Samsung intros IPS competitor: PLS

albovin said:
XL was an attempt to produce expensive "high end" RGB LED monitors (20", 24", 30"). Resulted in total failure.
"XL" is now related to their regular low end (TN) screens.
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Not sure where mine falls in, probably the latter, assuming the initial attempt your referring to was an IPS. The TN panel I own ran $300 new and produced excellent reviews, which I can attest to. Not sure if you are using TN synonymously with "low end" because as TN's go, this one is certainly not "low end".

While I'm at it, I was visiting my brother out in Colorado and he showed me his Dell U2410 (which I almost bought instead of the XL2370). My first thought was, why does this screen look grainy and crappy? I didn't say anything because he is uber sensitive about his purchases but I mentioned it to the GF and she thought the same thing. It wasn't until MUCH later I learned about the AG coating, I thought maybe I was crazy or he did something to adjust the settings. I'm not trying to fan the flames here, but I couldn't live with the AG coating and I certainly wouldn't downplay the coating as a minor grievance that only affects a few people, I would draw a parallel between this and glossy screens personally (something else I couldn't live with). For a minute I thought maybe it was something that goes hand in hand with IPS panels but I soon learned it wasn't. For all the strengths this monitor has, they seem muted or negated by this grainy texture.
 
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Ashok0,

You keep launching attacks on LG's quality, using their AG coating as a spring board for your anecdotal opinions, stating them as fact, etc....and then calling people who like IPS infatuated fanbois.

The truth is, we don't know what PLS will bring, and if it's great, great, but if it's not, sucks. Additionally, both LG and Samsung are two of the top panel manufacturers in the world, so if either one of their quality sucked (as you put forth) they wouldn't be there.

At the end of the day, I guarantee you that it's not going to be any paradigm shifting, LG killing, game changing technology. It's going to simply be another alternative and hopefully a good one.

But it's still revision 1.0 from a manufacturer who is 8 years behind in this particular type of LCD, so chill out because miracles are for bibles.

I can tell you that I've owned at least 7 IPS monitors, as well as 10 or so of other tech screens in the last 3.5 to 4 years and not all IPS AG coatings are the same, and not all other manufacturers are better.

So let's get back to our waiting, and waiting......and waiting for PLS. I'm personally more interested in the 24" unless the 27" PLS panel shows far better characteristics.
 
Ashok0 said:
Snowdog,

:confused: No one here is trying to "flame" LG. The fact is, unlike other manufacturers, LG does use an aggressive coating on their panels that does create a "grain" effect. This is a fact. I have used several MATTE displays such as the U2711 and the Hans-G HW191APB. Sitting side by side, both monitors had no reflections. None. Doing a side by side comparison, the U2711 was very grainy and text had a very aggressive "crystalline" appearance. This is a fact. The HW191APB on the other hand was crystal clear. Text on the HW191 was much clearer than text on the U2711. This is a fact. LG IPS panels do create higher than typical visual image distortion due to LG's specific surface treatment processes. This is a fact.
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I agree with Snowdog that a few AG zealots trolling every thread are quite annoying.
There is a point where AG issue ends and AG BS begins.

Example.

Doing a side by side comparison, the U2711 was very grainy and text had a very aggressive "crystalline" appearance. This is a fact.
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Yes, this is a fact. It's well known what "crystalline effect" is and how it appears - mostly related to text work on a massive white background. It's present on EVERY matte panel, and is more visible on some (not all) IPS panels. The smaller the dot pitch the more visible effect is. However, there are some ways to minimize it.
Some users don't like it.
The majority of users don't care.


LG IPS panels do create higher than typical visual image distortion due to LG's specific surface treatment processes. This is a fact.
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No, this is not a fact. This is BS.
The best available professional monitors with highest image quality one can get now use LG IPS panels with matte AG coating. Again: with "aggressive" AG coating. One more time: with "crystalline effect".
That's a fact.

There is nothing wrong with anyone buying product X or Y, but that isn't the issue of discussion.
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Absolutely. You and I - we'll buy what we want.
The issue is thread crapping.
 
albovin said:
No, this is not a fact. This is BS.
The best available professional monitors with highest image quality one can get now use LG IPS panels with matte AG coating. Again: with "aggressive" AG coating. One more time: with "crystalline effect".
That's a fact.
Click to expand...

Companies such as Samsung can eliminate glare without visible image degradation. This is something that LG flat out cannot do with their IPS panels. Early previewers of the Samsung SA850 have confirmed that while the display does have some backlight bleed issues, the haze treatment Samsung uses on their 2560x1440 panels exhibits no reflections and has no "crystalline effect". Unless the early previewers are bluffing, this is a pretty major breakthrough.

Currently, an ideal "dream" display would be one with the excellent color uniformity and minimal backlight bleed of an LG IPS panel, with the haze surface treatment Samsung is using on their PLS line. While you're saying "LG panels are pretty good" I'm simply saying "Let's make them even better". There is nothing preventing LG from upgrading their IPS line with the haze treatment Samsung is implementing on their PLS line. All LG has to do it flip the switch. :)
 
Katotonic said:
Not sure where mine falls in, probably the latter, assuming the initial attempt your referring to was an IPS. The TN panel I own ran $300 new and produced excellent reviews, which I can attest to. Not sure if you are using TN synonymously with "low end" because as TN's go, this one is certainly not "low end".

While I'm at it, I was visiting my brother out in Colorado and he showed me his Dell U2410 (which I almost bought instead of the XL2370).
Click to expand...

XLs were PVA.
TN is low-end. This is how it goes. Why should all TN reviews be bad? Some of TNs are quite good and can be used for what they are suitable for. Pretty normal.
A year ago $300 was a typical price for a low-end monitor (TN). I have one of them. Not a bad one.
$500-650 used to be mid-range, and high-end were around $1000.
I prefer minimal AG coating.

I don't know why you talk to me about U2410.
I have never recommended it. I stopped my cooperation with anandtech when they decided to recommend it.
 
Ashok0 said:
Companies such as Samsung can eliminate glare without visible image degradation. This is something that LG flat out cannot do with their IPS panels. Early previewers of the Samsung SA850 have confirmed that while the display does have some backlight bleed issues, the haze treatment Samsung uses on their 2560x1440 panels exhibits no reflections and has no "crystalline effect". Unless the early previewers are bluffing, this is a pretty major breakthrough.

Currently, an ideal "dream" display would be one with the excellent color uniformity and minimal backlight bleed of an LG IPS panel, with the haze surface treatment Samsung is using on their PLS line. While you're saying "LG panels are pretty good" I'm simply saying "Let's make them even better". There is nothing preventing LG from upgrading their IPS line with the haze treatment Samsung is implementing on their PLS line. All LG has to do it flip the switch. :)
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That might be an upgrade for you in your dark bedroom, it would be a nightmare for anyone working in a room with any type of bright, directional light. Make no mistake any screen without AG coating is going to reflect harshly, even "semi" glossy.
 
albovin said:
XLs were PVA.
TN is low-end. This is how it goes. Why should all TN reviews be bad? Some of TNs are quite good and can be used for what they are suitable for. Pretty normal.
A year ago $300 was a typical price for a low-end monitor (TN). I have one of them. Not a bad one.
$500-650 used to be mid-range, and high-end were around $1000.
I prefer minimal AG coating.

I don't know why you talk to me about U2410.
I have never recommended it. I stopped my cooperation with anandtech when they decided to recommend it.
Click to expand...

Should clarify, the Dell U2410 comment wasn't directed at you, just a comment on the discussion. I will concede that TN is on the low end, as it pertains to price, as far as the quality of the actual product (depending on your needs) a more in depth analysis is required. For instance, my brother paid twice as much for his monitor, yet it suffers from tinting, glowing and AG grain, not to mention a lack of contrast and slow response times. From his point of view he gets better colors, consistency, and viewing angles (apparently in case he wants to sit on the side of desk, rather than in front of his monitor). Having used his monitor I can say that for me, all the advantages it had were vastly overshadowed by it's flaws. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just not sure what qualifies as high end, seems subjective at best.

However, I'm not going to sit here and say that a $300 TN panel should be considered anything other than what it is. Feel free to address anything I said, but I'm just trying to get a grasp on this whole IPS craze.
 
Ashok0 said:
The fact is, unlike other manufacturers, LG does use an aggressive coating on their panels that does create a "grain" effect.
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It's not a "coating" LG puts on their panel. It's the surface treatment on the front polarizer on the LCD panel. That surface treatment is the way the polarizer maker (Nitto Denko or whoever) makes the polarizer. It's typically measured in terms of "haze". Since apparently you don't have even a basic understanding of the components used in a LCD panel why should anyone trust your little misguided temper tantrums?
 
10e said:
Ashok0,

You keep launching attacks on LG's quality, using their AG coating as a spring board for your anecdotal opinions, stating them as fact, etc....and then calling people who like IPS infatuated fanbois.

The truth is, we don't know what PLS will bring, and if it's great, great, but if it's not, sucks. Additionally, both LG and Samsung are two of the top panel manufacturers in the world, so if either one of their quality sucked (as you put forth) they wouldn't be there.

At the end of the day, I guarantee you that it's not going to be any paradigm shifting, LG killing, game changing technology. It's going to simply be another alternative and hopefully a good one.

But it's still revision 1.0 from a manufacturer who is 8 years behind in this particular type of LCD, so chill out because miracles are for bibles.

I can tell you that I've owned at least 7 IPS monitors, as well as 10 or so of other tech screens in the last 3.5 to 4 years and not all IPS AG coatings are the same, and not all other manufacturers are better.

So let's get back to our waiting, and waiting......and waiting for PLS. I'm personally more interested in the 24" unless the 27" PLS panel shows far better characteristics.
Click to expand...

Samsung is comming out with more new MVA panels then PLS, so even they don't see PLS as a game changer. They seem to be throwing stuff at the wall to see what stics. cPVA, MVA, PLS,... I know they are a big company and want to cover different market segments, but they do not have a strong comitment to any segment or tech. If they get rid of the dam white glow, then they will be my hero, but I am not holding my breath, because the initial sample does not look all that promising.

As you suggested in a previous post, Samsung is a lot more focused on TVs than computer monitors, because that is where the money is.
 
Ashok0 said:
This is something that LG flat out cannot do with their IPS panels.
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Yes they can, and they have shown this earlier on now discontinued monitors. It is actually up the customer (Qisda/Dell, HP etc.) to discuss surface treatment details with the display panel manufacturer, who then can supply what the customer demands - it's all just a question of order amount and price.
 
there's many IPS fanboy in this thread.

the new S-PLS with his coating will have a big advantage than IPS.
is impossible to justify the IPS coating, is BAD and STOP !
 
daveswantek said:
Samsung is coming out with more new MVA panels then PLS, so even they don't see PLS as a game changer. They seem to be throwing stuff at the wall to see what stics. cPVA, MVA, PLS,... I know they are a big company and want to cover different market segments, but they do not have a strong comitment to any segment or tech. If they get rid of the dam white glow, then they will be my hero, but I am not holding my breath, because the initial sample does not look all that promising.

As you suggested in a previous post, Samsung is a lot more focused on TVs than computer monitors, because that is where the money is.
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Yeah I hope so. Their S-PVA panels are far better than the A-MVA panels from AUO and S-MVA panels from CMO I've seen.

The AUO LED version has the LED with great black levels, but horrible, horrible pixel response.

I loved my 2709W.

If it had a usable sRGB mode it would still be sitting on my desk next to the LCD2690Wuxi I have.

But Samsung is trying to take back what they lost to LG > Dell, and what they are losing to LG too > HP.
 
Samsung is comming out with more new MVA panels then PLS, so even they don't see PLS as a game changer
Click to expand...

Galaxy Tab is PLS. Mobile > Desktop for all manufacturers now because of the fact that they don't see the desktop as a growth industry. It's weird but that's how it is.

And FWIW I have seen these so called 'professional' monitors at B&H here in NYC. Give me the glossy Apple display any day. The professional monitors are all about being color correct - and they will put up with heavy anti-glare on their monitors which IMHO makes it look like *ss. But what really kills these monitors is how boxy they are. This is what Apple noticed and went with WLED.

Regular users want crisp clear text and vibrant colors. That's the truth. I think they also want lack of color shift and wide viewing angles.. They also want a slick look. Correct colors is somewhere down the list..and FWIW according to xbit labs the colors on the PLS seem fine. It's pretty much an IPS with WLED backlighting and a normal TN style anti-glare finish. I think that's going to be a hit. Some people might want the boxy CCFL backlighting..but most will prefer the cheaper price.
 
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GuyClinch said:
Galaxy Tab is PLS. Mobile > Desktop for all manufacturers now because of the fact that they don't see the desktop as a growth industry. It's weird but that's how it is.

And FWIW I have seen these so called 'professional' monitors at B&H here in NYC. Give me the glossy Apple display any day. The professional monitors are all about being color correct - and they will put up with heavy anti-glare on their monitors which IMHO makes it look like *ss. But what really kills these monitors is how boxy they are. This is what Apple noticed and went with WLED.

Regular users want crisp clear text and vibrant colors. That's the truth. I think they also want lack of color shift and wide viewing angles.. They also want a slick look. Correct colors is somewhere down the list..and FWIW according to xbit labs the colors on the PLS seem fine. It's pretty much an IPS with WLED backlighting and a normal TN style anti-glare finish. I think that's going to be a hit. Some people might want the boxy CCFL backlighting..but most will prefer the cheaper price.
Click to expand...

I have two relatively high end monitors: The NEC LCD2690WUXi-BK and LCD2490WUXI2-BK. Neither has heavy anti-glare coating and both have good colors. The 26" obviously stronger because it's wide gamut, and doesn't have a usable sRGB mode, but the 24" is sRGB, and has a very good, balanced AG too.

All told, the 26" has one of the best AG coatings I've ever seen balancing out anti-glare and almost minimal noise. It is simply one of the most beautiful screens I've ever used, regardless of the fact that I prefer standard gamut versus wide. I cannot bring myself to let this monitor go, ever.

Regular users want crisp text and vibrant colors, but the bulk of the business world is against glossy, and that is still the number one market.

I am hoping the new PLS screens are decent.
 
GuyClinch said:
Galaxy Tab is PLS. Mobile > Desktop for all manufacturers now because of the fact that they don't see the desktop as a growth industry. It's weird but that's how it is.

And FWIW I have seen these so called 'professional' monitors at B&H here in NYC. Give me the glossy Apple display any day. The professional monitors are all about being color correct - and they will put up with heavy anti-glare on their monitors which IMHO makes it look like *ss. But what really kills these monitors is how boxy they are. This is what Apple noticed and went with WLED.

Regular users want crisp clear text and vibrant colors. That's the truth. I think they also want lack of color shift and wide viewing angles.. They also want a slick look. Correct colors is somewhere down the list..and FWIW according to xbit labs the colors on the PLS seem fine. It's pretty much an IPS with WLED backlighting and a normal TN style anti-glare finish. I think that's going to be a hit. Some people might want the boxy CCFL backlighting..but most will prefer the cheaper price.
Click to expand...

I hope PLS is a hit, but it cannot be a game changer if it is only targeted at a small segment of the computer display market.

Mobil displays are a different story entirely.
 
Monitor is available at macmall and buy.com any CONS about this monitor or any word on input lag i think its time for a good ol blind buy. Its either this or the HP ZR30W
 
Sotorious said:
Monitor is available at macmall and buy.com any CONS about this monitor or any word on input lag i think its time for a good ol blind buy. Its either this or the HP ZR30W
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Other than price? :rolleyes: I think backlight bleeding is the only negative seen in demo units so far. Hard to tell without more detailed reviews.

It's probably a minor thing for most, but Samsung seems to prefer enlarging the bottom bezel for buttons and whatever else. That can annoy someone (like me) considering monitors for portrait surround/eyefinity.
 
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Sold out of the intial run through I guess.. They were in stock early today I am pretty sure..
 
I can get to the "Place Order" page on macmall. Will probably wait till September anyway for wider availability and more competition between retailers for pricing.
 
NEWEGG has them for $899

Im considering getting one of these, has anyone bought on yet?
 
Anyone try this out yet?

I'm interested...I need a monitor and no point in blowing a couple thous on two fancy IPS when something will replace it soon enough.

Needless to say, I won't buy a Samsung, but I'll take their panel in something better!

Anyone try it?????
 
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