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Star Wars Outlaws

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What I don't understand, maybe I'm just "old", is why can't I pick a male character like you could in Far Cry 5? Seems like a lot of games are going this route. The Star Wars that I remember were mostly male characters.
 
TaintedSquirrel said:
Maybe this?
Click to expand...
I did a test earlier for the definitive settings/upscaler showdown for texture sharpness. Seems RTXDI softens the textures all over any scene whilst only marginally improving the shadow and lighting in some areas, whilst also killing 40fps.

https://imgsli.com/MjkxNjYx

I think the case here is that RTXDI is broken or not doing what it's supposed to be doing. DLAA is the sharpest, but you can get very close to DLAA using DLSS Performance at 4K and disabling RTXDI whilst leaving everything else maxed out I would say. Given that You gain 40fps means
 
robbiekhan said:
I did a test earlier for the definitive settings/upscaler showdown for texture sharpness. Seems RTXDI softens the textures all over any scene whilst only marginally improving the shadow and lighting in some areas, whilst also killing 40fps.

https://imgsli.com/MjkxNjYx

I think the case here is that RTXDI is broken or not doing what it's supposed to be doing. DLAA is the sharpest, but you can get very close to DLAA using DLSS Performance at 4K and disabling RTXDI whilst leaving everything else maxed out I would say. Given that You gain 40fps means
Click to expand...
Is this with RTXDI on Ultra? If so, it's disappointing that I only see 3 out of the 6 prominent light sources in this scene being improved.
 
Yes Ultra, on Low the fps increases by about 10 more whilst not really looking that different to Ultra, so probably better off just using RTXDI Low and gaining more fps whilst stil having soft shadows instead of the hardlined shadows of RTXDI off.
 
Executioner said:
What I don't understand, maybe I'm just "old", is why can't I pick a male character like you could in Far Cry 5? Seems like a lot of games are going this route. The Star Wars that I remember were mostly male characters.
Click to expand...

because of the "message".....DEI

Can't have strong males in games anymore, especially in a Star Wars game.
 
robbiekhan said:
No RTXDI isn't path tracing
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Go read the nvidia article on it. It’s literally nvidias method of bolting on path tracing to an engine. This is why enabling it is such a huge performance hit. It’s the same method cyberpunk utilized, and has the same negative aspects like how it muddles out textures.

“RTXDI combines with our suite of RTX and Neural rendering technologies to build a real-time path tracer, handling screen space and world space light sampling ...”
 
Executioner said:
What I don't understand, maybe I'm just "old", is why can't I pick a male character like you could in Far Cry 5? Seems like a lot of games are going this route. The Star Wars that I remember were mostly male characters.
Click to expand...
Geralt can't be female... Lara Croft can't be male...
It's probably because Han Solo is a man and they wanted to differentiate.
 
Executioner said:
What I don't understand, maybe I'm just "old", is why can't I pick a male character like you could in Far Cry 5? Seems like a lot of games are going this route. The Star Wars that I remember were mostly male characters.
Click to expand...
If a game as voiced dialogue, motion capture, offering more than one character add a lot of work. Think not be able to change your character in SW Survivor or not having voiced dialogue in Baldurs Gates 3.

And the storyline-NPC can take major characteristic like the sex of the protagonist into account at some point, adding even more work
 
Ranulfo said:
Various reviews I've watched say its 12-15 hours to complete the basic story. The RTX stuff now explains why they want 6 core cpus and higher end graphics. Though if you can't turn off RTX, how can they say it runs on a 1660 for 30fps?
Click to expand...

I suppose we're getting into a time where some developers will decide if they want to use ray tracing they won't bother with a raster version of the game (more time to test/implement). Didn't think it would come this soon though.

TaintedSquirrel said:
Yes I saw the same, 20-30 hours with side stuff and 40 hour 100%.
It seems in addition to making mediocre games, Ubisoft is now also making them shorter and charging an extra $10.
Click to expand...

About the same length as a typical Ubisoft game. Far Cry 6 is around 40 hours without DLC. I assume once DLC is out, Outlaws will be 52-55 hours. Price increase is for most AAA games. $70 is slowly becoming the new $60.
 
Mchart said:
Go read the nvidia article on it. It’s literally nvidias method of bolting on path tracing to an engine. This is why enabling it is such a huge performance hit. It’s the same method cyberpunk utilized, and has the same negative aspects like how it muddles out textures.

“RTXDI combines with our suite of RTX and Neural rendering technologies to build a real-time path tracer, handling screen space and world space light sampling ...”
Click to expand...
No, path tracing in all 3 currently available games with native path tracing shows a marked improvement in the entire lighting branch when enabled vs the highest RT mode available in the game. This has none of that.

Path tracing can also run at 60fps or more on a 4090 with just DLSS Performance enabled without Frame Gen, whereas this gets barely 45fps

you quote that it also samples screen space, it absolutely does not, since screen space is being used in this game even with Ultra RTXDI enabled which you can see in any scene with large reflections or water, see my video below at the last scene:


View: https://youtu.be/jnTEzgTE2Oo

Above all that, no marketing anywhere from Nvidia nor Ubisoft states "path tracing" or "Full Ray Tracing", which is the collective name Nvidia exclusively use when path tracing is used in a game.

I'm sure RTXDI "could" embody path tracing and be implemented to path trace in a game, but it is not being used in Outlaws as it is clearly and obviously not implemented. The low performance when enabling it is simply bad optimisation from Ubisoft which is a running trend with this dev, and on top of that the marginal improvement to light and shadow when enabling RTXDI proves that it isn't being path traced, or if it is..... Ubisoft have forgotten to flick the switch.

RTX Dynamic Illumination (RTXDI)​


NVIDIA RTXDI is a ray-tracing library that renders millions of dynamic lights and shadows in a scene without performance hits. RTXDI is accelerated by RT Cores in RTX GPUs.
Click to expand...
 
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robbiekhan said:
No, path tracing in all 3 currently available games with native path tracing shows a marked improvement in the entire lighting branch when enabled vs the highest RT mode available in the game. This has none of that.

Path tracing can also run at 60fps or more on a 4090 with just DLSS Performance enabled without Frame Gen, whereas this gets barely 45fps

you quote that it also samples screen space, it absolutely does not, since screen space is being used in this game even with Ultra RTXDI enabled which you can see in any scene with large reflections or water, see my video below at the last scene:


View: https://youtu.be/jnTEzgTE2Oo

Above all that, no marketing anywhere from Nvidia nor Ubisoft states "path tracing" or "Full Ray Tracing", which is the collective name Nvidia exclusively use when path tracing is used in a game.

I'm sure RTXDI "could" embody path tracing and be implemented to path trace in a game, but it is not being used in Outlaws as it is clearly and obviously not implemented. The low performance when enabling it is simply bad optimisation from Ubisoft which is a running trend with this dev, and on top of that the marginal improvement to light and shadow when enabling RTXDI proves that it isn't being path traced, or if it is..... Ubisoft have forgotten to flick the switch.
Click to expand...

All great opinion but I’m just quoting nvidia.
 
Yeah and Nvidia say RTXDI has the capability to combine all of RTX tech, which includes path tracing. Again, there is nothing out there anywhere showing or confirming that Outlaws uses path tracing. Nvidia themselves state on the RTX dev blog that RTXDI does not impact performance. I quote again:

RTX Dynamic Illumination (RTXDI)​


NVIDIA RTXDI is a ray-tracing library that renders millions of dynamic lights and shadows in a scene without performance hits. RTXDI is accelerated by RT Cores in RTX GPUs.
Click to expand...

Outlaws is not path traced.
 
robbiekhan said:

View: https://youtu.be/jnTEzgTE2Oo
Click to expand...

Wow, the AI is fucking brain dead. Even by Ubisoft standards that's bad. What's with her grabbing the enemies hands and them not even reacting to it? It's a weird design decision. It's also retarded that they can stack up bodies by a crate without other enemies noticing all the dead guys. We know Ubisoft can do better as that wouldn't have worked in a Ghost Recon game.
 
Either they designed it for kids, or they got lazy with the AI or the devs faced a deadline and released it in this state
 
Would I be able to redeem one of the Nvidia promo codes if I already activated a previous promo (Alan Wake 2) on my GPU?

Dan_D said:
Wow, the AI is fucking brain dead. Even by Ubisoft standards that's bad. What's with her grabbing the enemies hands and them not even reacting to it? It's a weird design decision. It's also retarded that they can stack up bodies by a crate without other enemies noticing all the dead guys. We know Ubisoft can do better as that wouldn't have worked in a Ghost Recon game.
Click to expand...

In Wildlands my squad walked through walls and within feet of enemy NPCs that did not react. It was dumb but I could see why, the AI was so wonky and uncontrollable that they just made it so that once the player is detected the NPCs will react. Compared to what they had in GRAW, where enemies would actually flank every now and then and move while others provided cover fire it was a big step back.
 
robbiekhan said:
Yeah and Nvidia say RTXDI has the capability to combine all of RTX tech, which includes path tracing. Again, there is nothing out there anywhere showing or confirming that Outlaws uses path tracing. Nvidia themselves state on the RTX dev blog that RTXDI does not impact performance. I quote again:



Outlaws is not path traced.
Click to expand...
Ok. Except it does have a massive performance hit in this game, and when enabled you get illumination effects that are like path tracing in other games.
 
why can't they just give the SW license to Rock Star for an open world game? I'm down for banging Jawas at a cantina strip club.
 
Bigbacon said:
why can't they just give the SW license to Rock Star for an open world game? I'm down for banging Jawas at a cantina strip club.
Click to expand...
Maybe Rockstar is not interested in making games based on licensed properties since they're already the most profitable developer in the industry. A Star Wars game wouldn't reach a larger audience than they already have at this point. The use of a licensed property also comes with conditions, and I'm sure Rockstar doesn't want to develop at the whims of an outsider who doesn't understand their brand.
 
Executioner said:
What I don't understand, maybe I'm just "old", is why can't I pick a male character like you could in Far Cry 5? Seems like a lot of games are going this route. The Star Wars that I remember were mostly male characters.
Click to expand...
You would need two voice actors
 
Armenius said:
Maybe Rockstar is not interested in making games based on licensed properties since they're already the most profitable developer in the industry. A Star Wars game wouldn't reach a larger audience than they already have at this point. The use of a licensed property also comes with conditions, and I'm sure Rockstar doesn't want to develop at the whims of an outsider who doesn't understand their brand.
Click to expand...
Sadly makes me want to pour one out for The Warriors. Great game that sadly never made it to PC, even though Manhunt and Bully did. They knocked it out of the park...that game drips with atmosphere and fan service to the movie.
 
Executioner said:
They could have done it but it sounds like they went the cheap route. As for being DEI, screw that. I'm not going to support this bullshit. I'm 69 and don't need to be feed that shit.
Click to expand...
Like god of war, Tomb Raider, Bioshock, red dead redemption 1-2, many of the grand theft auto, uncharted, last of us, The Witcher, kingdom come deliverance, Fallout, mass effect, metal gear solid, Assassin's Creed, gears of wars, ghost of Tsushima, Jedi Survivors, Alan Wake 1-2, Horizon zero dawn, many resident evils with voice work, ratchet and clang, spider-man games

It is really the norm for game with narrative to have a single pre-set of protagonist to play it is even hard to think about an exception for that level of dialogue and interaction in a big open world game like that. And Ubisoft release games in English-French-German-Japanese-Spanish-Portuguese voice track, until generative AI get good enough (or never if some powerful Hollywood union block it) it will continue to be the norm.
 
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Lateralus said:
Sadly makes me want to pour one out for The Warriors. Great game that sadly never made it to PC, even though Manhunt and Bully did. They knocked it out of the park...that game drips with atmosphere and fan service to the movie.
Click to expand...
I had forgotten about that game. I recall a lot of fanfare for it in the magazines, but never got around to playing it. It's too bad the Manhunt and Bully PC ports are both garbage.
 
Armenius said:
Maybe Rockstar is not interested in making games based on licensed properties since they're already the most profitable developer in the industry. A Star Wars game wouldn't reach a larger audience than they already have at this point. The use of a licensed property also comes with conditions, and I'm sure Rockstar doesn't want to develop at the whims of an outsider who doesn't understand their brand.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. They already make a shit load of money. They don't need to attach to some big IP and be desperate for cash. No way Disney would just let Rockstar do whatever they wanted with their IP. Disney would only allow games to be made that they ultimately have full control of - Which is part of the reason why these games are so averagely average.

This goes all the way back to Star Wars Galaxies. LucasArts ended up ruining that game because they didn't like the idea of a Star Wars game where you couldn't be a Jedi. Even though a MMO where you couldn't be a Jedi (Outside of like maybe the top 100 players) is the entire reason why people loved SWG pre-'new game enhancements' that ended up ruining it.
 
Mchart said:
Disney would only allow games to be made that they ultimately have full control of - Which is part of the reason why these games are so averagely average.
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I would be curious to read those kind of agreement, the game studio pay good money for them (would it be in raw points on the games or in others ways), Disney I am sure keep some control, but probably not full control.

If it is similar to Marvel-Sony deal for spiderman, they will have a minimum budget, a maximum of time between 2 games releases, cannot be rated R, but not necessarily go that much in details (I am sure that Disney had way more bargaining power in the 2010s than Marvel in 1999). Here for example, ubisoft pitched a concept they had to LucasArt that they approved.

They use a game studio for a reason, for the creativity and know how they bring, not just the technical level, here ubisoft claim:
Lucasfilm also "was very supportive" in providing guidance to help the team achieve the right look, says Machin, adding that the developers had free rein to define the games' look and gameplay.

Could be false obviously, but could be true, Ubisoft is probably financing all the cost to make the game and in that situation easy to insist keeping a lot of control on it.
 
LukeTbk said:
I would be curious to read those kind of agreement, the game studio pay good money for them (would it be in raw points on the games or in others ways), Disney I am sure keep some control, but probably not full control.

If it is similar to Marvel-Sony deal for spiderman, they will have a minimum budget, a maximum of time between 2 games releases, cannot be rated R, but not necessarily go that much in details (I am sure that Disney had way more bargaining power in the 2010s than Marvel in 1999). Here for example, ubisoft pitched a concept they had to LucasArt that they approved.

They use a game studio for a reason, for the creativity and know how they bring, not just the technical level, here ubisoft claim:
Lucasfilm also "was very supportive" in providing guidance to help the team achieve the right look, says Machin, adding that the developers had free rein to define the games' look and gameplay.

Could be false obviously, but could be true, Ubisoft is probably financing all the cost to make the game and in that situation easy to insist keeping a lot of control on it.
Click to expand...
I know for a fact it was this way with SWG and SOE. Granted this is like two decades ago now and Disney versus lucasarts. However, I really doubt Disney is better.
 
polonyc2 said:
Hardware Unboxed recently talked about this...the problem is that developers are focusing on ray tracing, lighting etc and texture quality is taking a hit...Black Myth: Wukong has poor texture quality, so does Cyberpunk 2077...same with Star Wars: Outlaws...Wukong uses around 8GB VRAM because the textures are not that high quality

textures make a huge difference in a game...which is one of the things that the ID Tech engine does really well...developers need to start taking advantage of the 16GB+ VRAM available on high end cards or should at least offer a High-Res texture pack...problem is that most gamers are still on 8GB cards
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Yeah, And who's fault is that? (8GB cards).
 
Mchart said:
Yeah, this makes a lot of sense. They already make a shit load of money. They don't need to attach to some big IP and be desperate for cash. No way Disney would just let Rockstar do whatever they wanted with their IP. Disney would only allow games to be made that they ultimately have full control of - Which is part of the reason why these games are so averagely average.

This goes all the way back to Star Wars Galaxies. LucasArts ended up ruining that game because they didn't like the idea of a Star Wars game where you couldn't be a Jedi. Even though a MMO where you couldn't be a Jedi (Outside of like maybe the top 100 players) is the entire reason why people loved SWG pre-'new game enhancements' that ended up ruining it.
Click to expand...

They would also take royalties. I am not sure how much, but that is less profit for them.
 
Mchart said:
I know for a fact it was this way with SWG and SOE. Granted this is like two decades ago now and Disney versus lucasarts. However, I really doubt Disney is better.
Click to expand...
It would not be disney being better, it would be Ubisoft paying for making the game versus Lucas Art licensing a studio to make a game that would be really different.

The Ubisoft game is set in star wars universe but not linked to a series or movies with the timing with that release being needed and being a marketing push for it. Star wars galaxy was published by LucasArt, the dynamic would be different than a game that is published by Ubisoft.

And LucasArtGames was almost totally closed by Disney, that could lead into more responsibility on the licensing studio.
 
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Mchart said:
Ok. Except it does have a massive performance hit in this game, and when enabled you get illumination effects that are like path tracing in other games.
Click to expand...
It has a massive impact because it's not optimised as evidenced by the runaway vram use as frametime spikes that follow when it has to poll to ram:

1724804351197.png



Again, it's ubisoft, they do it regularly, this is their MO.

Funnily enough a hidden gfx option called Outlaw that maxes out many settings beyond ultra has been found and it for me is more optimised than Ultra as I've not seen the vram issue sing it yet.


View: https://youtu.be/ALMYpJqW19g
 
robbiekhan said:
It has a massive impact because it's not optimised as evidenced by the runaway vram use as frametime spikes that follow when it has to poll to ram:

View attachment 675811


Again, it's ubisoft, they do it regularly, this is their MO.

Funnily enough a hidden gfx option called Outlaw that maxes out many settings beyond ultra has been found and it for me is more optimised than Ultra as I've not seen the vram issue sing it yet.


View: https://youtu.be/ALMYpJqW19g
Click to expand...

how to unlock outlaw?and what doing that settings
 
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