SENTRY: Console-sized gaming PC case project

Discussion in 'Small Form Factor Systems' started by SaperPL, Sep 1, 2014.

  1. lhindir

    lhindir n00bie

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    I'm aware of the 5V and 12V variants; there's also PWM and analog for both voltages to watch out for. Seems to agree with 4884's assessment. Should be fun to test.

    I was thinking about this more recently, and I was wondering if perpendicular fins might actually be more useful for cooling the VRM's, although the RAM would still be a nuisance. Hopefully sealing the intake and maybe squeezing in some 40mm could still ensure the hot air gets out reasonably efficiently with that setup.

    Yeah, "best performance and temps possible" might end up being a spectrum though, depending on what kind of temps you can live with under load. Open-air cards might perform better but make everything hotter. More testing will help.

    USB doesn't natively carry video, but doesn't USB-C, or can it only do one of power and video but not both at the same time? The Eleduino display should work over just USB-C but it requires both that and HDMI, unfortunately. Still looks like the best option though.

    Thanks for all the input!
     
  2. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    Usb-c only supports video if it is running in the display port alternate mode and is plugged into a USB-c port that is directly wired to a gpu. Super confusing, not all usb-c can do all the things the standard is capable of. They are probably just using USB-c for power. I doubt it supports video.

    As for vrm thermals it's probably not a big deal unless you want peak overclocks which isn't happening in Sentry anyway. Generally, VRMs on a decent board can tolerate 90-100C indefinitely and 120C for at least 2000-5000 hours at 125C and above lifespan starts dropping. So I wouldn't worry about vrm thermals in Sentry. They're going to be warm no matter what. Keeping you're cpu cool though may get you another 100-200mhz sustained turbo.

    As for open air gpu's, they may heat everything up, but ideally sealing the cpu intake fan to the case lid will prevent it from recirculating that gpu heat. Though it is worth noting heatsinks work in either direction. That is to say, in low ambient temperature they shed heat to the environment but in a really high ambient temperature they can absorb heat from the environment quite well. That's why I think sealing the cpu fan to the case vent is pretty important for performance. It allows the cpu fan to also act as a case fan with really high pressure to force heat out.
     
  3. JesseJH

    JesseJH n00bie

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    I want to set up an 80MM radiator loop in the sentry, and I need advice. I’ve never done a custom loop before. I chose 80MM because I want the Zotac short 1080 Ti (the 211MM model) and a 92mm would be too close to the maximum 305MM length.

    The challenging CPU in question is the i9-9900K which I’ve had pre ordered since the 8th (no shipping details yet for those of you wondering) it runs hot. I know my LP53 + Noctua combo can hold its base clock, but I’m not sure it will be able to handle Intel’s factory boost. (Correct me if I’m wrongly worried) I don’t plan on overclocking it, and I just want it’s full stock speed to be handled in a stress test.

    There is a nice all copper 80MM radiator on frozencpu http://www.frozencpu.com/products/2...5_Full_Copper_Single_80mm_Radiator_14211.html

    But with all the research I’ve done, I’m still confused on fittings and such. I plan on getting an 80MM Noctua fan for the radiator.

    I basically have zero clue on custom loops and need help and other advice is also appreciated. I’m hell bent on making the 9900k work. Even if I have to ubdervolt too.
     
  4. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    Definitely going to need to undervolt. But you can maintain stock speeds with standard turbo boost (no multicore enhancement) even with undervolt on most Intel cpu's. Also that radiator is 42mm thick. You'll need to find a fan that's ~15mm thick with high static pressure. Sentry is only 66mm thick (outer dimension, inner is probably 1.5mm less) and you need 2mm of clearance for the fan or else it will be obnoxiously loud, defeating the purpose of water cooling. So I suggest to plan for total thickness of no more than 62mm just to be sure. Have you found a pump and reservoir that will fit? I think alphacool makes a tiny pump/res combo. Also you'll almost certainly want to do soft tubing. And you'll probably want to go with the maximum diameter allowed by the radiator/pump and res. That way you maximize your coolant volume because you won't have room for a big reservoir. I'm no custom loop expert but hopefully that helps a bit.
     
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  5. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons [H]Lite

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    love the enthusiasm but I'm afraid it just isn't going to be practical. that 80mm rad is pretty thick, odds are it won't fit. The linked page says its 41mm thick, mine is 27 with a 12.5mm fan and it's still tight as hell. That and your temps just aren't going to be very good. I'm already running a 7700k with a 120mm aio in this case and to this day my temps will still get into the 80s, can't imagine how much hotter twice the cores on a smaller radiator will be. Best advice, ditch the cpu or see if you can fit a 120 or 92mm aio. unless you are willing to do A LOT of modding, i'm afraid it likely won't work.
     
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  6. JesseJH

    JesseJH n00bie

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    Thanks for the advice. I’ve done a little more research after reading the previous page on this thread, regarding the AXP-100. I found this cooler, it’s fully copper with a graphene coating. Without the fan on top, and underneath, it evidently satisfies the Sentry’s height requirement. What I’m trying to figure out is how much space there is underneath the fins to mount a fan. There are various slim options out there, and ideally I want a fan that will not require me to bend the heat pipes to slot in. The aforementioned Asaka fan referenced in the pictures on the page before this may work, http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?...no=181&type=Fans&type_sub=Slim&model=AK-FN076
    The heatsink in question is massive, weighing in at ~640G. I found it at this link;
    https://shop.tbfocus.com/item.php?id=575223803461#3961749903009
    Another fan aside from the Asaka fan that I’m hypothesizing *could* fit under the heatsink is this one; though it is 2mm taller at 12mm, but is a 100mm fan. Lacking PWM however. https://m.newegg.com/products/9SIA2W03Z90688
    I know what the Sentry is designed to do. But I want to know what it’s *capable* of doing. Preferably without scarring the case.

    Thoughts?
     
  7. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    In the previous page SaperPL quoted a Sentry owner that used the AXP-100. It seems to work decently. At this point though I'm waiting to make any upgrades to my system until we see the final performance of the Dan HSLP48 which will be released to market by Alpenföhn as the Black Ridge. It looks very promising. Maybe it's worth just using a cheap and widely available nh-l9i while waiting to see how new low profile options perform?

    I guess it'll be difficult if you stick with the 9900K. Gonna need like a - 0.09V offset. Maybe even -0.1V if it's stable. Maybe disable turbo boost or set max turbo to like 4.0ghz in the meantime?

    Edit:

    Also worth noting, the 9900K power consumption and temps seem to vary from reviewer to reviewer. According to Hardware Unboxed, this comes down to the motherboard used for testing. Some motherboards have strict power limits that really cap power draw close to the tdp of the cpu. Other boards with powerful VRMs intended for OC'ing let the power limit go up to 150-200W. So you could set the power limit in bios to say, 100W. That should make things tolerable.

    AFAIK, when comparing clock for clock with 8th gen the 9th gen is a bit cooler thanks to solder TIM, larger die surface area to transfer heat and the 14nm+++(4x+?:D) process Intel is on has actually been getting larger and larger since their first 14nm. That is transistor gate pitch has been increasing (therefore transistor density has been decreasing) in order to hit higher and higher clocks. Lower transistor density means less heat packed into a small area.

    Sooo long story short, there's a chance with all of this taken in to account that the 9900K could be feasible in Sentry.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  8. JesseJH

    JesseJH n00bie

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    Yeah, I'm confident my LP53 and Noctua fan will be able to hold the line (For now...) and I will be disabling Multicore Enhancement if applicable on my board, as it technically runs outside of Intel's stock settings, and I will try to dial in the highest and most stable undervolt possible.
    I'm using an Asrock Z390 Phantom ITX. Seems like a high quality board. I've got everything I need now aside from my pre ordered 9900K, and a discreet GPU. Options for that are still up in the air, but I think I'm going to skip Turing and wait for a shrink (3080 Ti?) and go with a nice GTX 1080 Ti instead.
     
  9. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons [H]Lite

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    don't quote me on this but i believe you could fit a 120mm aio in with a gigabyte 1080 mini, its dimensions are listed as less than my vega nano and i managed to fit that.
     
  10. JesseJH

    JesseJH n00bie

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    You can. I’ve already checked on that, but I definitely want no less than a 1080 Ti. I think I’m going to wait for the CPU to actually get here, test on my LP53+Noctua and reassess from there, asking you guys for advice again.
    I’m going to make it work one way or another.
     
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  11. JesseJH

    JesseJH n00bie

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    Update: 9900K is in the Sentry. TDP limited to 95W. Voltage offset -20mV

    AIDA64 stability test sees CPU hitting 100C, but no thermal throttling.

    System specs:
    -i9-9900K (Using LP53 with Noctua slim fan)
    -32GB G.Skill 3200Mhz
    -No GPU at this time (still deciding what to get)
    -Samsung 970 Pro 1TB x2 (Raid 0 2TB)
    -AsRock Phantom Gaming ITX Z390
    -SilverStone 800W SFX-L 80 Plus Titanium PSU

    It’s a good system. I wanted to be able to undervolt my 9900K more, but I could be doing it wrong, because there’s not much headroom at all, or I really lost the silicon lottery.
     
  12. Neapolitan6th

    Neapolitan6th Gawd

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    Are we to assume that any greater negative voltage offset you attempted caused stystem instability/crashes?

    There's no doubt you can get the chip to "work", but there will likely have to be sacrifices. Hopefully others who are more knowlegable than myself regarding Z390 bios settings may be able to help.
     
  13. SaperPL

    SaperPL [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can you check idle temps and temps in cinebench + some games?

    Also I'm wondering what's your usecase for such CPU - video editing maybe?
     
  14. Pillars

    Pillars Limp Gawd

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    When going ultra small form factor stuffing in the fastest chip may not be the best idea.
     
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  15. lhindir

    lhindir n00bie

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    OK, I really am building this time around. I have all my parts except the GPU. I’m using a Ryzen 2600 with an L9i that I will probably put some kind of shroud on. There are two 2070’s I’m deciding between: the Gigabyte Gaming 8G and the Asus Turbo. Both are $530 at Amazon, where I have 10% off. The Gigabyte is an open-air cooler and I know it has four heat pipes, while the Turbo is a blower-style. I’m not sure how many heat pipes the Turbo has, but lower model Gigabyte cards have two so it’s possible the Asus does. I would use weather stripping or a shroud with both cards. What do you guys suggest?

    Edit: Got any specific weather stripping models for sealing off fans? Not sure on what dimensions would be best.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  16. NuclearLemons

    NuclearLemons [H]Lite

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    based on the cooling style, i would imagine weatherstripping to be more effective on the blower, pretty sure the gigabyte would just dump heat inside.
     
  17. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    As for the blower cooler, it really depends on the heatsink inside. I found the GTX 1070 Founders edition was vastly inferior to the GTX 1080 Founders edition cooler, even though the GTX 1080 has 30W higher TDP. That's because the 1080, 1080ti and Titan blowers have a vapor chamber between the gpu and fins to absorb and distribute the heat. The 1070 and some of the cheaper 1080 blowers (like the MSI blower and Asus blower models) don't have the vapor chamber and get quite a bit warmer, requires high fan rpm (thus more noise) and are just much more difficult to keep cool. So do try to figure out if the blower cooler has a vapor chamber or not, in my experience it makes a big difference.

    I had a decent experience with my GTX 1080 Founders Edition in my Sentry system. I just recently picked up a used EVGA 1080ti SC Black edition which is an open air cooler. I put weatherstripping around the perimeter of the face of the card so it doesn't recycle it's own exhaust. Its ok. It maxes out at 76C with a pretty aggressive fan curve which has the fan at 2400-2600rpm, so honestly it's almost the same noise level as my GTX 1080 Founders Edition. So for a lower TDP GPU like the RTX 2070, if the blower style has a vapor chamber, I say go with that. If it doesn't have a vapor chamber, go with the open air style.
     
  18. Ej24

    Ej24 Gawd

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    Adding to my previous post I thought I'd provide a more specific update.

    I opted not to go with an RTX card, but rather just get a used 1080ti for my Sentry PC. I got the EVGA 1080ti SC Balck with the ICX cooler. I placed closed cell foam rubber weather stripping around the face of the card to keep it from recycling hot air. I have a rather aggressive fan curve in MSI Afterburner that ramps up to ~65-70% fan speed (~2600rpm) at 70C. It maxes out at like 76C like I said before, that's after cleaning and repasting it with Thermal Grizzly Cryonaut. It's definitely louder than I was expecting. I have the fan set to idle at ~25% so idle temps are basically room temp.

    CPU temps changed very little for my delidded undervolted i7-4790K, maxes out at around 70-74C in most games with the LP53-NF-A9x14. However, my undervolt became very unstable. Tons of random bluescreens and crashes in games. I wonder if it has something to do with the beefy GPU pulling more current on the 12v rail of the PSU? Maybe a degree or two C warmer just made it less stable at the lower voltage? I had to go from -0.065V offset to more like -0.04V offset to get back to stability at stock clocks (4.4ghz all core).

    I have two SATA SSDs in my Sentry and the one closer to the CPU now gets crazy warm during gaming ( its also closer to the GPU die). According to HW Monitor, 58C. I've never seen a sata SSD that warm in Sentry. The one closer to the PSU only gets up to ~48C. They can handle it but it's not ideal. I had a game crash due to an "unrecoverable file system error". Strange, maybe a coincidence. Fixing the undervolt on the CPU seems to have fixed the random crashes, so maybe that was it.

    In my experience with a GTX 1060, GTX 1080, and GTX 1080ti in a Sentry pc, I'd say the 180W TDP of the 1080 was the sweet spot. Totally manageable temperatures, high performance, not too loud, didn't have to worry about anything else getting too hot. The 1080ti has netted me maybe 20% high fps at best, but I still can't do 4K60 Ultra in many games and 1440p doesn't always work well with my TV (usually get capped at 30fps, maybe a limitation of my AV receiver? Or the TV?) so most of the time I end up using it at 1080p anyway.

    Long story short, probably avoid the top tier card. Just go with the xx80 card rather than the Ti. I can't imagine an RTX 2080ti in Sentry.
     
  19. Rysen

    Rysen Limp Gawd

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    Here are some images of my fully protable Sentry with 1080p touch monitor and 25mm fan attached. (As well as wireless keyboard/mouse) perfect case for portability. Everything fits in my backpack. Only a regular power cord required to power everything. Turned my PC into an ALL In One PC.
    IMG_20181202_152621[1].jpg IMG_20181202_152722[1].jpg IMG_20181202_152841[1].jpg IMG_20181202_152734[1].jpg
     
  20. Zeerroouu

    Zeerroouu n00bie

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    Hi everyone,

    jus wanted to share my build to you guys.. as Im very sure there are someone out there who wants to throw in a AIO cooler for our SENTRY case, but why not an external AIO ? =)) I'm planning to make a custom stand for the radiator so it'll stand nicely beside my SENTRY .

    cheers from Singapore


    Updated photo with a simple custom stand for the 280mm rad
     

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    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
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