BY FAR!!! Like they said at insidesimracing, the clubsport pedals is like cheating. I could NEVER go back to any regular pedal set again. I'd sacrifice the wheel before the pedals without a second thought, even with their problems. My 911 went down so I was without for a while. Pulled out the G27 and left the pedals in the box, used the clubsports instead. My G27 pedals are practically brand new.
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Project C.A.R.S
- Thread starter Final8ty
- Start date
BY FAR!!! Like they said at insidesimracing, the clubsport pedals is like cheating. I could NEVER go back to any regular pedal set again. I'd sacrifice the wheel before the pedals without a second thought, even with their problems. My 911 went down so I was without for a while. Pulled out the G27 and left the pedals in the box, used the clubsports instead. My G27 pedals are practically brand new.
Interesting, I think I'll have to shout myself CSP's for xmas.
I was watching a vid of this guy driving with CSP's, and it looked like he was braking 20-25mtrs later than I could ever hope to.
It feels like a car. Only way to say it. I was able to get close to it before I got the Fanatec gear by using a folded strip of a cut mouse pad when I was using the Microsoft wheel in Forza and dialing in the settings so that absolute pressure just brought on lockup but firm brake pressure gave me the best stopping threshold. That helped me tremendously but it wasn't the Clubsports. Love my Clubsports and they are WELL worth the money to me. I'll be honest, if they tacked on another hundred bucks I'd still buy them. And believe that's a statement I only made once before, and it was about this product.
For those "trying to simulate the act of driving" there's no way you shouldn't have these or their equivalent or better in your setup.
There's simply no comparison between Clubsport (or CSR Elite) and G25/G27 pedals. One is like a real car. The other is a computer game joystick.
If my CSR elites broke I'd fix them. If I couldn't fix them I'd buy Clubsport v2 or the same CSR Elites again. Without hesitation.
In rFactor I run them @ 100% sensitivity with a 20% deadzone and, to me, that's as close as I've come to simulating a real car.
If my CSR elites broke I'd fix them. If I couldn't fix them I'd buy Clubsport v2 or the same CSR Elites again. Without hesitation.
In rFactor I run them @ 100% sensitivity with a 20% deadzone and, to me, that's as close as I've come to simulating a real car.
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- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 23,532
I didn't read the whole thing but didn't they give that guy back his money and now he's butthurt and saying they banned his account instead of saying they refunded his money since he wasn't satisfied? I did buy a entry into the Beta for Project Cars, but I've never read their forums.
I am having some fun with the game, although they really could work on the areas around the race track. And for the life of me I can't figure out why the tires make the lightest burnout ever seen. I've made darker marks in a 1982 Toyota Tercel.
I am having some fun with the game, although they really could work on the areas around the race track. And for the life of me I can't figure out why the tires make the lightest burnout ever seen. I've made darker marks in a 1982 Toyota Tercel.
I didn't read the whole thing but didn't they give that guy back his money and now he's butthurt and saying they banned his account instead of saying they refunded his money since he wasn't satisfied? I did buy a entry into the Beta for Project Cars, but I've never read their forums.
I am having some fun with the game, although they really could work on the areas around the race track. And for the life of me I can't figure out why the tires make the lightest burnout ever seen. I've made darker marks in a 1982 Toyota Tercel.
The thread started about him whining that he was banned for no reason (he wasn't) but it developed into an argument about SMS suppressing criticism at multiple websites using heavy handed and ugly tactics (which in my opinion they have been doing), and also about the direction CARS has taken (poor physics, emphasis on graphics, etc). There are some nasty people on both sides of the debate there including a really disgusting SMS lead investor (Micah_WMD) who's basically invested 6 months into trolling just about everyone present. There are also quite a few people there who have merely been trying to hold a reasonable discussion about why CARS is heading down familiar territory (Shift physics and approach, rather than the full blown sim were promised... very similar to when they were hyping Shift 1/2, actually) but the trolls kept inflaming the situation.
This week, rather than apologise and take care of his own house, the studio head (Ian Bell) is threatening to sue RaceDepartment because he thinks users are making libelous statements about SMS and CARS. He has not acknowledged that there is a legitimate discussion to be had nor has he addressed the legitimate criticism, and doesn't seem to care for the fact that his own people are responsible for at least 50% of the flamewar. RaceDepartment has moderated the thread heavily on multiple occasions but it just won't die because more and more people keep showing up, and I applaud them for standing up to bullying. It's disgusting.
When the studio head addresses an entire forum with the phrase "Hello haters" in his first post, a forum created out of goodwill to give an independent place to discuss a game title, it really speaks volumes. Hell, you saw what was done in this thread.
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I try to avoid getting into the politics of all of it. If the game is good, it's good, I don't really care about the forum shit slinging contests when it comes down to actually playing the game.
I also lol-ed at the diagrams of 4 contact points compared to 1 point. That's how forces and torques work, you can resolve them to a point. Not saying it means CARS has realistic physics if it uses a point force system, but that's no reason why it wouldn't have realistic physics. I'm pretty sure RACE/GTR/GT legends all use a point based force system (based off having glanced briefly at some of the car data files). In fact it'd surprise me if that's not how all sims worked if you actually looked at their physics code.
I also lol-ed at the diagrams of 4 contact points compared to 1 point. That's how forces and torques work, you can resolve them to a point. Not saying it means CARS has realistic physics if it uses a point force system, but that's no reason why it wouldn't have realistic physics. I'm pretty sure RACE/GTR/GT legends all use a point based force system (based off having glanced briefly at some of the car data files). In fact it'd surprise me if that's not how all sims worked if you actually looked at their physics code.
The more I read on this, the more I'm amazed at the lack of professionalism shown by this company. This is no way to address and treat potential customers and fans of your game and racing in general. They're acting like spoilt brats.
I'm probably not going to get into pc racing again (the hw demands have become too expensive), but if I was this is a good way to turn users away.
I'm probably not going to get into pc racing again (the hw demands have become too expensive), but if I was this is a good way to turn users away.
You clearly don't like sims.
The key is buying at a "good time", and that's usually after your desired SW's been released so you KNOW what the HW demands will be.
You clearly don't understand physics
I understood that the 4 contact point diagrams were attempting to highlight the diff between the better sims and something as arcadey as pcars with it's center mounted feel.
You remember most cars come with 4 wheels right?
Its also the $400+ steering wheel setups, which to be fair cost the same for an Xbox 360 as well.
This is true, but I've yet to see a 360 or PS3 game that exploits a sim setup like several PC titles have already done. I can plug my Fanatec gear into my 360 -- that doesn't mean games exist that use the gear properly.
Like I said and you didn't comprehend...
"Not saying it means CARS has realistic physics if it uses a point force system, but that's no reason why it wouldn't have realistic physics."
I'm pretty sure (mostly sure, I haven't actually seen them, though I'm pretty sure it's true of RACE/GTR) that all sims boil down to a single point which the forces and torques act through. I base that logic of having seen the car data files for RACE/GTR and also off the fact whenever you learn dynamics you pretty much always reduce a linkage (like a chassis) to a point, that point has some mass which resists linear motion and some inertia which resists roll/pitch. You could consider the chassis as being a spring instead, but I doubt they do because that would make life incredibly complicated and I think it's more likely any chassis stiffness affects are accounted for by correction factors rather than actually considering non-rigid physics.
That's also how you do it for real cars, you remember real cars, right? Those things that buzz around outside while you're busy playing your sim
You calculate the forces on the car, at a point, use that to determine tyre loads, and then use those loads to go back to your point to determine the actual motion of the car, whether it's yawing or pitching or turning or whatever.That's why I "lol-ed", not because I think PCARS has done things the right way and not even because I think the person was entirely wrong, but because someone went to a lot of trouble making diagrams and graphs to separate point forces from tyre forces when the two are interchangeable and are used interchangeably in real vehicle dynamics and I'm pretty sure would be used interchangeably in sims (unless sims use some magical computational trickery to fake real physics without actually considering real physics).
The diagrams were an excellent visual representation of the way in which those that pay attention perceive pcars vs most sims to feel.....so there's nothing to lol about.
In the Inside Sim Racing review of SMS's Ferrari game, the reviewers also mention that the cars felt center sprung and were clearly concerned whether or not pcars would maintain this grossly arcade driving dynamic.
We'll have to agree to disagree
As stated, the best sims are on PC, however, you can get extremely good value from a G27 which is approx $260AUD in a bricks and mortar, probably means they're $200USA.
I'm on my 2008 PC, I simply added a new HDD and $160 GPU 12months ago and there's still life in the beast.
When I get my new PC next yr, I'll have 2-3x the CPU power, 4x the GPU power, and 4-5x the HDD speed, and I once again expect this PC to last 3-5yrs with a modest upgrade down the line.
If by friendship you mean murderous contempt I totally agree!
I'M NOT AS CRAZY OR AS HOMICIDAL AS YOU THINK....I just have anger issues
Hey all, been following this thread from the get go. I've always wanted to get into sim racing but just never really wanted to plunk down the cash to do it properly. But I do enjoy racing games and even though most of you seem like the hard core sim crowd is there anything current or on the horizon that is similar to GRID?? I know its an arcade style game but it was seriously the most fun I've had racing since GT4 days on the PS2. Thanks for any help.
GRID 2 was just recently announced
I'd say Need for Speed Shift was similar to GRID. If you like that codemasters style then try out the other simcade racing games they've put out... TOCA3, F1 2010, F1 2011, F1 2012 is about to come out, and of course DIRT1 or CMR4 if you dig a bit of rally. Avoid FUEL, that game is worthless, even for codemasters.
Your PC is still strong enough to run any sim at good IQ settings, all you need is a G27 and RACE07+GTR EVO{$20 on steam or so}......this is a great sim that works extremely well with G27, and there's 1000's of people who have G27 plus these games, so all the help you could ever need would be available.
Not all games work well or properly with a wheel, but nearly all sims do, and once you get used to a wheel, it's very hard to go back to arcadey type games.
There should also be a GTR evo demo on steam, but bad move trying it with a KB, it'll suck.
Another great sim is Game Stock Car 2012{$20}, and this game feels like it was built around a G27, but it's a smaller game than GTR EVO, for example, Evo has the 20 and 24km Nurburgring tracks and the awesome C6R Corvette.
If you like that style of game, pretty much all the codemasters racing games are good as requiem said. Anything from TOCA: Race Driver 3 (if you don't mind older graphics, though IMO they aged quite well) through to the more recent ones are good. They all also work quite well with either a controller or a KB+M, though I'd recommend the controller.
If you feel like spending the money on the full wheel, I actually think most the codemasters games DON'T work all that well with a good wheel, not to say you can't play them and people don't play them with a wheel, they do, I just never got the "feel" for them with a wheel except for the F1 series and even that felt pretty spongy.
There's plenty of cheap racing sims and/or free demos you can try to decide if you want to get in to that, Live for Speed has a free demo, several of the RACE games have demos. You check the site for simbin games, hover the mouse over "games" and a dropdown will appear of the games and you can see all the ones that have demos.
http://www.raceroom.net/games/race-injection/
Looking at the list you can freely download demos for Crown Plaza Raceway, GT Legends, RACE, Volvo the game, GTR1, GTR2, RACE07, STCC, GTR Evo, Race On, etc etc etc. Basically a ton of demos to see whether or not you'll enjoy simbin style racing sims.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 23,532
2013 and no inside the car view. I can't play a racing game without staring at the steering wheel.
Pic taken from the RD thread (that someone saved from the project CARS forum).
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZS5JoymRoM
This is old news to some people, but I hadn't seen it before.
Here's the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZS5JoymRoM
This is old news to some people, but I hadn't seen it before.
Slightly OT, but what is the best reasonably affordable racing setup for the 360? I purchased a nice big tv and home theater setup, and I don't have the budget for a pc+video card upgrade (current cpu is a Q6600). I enjoy Forza 3 with a controller but its clearly not hardcore. The new MS racing wheel is a joke. For $200-250 can I get a high quality racing experience on the console?
http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/pcars-a-community-divided.55267/
The soap opera continues here
The soap opera continues here
Thread has been closed pending legal action
The thread should have been locked a long long time ago, I haven't read the first 50 pages or so but even the end of it was just a shit slinging contest which responsible mods would have seen and cut off at root. The thread had reached a point where it wasn't going to be beneficial many pages ago.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH I've just been reading the followup thread, after the original thread was locked because of possible legal action from Project CARS developer SMS... Project Lead SMS Ian Bell spent at least the first 4-5 pages of this new thread arguing with the mods and community that he didn't ban people with no reason. Cue someone he did ban for no reason to stroll in with a truly epic first post.
You can't make this shit up.
You can't make this shit up.
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