Star Wars: Squadrons

VoodooRufus

Weaksauce
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Just finished the intro with my Logitech stick. Had to futz with the controls a little and am still learning all the buttons, but I'll get there.

So far, it's a bit arcade like as has been noted, but fun and good challenge. Can't wait to dig in more.
 

Colonel Sanders

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Yeah it's currently broken unless you play at 60hz v-sync. Basically the "unlocked framerate" is a lie right now. It's 60hz/60fps or stutter town. https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsSq...ks_like_half_of_what_it_actually_is/?sort=new

The only way to get a smooth VR experience is to force perma reprojection - either by pushing your settings too high or by forcing it on (with the Oculus debug tool for example).

A lot of people are doing that by accident and don't notice/care because of motion smoothing/ASW doing their magic - that's why some reviewers didn't say anything and some people are still enjoying it. But it's not cool with the artifacts and all, especially because the engine actually can easily push 90+ fps in VR with a decent rig (my 1080 ti can do it on the Rift S with 30-40% headroom on full ultra settings).

It's just the way in which the engine outputs frames that is currently broken. The devs said they are aware and working on it. Let's see how long it takes...

How the HELL does a bug like this make it all the way to release day? Baffling.
 

defaultluser

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OMG, this is awful. Controls are a mess. And it feels like fighting ants. Everything looks tiny compared to your cockpit. I swear it's like flying a star destroyer at least, X-Wings are tiny specks on the screen. And a Star Destroyer barely fills up my window even from up close.

I could barely get a few shots off at the enemy before getting completely destroyed. The most laughable part: Diverted 100% power to engines. And an X-Wing still blew past me like I was standing still.

But the worst are truly the controls, it's unplayable with a stick. I bumped sensitivity to 100% and still the response is delayed and tiny to any input I make. Dead zone is set to 0% and I still have to push the stick at least 50% before I get any movement at all. Thank god I didn't buy this game.

Power and shield management is needlessly over complicated compared to the classics. You achive the same basic functions, but with using three times as many keys for it.


And that is why I had no intention of buying it at-launch. It's guaranteed to be buggy-as-hell on release.

I'm putting it on my Christmas list, and either someone can pick it up for me in December, or I'll buy it FULLY-PATCHED during one of the many sales for half-price.
 
Last edited:

kalston

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How the HELL does a bug like this make it all the way to release day? Baffling.

I have no clue. Some of the reviewers mentioned it even... Guess a lot of reviewers and devs must be playing at 60hz v-sync though lol.

And the ones doing VR reviews must have been mostly playing on the Index (that has a 120hz mode, which mitigates the problem decently thanks to 60fps + reprojection).
 

M76

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I don't even have a 60Hz option, only 30 or 75hz is offered by the game. But I didn't notice any stuttering on 75hz.

Switched to keyboard+mouse, it is much better this way. Not perfect, but at least playable.
What I don't get, is I started the imperial campaign, did the first mission, and now the game loads the first mission of the Rebel campaign WTF? why?
 

ghostwich

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I don't even have a 60Hz option, only 30 or 75hz is offered by the game. But I didn't notice any stuttering on 75hz.

Switched to keyboard+mouse, it is much better this way. Not perfect, but at least playable.
What I don't get, is I started the imperial campaign, did the first mission, and now the game loads the first mission of the Rebel campaign WTF? why?
There's one campaign, you flip sides throughout.
 

kalston

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They warn you (after character selection) that you'll be switching sides throughout the story.
 

Flogger23m

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But the worst are truly the controls, it's unplayable with a stick. I bumped sensitivity to 100% and still the response is delayed and tiny to any input I make. Dead zone is set to 0% and I still have to push the stick at least 50% before I get any movement at all. Thank god I didn't buy this game.

Pretty much. I don't find response to be bad, but mixing up roll and yaw is just horrible. Essentially it is like having two sticks. Why?

For controllers its worse because one of the sticks functions as a throttle to. I don't get it, arcade flight games like Ace Combat can do both on a single stick. This is the only game I've played that mixes up yaw and roll and then separates them.

Of the 3 input devices mouse/keyboard is "best", but throttle control on a keyboard is horrible. I'll play around more in the coming days but messing up the basic controls out of the box is not good.
 

somebrains

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I'm watching the asusrog Squadrons stream and I'm not getting it at all.
It's like your perspective is in the middle of a hampster wheel and you're shooting outwards at random clusters of targets.
I'm not liking the BF esque resupply and repair spam.
 

M76

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Did the same people write all the characters in the game who wrote holdo? Everybody is annoying, everybody is getting on my nerves, I instantly press skip on every conversation, which I Never normally do in games.

The missions are simplistic, and I'm still playing as rebel scum. The "story" is non-existent, inchoerent, meaningless garbage .Compared to this the campaign / story in battlefront 2 is a masterpiece.
 

M76

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Pretty much. I don't find response to be bad, but mixing up roll and yaw is just horrible.
That's actually not mixed up, it was like this in all x-wing / tie fighter games. But they did reverse the Y axis, pushing forward on the stick pitches up by default LOL.
 

Krenum

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Godamnit! Can't these developers at EA do anything right?! I was looking forward to playing this, but I'm not gonna buy it unless they fix the refresh rate issues. I didn't buy the 144hz monitor for nothing.

How does something like this escape testing before release?!
 

Flogger23m

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That's actually not mixed up, it was like this in all x-wing / tie fighter games. But they did reverse the Y axis, pushing forward on the stick pitches up by default LOL.

I see, so the old games had it off to.

Part in bold is just crazy though. I mean its a simple fix, but why?
 
Joined
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Not gonna lie, I'm really enjoying the hell out of it, even with some of the bugs.

Granted, I've got an old Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 for my stick, but still, it's been great fun.
 

Saturn_V

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I see, so the old games had it off to.

Part in bold is just crazy though. I mean its a simple fix, but why?

I'm thinking that it's set that way (stick forward-->pitch up) to appease FPS players, where the convention is mouse forward-->tilt up. I came up in flight sims, and I'm always inverting the Y mouse in shooters.

My muscle memory from Elite Dangerous is fucking me up... where I have pitch/roll on the stick and yaw on the pedals. May have to switch for this game too.
 

M76

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I'm thinking that it's set that way (stick forward-->pitch up) to appease FPS players, where the convention is mouse forward-->tilt up. I came up in flight sims, and I'm always inverting the Y mouse in shooters.

My muscle memory from Elite Dangerous is fucking me up... where I have pitch/roll on the stick and yaw on the pedals. May have to switch for this game too.
In the game the Y axis can be reversed separately for sticks controller and mouse controls. So it really makes no sense why is it like that for flight sticks. Anyway as flogger had said it's an easy fix, I wish this was the biggest issue with the game.
 

vegeta535

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Had anyone played this with a index? How are the index controllers for this?.
 

[Paragon]

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Read your review, some I agree with some I don't. Hotas controls are messed up, but you can change the way you shift power. Toggle it to advanced from simplified and you can redirect in increments just like x-wing/tie fighter. You can also setup hot keys or button combos to slam power to max in any of the categories when needed as well. You can also dump power from lasers into shields or shields into lasers if you need to, just have to have the keybind setup (just like in the OG games). There is alot of work for them to do on this game, I'm hopeful that we will get some decent patches that address most of the issues.

Also I agree wtf is up with the limited laser bursts? It's pretty lame.
 

Q-BZ

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I can wait. It should be a solid multiplayer ship game. If the SP is decent then so much the better. I'm a lot more interested in SP generally speaking.
 

M76

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Toggle it to advanced from simplified and you can redirect in increments just like x-wing/tie fighter.
I already set it to advanced, it works in increments, the problem that you can't control where the energy is coming from when you incrase one thing it takes away from both others. And that there is no rollover, when you are at max for something you can't just press it again to bring it to lowest. The end result is that I have to play around for a minute with three buttons to get a desired configuration. Which I could do in the old games with one two, but max 3 presses of a single! key.

I also didn't mention the stupidity, that you need a seperate assignment to "dumbfire" rockets, why can't I just fire regularly without waiting for lockon? These things are all basic game design issues that they got wrong.
 

M76

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Do you like anything? I don't think I've ever seen you praise any game in any thread ever.
Every game I completed I liked enough to finish it. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call out what they get wrong. I hate this particular game, because it gets things wrong that we had a clear template for that works perfectly, they just had to use it, but for some reason they didn't. When you have every opportunity to make a good game but still fail, it's all the more infuriating. And these basic mistakes like the 50% dead zone and reversed pitch are testament to a whole new level of incompetence I didn't know existed in so called triple A level.
 

grifter_66

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Every game I completed I liked enough to finish it. That doesn't mean I'm not going to call out what they get wrong. I hate this particular game, because it gets things wrong that we had a clear template for that works perfectly, they just had to use it, but for some reason they didn't. When you have every opportunity to make a good game but still fail, it's all the more infuriating. And these basic mistakes like the 50% dead zone and reversed pitch are testament to a whole new level of incompetence I didn't know existed in so called triple A level.

I've been playing space "sims" for 34 years and I have no issue with it, nore, it seems, do quite a few other people so maybe it's less about developer "incompetence" and more about you.
 

mvmiller12

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The game is overall quite enjoyable, and in my time with the game thus far I really only have two complaints:

1) I hate Hate HATE that craft handling and resiliency is nearly identical for each side by class. What I mean by this is that the X-Wing and Tie Fighter handle exactly the same - an issue made very apparent when the game switches you from one craft right into the other. Your Tie Fighter (and X-Wing), for example, handles like a freaking Assault Gunboat when you are at max throttle. You have to slow down to get decent responsiveness in your craft. This makes some sense in the case of the X-Wing, and even more in the case of the bombers. In Tie Fighter (the gold standard in Star Wars flight sims), you don't slow down your Tie Fighter unless you are trying to stick behind someone or you will die. Speed is life to a Tie Fighter pilot - it has to be when you are always 2 shots from dead. The trade off is that the Tie Fighter is a tiny target that is maneuverable as hell, and works in a group for swarm tactics. They are supposed to be pretty hard to hit while nailing you from all over. The X-Wing, on the other hand, is supposed to be fairly (but still a bunch less than a Tie Fighter) maneuverable while packing more fire power and shields. It's a bit tanky and designed to work more independently from other X-Wings, and in smaller numbers than Tie Fighters. Being able to soak up a bunch of laser hits and having to slow down to make a decent turn in a Tie Fighter kills me a little inside.

2) The missions are very straightforward and simplistic in the single player campaign. What You See Is What You Get for the most part. I really miss the unexpected twists in turn that pop up mid-mission from the earlier games; those times when something WTF comes in from out of left field and now you're in uncharted territory desperately trying to wing it while waiting for command to pipe in and give you new orders. Nothing so far has touched the thrill of scrambling to stay alive because the rest of your squadron got it's ass handed to it, and hitting Shift-Z to hear "Request for reinforcements, acknowledged." Thrill as the Star Destroyer pops in a few seconds later and drops off another 2 or 3 wings of Tie Fighters before jumping back out. Turn the tables on that rebel scum as your buddies run up from behind to take the heat off of you. :)

Both of these issues make sense when you look at it as being designed from the ground-up as a multiplayer team game. Personally I'd have been happy if they left the balancing as it is in the multiplayer mode and given us X-Wing II or Tie Fighter II (or both! a man can dream...) in the single player campaign. But I can readily acknowledge that the game I want is probably never coming, and this is as close as I am going to get to it. On the one hand, it's sad, but on the other I am still enjoying what I've got. I can still mourn a little for what could have been, but this is far better than nothing. Who knows? Maybe what I want can be DLC'd or modded in later... Hope springs eternal!!
 

Aireoth

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Both of these issues make sense when you look at it as being designed from the ground-up as a multiplayer team game.

To me, this is why the game is a failure, the multiplayer team games and their comp/twitch led design has ruined a good chunk of gaming by exchanging fun and character for balance.
 
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M76

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I've been playing space "sims" for 34 years and I have no issue with it, nore, it seems, do quite a few other people so maybe it's less about developer "incompetence" and more about you.
I didn't tell you to hate the game, or is the fact that I'm not liking it offending you?
I'm pretty fed up with this everything is black and white attitude: "no issues" lol!
You not taking issue with the game doesn't mean there aren't issues that are objectively there. Like the permanent deadzone, which is definitely not me.
Or the needlessly more complicated controls. You're fine with that, I'm not. Yes it is definitely me, I have no tolerance for suboptimal experience in games anymore.
 

M76

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The game is overall quite enjoyable, and in my time with the game thus far I really only have two complaints:

1) I hate Hate HATE that craft handling and resiliency is nearly identical for each side by class. What I mean by this is that the X-Wing and Tie Fighter handle exactly the same - an issue made very apparent when the game switches you from one craft right into the other. Your Tie Fighter (and X-Wing), for example, handles like a freaking Assault Gunboat when you are at max throttle. You have to slow down to get decent responsiveness in your craft. This makes some sense in the case of the X-Wing, and even more in the case of the bombers. In Tie Fighter (the gold standard in Star Wars flight sims), you don't slow down your Tie Fighter unless you are trying to stick behind someone or you will die. Speed is life to a Tie Fighter pilot - it has to be when you are always 2 shots from dead. The trade off is that the Tie Fighter is a tiny target that is maneuverable as hell, and works in a group for swarm tactics. They are supposed to be pretty hard to hit while nailing you from all over. The X-Wing, on the other hand, is supposed to be fairly (but still a bunch less than a Tie Fighter) maneuverable while packing more fire power and shields. It's a bit tanky and designed to work more independently from other X-Wings, and in smaller numbers than Tie Fighters. Being able to soak up a bunch of laser hits and having to slow down to make a decent turn in a Tie Fighter kills me a little inside.

2) The missions are very straightforward and simplistic in the single player campaign. What You See Is What You Get for the most part. I really miss the unexpected twists in turn that pop up mid-mission from the earlier games; those times when something WTF comes in from out of left field and now you're in uncharted territory desperately trying to wing it while waiting for command to pipe in and give you new orders. Nothing so far has touched the thrill of scrambling to stay alive because the rest of your squadron got it's ass handed to it, and hitting Shift-Z to hear "Request for reinforcements, acknowledged." Thrill as the Star Destroyer pops in a few seconds later and drops off another 2 or 3 wings of Tie Fighters before jumping back out. Turn the tables on that rebel scum as your buddies run up from behind to take the heat off of you. :)

Both of these issues make sense when you look at it as being designed from the ground-up as a multiplayer team game. Personally I'd have been happy if they left the balancing as it is in the multiplayer mode and given us X-Wing II or Tie Fighter II (or both! a man can dream...) in the single player campaign. But I can readily acknowledge that the game I want is probably never coming, and this is as close as I am going to get to it. On the one hand, it's sad, but on the other I am still enjoying what I've got. I can still mourn a little for what could have been, but this is far better than nothing. Who knows? Maybe what I want can be DLC'd or modded in later... Hope springs eternal!!
Actually I'd not be surprised if all the craft were the same in the game, the only difference being the cockpit design. When I switched to the A-Wing it actually seemed slower than the X-Wing.
And the missions are so simplistic that I started skipping all the briefings after the second one, and still could easily do them. The objectives are spoon fed to you anyway, so there is no way to fail. Especially since the game seems to wait on you. IF it takes 20 minutes to kill everyone it takes twenty minutes. And with unlimited repairs you can basically rinse and repeat forever until you get every enemy.
 

grifter_66

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I didn't tell you to hate the game, or is the fact that I'm not liking it offending you?
I'm pretty fed up with this everything is black and white attitude: "no issues" lol!
You not taking issue with the game doesn't mean there aren't issues that are objectively there. Like the permanent deadzone, which is definitely not me.
Or the needlessly more complicated controls. You're fine with that, I'm not. Yes it is definitely me, I have no tolerance for suboptimal experience in games anymore.

I didn't say you did. You claimed the developers were incompetent because YOU didn't like something about it. I stated otherwise.
 

Shoganai

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Having a blast with the game and I don’t normally play these kinds of games.
 

mvmiller12

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Having a blast with the game and I don’t normally play these kinds of games.

No one normally plays these types of games anymore because it is, sadly, a dead genre :(

That being said, if you find you really like Squadrons and have a good joystick, try Freespace 2 Open with the graphics mods on it. Volition let it run off into the wild as an open source engine waaayyyy back when Interplay dissolved and there are a dedicated group of modders that keep the engine and graphics pretty current. While it is not quite the spectacle of Squadrons, it looks stunning and is the very best "modern" Space Combat sims have to offer. Large variety of mods and custom campaigns as well - including Star Wars, Babylon 5, Wing Commander, Battlestar Galactica and more.

They've put more effort in recent years into getting the game easier to install and set up. Best place to get started is here. Works with Windows, MacOS, and even Linux.
 

RanceJustice

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I'm disappointed to hear the craft all seem to fly very similarly - that's a major departure from the old Xwing / TIE Fighter days when each craft was entirely different feeling. This wasn't just between "classes" but individual craft - a TIE Bomber and Y-Wing functioned and felt completely differently! That's really too bad if its not the case here.

I'm even more concerned if the missions all seem too straight forward and simple - be they single player or campaign. One of the great things (as aforementioned) about the older titles was that things would get hectic, there would be secondary, tertiary, and even secret objectives (the latter unlocked usually by doing something in mission that spawns the new objective, labeled or otherwise) and these would impact your mission path. Sure, you could do the basic primary or maybe secondary objectives, but you could also hang around in certain missions fighting against waves of increasing difficulty, detect a hidden cargo element and escort it safely, or go up against enemy aces ; often deciding when to retreat vs pushing the envelope was part of the fun! The rewards of these meant unlocking in-game medals and special story path elements - even special missions! I can remember unlocking special missions and getting into the "Emperor's Hand" back in the TIE Fighter games because of my prowess.

I'm glad Squadrons is present , but I really hope they don't miss what made the older titles great and then assume "nobody wants to buy this kind of game anymore, so we will just make lootbox garbage". It seems like they shouldn't have leaned too hard on the multiplayer side and/or treating single player fun like a tutorial at best.
 
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No one normally plays these types of games anymore because it is, sadly, a dead genre :(

That being said, if you find you really like Squadrons and have a good joystick, try Freespace 2 Open with the graphics mods on it. Volition let it run off into the wild as an open source engine waaayyyy back when Interplay dissolved and there are a dedicated group of modders that keep the engine and graphics pretty current. While it is not quite the spectacle of Squadrons, it looks stunning and is the very best "modern" Space Combat sims have to offer.
{snip}

Elite Dangerous would like to have a word with you...
 

Ragenrok

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Just played about 2 hours of my 10 hour trial and its fun so far, its not the most amazing game ever but tis entertaining and interesting in my Rift S. I was extremely happy with how easy it was to jump in the VR mode through origin, had 0 issues doing it.
 
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