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Samsung intros IPS competitor: PLS

Ephesos said:
hmm, that looks a bit too slim...i hope it won't be edge lit :(
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As far as I know the Apple Cinema Display is edge lit. The 2 ACDs I have seen here didn't have any backlight bleed whatsoever, I took a look at them very precisely. So edge LEDs can definitely be done right, I wouldn't worry about that.

Oh and I totally love the design of the SA850, looks just perfect to me. No glossy bezel, a decent stand and minimal OSD buttons. I think I just fell in love. :)
 
I`m absolutely satisfied with NEC 2490WUXi1, but this SA850 is very tempting... ( I doubt it will match 2490wuxi1 in color reproduction and PQ, but we will see, hope soon ). If it live up to the hype & will have HW callibration ( ok, it will have not, but... ), then I`m definitely sold.
 
3d_vlk said:
I`m absolutely satisfied with NEC 2490WUXi1, but this SA850 is very tempting... ( I doubt it will match 2490wuxi1 in color reproduction and PQ, but we will see, hope soon ). If it live up to the hype & will have HW callibration ( ok, it will have not, but... ), then I`m definitely sold.
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you will switch from a semi-professional monitor to a mainstream one.
edge led + 16:9 = mainstream monitor.
 
sblantipodi said:
you will switch from a semi-professional monitor to a mainstream one.
edge led + 16:9 = mainstream monitor.
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Hello,
I won't switch ( die hard NEC user ), I`ll expand desktop, cause I need some additional decent monitor with larger res than 1920x1200. Man, I would love to have additional 27" NEC PA, but budget prevents me from doing so.
 
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The 2490WUXi1 is a beast of a monitor. The newer NEC displays however cannot impress me nearly as much as the 2490WUXi1 did. NEC uses the same crappy LG IPS panels as everyone else today and stopped using their A-TW polarizer, that makes me very sad.

As an addition to a 2490WUXi1 the SA850 should be pretty decent, but one of the lower end 27" displays with a MVA/cPVA panel they announced could be the cheaper alternative for your needs. With the same resolution and higher contrast vs less color accuracy and more input lag and/or response time, I'm still not quite sure whether I will go for the MVA/cPVA or the PLS display, let's wait and see.
 
If the pls panel proves to be decent enough, it's likely that other companies such as nec, eizo, dell, hp, etc will use it in their own displays.
 
BrePu said:
As an addition to a 2490WUXi1 the SA850 should be pretty decent, but one of the lower end 27" displays with a MVA/cPVA panel they announced could be the cheaper alternative for your needs. With the same resolution and higher contrast vs less color accuracy and more input lag and/or response time, I'm still not quite sure whether I will go for the MVA/cPVA or the PLS display, let's wait and see.
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Hmm, I didn't know there was a VA panel coming in that size and resolution too? Don't remember seeing it on that chart on the official website. Either way, the gamma shift is bad enough on current 23" cPVA panels. No way I'd tolerate it on such a wide display as a 27" 16:9 after being used to IPS image stability.
 
@BrePu : The NEC is using LG displays too ( 2490WUXi has LG LM240wu1(sl)(a1) panel ), but the `crappy` thing is not the panel, but the all other things (electronic, backlight, panel coating) which makes the overall feeling bad in nowadays xIPS monitors. For example: monitor equipped with `inferior` e-IPS coupled with all the good things from 2490wuxi, would be also awesome...

Also, as stated Walker, I wont switch to anything which is not on par in terms of IQ of IPS panel, so thats no-no to xVA.
 
News guys:

- an youtube vid, that shows sa850 from off angle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkHRGVnDXwA&feature=player_embedded

- more pics:
SA850-back.png

SA850-side.png

SA850.png


ADD: the design looks damn good :cool:
 
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GUYS it's freaking semi-glossy! No AG coating rape on this one! I'm so buying one of those. Still not sure whether I should go with the 850 or one of the 650s. I cannot even believe this is true, I didn't see a single display out there fitting my needs for almost 2 years now... and suddenly I have more options than I need!
 
BrePu said:
GUYS it's freaking semi-glossy! No AG coating rape on this one! I'm so buying one of those. Still not sure whether I should go with the 850 or one of the 650s. I cannot even believe this is true, I didn't see a single display out there fitting my needs for almost 2 years now... and suddenly I have more options than I need!
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Amen to that semi-glossy :) New reason to buy this :)
 
Wow, does anyone know if the SA850 has HDMI??? If it does, this display is a dream come true.
 
that looks very goood... I am going to wait for these to come out before purchasing a new monitor
 
The viewing angles seem good, although I wish they showed it on a dark background. The design is very nice, far ahead of most current IPS monitors. Also, as long as it's not very reflective, semi glossy is OK too. My main worry is edge lit LED and how it's going to affect screen uniformity. No much point in having wide viewing angles/stable image if uniformity sucks. If that turns out not to be an issue I could see myself getting one of these even if it ends up costing more than an U2711.
 
It definitely looks quite glossy in the vid, can clearly see reflections on even the white background.
 
With those lightning conditions even an AG raped display would show reflections. Well I guess there are people who prefer completely destroyed colors over some minor reflections, but I personally think the semi-glossy coating is the best solution out there at the moment. I would even love to see something similar to the display of my MacBook Air, it's hard to describe but it's neigher AG coating nor glass. Reflections look purple-ish and I can work with it in direct sunlight pretty acceptable and whites are completely clear. The SA850 uses a different approach, but I hope the result is similar.
 
Light AG is often a very good compromise.

I have light AG on my Samsung TV. I never see reflections sitting straight on, but the glossy bezel shows them like crazy (as would a glossy panel).

But at an extreme angle like in that vid I can see reflections even on a white background.

So if it is like my TV that would be quite good IMO. Best of both worlds.
 
this is my hypothesis : every glossy coating improves color perception to human eye (of course only with the proper surround lighting) and it somewhat improves significantly the black levels(also only at good surrounding lighting), so Samsung realizes that and makes hybrid - semiglossy coating, which doesn`t shows so strong surrounding reflections as full glossy ones and yet it improves the color perception more than matte coating. So all in all, it is possible that we have "next" NEC 20WGX2 which was at that time ( and in these times also ) an outstanting performer with AS-IPS (pre H-IPS) panel with full glossy coating.
 
Well long as its not as glossy as the Apple 27 inch. That's way to glossy for me. Other then that it looks pretty awesome. I think its going to be expensive though - no sign of cost cutting with the aluminum bezel/stand - sleek look etc. I will probably get one though. I was considering the HP 30 inch one before this. But the wide gamut + strong anti-reflective coating turn me off.
 
Well this is actually pretty exciting :) I just wonder if black levels and contrast will be any better than current IPS panel displays.
 
The current choices of too much anti-glare or too much gloss is highly frustrating for someone like me in the market for an IPS monitor. :confused:

Samsung's SA850 certainly appears to solve this dilemma in a sensible and stealthy package that focuses the attention on the display panel itself.

Even if it came with a slightly stiff price, I would seriously consider the SA850. If competition in this segment is heating up, prices may be reasonable. Consider the soon-to-be-released Hazro HZ27WC (27", sRGB, 2560x1440) for 399 pounds as one of the competitors and perhaps there's a good chance for a good price.

I believe that ultimately monitors for the masses will sport the features of IPS and PLS, etc. monitors and therefore prices should start coming down at some point. While they are marketing these monitors to discerning business professionals who need the good stuff, expect prices to remain fairly high. However, I am encouraged by so many gamers who are willing to invest in these high-end monitors and I feel the monitor makers should start to widen their target demographic accordingly and adjust the prices downwards accordingly. Not sure if my take on this is accurate, but this is how I see it anyway. :p

Here's hoping that the SA850 will be available REALLY soon and that it will meet all our expectations and then some! :cool:
 
Can't understand if this PLS technology will replace the PVA/IPS tech used in professional monitors (Eizo/NEC).
 
So this is going to look similar to the newer phones with OLED screens? I mean, in terms of brightness and eye-popping colors..... I really enjoy the AMOLED screens a lot.
 
This has nothing to do with amoled, it's just a variation of in plane switching tech. Plus, those eye popping colors are hardly accurate :rolleyes:
 
sblantipodi said:
Can't understand if this PLS technology will replace the PVA/IPS tech used in professional monitors (Eizo/NEC).
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It is possibly LED driven, so at this time, no.

I like how pcmonitors.org states that the SA850 might have a semi gloss finish, which apparently is "good news for the hordes of people who are put off by the ‘grainy’ effect that many IPS monitors with aggressive anti-glare coatings produce." whereby 'hordes' refers to some people he met here before he was banned. And of course this is the pressing item that you have to fact check with Samsung, not, you know, what backlight type it uses or what colour depth the panel can output.
 
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Banned for what?

Semi-glossy looks kinda weird/pixely IMO. The BenQ EW2420 had it, it seemed weird compared to a full glossy screen and one with light AG.
 
steal said:
Well this is actually pretty exciting :) I just wonder if black levels and contrast will be any better than current IPS panel displays.
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Doubtful. If you go to Samsungs Panel spec page, the PLS screens are listed at 1000:1 contrast, the same as IPS panels.
 
NCX said:
Semi-glossy looks kinda weird/pixely IMO. The BenQ EW2420 had it, it seemed weird compared to a full glossy screen and one with light AG.
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Sorry but that's just wrong. What we are calling semi-glossy is nothing else than light anti-glare coating. The MacBook Air uses a different approach with neither AG coating nor glass, but PLS has just a lighter AG coating than LG IPS.

And whether or not a display looks "pixely" isn't determined by the AG coating at all but by pixel density and subpixel structure. I would really appreciate if you guys would stop writing about stuff you don't have any clue of.

With the pixel density of the SA850 and a semi-glossy coating we will see a crisp and wonderful image. If you want to flame this display go for the backlight or something else we don't know anything about yet...
 
Snowdog said:
Doubtful. If you go to Samsungs Panel spec page, the PLS screens are listed at 1000:1 contrast, the same as IPS panels.
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Snowdog, thats for sure :) But I have yet some belief, that this SA850 maybe the case as was NEC 20WGX2, do you remember ? It has official 700:1 CR and with its propetiary "DVM mode" it was supposed to have 1400:1 (after calibration on mine it has ~1200:1 with DVM ) BUT, it was mainly achieved thanks to glossy coating. So I think, that this semi-glossy coating on SA850 may do some similiar tricks as the NEC`s Opticlear coating.
 
3d_vlk said:
Snowdog, thats for sure :) But I have yet some belief, that this SA850 maybe the case as was NEC 20WGX2, do you remember ? It has official 700:1 CR and with its propetiary "DVM mode" it was supposed to have 1400:1 (after calibration on mine it has ~1200:1 with DVM ) BUT, it was mainly achieved thanks to glossy coating. So I think, that this semi-glossy coating on SA850 may do some similiar tricks as the NEC`s Opticlear coating.
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No, the real contrast of the NEC was ~700:1. I doubt you will find a review measuring the real contrast of even 700. I remember it was about ~650.

The >1000 was the ever lame Dynamic Contrast. Nothing to do with Glossy coating.
 
BrePu said:
With the pixel density of the SA850 and a semi-glossy coating we will see a crisp and wonderful image. If you want to flame this display go for the backlight or something else we don't know anything about yet...
Click to expand...

Thats right, the 16:9 24" 1920x1080 of EW2420 is just bad, with density of 8428 pixels / sq. inch, or pixel pitch of 0.2767. I personally wont go lower than pp 0.2692 of 16:10 24", which is just 5% difference than 16:9 equivalent, but for sure it is looking much better. For me the best pixel pitch is at my 20wgx2 (0.2564) and this SA850 has even better 0.2335, and it is physically ~ height of 24" 16:10, but little wider which is also plus ( I dont want more height than 24" 16:10 )
 
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Snowdog said:
No, the real contrast of the NEC was ~700:1. I doubt you will find a review measuring the real contrast of even 700. I remember it was about ~650.

The >1000 was the ever lame Dynamic Contrast. Nothing to do with Glossy coating.
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Yes, I said it has official( or real if you want) 700:1. But the ever lame DR ( or the "DVM mode" ) was much better than in the 20wgx2 competitors. And imho - its glossy coating created impressive optical illusion of deeper blacks with activated DR at every lighting condition except the totally darkened room ( with only 20wgx running ).
 
3d_vlk said:
Yes, I said it has official( or real if you want) 700:1. But the ever lame DR ( or the "DVM mode" ) was much better than in the 20wgx2 competitors. And imho - its glossy coating created impressive optical illusion of deeper blacks with activated DR at every lighting condition except the totally darkened room ( with only 20wgx running ).
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Glossy is a polarizing choice. A minority love it and a majority hate it (in 4 or 5 polls in this forum). So you can keep your optical illusion. Reflections don't look darker to me. Real black shows nothing, no light escaping, black hole. Shiny reflections on it ruin it.

This should be quite a good compromise, with a light AG coating to eliminate reflections, but less AG shimmer on white will be the major benefit. Those in love with shiny reflections on their blacks will likely be disappointed. :D
 
Snowdog said:
Glossy is a polarizing choice. A minority love it and a majority hate it (in 4 or 5 polls in this forum). So you can keep your optical illusion. Reflections don't look darker to me. Real black shows nothing, no light escaping, black hole. Shiny reflections on it ruin it.

This should be quite a good compromise, with a light AG coating to eliminate reflections, but less AG shimmer on white will be the major benefit. Those in love with shiny reflections on their blacks will likely be disappointed. :D
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Haha, funny :) Yeah, thats personal taste for sure, does it makes me strange that I love both - the matte of 2490wuxi and glossy 20wgx2 ? :)
 
The reason for the crappy black levels of today's IPS panels isn't the 1000:1 contrast. IPS has an issue called white glow. Older NEC IPS panels used the A-TW polarizer to greatly improve their black levels by getting rid of this white glow. If PLS uses a similar approach to the A-TW polarizer black levels could be perfect. If it doesn't they won't.

Contrast ratio doesn't take viewing angle effects like the white glow into account at all. It estimates how black your black is at the best viewing position possible - right in front of the display at the center of the screen. And I cannot speak for everyone, but in my opinion my U2711 has great blacks in the center of the screen with its 1000:1 contrast ratio. The only issue is the white glow, it would ruin the blacks even on a display with 3000:1 contrast. You can hope that Samsung has something to fix this issue, but there's no guarantee and no number will be able to tell you the answer, you have to see it with your human eye.
 
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