Samsung intros IPS competitor: PLS

GuyClinch

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The scaler will be the achilles heel of this monitor I think - I probably will get one for my g/f anyway though. I don't think she will notice any input lag as she plays mmporgs/roleplaying/strategy games mostly.
 

Ashok0

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Does this even have a scaler? I actually sort of hope it does, to be honest. I loved the hardware scaler on the DELL U3011. If there was any input lag, I absolutely could NOT see it, even with the U3011 running in clone mode side by side with a TN.
 

GuyClinch

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It's the chip that upscales/downscales images to fit properly on your monitor. Its not needed if you have a graphics card as the scalar in that is usually far more powerful. But people who hook up say xbox 360 or even a cable box would really like it..
 

Cyane

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So, does anyone have any information regarding release date and pricing of Samsung`s new PLS monitors? More specifically, the 27`one... SA 850 I believe?

I only just now after how many years switched from my CRT to an old 4:3 17" NEC, so I'm very eager to go widescreen and I think this is the one.
 

sblantipodi

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Seems to have scaler - check this slide:

http://www.computerbase.de/bildstrecke/32560/7/

Many people aren't that senstive to input lag - so it not a big deal for most but its a turn off for some buyers.
what the point with scaler and input lag?
gamers play at native resolutions and it doesn't use the scaler, if scaler is needed because someone don't want to play at native resolution, every graphics cards have a scaler, so what's the point?
 

Ashok0

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what the point with scaler and input lag?
gamers play at native resolutions and it doesn't use the scaler, if scaler is needed because someone don't want to play at native resolution, every graphics cards have a scaler, so what's the point?
Well, for PC use yes, a scaler isn't terribly important --- but having a hardware scaler is kind of nice for older PC games i.e. StarCraft or Diablo where the resolutions are locked to 640x480 in software. And some people like using their monitors with their cable boxes, Xbox 360s, or Playstation 3s. Those devices don't run native at 2560x1440, so a scaler is required.
 

sblantipodi

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Well, for PC use yes, a scaler isn't terribly important --- but having a hardware scaler is kind of nice for older PC games i.e. StarCraft or Diablo where the resolutions are locked to 640x480 in software. And some people like using their monitors with their cable boxes, Xbox 360s, or Playstation 3s. Those devices don't run native at 2560x1440, so a scaler is required.
ah ok, :)
 

kasakka

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what the point with scaler and input lag?
gamers play at native resolutions and it doesn't use the scaler, if scaler is needed because someone don't want to play at native resolution, every graphics cards have a scaler, so what's the point?
2560x1440 needs a pretty beefy graphics card. I usually use 1920x1080 on my 30" 2560x1600 Dell 3008WFP because my GTX260 can't handle all games at the highest res but also because of the wider FOV available in most new games when run in 1080p.

The scaler is important because frankly the graphics card scaling is rubbish. I don't know if the newer ATI and Nvidia cards do it better, but my GTX260 is noticeably blurrier than using the Dell 3008WFP's own scaler.

I'm not bothered by input lag with this display (A02 revision) and can't notice any difference to my TV that is supposed to have really low input lag.
 

GuyClinch

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It's not a make or break issue for me personally - I am not a hardcore enough gamer to really worry about the input lag and I likely won't hook up an XBOX or PS3 to it. But from Samsung's perspective it makes the monitor more attractive..

It should scale up 720p content great as its a 1440p monitor..so you can just double the pixels. So it makes sense they included it. It's not clear its going to be great for graphics proffessionals but should really compete well with the Dell and Apple "high quality" monitors for the masses..IMHO.
 

ToMMyGuN

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So, does anyone have any information regarding release date and pricing of Samsung`s new PLS monitors? More specifically, the 27`one... SA 850 I believe?

I only just now after how many years switched from my CRT to an old 4:3 17" NEC, so I'm very eager to go widescreen and I think this is the one.
Anyone know anything about price?
 

GuyClinch

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Spring release - whatever that means. Hopefully they don't need any parts from factories in Japan that were impacted by the quake. Even though its mostly korean they might use some Japanese parts.
 

GuyClinch

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This news is all of woe...
1. WLED vs. CCFL. That's really what is going on here. It's not clear at all that CCFL is better then edgelit WLED for consumer oriented displays. CCFL might have slightly wider gamut - but WLED is thought to be brighter and allow for better contrast.

2. Haze? Yeah this sounds like crap. And if it is crap I won't buy this monitor. OTOH it might not be as bad as it sounds as the prototype looked fine in videos - kinda semi glossy.

Most users are hoping this display represents a good alternative to the Apple one - that seems to be what Samsung is going for too. Thin stylish - with alot of pixels and pretty good image quality. Yeah its not RGB LED backlit but you won't find alot of monitors at Samsung/Dell price point that are.. Dell's is CCFL no?
 

sblantipodi

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1. WLED vs. CCFL. That's really what is going on here. It's not clear at all that CCFL is better then edgelit WLED for consumer oriented displays. CCFL might have slightly wider gamut - but WLED is thought to be brighter and allow for better contrast.

2. Haze? Yeah this sounds like crap. And if it is crap I won't buy this monitor. OTOH it might not be as bad as it sounds as the prototype looked fine in videos - kinda semi glossy.

Most users are hoping this display represents a good alternative to the Apple one - that seems to be what Samsung is going for too. Thin stylish - with alot of pixels and pretty good image quality. Yeah its not RGB LED backlit but you won't find alot of monitors at Samsung/Dell price point that are.. Dell's is CCFL no?
White LED from an edge is simply the worst scenario you can have on a monitor,
so please don't compare it to a good CCFL.
 

Pultzar

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White LED from an edge is simply the worst scenario you can have on a monitor,
so please don't compare it to a good CCFL.
What is the main downside?

Perhaps it is time to bite the bullet, stop waiting, and buy the 3011... :|
 

NCX

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LED typically=Poor screen uniformity+blue tint and backlight bleeding.

LED is not any brighter than CCFL, or easier on the eyes, and it doesn't give better contrast. This is just marketing BS and comments from ignorant users.
 

xorbe

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What is the main downside?
White leds usually aren't as good as separate rgb leds (pure rgb points vs wide range with various peakiness). Edge lighting is for product thinness only, and can cause cloudiness and contrast loss, though I'm not sure about the exact method of edge lighting construction to speak authoritatively on the subject.
 
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Peteman100

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White LED backlighting has improved a lot recently. I'm still hopefully that this thing can look pretty good. RGB LEDs have only been used on a few super high end LCDs. So not a really fair comparison.
 

GuyClinch

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^^^The truth is a bit more complicated then you are getting here. The use of WLED does not automatically disqualify the PLS from being a good monitor. I honestly wish it did as then I could just go buy the 30 inch HP and save myself the trouble.

WLED can be very good - LEDs really are brighter - they don't dim over time - they can be locally dimmed. Some people swear they have better viewing angles and are more glare resistant but I haven't seen any tests verfying that.

They can lead to monitors with a higher contrast ratio. I been reading a bit about WLED after hearing this news and was hoping to disqualify this Samsung. No such luck -notebook users were some of the first to make this switch and with these guys its almost always RGBLED > WLED > CCFL.

As for the screen uniformity and backlight bleed - that does depend on the implementation. I have seen some really bleeding and awful CCFL displays as well as some decent WLED ones.

Many new notebooks have WLED displays and many of them look quite excellent IMHO. We just aren't going to know until the monitor comes out and gets tested. Samsung has alot of experience with edge lit LED monitors/tvs so maybe they will do a good job.
 

Ashok0

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I never really understood the controversy surrounding WLED and CCFL. I bought the Apple LED Cinema Display (WLED) and the DELL U3011 (CCFL) and to me, other than the fact the Apple was glossy, both displays looked the same. And I didn't find color uniformity or blacklight bleeding to be an issue for either the Apple or the DELL. Heck, I would happily buy any "semi-glossy" WLED or CCFL monitor that looked as good as those two.
 

GuyClinch

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^^^Yeah you don't see much difference between those two - not sure if the ACD is lit with one edge though. That does sound scary but it still might work.

I'd also point out the thin monitor means you can probably mount it fine on those cheap but kinda nice Monoprice LCD mounts - which would make multi monitor set ups pretty easy. Truth is people just like sleek and thin. So this is to be expected. The HP monitors look clunky and old fashioned in comparison to this new one or an ACD.
 

alienate

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Are there even any monitors that use RGB LED lighting? Thought it was so expensive it was only worth putting on the largest (46+) high end TV's?
 

wagsrules

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Are there even any monitors that use RGB LED lighting? Thought it was so expensive it was only worth putting on the largest (46+) high end TV's?
HP has one. Don't remember the model off the top of my head. It is expensive. Dell has also used RGB led in a few laptops as an option.
 

SXTC

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Well, for PC use yes, a scaler isn't terribly important --- but having a hardware scaler is kind of nice for older PC games i.e. StarCraft or Diablo where the resolutions are locked to 640x480 in software. And some people like using their monitors with their cable boxes, Xbox 360s, or Playstation 3s. Those devices don't run native at 2560x1440, so a scaler is required.
I do not agree, by now everyone still playing games such as Diablo & Starcraft wich are VERY VERY OLD, should be ashamed ;) (diablo for example was released in 1996).
I personally have never met anyone that plays a game longer then 6 years wich to me is the absolute max (with expansions).

That is also the reason why I am not prepared to pay more for a monitor for this options because PC monitors are allready overpriced as it is.
 

DaFox

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I do not agree, by now everyone still playing games such as Diablo & Starcraft wich are VERY VERY OLD, should be ashamed ;) (diablo for example was released in 1996).
I personally have never met anyone that plays a game longer then 6 years wich to me is the absolute max (with expansions).
I just played through Starcraft last year, Diablo two weeks ago and I have like 5 friends that started up Diablo 2 with dozens of thousands of others when the ladder reset last week.

Old games still rock and no one should ever be ashamed for going back and playing the classics!
 

cvgd

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Are there even any monitors that use RGB LED lighting? Thought it was so expensive it was only worth putting on the largest (46+) high end TV's?
HP Dreamcolor, Samsung XL20, XL24, and XL30, and NEC 2180.

http://www.legendmicro.com/store/6717_Samsung-XL20-20in-LCD-LED-backlight-Monitor-XL20.lmsp?RID=23
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001265
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001266

http://necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/lcd2180wg-led-bk
 

Whoisthisreally

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yes and it is neither good enough to compete with the other Eizo/NEC monitors in that category that uses CCFL.
Quato uses the RGB LED IPS panel in the IP240 LED Excellence. Still, I do wonder why Eizo and NEC elected for the CCFL panel over the more uniform and wider gamut LED unit.
 

GuyClinch

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RGB LED has some issues as well..

Specifically, the white color point maintenance is a stringent requirement in many applications. Meeting this requirement is a severe challenge due to the variation in the optical characteristics of the RGB-LEDs with temperature, time and forward current and the spread in the LED performance. This results in 1) an unacceptably high variability in white light color point and 2) difficulties in manufacturing reproducible LED lamps.
None of the technologies are that perfect... If you are selling a monitor for perfect color and say the blue LED starts to put out less light that's a pretty big problem. It's less of an issue for a consumer grade monitor IMHO because they weren't counting on putting out perfect color in the first place.

CCFL suffer with time as well - but they put out less light - but its pretty much the same kind of light as far as I know. As I said before it makes alot of sense that Samsung would choose this route.

If we get an Apple monitor with a scaler, that's PC friendly and has less glare - that's a win for Samsung and alot of sales IMHO. I think they are leaving the professional color world to NEC/LaCie/Eizo who will be welcome to use their panel with a different backlight..
 

Inu

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Diablo 2 = sucks. Duped items + forum gold = bored in two weeks.
 

albovin

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Are there even any monitors that use RGB LED lighting? Thought it was so expensive it was only worth putting on the largest (46+) high end TV's?
Nothing on consumer market. They have no practical value.
A few discontinued Samsung models were total fiasco.
HP Dreamcolor is an overpriced unsuccessful model with bad reviews.
TVs are different animals. Requirements for monitors are much higher.
 

SXTC

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Diablo 2 = sucks. Duped items + forum gold = bored in two weeks.
It suprises me too that some people still play diablo after the last patch they unleased on the game, entirely demolishing what fun was left in its gameplay. I diabolish the thought alone of starting up that game ever again... me as a gamer, I always want better graphics and better sound so there's no way I'm gona crawl back into that ancient gutter.

Anyway to get back on topic, is there a 27" out there with 1920x1200 res that has exellent repsonse and graphics (with lower pixel pitch then 300)? IPS if possible but I'm guessing that by now they are still slow?
Asking this since I read about new sorts of IPS panels being on the market since of this year.
 

Walker

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Anyway to get back on topic, is there a 27" out there with 1920x1200 res that has exellent repsonse and graphics (with lower pixel pitch then 300)? IPS if possible but I'm guessing that by now they are still slow?
Asking this since I read about new sorts of IPS panels being on the market since of this year.
You can't have a large display with relatively small resolution and low pixel pitch. The size of a pixel on an LCD is "fixed", it doesn't quite work the same way as it did on CRTs if you know what I mean. In order to have smaller pixels you need higher resolution.
 
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