Samsung 950 PRO [Official Thread]

Discussion in 'SSDs & Data Storage' started by sblantipodi, Nov 6, 2015.

  1. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Honestly, it was probably the easiest fresh OS install I've ever done. Certainly not what I was expecting given the limited information I could find, but I've always run into some kind of issue when installing Windows. This was the first time where everything went smoothly and I didn't have to chase gremlins around.

    No custom BIOS was needed. I do have the latest BIOS, but since the board is so old I think the BIOS is like 5 years old. I did a completely clean install - no cloning. As I mentioned in my earlier post the only BIOS setting I messed around with was the "Addon ROM Display Mode" and I'm not even sure if that was necessary.

    Samsung's consumer NVME drives (the 950 Pro's) use a controller chip that is compatible with legacy BIOS systems. This means you shouldn't need UEFI to use it as a boot drive. I know there are at least one or two other people on other forums who were successful using the 950 Pro as a boot drive on X58. I haven't read about anyone who wasn't able to get it working, but that might just be due to the small number of people still running an X58 system.
     
  2. vics2121

    vics2121 n00b

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    So when you installed windows 10 did you unplug all other devices like sata 3 n 6 drives? Did you use a usb stick to load win 10 or a cdrom? I'm amazed how it found that device as bootable. Do you see the 950 in your storage device section of your bios and what is it named under bootable devices? Sorry for all the questions I just want to be sure this works.
     
  3. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I did unplug all my other SATA drives (old Samsung 840 EVO that was my previous storage drive) and an optical drive. Installed via USB using the Windows Media Creation tool. It shows up in the boot device list of my BIOS but I think it was listed as IDE for some reason. I'll reboot later and take a pic for you (just PM me if I forget to do it by tonight). I just remember seeing it in the BIOS the first time I turned the system on after plugging in the 950 Pro. I was just happy that it showed up so I went straight to installing Win 10. The drive was listed in the Win 10 installer so I just let Windows do its thing.
     
  4. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Here's a picture of my BIOS. The drive doesn't show up on any other screen.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  5. vics2121

    vics2121 n00b

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    Eric, Thanks for all the help. I will try this out and see how it goes. Do you get over 1000 read and close to 800 write on pcie 2.0?
     
  6. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sequential reads were over 1600 MB/s in CDM (pretty sure it's limited by PCI-e 2.0). Sequential writes over 900 MB/s. I had some throttling in some of the CDM benchmarks until I put some copper heatsinks on. Read some reviews that said the 950 Pro's SMART temperature may not be what the controller actually uses to base its throttling on, but I got a ~10C reduction on the SMART temperature per AIDA64. Also used an IR thermometer and saw roughly the same change based on surface temperatures.
     
  7. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    is that going through PCH? Pch is limited to 1600 on hw and some other gens. Sorry been busy so not sure what specs of system being talked about but thought i would mention that
     
  8. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not sure what PCH is? We're talking about using the 950 Pro as a boot drive on legacy BIOS systems...in my case, an Asus Rampage III Gene.
     
  9. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    is it going through regular PCIe or PCIe connected to the PCH?

    what gen CPU/MB are we talking about?
     
  10. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The drive is installed with a PCI-e adapter card that's plugged into a PCI-e 2.0 x4 slot. Still don't know what PCH is....I can tell you the SSD is not traveling down the Pacific Coast Highway, nor is it entering itself in any Publisher's Clearing House sweepstakes.
     
  11. -Dragon-

    -Dragon- 2[H]4U

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    Platform Controller Hub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Typically has 4 slower PCIe lanes associated with it, so if your other PCIe lanes are 3.0 and you're using the 2.0 then it's definitely going through the PCH, if it's the only 4 lane PCIe slot on the board, it's probably through the PCH
     
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  12. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    yea you are going through the PCH which is limited to ~1600MBps for HW...not sure what Z__ chipset you are using. The PCH also has more latency. So if you bench your SATA and M.2 you will see reduced performance on both as they are fighting for the 1600MBps.

    read this to see how the PCH has a bandwidth limit. This is using several SSDs in RAID 0 but the 950PRO is basically the same thing lol the future :D
    Results: RAID 0 Performance - Six SSD DC S3500 Drives And Intel's RST: Performance In RAID, Tested
     
  13. Eric1285

    Eric1285 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I don't think X58 uses PCH. It's ICH, unless that's a different thing. Never heard of PCH before, although I'm on a 6 year old system and I haven't built anything more recent.

    Anyhow, I always figured the ~1600 MB/s limit was due to PCI-e 2.0 bandwidth limitations. That's why I went with the 256GB instead of the 512GB, since I wouldn't really benefit too much from the extra speed on the larger drive.
     
  14. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    its possible but it could also be the ICH limits too. I cant find the ICH specs from a quick google so whatever.
     
  15. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Anyone know how to actually turn off ramdisk? I've ended the program and it still benches with speeds as if ramdisk is still running. I was trying to test the waterblock cooling on this thing over my air temps with the heat sinks but yea still getting the insane high numbers because of ramdisk. :-(
     
  16. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    uninstall the p[program?
     
  17. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't want to remove it I just want to turn it off to see what the water block does for cooling the ssd under full benchmark to see the improvement. Currently the temp doesn't change from 31C because it's running on ram disk the whole test.
     
  18. Eldata

    Eldata Limp Gawd

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    Look in task manager startup or task scheduler library to see if there's anything related that can be disabled. Regarding water blocks for SSDs....Did you imply that you're using one on a 950 Pro?
     
  19. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've ended any task that shows is related to Ramdisk. Guess I'll have to get on Asus chat. Yes I sure am.
     
  20. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    or just uninstall and reinstall....
     
  21. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well after an extensive joke of a night (Thank you Samsung Migration software) I'm finally up after you guessed it another fresh Win 10 OS install (Again thank you Samsung Migration Software). Got my new 950 Pro 256GB installed in my daily/media server.
    Not exactly happy with temps 58C max while running Crystal Mark. I think the higher temps hurt the benchmark. The 512GB ran cooler in my game rig with a pci-e expansion card and the heatsinks I'm currently using. I decided to go with a motherboard install in this build though. I don't want the extra card installed since the board has a m.2 slot on the front. I just don't have enough airflow I guess to keep it any cooler. I want a quite computer though so I'm not going to remove the voltage reducers from my fans to increase the fan speed.

    Should rapid mode be available in Samsung magician? It says not available for 840 Pro and up drives? My link speed according to Magician is 8X and it says that is the max. Link width though is x4 and bandwidth is 32Gbps. Which are the max. Idle temp now after typing this is 45C so the heatsinks are keeping the drive pretty cool considering but I would like the idle to be much lower.

    Can't install a Kryo m.2 in this computer as I'm running a closed loop H100i GTX so no expansion for another device and that would force me to install an expansion card which I don't want to do in this build as I mentioned.
    [​IMG]
     
  22. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    58C is perfect under load. assuming it is actually reading the temp regularly and accurately. How often does that refresh the temp?
     
  23. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not sure when you read the post I kept adding more lol. May wanna look over it again.

    It refreshes as fast as I can hit F5 or 1 minute. Which I hit F5 for a more accurate reading because a ton can happen in 1 minute.

    To just wait for the GC-Extreme to solidify some so I can turn my case rightside up :-(
     
  24. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    if your under 60C you are golden tl:dr response

    thats all i care about personally
     
  25. Eldata

    Eldata Limp Gawd

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    The lower the temperature the better, but the jury is still out as to what exactly is triggering throttling. I've seen throttling on a 512GB at 46C, so there's probably some other factor involved.
     
  26. SomeGuy133

    SomeGuy133 2[H]4U

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    hey guys i need to reinstall win7 on my 950 pro. Wasn't there a guide?
     
  27. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Not to dig up an old thread but is it normal for the performance to be down after long running windows installs or possibly because 25GB of free space?

    I just had a wild hair and ran my 950 Pro 256GB in my daily/media server. I'm not getting above 41C so it isn't throttling.
     

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  28. likeman

    likeman Gawd

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    Not really it's an MLC drive so full or empty it perform more or less the same
     
  29. geok1ng

    geok1ng 2[H]4U

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    Have you 950 PRO owners ever found another NVME drive with legacy bios support like the 950 pro? i am looking to buy a 512Gb 950 pro, but they are not so easy to find today.
     
  30. nofearek9

    nofearek9 n00b

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    from search online lot of forums i've saw that legacy bios have the following NVME SSDs :

    Samsung 950 Pro
    Plextor M8PEY
    Plextor M6e
    Kingston HyperX Predator

    BUT I have not tested them that actual work ,just saw other members confirm that they manage to boot with legacy bios.before buying i would contact the manufacturer just to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
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  31. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    So I'm still stumped as to why my 256gb is not performing properly. I've even cleared space down to only 47% vs only having about 32gb remaining yet still getting about the same results since I tested back in Jan. I'll have an EX920 1TB here by Thursday so I'll be saying adios to the 950 Pro and it's degraded performance. I'm just wondering what is going on with it to be running like it is. LOL. Temps don't break 44C running CDM.
    I'll upload my initial test once I got it working right a few years ago where it was pulling the advertised numbers.



    Then the test from a few posts up done in Jan 19
    jan test.jpg

    and the test I just did which pretty much mirrors the Jan tests when it was nearly full.
    may.jpg
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  32. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    What's Samsung Magician say about driver/firmware/health?
     
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  33. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    All updated per Magician anyway and good status
    status.jpg

    Although looking on Samsung it isn't the newest Magician even though checking for an update says I have the newest so installing the newest now and verifying the fw/driver numbers also since the program lies. LOL

    FW is correct. The new Magician doesn't report nvme driver version which is odd so I went digging under devices and it looks like the driver that windows sees for it is the windows one:

    Driver provider: Microsoft
    Driver Date: 6/21/06
    Driver Version: 10.0.17763.1
    Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows.

    Going to try and replace the driver with the Sammy and see what happens. The old Magician and new one both show the Sammy driver. Little puzzled why windows shows the driver is the windows one.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  34. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    The Samsung driver made a huge difference for me
     
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  35. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well it appears the Samsung driver is just an install program which I ran and restarted. Magician still shows sammy is the driver yet device manager shows Microsoft. Looking around I found an article I'm still going through but it mentions this:

    "“the performance difference was due to the Microsoft NVMe driver creating FUA (Force Unit Access) I/O write commands. These FUA commands bypass the DRAM cache on the SSD and directly write to the flash, increasing the response time and also lowering bandwidth. For the same access traces, this situation does not happen with the Microsoft AHCI driver.”"

    Which sounds like what is going on for me.
     
  36. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well I don't get it. The post I was reading kinda lead to a dead end and doesn't mention anything or how to force windows itself to see the sammy driver.
    Under Device Manager/Disk Drives/950 PRO is where it shows the Microsoft Driver I mentioned above but if I go to Storage Controllers the Samsung NVME driver is listed.
     
  37. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Maybe try and uninstall the Microsoft driver?
     
  38. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well got it sorted for my daily with the 256gig it seems the damn thing was using a very old sammy driver 1.something when the new one is 3.1. Why Magician says everything is up to snuff and it wasn't......
    Untitled.jpg

    Now I've double checked my game rigs 512gb 950 and it was also using the old 1. something driver so updated that and rebooted.
    I think it's having issues with one of the numbers but it's hard to tell because the CDM's are different versions from my initial test to the current version.
    Untitled.jpg

    is the old versions Seq the new versions 4KIB Q8T8? If so those numbers aren't even close from my original run 3 years ago. We are talking about 1,000pts difference between then and now. LOL
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
  39. scgt1

    scgt1 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well hell I dunno what's going on with it. Went to run CDM again this morning to snag a new screen shot of the bench for when I sell the drive since my EX920 1TB will be here today and the Following are lower then Tuesday:
    Seq Q32 Read is 1410 vs 2070
    Seq 1110 vs 1986
    Everything else is virtually the same +- a few points. I don't know if the computer being up since making the post above back on Tuesday has anything to do with performance or not. The only thing that writes to this drive is what ever windows does along with browser cache etc. All my media etc is on my spinning drives.

    Apparently the drive being up for 2 days was the culprit as it seems a fresh reboot yields an on para bench to Tuesday.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  40. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    Why do you want to slow down your drive just to be able to fake higher score in benchmarks?