Seasonic Connect released!

Can someone with more knowledge explain why the efficiency is 70% @2% load?
 
DooLocsta said:
Can someone with more knowledge explain why the efficiency is 70% @2% load?
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2% load is 15 watts; if you've got 15 watts going to the computer and 6 watts going to the control circuits and the fan (if it spins at that load?), that's 70% efficicency with round numbers. 6 watts isn't that much waste --- lots of devices use a watt or two when soft-off.
 
Efficiency always falls off at both ends of the spectrum with power supplies. This is why you should always get a large enough supply to stay in that 80-90% range for max draw efficiency, and never buy something that is just way too big that will waste energy at the lower loads.
 
DooLocsta said:
Can someone with more knowledge explain why the efficiency is 70% @2% load?
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Because there are active components in the PSU that draw a set amount of power regardless of how much power is flowing out of it. At 15w (2% of 750), that amounts to 6.4w of additional draw.
 
DooLocsta said:
Can someone with more knowledge explain why the efficiency is 70% @2% load?
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PSU efficiencies are always ABYSMAL at low loads.

Usually PSU efficiency looks like this:

1587764613576.png


So a typical desktop PC at idle gets very poor efficiency out of the PSU. Of course, this is a ver low efficiency percentage, on a very low amount of power drawn, so it isn't a terrible amount of power we are wasting here, but still.

If you want to optimize your efficiency, you need to match your PSU size very closely with the constant load you expect, so that your constant load falls in the 70-90% range. Of course this is a terrible idea for most builds, as then you have no margin for higher loads. For some servers with very predictable and stable loads - however - this can be a way to gain PSU efficiency.

This is what I tried to do with my Kodi box and pfSense router build. I used Mini-box 60w PicoPSU's kits. because of their low power rating I can be closer to the peak efficiency. They draw under 10W from the wall most of the time. The pfSense vox goes down to about 6w at idle, which is nuts.

Definitely would not do this for an enthusiast desktop though. It would likely end in tears.
 
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Damn.

This would have been REALLY convenient for my current build.

If they ever come out with a 1200W version I could be persuaded to replace my 1200W Seasonic Prime Platinum with something like this.
 
Mchart said:
Efficiency always falls off at both ends of the spectrum with power supplies. This is why you should always get a large enough supply to stay in that 80-90% range for max draw efficiency, and never buy something that is just way too big that will waste energy at the lower loads.
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Not true. They're most efficient at 50%-70%, but even at 20% and 100% they're only a few percent down. It's below 20% (10% for 80+ Titanium) that things get terrible.
 
Didn't think 2x00 series supported anything beyond dual now.
 
Furious_Styles said:
You running 3x 2080 ti?
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Nope. Threadripper 3960x, Pascal Titan X (highly overclocked) 24 fans (16 120mm, 8 140mm) , 2 D5 pumps, and a few other expansion cards.

Yes, 1200W is la large safety margin, but not as crazy as you make it sound. Look at the PSU Calculator output below:

1587765874297.png



That and I want a little bit of margin to change things up in the future without worrying about pushing up against the limit
 
kirbyrj said:
Same link twice.

I don't think $170 is all that reasonable for a 750W Gold PSU.

It's up at NE though right now for those who are interested.
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If we compare it to the prime platinum here https://www.newegg.com/seasonic-pri...750pd2-750w/p/N82E16817151217?&quicklink=true (newegg does not have a prime gold up atm) being close to this price for the added features is good value imo. I know that prime gold 750watt psu's go for $158 because I recently bought one(kicking myself). 10-20 dollar markup is not bad at all.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Nope. Threadripper 3960x, Pascal Titan X (highly overclocked) 24 fans (16 120mm, 8 140mm) , 2 D5 pumps, and a few other expansion cards.

Yes, 1200W is la large safety margin, but not as crazy as you make it sound. Look at the PSU Calculator output below:

View attachment 240201


That and I want a little bit of margin to change things up in the future without worrying about pushing up against the limit
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Those things always overestimate imo. I just put my stuff in and it's 200-250W off.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Nope. Threadripper 3960x, Pascal Titan X (highly overclocked) 24 fans (16 120mm, 8 140mm) , 2 D5 pumps, and a few other expansion cards.

Yes, 1200W is la large safety margin, but not as crazy as you make it sound. Look at the PSU Calculator output below:

View attachment 240201


That and I want a little bit of margin to change things up in the future without worrying about pushing up against the limit
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Is that without TR overclocked?
 
Furious_Styles said:
Those things always overestimate imo. I just put my stuff in and it's 200-250W off.
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Well yeah, Safety margins.

The calculator probably builds in a percentage safety margin just in case, because there is variability from part to part and system to system, and they sure as hell don't want to wind up estimating too low.
 
Krazy925 said:
Is that without TR overclocked?
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Yep. Stock clocks on the TR. it's not a wall measurement though. Its a theoretical max when everything hits at once. I should grab my Kill-A-Watt and do an at the wall load test to see what I am actually drawing. My guess is that in normal use its rarely above ~650W, but I don't doubt it could spike much much higher.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep. Stock clocks on the TR. it's not a wall measurement though. Its a theoretical max when everything hits at once. I should grab my Kill-A-Watt and do an at the wall load test to see what I am actually drawing. My guess is that in normal use its rarely above ~650W, but I don't doubt it could spike much much higher.
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Overclock TR and remind the crew to stay [H].
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Yep. Stock clocks on the TR. it's not a wall measurement though. Its a theoretical max when everything hits at once. I should grab my Kill-A-Watt and do an at the wall load test to see what I am actually drawing. My guess is that in normal use its rarely above ~650W, but I don't doubt it could spike much much higher.
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Yeah check it and see, I'm interested to see your results.
 
Krazy925 said:
Overclock TR and remind the crew to stay [H].
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I might. The 3xxx series Threadrippers are tricky though.

All core overclocking would certainly produce better performance in highly threaded loads, but it may actually reduce performance in games and other applications that require a less threaded fast core.

PBO might be more effective in doing it dynamically.

Thus far I just havent bothered spending th etime though, as this CPOU makes absolute mincemeat of every load I throw at it.
 
toast0 said:
2% load is 15 watts; if you've got 15 watts going to the computer and 6 watts going to the control circuits and the fan (if it spins at that load?), that's 70% efficicency with round numbers. 6 watts isn't that much waste --- lots of devices use a watt or two when soft-off.
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ryan_975 said:
Because there are active components in the PSU that draw a set amount of power regardless of how much power is flowing out of it. At 15w (2% of 750), that amounts to 6.4w of additional draw.
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Makes sense, much appreciated.
 
Is there a reason the "brick" portion is so large? Seems like it takes up a lot more total volume than a regular PSU even if spread out.

I still seem to think this is a solution looking for a problem. I assume the "advantage" is that there is one cable going from front to back rather than routing 5 or so cables front to back. Back to front is the same with cables coming from various cable cutouts. I suppose that can help somewhat, but seems very minimal. Wondering how compatible it is with most cases in the back. Doubt I'd have room on my Fractal Design S.
 
Flogger23m said:
Is there a reason the "brick" portion is so large? Seems like it takes up a lot more total volume than a regular PSU even if spread out.

I still seem to think this is a solution looking for a problem. I assume the "advantage" is that there is one cable going from front to back rather than routing 5 or so cables front to back. Back to front is the same with cables coming from various cable cutouts. I suppose that can help somewhat, but seems very minimal. Wondering how compatible it is with most cases in the back. Doubt I'd have room on my Fractal Design S.
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I was thinking the same thing. I never really had a problem just routing cables. Seemed a lot easier than finding a place for an external brick and then routing smaller cables anyway.
 
I think this is worse than the 5.25" secondary PSUs they used to have. Let me give you this long module to plug all your cables into and you find somewhere to stick it on the back of your motherboard tray. I really don't understand the point unless they're going to make cases with a dedicated space to mount this form factor. Are magnets really the best way to install power supply modules?
 
ND40oz said:
I think this is worse than the 5.25" secondary PSUs they used to have. Let me give you this long module to plug all your cables into and you find somewhere to stick it on the back of your motherboard tray. I really don't understand the point unless they're going to make cases with a dedicated space to mount this form factor. Are magnets really the best way to install power supply modules?
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Magnets are probably not a particularly good way to do this, but their options are limited, with mounting holes different in most cases.

I mean, I personally have no problem at all breaking out the drill and making my own mounting holes, but that makes a lot of people uncomfortable...

I am Zarathustra, maker of holes!
 
Once my ax1200i dies ill replace it with something like this. Really cool cable reduction and declutter.
 
Furious_Styles said:
Yeah check it and see, I'm interested to see your results.
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Did a few tests.

Idle on Windows Desktop: 230w to 245w
Windows Heaven Benchmark Only, with water still cool, fans/pumps not spun up yet: ~430w
Windows Heaven + Prime 95 Small FFT: Fans/Pumps not spun up yet: ~710w
Windows Heavem + Prime 95 Small FFT Fully Heat Soaked, Pumps + Fans at full load: ~750w to ~800w
Windows: Prime and Heaven Shut off, Pumps and Fans Still going all out: ~290w

In all cases Heaven was run at 4k native full screen, no vsync, everything else set to max, and thread priority set to high (to prevent Prime95 CPU use from slowing it down)
Prime 95 was running 48 threads on 24 cores, Small FFT's (because they are the hottest) and with priority set to low, in order to not impede Heaven.

load test.jpg


IMG_20200425_231425.jpg

(Pardon the dust, the Kill-A-Watt spends most of its life in an unfinished old basement)

So, the PSU Estimator was a little bit high, but still 800w is pretty good, and it gives me a good amount of safety margin.

Also keep in mind that the CPU is at stock settings. Prime 95 Small FFT is pretty close to max heat you can get, but Heaven Benchmark is not really what runs my GPU the hottest, but it is easy to get to run in a loop, so that is what I went with. Other devices (Sound, Network, storage, etc.) were not maxing out, so they would be capable of producing more heat as well.

I'd expect some games I run to run the GPU hotter, but they also are unlikely to max out all threads on the CPU...

In the end, its pretty difficult to get a max load on every subsystem of a modern PC all at the same time, so I think this is a pretty reasonable max electric load test.


...and just to make sure we are still on topic.

In conclusion, yes, I really think I do need more power than this 750w Seasonic Connect can offer.
 
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This legitimately seems like a neat idea, though I'd like to see it honed a bit before purchasing. Some little changes would be appreciative, like a modular connector between the main PSU and the "plug-in brick" ; the whole idea here is modularization, so unless there's a really considerable reason why it can't be done from an engineering standpoint, don't make the "main" connector between the core unit and plug an old style hardwired connector. People willing to pay extra for something like Connect, will likely enjoy the option of being able to buy/make/mod different lengths of that cable and/or change it aesthetically, just like they do with everything else PSU related!

Next, I'm interested in there being multiple "plug-in brick" sizes,styles, and layouts. This is a big long thing that requires a mid-tower or better with enough room to mount it, it looks. Ideally, it would be neat if Seasonic would make a universal "Connect Module" format that can be sized differently, different layouts and connectors etc... that would be compatible with any Connect certified PSU regardless of wattage (or in an ideal world, manufacturer, if this somehow became an open standard, or at least if Seagate licensed it to others). I'm sure this would require a few " Don't be stupid and completely overload your PSU, be sensible about it" notes but it should be all right. I could see Connect modules being useful for all kinds of builds in this regard. I wonder if they could also provide different "core" unit styles too, based not just on wattage but on size and form factor. For example, ATX wattage level PSUs designed for "power-brick" external use or otherwise different placement. When you remove the necessity to have all the plugs for your various cables on the main unit, it frees up the whole thing!

Lastly, the other developments are just things that I assume will come in time. New models with increased wattage options beyond 750w for instance, other quality/efficiency upgrades (what about digital regulation? Gold, Platinum...Titanium ratings?) I expect will be added. The current price premium is significant, but given what you could get for it - especially if they made the changes I described above - could be justified. Ultimately this is the first real advance in PSU tech we've seen for a long time, but its success or failure besides a one-off curiosity will be dependent on what Seasonic does from here. Likewise, their patenting / licensing restriction or lack thereof will also play a role in how widely these sorts of designs can be supported - lets hope for the best!
 
So... this genius innovation from Seasonic replaces a modular power supply - that allows me to to run only the cables I deem required in my system.
title[1].jpg

Instead...this 'Connect' system instead runs ALL the cables (that I may or may not need) to a 2nd big metal box - a metal box that contains regulators that produce heat. That stupid big metal box that I now have to smush up against the back of my motherboard where it has its own regulators generating their own heat. A place on most modern tower cases that get little air flow for cooling - if it will fit at all. Genius.

Also... exactly how does this genius system reduce 'cable clutter'? An un-tuckable metal box reduces clutter? I'm guessing that in a glass case the sight of a power cable induces nausea, whereas runs of garden hoses for cooling do not. Maybe that's Seasonic's target market. Those systems that live in glass cases. The lucrative motherboard as art museum market - who are unafraid of getting hosed.
 
I don't really understand why you wouldn't just spend the money on their titanium versions instead, I agree, the connect doesn't make any sense. You're spending the same amount that you'd spend if you just got their best PSU at the same wattage.
 
It all depends on if it makes sense for the case you're using. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a case specifically for it, but if it seemed like it would work well in the case I'm using it definitely makes for clean cable management.
 
Icecold said:
It all depends on if it makes sense for the case you're using. I wouldn't go out of my way to buy a case specifically for it, but if it seemed like it would work well in the case I'm using it definitely makes for clean cable management.
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I don't understand how it helps clean up cable management though. You run all of your cables up behind the motherboard tray anyway and you've already done everything the module sets out to do, without resorting to slapping a big metal box with magnets on it into your case.
 
ND40oz said:
I don't understand how it helps clean up cable management though. You run all of your cables up behind the motherboard tray anyway and you've already done everything the module sets out to do, without resorting to slapping a big metal box with magnets on it into your case.
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I thought the exact same thing until I watched a build video. As long as the aesthetic works with the case now instead of having a bunch of separate long cables routed behind the motherboard tray you have one single sleeved cable, and then short modular cables run from that big metal box. It's not earth shattering or anything by any means, but if done right it seems like it can make it easier to look really clean.
 
Icecold said:
I thought the exact same thing until I watched a build video. As long as the aesthetic works with the case now instead of having a bunch of separate long cables routed behind the motherboard tray you have one single sleeved cable, and then short modular cables run from that big metal box. It's not earth shattering or anything by any means, but if done right it seems like it can make it easier to look really clean.
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I watched Linus's video on it to try and figure out the point and the only way this makes any sort of sense is if you have a windowed panel on the back side of your case and your case is in a place that you can actually see that side of it because it's basically adding a box with a blue light instead of cable ties. It certainly doesn't make cleaning up the wiring in the rest of the case any easier.
 
Zarathustra[H] said:
Did a few tests.

Idle on Windows Desktop: 230w to 245w
Windows Heaven Benchmark Only, with water still cool, fans/pumps not spun up yet: ~430w
Windows Heaven + Prime 95 Small FFT: Fans/Pumps not spun up yet: ~710w
Windows Heavem + Prime 95 Small FFT Fully Heat Soaked, Pumps + Fans at full load: ~750w to ~800w
Windows: Prime and Heaven Shut off, Pumps and Fans Still going all out: ~290w

In all cases Heaven was run at 4k native full screen, no vsync, everything else set to max, and thread priority set to high (to prevent Prime95 CPU use from slowing it down)
Prime 95 was running 48 threads on 24 cores, Small FFT's (because they are the hottest) and with priority set to low, in order to not impede Heaven.

View attachment 240519

View attachment 240520

(Pardon the dust, the Kill-A-Watt spends most of its life in an unfinished old basement)

So, the PSU Estimator was a little bit high, but still 800w is pretty good, and it gives me a good amount of safety margin.

Also keep in mind that the CPU is at stock settings. Prime 95 Small FFT is pretty close to max heat you can get, but Heaven Benchmark is not really what runs my GPU the hottest, but it is easy to get to run in a loop, so that is what I went with. Other devices (Sound, Network, storage, etc.) were not maxing out, so they would be capable of producing more heat as well.

I'd expect some games I run to run the GPU hotter, but they also are unlikely to max out all threads on the CPU...

In the end, its pretty difficult to get a max load on every subsystem of a modern PC all at the same time, so I think this is a pretty reasonable max electric load test.


...and just to make sure we are still on topic.

In conclusion, yes, I really think I do need more power than this 750w Seasonic Connect can offer.
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Yeah I thought you would mainly due to the TR and pumps. But 1200 still seemed way high to me unless you were planning on SLI. That build is crazy though might as well have fun!
 
If you have the room for that massive extra connectors box, you also have the room to hide all your cables anyway.
 
Ocellaris said:
If you have the room for that massive extra connectors box, you also have the room to hide all your cables anyway.
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This. It just makes more points of failure and more expensive. I have something similar to this though, it's called a full modular power supply.
It's all I run in my systems.
 
Hagrid said:
This. It just makes more points of failure and more expensive. I have something similar to this though, it's called a full modular power supply.
It's all I run in my systems.
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Seasonic's Prime lineup are already full modular.. And if you want to 'only' shoot for Gold efficiency the prime gold is far cheaper compared to the equivalent connect. Or you can go all the way up to titanium and pay the same price as the connect anyways.

I just don't get how this giant bar helps things. You can always order custom cable lengths/styles to use on any of these modular power supplies.

Also as you said, this is just another point of failure. On the other hand I expect my Prime titanium 850w to last a very, very, long time in terms of builds.
 
I dont get this, seems like a solution in search of a problem. Stuff half your PSU in a place with no airflow, and the main part will not work at all without this secondary piece. It also take up more room and can not be used in any SSF cases. It will likely go on the e-waste pile with BTX boards.
 
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