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Received my 3008WFP today.
- Thread starter crimpshrine
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StryderxX
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FWIW I hooked up an Xbox 360 to the component input of the 3008WFP and it looked and played great. No perceptible lag that I could see or feel. In contrast I hooked up the 360 to a Dell 2707WFP and the results were horrendous. That monitor has terrible lag and ghosting on the component input.
Just got my 3008WFP yesterday -- good god is it huge. I took some initial photographs to measure input lag but I don't have my CRT hooked up yet so I raced it against my old Samsung 213T. The results are a bit difficult to interpret since I actually had 9 clocks running, spaced out vertically but let me just summarize and say the 3008 is either just as fast as, or less than a frame behind the 213T. I was expecting this IPS panel to be faster than my old PVA but I guess not. Here are the raw photos:
http://www.jschmidt.ca/3008vs213T.html
3008 on the left. I plan to take some photos vs. a CRT tonight possibly tomorrow.
http://www.jschmidt.ca/3008vs213T.html
3008 on the left. I plan to take some photos vs. a CRT tonight possibly tomorrow.
S-IPS panels are not faster than PVA panels. They do have better color reproduction though and ghosting isn't generally a problem for them. They also have much greater viewing angles than other technologies.
I am referring to input lag not ghosting.
Input lag is generated by any kind of image processing by the monitor.
s-pva (214T) has overdrive electronics as standard which adds lag, a previous generation had no overdrive and no extended lag. (it could have been the 210T or 213T dono..)
Some NEC ips monitors also lag quite a bit, even without overdrive due to the added processing features.
s-pva (214T) has overdrive electronics as standard which adds lag, a previous generation had no overdrive and no extended lag. (it could have been the 210T or 213T dono..)
Some NEC ips monitors also lag quite a bit, even without overdrive due to the added processing features.
To be completely accurate S-IPS panels have slower response times but faster input lag times over PVA panels.
daveswantek
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No and Yes. Why, because it has a lot of input lag. Also the current rev has problems with uneven backlight.
Search the forum on 3008WFP.
Dave
Actually I don't believe this is accurate.
Before Overdrive, PVA would adverstise faster response times but in practices IPS was more even across colors and actually worked out better in the real world.
After Overdrive, PVA apparently needs stronger overdrive leading to more input lag and more artifacts.
The way things are today, it is accepted that S-IPS panels have slower response times but faster input lag times over PVA panels. Color accuracy is another topic.
I'm not an expert on LCD technology but I do know a few things. My Dell 3007WFP has ZERO noticable input lag. My Viewsonic VP201s (also S-IPS) 20.1" monitor has none either. My Viewsonic vx2025wm is either PVA or TN and it has no discernable input lag either. To a degree the technology has an effect on input lag, but also the implementation of the monitors features and electronics seem to make a bigger impact.
You are just confirming known facts. The vx2025wm is a P-MVA panel
S-PVA have been observed to suffer from greater input lag than P-MVA panels, while IPS, S-IPS and AS-IPS panels are not or only minimally affected. The main implemenation effect is the use of a scaler, but in general, the panel types are rated as I posted above.
most of the lag is contributed by the PVA technology and the massive amount of overdrive. Unless you can break the laws of physics there will never be a low lag PVA based screen.
Maybe you can then explain how nearly all of these have considerable input lag even though only two of them use overdrive:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/689-3/22-inch-lcd-monitors-the-3rd-wave.html (look for inverted ghosting)
http://www.behardware.com/articles/689-2/22-inch-lcd-monitors-the-3rd-wave.html
And overdrive/RTC itself doesn't need buffering of multiple frames because it needs only knowledge of pixel's colour from frame which is going to be drawn at the moment and previous frame:
I think the 30" with the best picture and least amount of input lag is the 3007WFP-HC. Though that won't have any more than the one input if that's a concern of yours. If you'll just be using it for a PC then that's fine but if you want to do other things with it then that's no good.
After comparing the 3008 to my 3065, I am returning the 3008 for exchange. I figured I would give Dell one more chance with the 3008.
The backlight bleed was definitely worse with the 3008 than the 3065. That bleed is keeping the blacks from being as dark as they should be. Also the fact that the panel is not attached very tightly to the frame also creates more bleed. Wherever you push in the panel you will see light popping out. So far, the quality control is atrocious for a $1,999 monitor. Even though I didn't spend anywhere near that I think the quality needs to be so much better.
The backlight bleed was definitely worse with the 3008 than the 3065. That bleed is keeping the blacks from being as dark as they should be. Also the fact that the panel is not attached very tightly to the frame also creates more bleed. Wherever you push in the panel you will see light popping out. So far, the quality control is atrocious for a $1,999 monitor. Even though I didn't spend anywhere near that I think the quality needs to be so much better.
i've been surfing this forum about the 3008wfp for a few weeks now, and finally i received mine. here's my assesment:
1. amazing clarity even plugged into vga and 1900x1200, yet i have not had a chance to plug it into my mac via dvi.
2. zero dead/stuck pixels (tested with dead pixel buddy).
3. a little backlight bleed at the top but nothing i can't live with, especially with brightness at 0. def beats the sh1t out of my laptop monitor in terms of blackness.
4. brightness to me is not a problem, as it goes low enough to view even in a dark room.
5. beautiful, sturdy design with a wide range of motion.
6. small ding in the bezel...not too happy about that but it seems to be the only real flaw other than the slight backlight bleed.
7. onscreen controls and menu are not hard to work once you get the hang of it, and the buttons press in easy enough.
overall, i bought this monitor cause it has everything i need. i need to plug my laptop into it so vga was necessary. it's not perfect but it's a damn nice monitor. i give it 8/10.
1. amazing clarity even plugged into vga and 1900x1200, yet i have not had a chance to plug it into my mac via dvi.
2. zero dead/stuck pixels (tested with dead pixel buddy).
3. a little backlight bleed at the top but nothing i can't live with, especially with brightness at 0. def beats the sh1t out of my laptop monitor in terms of blackness.
4. brightness to me is not a problem, as it goes low enough to view even in a dark room.
5. beautiful, sturdy design with a wide range of motion.
6. small ding in the bezel...not too happy about that but it seems to be the only real flaw other than the slight backlight bleed.
7. onscreen controls and menu are not hard to work once you get the hang of it, and the buttons press in easy enough.
overall, i bought this monitor cause it has everything i need. i need to plug my laptop into it so vga was necessary. it's not perfect but it's a damn nice monitor. i give it 8/10.
Hmmm... I wonder if mine is particularly bright for some reason. I need to reduce the contrast to 40 even at a brightness of 0. The normal contrast of 50 results in a very bright picture. Windows with a white background glow. It's hard to look at and tiring.
Even at a contrast of 40, I find it pretty tiring.
If the 30" NEC has lower brightness, then I may be tempted to sell my 3008WFP and get that instead...
I think it is more about how the differences affect individuals. I find almost all big monitors (24+) too bright even at zero brightness. I want a 30" but I have big concerns about this as well once you go to zero and it still too bright and you start resorting to lowering the contrast it really start ruining the image quality.
I wish LED backlights were here now, they would most likely allow a nice comfortable wide range. CCFL have limits on how low they can go.
StryderxX
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So guys... what are the chances that I RMA my current 3008WFP (which has pretty bad backlight bleed) and end up with another that has the exact same problem? I'm guessing the chances are good but what else can I do?
The more frightening thing is what happens if you exchange it and get a monitor with backlight bleed AND bad pixels... Chances of that aren't that low either. Buying monitors is one hell of a frustrating experience.
This is what I am doing. I would like to wait longer for Dell to correct these problems, but financially I have to get rid of one of my monitors. Supposed to be here by next Monday, we'll see. If this one is not better I will just give up and keep my 3065.
StryderxX
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I got an email from Dell today telling me that they want me to sent my current 3008WFP to an alternate shipping site for "Failure Analysis". It seems like they know there's a problem but they're still trying to figure out how to correct it. I am now certain that my RMA replacement will still have the bleed and bad panel mounting issues. Thanks for turning me into a product Beta tester Dell!!! 
I got an email from Dell today telling me that they want me to sent my current 3008WFP to an alternate shipping site for "Failure Analysis". It seems like they know there's a problem but they're still trying to figure out how to correct it. I am now certain that my RMA replacement will still have the bleed and bad panel mounting issues. Thanks for turning me into a product Beta tester Dell!!!
At least they try and fix their problems instead of denying them. *cough Apple cough*
daveswantek
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I got an email from Dell today telling me that they want me to sent my current 3008WFP to an alternate shipping site for "Failure Analysis". It seems like they know there's a problem but they're still trying to figure out how to correct it. I am now certain that my RMA replacement will still have the bleed and bad panel mounting issues. Thanks for turning me into a product Beta tester Dell!!!
Thank Microsoft; they invented it.
Best of luck
Dave
Okay so I received my replacement and the replacement ended up going back. The new monitor which was the same first revision was significantly worse than the first that I received. There was much more actual discoloration. After comparing the 2, the first monitor I received has a much more uniform black color and the uneven brightness seems to be more of a pressure issue with the protective cover. The new model that came had actual light and dark spots where the black actual appeared to be different. I have pics and will dig them up. Regardless, both came with zero dead pixels which I applaud and both still performed well however with anything non A/R it was very obvious to see with the new monitor than the old. I a bit disappointed however I am going to keep my original.
Well, I have an update!
Since posting my original comment about requesting folks send in their feedback to their reps a total of two or three people have. Wow, I guess a lot of you aren't as picky as I am when dropping $1500 on a monitor.
Anyways, a lot has transpired and I have heard from QC and Prod-Dev folks who now say they have a replacement ready for me with the QC fixes. At this point since this is my third replacement I will be wary until I can verify it myself.
I will give Dell credit for actively communicating with me on the issue and offering me a full refund after all of this time.
I will post my results when I finally get the new unit.
Oh and to those who will post asking, yes I did ask how can I identify the new unit from a normal one You will know as soon as I do!
- Stan
Since posting my original comment about requesting folks send in their feedback to their reps a total of two or three people have. Wow, I guess a lot of you aren't as picky as I am when dropping $1500 on a monitor.
Anyways, a lot has transpired and I have heard from QC and Prod-Dev folks who now say they have a replacement ready for me with the QC fixes. At this point since this is my third replacement I will be wary until I can verify it myself.
I will give Dell credit for actively communicating with me on the issue and offering me a full refund after all of this time.
I will post my results when I finally get the new unit.
Oh and to those who will post asking, yes I did ask how can I identify the new unit from a normal one
You will know as soon as I do!- Stan
Ordered my 3008WFP from Dell in Finland a week ago and it arrived today. It says on the box that this is REV A01 assembled in Czech Rep.
I have to say I'm (total) newbie with high-end LCDs. However, I do not notice any blacklight bleed discussed in this thread. I'll try to take some pictures when I get my hands on a camera. If someone wants me to make some test, just ask and I'll try to do them asap.
I have to say I'm (total) newbie with high-end LCDs. However, I do not notice any blacklight bleed discussed in this thread. I'll try to take some pictures when I get my hands on a camera. If someone wants me to make some test, just ask and I'll try to do them asap.
StryderxX
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Hey Stan,
I'm in the same boat as you are. I had a conversation with my account rep about this issue. After I called Dell directly to setup an RMA a gentalman by the name of Andre Passee from Dell QC called me at home. He was careful not to admit to any known issues but was friendly and expressed to me that Dell would like to redirect the RMA return to an alternate address for failure analysis. You know.. I have to admit that I hate going through this mess but I do appreciate Dell going the extra step to try and get this issue resolved ASAP. Unfortunately Dell is so big that it takes forever to have the necessary changes take place at the assembly level. I eagerly await your next post after you receive your replacement.
I'm in the same boat as you are. I had a conversation with my account rep about this issue. After I called Dell directly to setup an RMA a gentalman by the name of Andre Passee from Dell QC called me at home. He was careful not to admit to any known issues but was friendly and expressed to me that Dell would like to redirect the RMA return to an alternate address for failure analysis. You know.. I have to admit that I hate going through this mess but I do appreciate Dell going the extra step to try and get this issue resolved ASAP. Unfortunately Dell is so big that it takes forever to have the necessary changes take place at the assembly level. I eagerly await your next post after you receive your replacement.
jcvjcvjcvjcv
Gawd
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No word on the horrible inputlag?
I dealt with Andre as well. A very nice and courteous man however he is definitely aware of the issue. They wanted my original back which I still have after sending me the replacement. I am still contemplating what I will do, I am leaning towards just keeping this monitor and enjoying it. As for the input lag, anything with a scaler is going to have higher numbers, I myself am content with the performance of the monitor in gaming.