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Starcraft 2 Beta

Baera said:
The cool thing though is that are giving a level playing field for all players to be competitive in their matches.

The way the match making system works is that the more people there are in the ladder the more of a level playing field you will encounter. You only play against a very small subset of the population according to your ladder position.

For instance, if there are 200,000 players in the ladder, and for arguments sake, nobody got better or worse, you're only going to end up playing against MAYBE .05% of the ladder population. Of course people will get better/worse over time, but it's all relative. You'll only ever be playing against people that are at you're skill level. Right now in beta with only a few thousand users to play against (can only play against those in your region, US) the skill level even within your own division can be huge. (not to mention the matches out of your division, which can have a horrible skill level gap right now)

Even people that have a hard time beating the AI can find fun and competitive matches once bnet has 100's of thousands of players in the ladder.
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Exactly. Battlenet does a tremendous job of matchmaking you with people closer to your skill level. Of course, the fewer people on, the greater the odds of you paired up against people outside your skill level. At slower times I'm sure I've been paired with Gold or Platinum level players. Of course, if you beat players of a higher skill level then you are rewarded with more points, so its again a really great system for multiplayer.
 
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Samson4EiT said:
In the interview linked on this page, they are saying it's going to be 20+ hours for campaign. I'm sure theres a couple things planned they haven't talked about or let people try.
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Yup, the single player campaign for each race is supposed to be as long as Starcraft and Brood War were. On top of the RTS element there is a light adventure game element in between missions. You talk to people, spend money on new units, unit upgrades, tech upgrades, hire mercenaries, etc. There is also a mission tree so you don't have to take on levels in a specific order.

I played this at Blizzcon 09, it was way way bigger than I was expecting.
 
Disposed said:
Rebalancing units and races is not something i would consider "quite a lot", those are the types of things you expect in a simple patch not a whole new game. I guess i just expected more.

As it is now this game is simply the original with a new graphics engine and some rebalancing.

But i do see why the hardcore fans love it, if it aint broke...
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We agree to disagree. Base micro due to MBS combined with the new base/special unit micro abilities (Chrono Boost, larva inject, MULE) really changes the feel. Then there's race balance which is completely different from SC1, especially on the Terran side. To say that Starcraft 1 and 2 feel similar is like saying Quake 2 feels like Quake 1, IMHO ridiculous.
 
 
Disposed said:
Im glad someone said something i was beginning to wonder if i was all alone thinking just that. I know the hardcore starcraft fans will embrace this but for me i guess i was hoping for more than the original with a new engine.

For me its just not fun enough because i constantly get my ass handed to me, maybe im not that good i guess but i fare pretty well in other RTS games.
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+1. I mean, in a beta. on the training levels, I don't stand a chance. Now, I don't have a problem NOT being the best at a game, but somewhere along the way, there needs to be room on B.net for casual starcraft players and pros SEPARATELY. This was one of the issues I had with multiplayer on the original.

z3r0- said:
Were you really expecting massive change in the sequel to the best/most popular multiplayer RTS in the history of the genre? They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they changed anything.
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Yes. Something new besides a graphics upgrade that looks like it belongs in 2007. Some new mechanic or gameplay concept or vision. Instead, the units, even the new ones, are largely the same things from SCI, except for a few that can hop grade-changes and switch from air to ground attack. And that's not really new.
It just feels too derivative, and not really worth the hype. I'd say that this is a sequel in the strictest sense of the word, and again, the single player will make it or break it for me. Never thought I would say these kinds of things about a Blizzard game.

Serpico said:
And as it stands they've changed quite a lot. Race balance and unit balance feels very different from Brood War.
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And that's ok, but that's not NEW. That's just an adjustment. And a somewhat odd one to get used to because the of the seemingly arbitrary changes. For example, hydralisks are significantly stronger than in SCI, particularly in relation to standard terran ground troops.


Ultimately, I was expecting more, especially from Blizzard. This is one of the few consistent, for-gamers, AAA game companies still around, and it seems to me that they got hung up in the balance and for-pros aspects of multiplayer (limited FOV, minimal graphics fidelity for example) that they forgot about casual RTS players and folks that will be playing mostly single player.

EDIT: After reading this page, I have to comment that I hate the matchmaking. It takes FOR EVER, and makes IWnet look lightning fast.
 
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Modred189 said:
+1. I mean, in a beta. on the training levels, I don't stand a chance. Now, I don't have a problem NOT being the best at a game, but somewhere along the way, there needs to be room on B.net for casual starcraft players and pros SEPARATELY. This was one of the issues I had with multiplayer on the original.
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I agree. I'm not the best at it but I'm pretty decent. It would be nice to play against other people of my skill level.
 
Modred189 said:
+1. I mean, in a beta. on the training levels, I don't stand a chance. Now, I don't have a problem NOT being the best at a game, but somewhere along the way, there needs to be room on B.net for casual starcraft players and pros SEPARATELY. This was one of the issues I had with multiplayer on the original.
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This is what the divisions are for, good players keep getting moved up fast, and new players and those of us who aren't that great, stay in the lower divisions until we get better. I think SC2 is taking a great approach towards casual vs competitive playing.

Modred189 said:
EDIT: After reading this page, I have to comment that I hate the matchmaking. It takes FOR EVER, and makes IWnet look lightning fast.
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You wont be waiting long come this summer when millions of people around the world buy the game lol. Right now the beta system is "learning." It is constantly comparing raw data to try to make the best match-ups it can. I have feeling once enough data is collected and you get the larger player base match-making wont take nearly as long.


You also have to realize that a lot of people got into SC not because of competitive playing. A lot of people started playing because of the countless mods that were being created. I am pretty sure I have spent more time playing mods, and building maps then trying to competitively play. Blizzard is pushing mods and map making big time with this game, it is just not included in the beta. This beta is merely for balancing the races. So don't form any pre-mature judgments from it. We haven't seen half of what this game has to offer.
 
Jutsu said:
You wont be waiting long come this summer when millions of people around the world buy the game lol. Right now the beta system is "learning." It is constantly comparing raw data to try to make the best match-ups it can. I have feeling once enough data is collected and you get the larger player base match-making wont take nearly as long.
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I hope so, because it takes over 8-10 minutes for it to find me a match, and with the computer AI stuck at VERY EASY (i.e. don't do anything beyond a barracks), it's very frustrating.
 
Modred189 said:
I hope so, because it takes over 8-10 minutes for it to find me a match, and with the computer AI stuck at VERY EASY (i.e. don't do anything beyond a barracks), it's very frustrating.
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What division are you in? I have a feeling the lowest division right now in the beta has the least players since most people who got in are earlier are all pro/hardcore players and have already moved up to Silver, Gold, Platinum. Cause watching streams I seriously see them playing 8-10 games an hour with as little as a 15 second wait for match making.

In the Bronze division though games don't last 10 minutes, they can go on for hours because people have never played before or are learning, or just have no idea wtf is going on lol. Since these games last longer you have less people to match up against and it can cause a longer wait times. This is one flaw I do see with Blizzard's division/ranking system. Once everyone moves up, the new people are going to take forever to get the next division when there are so few people to play unless the lowest division is held to constant population.
 
Serpico said:
To say that Starcraft 1 and 2 feel similar is like saying Quake 2 feels like Quake 1, IMHO ridiculous.
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That statement is ridiculous.

Jutsu said:
You wont be waiting long come this summer when millions of people around the world buy the game lol. Right now the beta system is "learning." It is constantly comparing raw data to try to make the best match-ups it can. I have feeling once enough data is collected and you get the larger player base match-making wont take nearly as long.
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This is what i am counting on, ill buy it for the campaign and hopefully by the time i beat it the ladders will be smoothed out a bit so i can get into games my level. Dont get me wrong im sure the games a blast but i guess i just suck at it and am being thrown to the wolves in the beta.
 
I play in the bronze division and it takes less than 30 seconds to find a match. Sometimes it says 'extending search' which prolly means it searching for something lower or higher than bronze. My matches last 10-15 minutes.
 
Starting to get the hang of the match ups, though the game glitched and demoted me from plat to gold, I'm working my way back to first place in gold atm.

Learning some faster build orders and what not.
 
Modred189 said:
I hope so, because it takes over 8-10 minutes for it to find me a match, and with the computer AI stuck at VERY EASY (i.e. don't do anything beyond a barracks), it's very frustrating.
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8-10 minutes, wtf. The longest I've ever had to wait for a game is 10 seconds. I'm basically never waiting for a game and yours is the first complaint I've seen of long matchmaking times. No idea what's happening on your end.
 
Disposed said:
That statement is ridiculous.
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Not at all. People with a superficial understanding of first person shooters would say that all Quake games are the same, when in fact they all feel radically different from each other mostly based on something you discount: stat and balance adjustments. Same thing applies with Starcraft 1 and 2.
 
Serpico said:
8-10 minutes, wtf. The longest I've ever had to wait for a game is 10 seconds. I'm basically never waiting for a game and yours is the first complaint I've seen of long matchmaking times. No idea what's happening on your end.
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Who knows, The gremlins were so happy. Maybe the zerglings got at them...
 
Ah Starcraft. back in the day I was all over it. Worked at scinfinity.com (gone now) great community of fansites. I miss the interviews and playing with the top ladder players back then. Its been over ten years now.

I'm excited about this game.
 
Where is the best place to go for build orders/key commands and such?

I'm an RTS newblet and do not want to get completely owned.

Also, are most games not really progressing beyond Tech 2 before a winner is decided?
 
Dan UCF said:
Where is the best place to go for build orders/key commands and such?

I'm an RTS newblet and do not want to get completely owned.

Also, are most games not really progressing beyond Tech 2 before a winner is decided?
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http://www.sc2armory.com/
http://www.teamliquid.net/
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Main_Page

And yes, many games these days do not go beyond tech 2. If it goes tech 3 then its either because both players are newbies, or there has been a lot of back and forth in the fighting and nobody had conceded yet.
 
kencheeto said:
thanks for reposting, i really need these links.
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No problem. This guy also has spreadsheets that are in progress: http://shurafa-gaming.blogspot.com/

Things like DPS are in there but it needs things like DPS + light/heavy modifiers, etc, but its still pretty useful.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhiEl7_qc0ntdGhGWlJhcF84blFTQ0Y0bEdUU2EzOXc&hl=en

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhiEl7_qc0ntdGdxNTlGWVBzaWFFc0d0d2c1N2NkTVE&hl=en

Watching HDStarcraft and HuskyStarcraft on Youtube is also very helpful as far as learning build orders, learning and understanding counters, etc etc. Plus HDStarcraft's stuff looks spectacular in HD. :)

http://www.youtube.com/hdstarcraft
http://www.youtube.com/huskystarcraft
 
I've gone to tier 3 once or twice in the game. Lost to terrans with their god damn thors and stim packed marines with some marauders mixed in. Oh and don't forget a stealth group of banshees :/
 
refraxion said:
I've gone to tier 3 once or twice in the game. Lost to terrans with their god damn thors and stim packed marines with some marauders mixed in. Oh and don't forget a stealth group of banshees :/
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What race are you generally playing? Its extremely rare when I see thors on the field, but if a game has gone that far I generally have more than enough colossus and void rays to counter with. I have a much tougher time dealing with late game air units since Protoss anti-air is so poor.

Now early marines+marauders, that's huge cause for concern. ;)
 
I'm protoss, was in 1v1 platinum till bnet decided to glitch out and demote me to gold. I am currently sitting at #1 gold.

Terrans definitely destroy anything protoss mid to late game since they have more mobility and can expand on islands much easier. I've lost very close games but because he had an expo on an island and no way of getting enough units to take down his turrets, he was able to amass a good sized ground army and some banshees to stealth take out my base.

Early marines and marauders are pretty easy to beat I find. You usually fast tech to observer and scout out what they have. From there you build immortals / colossi if need be. You build a stargate to however much star ports they make to try and counter. Sentries/zealots with 3-4 stalkers to help immortals focus down the marauders really helps while the zealots aim down the marines (with charge if you can).

But like I said, I've only had about 2 games where we had to go late game and its always against Terran only.
 
Good match up.













i thought the zerg player had it but the toss psi storm really kept him alive. i still think if the zerg player wouldve pushed right after the toss player pushed he wouldve won.
 
Ritorix said:
Wow. That was god damn epic. :eek:

Highly recommended, plus the commentator is knowledgeable.
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Zerg play had very little micro if none on his units throughout the match and range upgrade + que attack will easily own zeals and not let so many ht get away...

Although after watching this I kind want to try a sentry/ht/colossus/phoenix build using a line force fields and storms to push the map control and use phoenix to harass ovies/queens/workers. It could be a lot of fun on the right map prolly only work on zerg though....
 
New patch is up:

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23094049316&postId=236120179757&sid=5000#5


  • PROTOSS

  • Cybernetics Core
  • Warp Gate research time increased from 60 seconds to 140 seconds.


  • ZERG

Hatchery/Lair/Hive

Burrow research time increased from 50 seconds to 100 seconds.
Burrow research cost increased from 50 Minerals and 50 Vespene Gas to 100 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas.

Nydus Network

Nydus Worm build time increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.

Hydralisk

The delay between attacks has been increased from 0.75 seconds to 0.83 seconds.

Infestor

Neural Parasite has been redesigned:

The limited duration of 10 seconds has been removed.
Can no longer target air units.
Cast range decreased from 9 to 7.

Burrowed Infestor move speed decreased from 1.5 to 1.
Infestor life decreased from 120 to 90.
Infestors that are burrowed now have the same threat level as above-ground units for the purposes of automatically acquiring targets.​

Decent nerf bat to the Zerg. Increased Warp Gate research time is understood, I guess it'll cut down on proxy pylon rushes, but at the same time I'm gonna miss being able to get Warp Gates so quickly. It was the one thing that saved my ass against a zergling rush last week. Wave after wave kept coming in and I was barely able to hold them back, right up until my Warp Gates went up, then it was over for them and they had to regroup.

Hydra DPS just went way down, I'm sure you'll see a lot of complaints about that.
 
Jutsu said:
Zerg play had very little micro if none on his units throughout the match and range upgrade + que attack will easily own zeals and not let so many ht get away...

Although after watching this I kind want to try a sentry/ht/colossus/phoenix build using a line force fields and storms to push the map control and use phoenix to harass ovies/queens/workers. It could be a lot of fun on the right map prolly only work on zerg though....
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That's an expensive build you got there, between robotics, templar, AND air. :)

Psi Storm is cool but even with three expansions I only have so much cash to go around. I usually end up stalker/colossus/void ray, supported by sentries and zealots. Void Rays have their weakness in that they aren't good for numerous weak units, but that's what the colossus, stalkers, and zealots are for.
 
@Serpico - that's what choke points are for. Even without warpgates early Zerg can't do crap all with just zerglings
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surprised at how swift they are being with the patches, one every week so far since launch. gives me hope this game will actually be released some time soon.
 
mas said:
surprised at how swift they are being with the patches, one every week so far since launch. gives me hope this game will actually be released some time soon.
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they're not adding content, just tweaking stats (quite a bit) to balance out anything they notice over time. We're lucky enough to be playing during active development :)
 
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