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Starcraft 2 Beta

song said:
played zerg for the first time and got destroyed by protoss who were cloaked and swarmed my base. I couldn't even defend my base as I did not know how to counter them. What units were these? also how do I detect stealth attacks with each race?

I am a total noob to SC2 and my WR is like 20% so I am trying to get better. I am more of a turtle and like amassing a huge army before I attack. I notice 90% of the people try to rush me and I don't survive the first wave of like 4 troops lol.

I also get pissed off when people send like one worker unit over to spy on me 30 seconds into the game
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In general every race has one static defense unit that detects stealth and one mobile unit that detects stealth. Although, terran has 2 additional ways to reveal stealth (EMP and comsat).

Stealth attacks are generally considered harass techniques. The way to counter is to basically scout, scout, and scout some more. Once you get more familiar with the units it becomes clear if they're going to make that stealth unit based on what buildings they have in their base. As a zerg it isn't too hard to scout especially with overlords. That's also why people send workers into your base. There are various rush / cheese techniques (7 pool, reaper rush, double gateway chrono boost zealot rush, etc.) that you MUST respond to early.

If you can't survive early attacks it's probably because of your build order. Just watch some replays and mimick someone else's build order. A build order is like a chess opening. It's something that you should have down and know how to branch out into various types of play from there based on what your opponent does.
 
Jutsu said:
Lol, my friend and I just did our 2v2 placements last night for fun, we both play toss, so every game we opened up with 2 a gate zealots. We weren't really trying and we took our first 4 games that way with heavy aggression/cheese. Our last game turned in to a good macro game but I don't see how anyone is ever going to beat XX v PP when we have combined 16 warpgates down. I went dual robo and pumped colossus and he went dual stargate and got a voidray and phoenix mix. It turned quickly into a slaughter and our opponents could not keep up. The best part was the final push I had 18 sentries and hallucinated a soooo many colossus, our opponents reactions were priceless.
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the idea is that a good zerg / terran / whatever mix would keep you from ever progressing to 16 warpgates and keep pressure on. most players however, cannot. Ive found that many players in 2v2 want to hang back much too long, and then it becomes a battle of who teched smartest and has the most units. 2v2 seems to be much more standoffish than most 1v1 matches ...
 
Oh yeah, and especially on maps like Twilight Fortress where you and your partner share a base. I had one game where may partner and I just spammed lings and lots and attacked when we both got our speed upgrade. Our opponents were teching and had no army at all (this is plat 20ish).
 
thisperishedmin said:
the idea is that a good zerg / terran / whatever mix would keep you from ever progressing to 16 warpgates and keep pressure on. most players however, cannot. Ive found that many players in 2v2 want to hang back much too long, and then it becomes a battle of who teched smartest and has the most units. 2v2 seems to be much more standoffish than most 1v1 matches ...
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In some ways maybe. I find that I often have an army of 150 or more in 1v1, but almost never that large in 2v2. I'm currently 18th in my crappy 1v1 plat division and I have 4 2v2 platinum teams including RT. Maybe my bad opponents in 1v1 just love to see if they can outmacro a zerg - fail. The only map that becomes standoffish in 2v2 is twilight fortress for obvious reasons.

EDIT: By the way.. anyone else think that the SCV looks like the little head in tengen toppa gurren lagann ??
 
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Intel_Hydralisk said:
EDIT: By the way.. anyone else think that the SCV looks like the little head in tengen toppa gurren lagann ??
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Lol I just looked at a pic of it and yes it kinda does. Now its we just need to get it to jump on top of a Thor lol....
 
So I was experimenting with my friends yesterday in a 1 vs 2 (Z v PP) match and found a hilarious zerg tactic: nydus drops. Don't know if it's viable in competitive play, but it was fun as hell last night.

Haven't seen this tactic used in replays, but as the name suggests, you nydus troops into/near an enemy base. First I'd have to send changlings to scout and provide LOS for a nydus worm to pop up. Then I used mostly banelings and hydras to wreak havoc, then jump back into the nydus before his defense scrambles. His defense show up, destroy the worm just in time for another worm to pop out somewhere else, then I do it all over again.

Also works as a decent defense as all the troops in the nydus can be recalled anywhere there's a worm. Simply drop a nydus worm at every expansion and I've got a quick reaction force of hydras that can be anywhere in a moments' notice.
 
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SPARTAN VI said:
So I was experimenting with my friends yesterday in a 1 vs 2 (Z v PP) match and found a hilarious zerg tactic: nydus drops. Don't know if it's viable in competitive play, but it was fun as hell last night.

Haven't seen this tactic used in replays, but as the name suggests, you nydus troops into/near an enemy base. First I'd have to send changlings to scout and provide LOS for a nydus worm to pop up. Then I used mostly banelings and hydras to wreak havoc, then jump back into the nydus before his defense scrambles. His defense show up, destroy the worm just in time for another worm to pop out somewhere else, then I do it all over again.

Also works as a decent defense as all the troops in the nydus can be recalled anywhere there's a worm. Simply drop a nydus worm at every expansion and I've got a quick reaction force of hydras that can be anywhere in a moments' notice.
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Sometimes I'm forced to at least attempt a nydus against some terran who end up holing themselves in with siege tanks. If it fails, I go to brood lords...

I think most people are caught unaware by the nydus network because a lot of people don't even know how it works. All you need is sight of the target location to build the worm and it only takes 20 seconds. On some maps there's even a convenient little LOS blocker inside every spawn...
 
Speaking of nydus worms... have any of you seen HDstarcraft's mass queen strategy? It's pretty comedic.
 
I'm always too slow for the nydus to work, and the first time i used it I didn't realize it didn't function like the old nydus canal worked.... so all my units died
 
TheCowOfNow said:
I'm always too slow for the nydus to work, and the first time i used it I didn't realize it didn't function like the old nydus canal worked.... so all my units died
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How? Did you leave them in there? You wont lose the units if the worm is destroyed, IIRC, the entire nydus network might have to be destroyed first.
 
Kaldskryke said:
Speaking of nydus worms... have any of you seen HDstarcraft's mass queen strategy? It's pretty comedic.
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LOL how many hatches are needed to make this work?


In regards to using a changeling for spawning the nydus. You can use an ovie as well if your opponent is blocking the choke. You could also have more then one for 2v2. Wait for the ally to get to the base you're attacking and move to his base via nydus when he arrives
 
darkhunter139 said:
I hate the Nydus worm strategy, zerg has got me with that several times!
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Had somebody try it on me yesterday for the first time. They didn't realize that I saw them move their army into the nydus. So I moved my secondary army (primary was already shredding their base) into place. They walked right into tanks going siege and MMM with Stim. It was fun...well for me it was. ;)
 
darkhunter139 said:
I hate the Nydus worm strategy, zerg has got me with that several times!
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It isn't that hard to counter anymore. The time from hearing it to when it can start dumping out units has been increased twice over the course of the beta. It is fearful sounding and stuff but it isn't nearly as stealth as it used to be, not compared to warp prism or medivac drops which get no warning outside of visual.
 
Serpico said:
It isn't that hard to counter anymore. The time from hearing it to when it can start dumping out units has been increased twice over the course of the beta. It is fearful sounding and stuff but it isn't nearly as stealth as it used to be, not compared to warp prism or medivac drops which get no warning outside of visual.
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Well that sucks. They drop the overlords ability to carry and pretty much make zerg rely on the new revamped nydus, but it's not as effective offensively?

Thematically, I love the new nydus system. Fits the the Zerg perfectly.
 
Had a Zerg guy open up half a dozen worms and use them to transfer his huge army between expansions.

Was fairly effective, until I blasted the worms.
 
One of my favorite units, other than Infestor, has to be the Zerg Changling. Such a cool scout unit. People see them coming from a mile away and they're particularly useless when bases are blocked off, yes, but... it's just incredibly fun to mess with my friends who would have a pair of zealots surrounded by 20+ changlings.

Surprise! You had this horde of Zealots and didn't even know it!
 
SPARTAN VI said:
Well that sucks. They drop the overlords ability to carry and pretty much make zerg rely on the new revamped nydus, but it's not as effective offensively?

Thematically, I love the new nydus system. Fits the the Zerg perfectly.
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You obviously havent tried baneling drops, they're pretty ridiculous.\


Also jutsu, you need more 2's partners mine don't play much anymore, they werej ust friends. I'm rank 7 Platinum Terran!!
 
Played my first game today.

Are the load times always so long? everybody's progress bar was going very slow.
 
Druneau said:
Played my first game today.

Are the load times always so long? everybody's progress bar was going very slow.
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The first load seems to take a relatively long time everytime you boot up the game. After that the loads are pretty quick.
 
I can use the worm still even with the nerf. Its all all bout creating a little distraction and your in. Also on some maps you can get an easy drop unless your opponent is watching his main like a hawk.
 
jrel209 said:
You obviously havent tried baneling drops, they're pretty ridiculous.\


Also jutsu, you need more 2's partners mine don't play much anymore, they werej ust friends. I'm rank 7 Platinum Terran!!
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Actually, all this talk about nydus started with my post about baneling nydus drops. :p
 
SPARTAN VI said:
One of my favorite units, other than Infestor, has to be the Zerg Changling. Such a cool scout unit. People see them coming from a mile away and they're particularly useless when bases are blocked off, yes, but... it's just incredibly fun to mess with my friends who would have a pair of zealots surrounded by 20+ changlings.

Surprise! You had this horde of Zealots and didn't even know it!
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I saw a replay where a guy lets a changeling into his base because he thought his marine spawned outside of it.:eek:
 
God I love beating cheese players.


Stupid protoss canon rush, had to use workers to take out the pylon, then tried to cheese easy win by steam rolling my base with voidrays. Ok, less cheesy, but still, knew his type so made a bunch of marines.


It is an interesting thing, thors are pretty useful early game to fend off early air harass, people think they are only solid against mutas, and not so much against void rays, which is true, if it was rays against thors, but thor + marines = be pelted from the longer range air attack of the thor while taking marines out, or move in for the kill, making it easier for the marines to attack the rays and not have the protoss out range the whole battle.

A thor in the mix of marines early on prevents the range cheese tactics.
 
tybert7 said:
It is an interesting thing, thors are pretty useful early game to fend off early air harass, people think they are only solid against mutas, and not so much against void rays, which is true, if it was rays against thors, but thor + marines = be pelted from the longer range air attack of the thor while taking marines out, or move in for the kill, making it easier for the marines to attack the rays and not have the protoss out range the whole battle.

A thor in the mix of marines early on prevents the range cheese tactics.
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Early Thors are also great for harass with a drop ship. If drop one behind their mineral line, and que-attack the workers you can just watch them instantly melt. Keep a SCV close by to repair it and just continually harass or fly in and out to keep pressure on your opponent and keep them confined to their base.
 
I'm not sure if this has been discussed here or not as a strategy (haven't read all 70+ pages of this thread) but I've started blocking players vespene geysers at the outset of games as I'm scouting.

This tactic has been working pretty well for me on the lower tiers of games in 1v1 (bronze league ATM, soon to be silver) and it has worked well in gold/platinum tiered 2v2 games as well.

The tactic has a twofold effect on the other player. First, it really messes with their economy. For 150 minerals I keep them from harvesting gas for a while and I usually win the tech race with whoever I'm playing against.

Second, it often forces players to kill the assimilator rather than rush me, and this buys me plenty of time to set up shop with a pylon and cannon and start warping guys in right outside their base. Often I do this in their natural to block expansion. This also frees me up to focus on expansion while they deal with my mini base/army.

The other benefit is that I have two points of observation in their base for continued scouting until they kill the buildings, and assimilators are pretty robust.

Last night, just before getting disconnected again (freaking patch 11 is killing me), a guy writes to me after I dropped two assimilators on him and says, "What are you doing? I won't be able to harvest gas if you build those assimilators there."
 
petertew said:
Last night, just before getting disconnected again (freaking patch 11 is killing me), a guy writes to me after I dropped two assimilators on him and says, "What are you doing? I won't be able to harvest gas if you build those assimilators there."
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Haha, "why are you attacking my base? I wont be able to win the game if I lose." :D
 
petertew said:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed here or not as a strategy (haven't read all 70+ pages of this thread) but I've started blocking players vespene geysers at the outset of games as I'm scouting.

This tactic has been working pretty well for me on the lower tiers of games in 1v1 (bronze league ATM, soon to be silver) and it has worked well in gold/platinum tiered 2v2 games as well.

The tactic has a twofold effect on the other player. First, it really messes with their economy. For 150 minerals I keep them from harvesting gas for a while and I usually win the tech race with whoever I'm playing against.

Second, it often forces players to kill the assimilator rather than rush me, and this buys me plenty of time to set up shop with a pylon and cannon and start warping guys in right outside their base. Often I do this in their natural to block expansion. This also frees me up to focus on expansion while they deal with my mini base/army.

The other benefit is that I have two points of observation in their base for continued scouting until they kill the buildings, and assimilators are pretty robust.

Last night, just before getting disconnected again (freaking patch 11 is killing me), a guy writes to me after I dropped two assimilators on him and says, "What are you doing? I won't be able to harvest gas if you build those assimilators there."
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It's a starcraft 1 trick... it's partly the reason there's 2 geysers now. In SC1 there was only 1 geyser and blocking it was pretty big.

I don't mind it at all. As a zerg player I have no interest in rushing. In the early game I'm setting up my expansion anyway and don't really have the drone count to drop down two geysers, so I welcome the blatant statement that "I'm using minerals on two geysers so don't expect me to zealot rush you".
 
Intel_Hydralisk said:
It's a starcraft 1 trick... it's partly the reason there's 2 geysers now. In SC1 there was only 1 geyser and blocking it was pretty big.

I don't mind it at all. As a zerg player I have no interest in rushing. In the early game I'm setting up my expansion anyway and don't really have the drone count to drop down two geysers, so I welcome the blatant statement that "I'm using minerals on two geysers so don't expect me to zealot rush you".
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Yeah, that is a real risk because I can't produce units very fast. Maybe when I get up into the gold and plat leagues this tactic won't work anymore. It definitely leaves me open to being countered early, but crono boost has been helpful in staving off some of the counters I've experienced. The 150 minerals I expend seems to do other plays more harm in delaying their gas mining than it does me good if used for another gate or cannon or cyb core.

Obviously, no strat is without counters/risk.
 
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