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Starcraft 2 Beta

mas said:
you're kidding right? this is an ongoing tactic of every match worth playing, and the first thing you should ever learn to counter. you'd better stock up on lube if you're going to get upset over this kind of strategy, any good player would take the first chance possible to fuck with your economy, and if you're vulnerable from the beginning then that's when it's going to happen.
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I've always been fail at RTS and this is a big part of the reason. I agree that it's a viable tactic, but I'm just sooo bad at dealing with it. I've never played SC btw (excited about this one), but I believe this applies to any RTS.

To me, the first 2-5 minutes of the game seem to be a match of rock-paper-scissors. It's just really hard for me to make an educated decision when I have no idea what my opponent is doing, and by the time I'm able to do any scouting, its already too late to adapt to their strat. Examples:

If they go all out rush or die, taking the middle road as far as rush defense often means losing, since they've been focusing 100% on offense production for the first 2 minutes while you've been doing 25%-50% defense.

If they go 0% offense, the middle road will cause you to fall behind with your economy.

If they send over 1 guy to harass, the middle road could work out.

Any way I think of planning an early game defense without any knowledge of what the enemy is doing, it turns into 2/3 I lose, or at least fall behind. This is of course ignoring the option of resorting to early game offense myself, but that really doesn't solve my dilema, it only makes it more complicated. For you vets, how do high level players plan out the initial stages of the game? I don't like the thought that guessing wrong, when playing someone of relatively equal skill, will lead to a loss.
 
Zorachus said:
Any EYEFINITY owners or Matrox TH2G playing the beta ? How does it play across triple screens ?
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it'll scale across all 3 screens but it does not show additional viewing area over what's possible on 1 screen

regarding scouting, you're supposed to send a SCV/drone/probe early on (I'd guess some time between the 1 min to 2 min mark) to find the enemy base and look at what he's building. then your build order will depend on what you see he's doing in his base. Starcraft has always been a game about who has the better intel. of course, you'll still need to develop micro and macro skills to take advantage of that intel though.
 
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Grumble Grumble... Ahhhh! WHERE'S MY KEY BLIZZARD!!!!!! Sorry I'm grumpy in the morning when I check my email! :)
 
So Blizzard sent be an invitation. I was surprised though, but probably they did because I had blizzard account.

Tried the game and it rocks.
 
Crash250f said:
I've always been fail at RTS and this is a big part of the reason. I agree that it's a viable tactic, but I'm just sooo bad at dealing with it. I've never played SC btw (excited about this one), but I believe this applies to any RTS.

To me, the first 2-5 minutes of the game seem to be a match of rock-paper-scissors. It's just really hard for me to make an educated decision when I have no idea what my opponent is doing, and by the time I'm able to do any scouting, its already too late to adapt to their strat. Examples:

If they go all out rush or die, taking the middle road as far as rush defense often means losing, since they've been focusing 100% on offense production for the first 2 minutes while you've been doing 25%-50% defense.

If they go 0% offense, the middle road will cause you to fall behind with your economy.

If they send over 1 guy to harass, the middle road could work out.

Any way I think of planning an early game defense without any knowledge of what the enemy is doing, it turns into 2/3 I lose, or at least fall behind. This is of course ignoring the option of resorting to early game offense myself, but that really doesn't solve my dilema, it only makes it more complicated. For you vets, how do high level players plan out the initial stages of the game? I don't like the thought that guessing wrong, when playing someone of relatively equal skill, will lead to a loss.
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Your offense is your defense. Of any RTS i have ever played it has always been like this. Most defensive structures are obsolete except in certain circumstances.

As you are building up an offensive army use it to protect yourself before using it to attack the enemy.

the only time I build defensive structures is to protect the minerals and even then its only 1 maybe 2 at the max and always in a strong spot. Trying to set up a choke point isnt the best idea IMO. If they get around it then you are fucked. If that defense is waiting in your base near important structures then any fight you get into inside your base can be moved to where your defense is and will have your entire army helping instead of splitting stuff up.
 
LOL, its kinda funny reading what you guys post, kinda nerdy haha. All in good fun though and I'm sure all of you are excited about the game.
 
I suck BAD in RTS in general, and SC2 is no different.

I do really look forward to getting my hands on the Galaxy Editor though.
 
Catsonar said:
LOL, its kinda funny reading what you guys post, kinda nerdy haha. All in good fun though and I'm sure all of you are excited about the game.
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Haha, thanks man we are all VERY excited about the game! The one thing that is good about me not getting a key is that it means they're not choosing users based on how many of their products they own or when they opted in. I own every game and opted in the first day and didn't get in. But a lot of people signed up late with almost no games and got in, so at least it's a lottery in the purest form.


I'm loving replays and I get the feeling once I learn the hot keys I'll be ready to start playing against some tough players. I'm REALLY REALLY excited! I have almost all of the units stats memorized and if you look through the tech tree and units in the counters for each. I love that massive units can be hit by Anti-Air and are a pretty cool counter to some Massive units. I have a TON of build orders memorized and what each of the buildings enables you to build/upgrade. I'm SOOO ready to play!
 
My brother kicked my ass like 4 times in a row. I was toss and he was terran. Man, I gotta work on my skills. O_O
 
Decko87 said:
I love that massive units can be hit by Anti-Air and are a pretty cool counter to some Massive units.
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What what? Like the Titans (big walker things) and Striders can be hit by AA?

People are WAAAAY less aggressive in 2v2, I like it a little more. I'm ok, but not good enough for the kickass 1v1'ers. Is 3v3 and 4v4 available in the beta?
 
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pigwalk said:
What what? Like the Titans (big walker things) and Striders can be hit by AA?

People are WAAAAY less aggressive in 2v2, I like it a little more. I'm ok, but not good enough for the kickass 1v1'ers. Is 3v3 and 4v4 available in the beta?
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there's a 1v1 and 2v2 ladder. FFA via custom games. no 3v3 or 4v4 because there aren't any maps that support a player count above 4.
 
pigwalk said:
What what? Like the Titans (big walker things) and Striders can be hit by AA?

People are WAAAAY less aggressive in 2v2, I like it a little more. I'm ok, but not good enough for the kickass 1v1'ers. Is 3v3 and 4v4 available in the beta?
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Really? I'm surprised, so far I've seen lots of rushing in 2v2. Same thing as back in Brood Wars, teammates get a quick rush build up and double team one guy.
 
2v2 is always a PITA if you have an ally that likes to turtle. I don't have SC beta yet, but in WC3 FT you have always deal with allies wasting their TP early if they decide not to rush. As stated earlier, It becomes a ping pong match because the opposing team is either at your base or your allies .If there are any decent SC beta or WC3 players that are up for AT. Send me a PM . 10 min no rush scrubs that are hoping to reach tier 3 need not apply ;)
 
Is it just me or zealots are too slow? Marine solders came and killed all my zealots by running. Zealots were unable to reach them.
 
Yup, especially since the terrans and zerg are both so mobile with stimpacks and zergling speed upgrades.
 
NooOOoOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! It sounds like all of the beta invites have been sent out, so if you don't get in that's pretty much it.
 
Decko87 said:
NooOOoOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! It sounds like all of the beta invites have been sent out, so if you don't get in that's pretty much it.
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Where did you read this?

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this... Beta hasn't even been going for a month. They plan a 3-5 month beta. I doubt they would invite everybody within the first three weeks, but rather selecting opt-ins according to what configurations they are seeing potential problems with throughout.
 
Decko87 said:
NooOOoOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! It sounds like all of the beta invites have been sent out, so if you don't get in that's pretty much it.
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Where did you read this? Then again, there are roughly 7000 people online at the moment, maybe that's the extent to which they want to test Battlenet right now.

I'd love to see if there is official word from Blizzard on this.
 
Well I've amassed over 150 games now and the game is pretty damn stable hardware wise, and balance wise, a few tweaks here and there may be enough.

A lot of the balance being talked about on the b.net forums is really just whining. The game is incredibly polished. Blizzard could honestly release it within a month if they wanted to, but then again, this is Blizzard...

Would love to see confirmation on that though
 
Dustin Bowder stated that he wants 10,000 concurrent users, I was wrong that means roughly another 2000 invite will probably trickle out.

At this point I'm considering buying a key!
 
Well I found what I think he's referring to.

What level of concurrency to you want to get to before the end of the beta?
Dustin Browder: I think we want to maintain about 10,000. It’s sort of our goal, and we’ve just about hit that at this point. I can see we’re at 9,000-something right now, and 10,000 is the goal. That makes our match-maker really happy, makes it really sing when we’re about at those numbers. If we get much higher than that we’ll just leave it, and if we see concurrency fall off we’ll add more keys until we get back to those numbers.
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Yea, sort of disappointing but I think a good chunk of testers are just trying it out and not going to test the entire beta.

http://www.vg247.com/2010/03/09/int...owder-on-the-beta-gdc-and-finally-going-home/
 
Decko87 said:
Dustin Bowder stated that he wants 10,000 concurrent users, I was wrong that means roughly another 2000 invite will probably trickle out.

At this point I'm considering buying a key!
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It would be greater than 2000 additional keys, considering that there are roughly 25000 people in the beta right now and under 10000 people playing. Not everyone that has a key plays at the same time. :)

In any case, there are 6500 players on at the moment, 3:30 PST. I'm definitely checking back on this number in the evening.
 
Got in.
Not terribly impressed. For me, the single player campaign better be fantastic and long, because multiplayer is NOTHING new.
 
Modred189 said:
Got in.
Not terribly impressed. For me, the single player campaign better be fantastic and long, because multiplayer is NOTHING new.
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Im glad someone said something i was beginning to wonder if i was all alone thinking just that. I know the hardcore starcraft fans will embrace this but for me i guess i was hoping for more than the original with a new engine.

For me its just not fun enough because i constantly get my ass handed to me, maybe im not that good i guess but i fare pretty well in other RTS games.
 
If I don't get into the beta someone is going to have to put me down like a rabid dog, because I'm going to become FERAL!! :)
 
Modred189 said:
Got in.
Not terribly impressed. For me, the single player campaign better be fantastic and long, because multiplayer is NOTHING new.
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Were you really expecting massive change in the sequel to the best/most popular multiplayer RTS in the history of the genre? They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they changed anything.
 
z3r0- said:
Were you really expecting massive change in the sequel to the best/most popular multiplayer RTS in the history of the genre? They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they changed anything.
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And as it stands they've changed quite a lot. Race balance and unit balance feels very different from Brood War.
 
There was a review somewhere saying that he had two conflicting views- the professional that could easily see the game's quality and insight already in the beta stage, and the other that doesn't see anything new being brought to the table. For competitive gaming and for those invested in the details the game is superb; those just picking it up to mess around will likely be discouraged by the level of play and confusing pace of gameplay, which happens to be ludicrous speed.
 
Serpico said:
And as it stands they've changed quite a lot. Race balance and unit balance feels very different from Brood War.
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Rebalancing units and races is not something i would consider "quite a lot", those are the types of things you expect in a simple patch not a whole new game. I guess i just expected more.

As it is now this game is simply the original with a new graphics engine and some rebalancing.

But i do see why the hardcore fans love it, if it aint broke...
 
kencheeto said:
There was a review somewhere saying that he had two conflicting views- the professional that could easily see the game's quality and insight already in the beta stage, and the other that doesn't see anything new being brought to the table. For competitive gaming and for those invested in the details the game is superb; those just picking it up to mess around will likely be discouraged by the level of play and confusing pace of gameplay, which happens to be ludicrous speed.
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Wish i would have read this before my last post. This sums up my thoughts on it pretty well. The hardcore fans and pros will love it otherwise there is not much of an appeal to most people. Unless it has a really kickass single player campaign like the first i dont see many people really getting into it that are not already fans.

I could be wrong though. Either way it will sell like hotcakes.
 
The cool thing though is that are giving a level playing field for all players to be competitive in their matches.

The way the match making system works is that the more people there are in the ladder the more of a level playing field you will encounter. You only play against a very small subset of the population according to your ladder position.

For instance, if there are 200,000 players in the ladder, and for arguments sake, nobody got better or worse, you're only going to end up playing against MAYBE .05% of the ladder population. Of course people will get better/worse over time, but it's all relative. You'll only ever be playing against people that are at you're skill level. Right now in beta with only a few thousand users to play against (can only play against those in your region, US) the skill level even within your own division can be huge. (not to mention the matches out of your division, which can have a horrible skill level gap right now)

Even people that have a hard time beating the AI can find fun and competitive matches once bnet has 100's of thousands of players in the ladder.
 
In the interview linked on this page, they are saying it's going to be 20+ hours for campaign. I'm sure theres a couple things planned they haven't talked about or let people try.

For the casual players we have a 20-plus-hour campaign that we want them to play before they get into online play, to get used to the gameplay experience. We have a wide selection of AI opponents, five different difficulty levels of AI opponents, which we encourage people to try out their chosen race with before they get into online play. We have our Challenge mode, which has a bunch of maps that teach you some of the fundamentals of competitive online play, that we encourage you to play before you get into online play. We have co-operative games against the AI, an actual quick match where we pick a random ally for you and get you playing against AI opponents. So we have, I dunno, 30-40 hours of offline and semi-online play experience for the more casual players...
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Edit: Ha now its on the previous page, Baera posted link.
 
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