now only #1 in our gold. Hope coming?

It takes roughly 30 games for your first re-evaluation.

 

[umcpgrad]

Keep playing if you're being matched against diamond / plat players. It will re-evaluate your league very soon and you'll likely be placed in plat or diamond if you're going 50/50 against them (yes it's possible to skip leagues entirely).

All that means is your MMR (which is hidden) is close to diamond / plat, and that's all that matters. Where you place in is irrelevant except for your first 5 games.

quite frustrating actually and when we lose to plat/ dia players we get around -10 pts and when we win about 30-40 pts gained then again why minus pts against diamond/ plats AREN'T we suppose to lose to them since WE are in bronze? we are moving up slowly but at this pace it will be a year until we get to dia hahah moving on up moving on up and somehow my teammates got rushed pretty badly by some bronze team and we got -30 wtf yay yay 4zs lingspeeds yay

 

[umcpgrad]

I got them all except for the win 250,500, 1000, etc. game ones.


It takes roughly 30 games for your first re-evaluation.

yup we bolted to #1 gold now finally, and we only win when I double up on everyone's scores and also when we win that is when all my two worst buddies think they are great players now

 

[BDV]

Funny thing I noticed on AT vs RT.

Even if RT has platinum/gold players and AT is all silver. AT will still show as a favored team. Interesting.

It sucks playing against AT on RT though.

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

Funny thing I noticed on AT vs RT.

Even if RT has platinum/gold players and AT is all silver. AT will still show as a favored team. Interesting.

It sucks playing against AT on RT though.

Whether or not a team is favored is based on displayed vs. MMR and has nothing to do with leagues.

Here's a little primer:

You have two different ratings on ladder, your displayed rating (the points) and your MMR (which is hidden). Your displayed points start 0 but your MMR fluctuates wildly at the start based on who you beat / lose to.

If you're winning more than you lose at the start your MMR will likely be much HIGHER than your displayed rating. When the game determines 'favor', it compares your displayed rating to your opponent's MMR. If both of you are gold/plat or higher, then it's VERY likely that your displayed is LOWER than your opponent's MMR and VICE VERSA - which is the interesting part. Literally it creates a scenario where BOTH players / teams are 'favored'.

This is why when you win you may gain a butt load of points but your opponent also doesn't lose that much.

Over TIME, both ratings converge to one another. This is also justification for the existence of a bonus pool. The bonus pool only affects your displayed rating and NOT your MMR. Hence even with a bonus pool, your MMR doesn't get inflated and if your displayed gets inflated above your MMR it'll simply take larger hits from losses and it will still even out with your displayed.

Once 'favored' and stuff stop showing up as often it means your displayed is finally starting to approach your MMR.

Hey, I'm trying to get the "Hurry Up It's Raid Night" achievement and I have some questions about how it calculates the total game time. Does anyone else here have this achievement yet?

1) If I replay a mission in the Archives and get a faster time on a mission, does that help me, or does it add both new and old mission times together?
2) If I play more than 19 missions (minimum required to beat the game), are those missions counted towards the total time or are they omitted?

basically, I want to know for sure whether using the Archives to drop my times will help me or if I should bite the bullet and start a new campaign specifically for getting this achievement (and try not to replay missions)

I have the achievement but I'm not certain about the answers to your questions. I think all you need to do is replay the missions until you get a better overall time. What I did was start a new campaign since I wanted to make some armory / research changes to better suit a brutal last mission. I breezed through it on normal and did 26 missions in under 8 hours total and got the achievement.

 

[Yoshiyuki Blade]

Hey, I'm trying to get the "Hurry Up It's Raid Night" achievement and I have some questions about how it calculates the total game time. Does anyone else here have this achievement yet?

1) If I replay a mission in the Archives and get a faster time on a mission, does that help me, or does it add both new and old mission times together?
2) If I play more than 19 missions (minimum required to beat the game), are those missions counted towards the total time or are they omitted?

basically, I want to know for sure whether using the Archives to drop my times will help me or if I should bite the bullet and start a new campaign specifically for getting this achievement (and try not to replay missions)

It's hard to say, but the safest way is to save your current game to a more permanent file, and start over fresh. It's not like the game is any easier then you go back to play the older missions. I got the achievement overnight with 22 missions played (did a few extra so I could get all the tech upgrades). Probably clocked in about 5-6 hours total, so there was plenty of time.

 

[BDV]

Ladder is so much more fun than single player

Maybe later when I'm bored i'll go back and finish it... but... meh.

 

[umcpgrad]

so anyways got done playing placement matches with a friend who is new and just installed the game today he is pretty new with rts... I kind of mad all 5 placement matches they were all diamond/plat players we went 0-5.. I am not going to say I am great or anything like that during beta I was plat 1v1 7 diamond 2v2... but goodness.. is everyone diamond or plat on ladder or something???? I have played ladder for a week now I have not gotten matched up with bronze, silver, gold YET

 

[Intel_Hydralisk]

so anyways got done playing placement matches with a friend who is new and just installed the game today he is pretty new with rts... I kind of mad all 5 placement matches they were all diamond/plat players we went 0-5.. I am not going to say I am great or anything like that during beta I was plat 1v1 7 diamond 2v2... but goodness.. is everyone diamond or plat on ladder or something???? I have played ladder for a week now I have not gotten matched up with bronze, silver, gold YET

It's technically impossible for people to be 'all diamond / plat'. Think about it for a second. For very win there's a loss. The divisions don't have an absolute skill level, it's all relative. The player distribution will literally never change regardless of what the overall skill level is. If someone gets beat a lot, they get put in a lower division and vice versa.