Project C.A.R.S

[Tudz]

I think it's a bit sad more than anything. I don't really know a lot of the background, I haven't frequented RD for years, but from what I've googled Ian Bell formed simbin in the beginning and worked them through GTR1, GTR2 and GT Legends which are some of the all time best sims, GTR1 being one of the first sims I wasted a decent amount of time playing and GTR2 and GT Legends also being some really great games.

It's a shame to see it has all devolved into this. I'll remain quietly optimistic about PCARS without getting my hopes up until I see it in finished form, but that's just me, I like to keep a positive attitude on unfinished games.

 

[Frog2]

But what have SMS done lately?
Shift1/2/Ferrari, and not a sim among them.

 

[Frog2]

Slightly OT, but what is the best reasonably affordable racing setup for the 360? I purchased a nice big tv and home theater setup, and I don't have the budget for a pc+video card upgrade (current cpu is a Q6600). I enjoy Forza 3 with a controller but its clearly not hardcore. The new MS racing wheel is a joke. For $200-250 can I get a high quality racing experience on the console?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1713916&page=2

Post it in here Crispy.

 

[Tudz]

But what have SMS done lately?
Shift1/2/Ferrari, and not a sim among them.

I don't know about ferrari, again I haven't been following it, but shift1/2 were EA games and I'm pretty sure they were under the thumb to make them to a certain spec, if they weren't they could have just utilised the physics from GTR2 which were a big step up from shift.

The talent is there, at one point the passion was there, it remains to be seen if it still exists. I know there's a lot of pessimism in the sim community regarding PCARS, but I'm staying optimistic that it'll be a good game/sim/whatever.

 

[Maplehamwich]

Wow, that drama is quite silly. I'll pretend I never saw it and move on. I hope pCars is great. : ) More games and more competition is always good.

 

[Frog2]

, but I'm staying optimistic that it'll be a good game/sim/whatever.

Not that hard to make a good game, both Shift's would've been epic SP experiences if only the cars didn't sway halfway across the track, so given that the sway is gone, they're well on the way to making a good racing game, but can they deliver on the sim part of the equation...

 

[Tudz]

Not that hard to make a good game

I think the people who make games might disagree with you there

 

[Frog2]

I think the people who make games might disagree with you there

As if......consult me, consult the community, choose what's popular, and what makes sense.
Anyway, all parties have kissed and made up.

 

[requiem99]

Anyway, all parties have kissed and made up.

SMS quite sensibly backed off from a frivolous lawsuit that has already spawned sim community meme material for years. I don't see them being happy about it, nor do I see their critics giving them the benefit of the doubt from now on. Lets wait and see how CARS develops.

 

[Tudz]

SMS quite sensibly backed off from a frivolous lawsuit that has already spawned sim community meme material for years. I don't see them being happy about it, nor do I see their critics giving them the benefit of the doubt from now on. Lets wait and see how CARS develops.

I don't think this little shit slinging contest has helped the game development in the slightest. The sim racing community isn't huge, probably a large portion of it read RD at least from time to time if not regulars. Even if it turns out to be an awesome sim it will probably hurt sim racer sales. I just hope SMS don't take it personally as an excuse to ignore the sim side and just focus on the "game" side.

I would like to see PCARS as simmy as possible. Despite what froggy might think, I do actually like sims... I just don't like shit games, and unfortunately most sims are shit games (good physics packaged up in a shit game ). Good racing "games" are things like the codemasters racing series or Forza or GT, I'm longing for something like that with actual sim physics, preferably on PC

 

[Frog2]

Good racing "games" are things like the codemasters racing series or Forza or GT, I'm longing for something like that with actual sim physics, preferably on PC

You're overlooking what 10-20x the budget can do and also the focus on physics vs GFX.

 

[Tudz]

You're overlooking what 10-20x the budget can do and also the focus on physics vs GFX.

It's not just graphics. It's the package. It's about making you feel like you're actually racing vs. tinkering with a computer in ways other than just the physics. The overall polish of the game. Creating an atmosphere. A decent single player which helps teach you and gives a compelling reason to race regardless of skill level or free time you have to play. Graphics certainly help and big car lists certainly help, but they're not the be all and end all of what makes a "game" and neither is physics.

 

[Frog2]

of what makes a "game" and neither is physics.

For me, when it comes to a sim, if the physics aren't there, then it has limited appeal.
I have no desire to put my limited time into letting the PC drive the car for me.

 

[requiem99]

It's not just graphics. It's the package. It's about making you feel like you're actually racing vs. tinkering with a computer in ways other than just the physics. The overall polish of the game. Creating an atmosphere. A decent single player which helps teach you and gives a compelling reason to race regardless of skill level or free time you have to play. Graphics certainly help and big car lists certainly help, but they're not the be all and end all of what makes a "game" and neither is physics.

You want atmosphere, narrative, and "pick up and play" because you are not a sim gamer. Sim gamers really only care about the core mechanic. If the mechanic is right, we can work with almost everything else.

 

[t.o.]

No, that's the same user from earlier in this thread (darkdeus) who registered here merely to promote this game, and that video is not an accurate representation of the graphics. If you don't believe me simply drop some money and test it for yourself. Verification is easily within your reach.

Well I took your advice (except for the "drop money" part ) and decided to try it myself and here's what I see so far. What I saw in that video my system was actually able to do. Yes that is an accurate portrayal of the game ... at times. As a matter of fact the game can actually look BETTER than that , in real time, in the right conditions. However it can also look worse then that in the wrong conditions. I'll say that the video is about a little better than the average of what you can expect. I do think you're going to need a decent graphics card to get there though. I don't know.

A few tracks are pretty much ready to ship right now while some are nowhere close to ready to ship. The A.I. is just about as ready as the tracks per track. Some tracks the A.I. will give you a good race while on some (at least one I should say, don't know about others) tracks the AI is still in development and are completely broken. All on default A.I for Pro I should say. I haven't messed with any sliders.

All in all though even though I got a subscription "on the house" I could actually see myself spending dough on it. When it's all working together it's probably, screw that, it IS the best looking racing game I've ever put a wheel to.

The physics I'm still judging them. Most all of the cars are high aero grip monsters so I can't take my usual fare around like a WTCC Volvo or maybe a GT1 or 2 car. But the Grumpet and the Pagani are as close as I can get to more loose cars and they feel pretty right to me. To be honest I really have no complaint against the physics at this point. I feel cars may be a little grippy but then I'm still evaluating things.

As far as visuals though the video I earlier referenced is probably slanted but it is fair in some aspect. Believe me I could post some vids that would blow even that away. See the problem is though the video doesn't show the work that's still needed on most environments. The video editor used a static camera also which keeps the environment still and let the cars do the work so that's probably not a fair representation of what's really going on.

I'll say this though, if a person goes in knowing you're getting a work in progress and treats it as such I have no reason to believe they would not have a nice time messing around with this. Where as if you go in expecting a 100 percent finished game and the only thing missing is the fancy box then you'll be disappointed. This is just pretty much an observation on the visuals.

Here's a video I did before I really did any playing around with the different sky conditions. But I will say you're going to need a nice graphics card to get your all out of this game at this moment. I did heavy rain and my gfx card broke down like a rented mule. FPS to a huge hit. Huge to me, as it seems some people feel that 40ish fps is fine. I don't, if it aint 60 it aint for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAFA3Innswc

EDIT: This video is not the "look better" visuals I mentioned before. This is about on par with the original video I referenced earlier. I'll post some vids of when this game can look REALLY good. But the above vid isn't those videos.

 

[Tudz]

You want atmosphere, narrative, and "pick up and play" because you are not a sim gamer. Sim gamers really only care about the core mechanic. If the mechanic is right, we can work with almost everything else.

That's simply because there have been no sims that are also good games, at least not recently that I know of, so the only people playing them are the people who can overlook the lack of "game" for the sake of "sim"

I think if someone actually made good games that were also realistic sims, there'd be a whole new generation of sim gamers. Look at Forza and GT or even the codemasters F1 series, they may not be epic realistic, but they are quite a step up in physics from arcade racers and lots of people love them not because the physics aren't quite as realistic as a PC sim, but because they're also good games.

Maybe the sim community has picked up lately, I dunno, but when I stopped playing sims seriously the community was a shadow of what it was when I started (which was, I'm sure, part of the reason I got bored with sims). I think a lack of good "sim games" dried up the community a bit and now the definition of "sim gamer" has shifted to what you and frog feel it means.

 

[Frog2]

That's simply because there have been no sims that are also good games.

That's just your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I was just driving the 650hp Dodge Viper GTP spec and also the production version from GTR EVO, and they're awesome fun.
With a game like RACE07{$3 on steam}, plus GTR evo{$9.99}, and some mods, you can drive the game forever......sorry it doesn't have gymkana.

Assetto Corso is set to be the next big thing in sim racing, it has DX11 GFX, laser scanned tracks and is mod friendly+MP, but there's no Dirt Showdown events in there.

 

[t.o.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-qECGRvHnY

This video is the "look better" visuals I mentioned before.

 

[requiem99]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-qECGRvHnY

This video is the "look better" visuals I mentioned before.

Looks uneven and average, at best, which is accurate, because overall that's how CARS looks.

 

[cageymaru]

That's just your opinion, and you're entitled to it, but I was just driving the 650hp Dodge Viper GTP spec and also the production version from GTR EVO, and they're awesome fun.
With a game like RACE07{$3 on steam}, plus GTR evo{$9.99}, and some mods, you can drive the game forever......sorry it doesn't have gymkana.

Assetto Corso is set to be the next big thing in sim racing, it has DX11 GFX, laser scanned tracks and is mod friendly+MP, but there's no Dirt Showdown events in there.

Do the mods make it look decent? Race 07 demo looks pretty dated. I like the way it handles, but it's pretty long in the tooth graphically. Does the GTR pack up the overall graphics package? Very hard to be immersed when there are huge squares coming at ya.

 

[t.o.]

Looks uneven and average, at best, which is accurate, because overall that's how CARS looks.

Almost a fair assessment BUT I gotta disagree with "average, at best". The last track and car combo in my video looks amazing for a racing game. At least from all the racing games I've played. If ,and that's a BIG if, the final product can keep that level of detail AND they can get other lighting situations to look equally impressive then , graphically, this would be a hot game.

So I would say overall it's uneven at it's current state but , again, I'm being optimistic and trying to give the game , which is still in development, a chance. If you can offer up something that looks better than what pCars looks at it's best then let me know so I can give it a spin. As of now I haven't played that game yet. But I can understand your statement somewhat because youtube is a video killer. I'm looking at their supposed "1080p" and it's nowhere near as clear as my actual video which is always the case for me at least with youtube. I will try to put this up some way so people can see the actual quality

 

[cageymaru]

Try Vimeo. It's free also.

 

[Frog2]

 

[Frog2]

Do the mods make it look decent? Race 07 demo looks pretty dated. I like the way it handles, but it's pretty long in the tooth graphically. Does the GTR pack up the overall graphics package? Very hard to be immersed when there are huge squares coming at ya.

This is the SS Camaro from RACEON, which probably has the same GFX as EVO.
This game looks quite decent, especially at places like Brands Hatch etc, so not sure what you mean by squares, maybe the demo lacks the GFX options....?

 

[cageymaru]

Well when I switch views some of the antialiasing is pretty dated and the textures are also. I know that the quality of a good racing game isn't all about how it looks, but to be honest it was looking aged on my PC. Not that I wouldn't play it as it did feel very nice to control.

For kicks I streamed Project Cars to my nephew (29) and great-nieces (5 & 6). Everyone was quiet while I played and my nephew was asking about what settings I was using in the game for graphics etc. Then I streamed the demo for Race 07 and they were like, "Stop playing man! Cut the other game back on!" My nephew's oldest daughter was laughing at Race 07 because of the way it looked.

Then I explained to my nephew that Race 07 was from 2007 and he started to understand and then I told him it was only $3 and he was like well for $3 you can't beat it! I asked him if he wanted a copy so we can race and he was like nay, get me a copy of Project Cars. I was like.... Umm... You better get to saving!

Race 07 is a fine game but it's starting to show it's age.

 

[yourgrandma]

Graphics are great for the most part way better looking then any sim i have played. If you take your expectations accordingly and don't buy into developer bullshots it still manages to look great. You can easily pick apart car/ tracks in any racing game (esp. GT5) that has inconsistent fidelity. I just took these really quick.
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/9201868/img/Picture-Box/pCARS-2012-09-04-00-25-15-72.png
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/9201865/img/Picture-Box/pCARS-2012-09-04-00-25-32-03.png
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/9201872/img/Picture-Box/pCARS-2012-09-04-00-27-12-03.png

I think people should wait till the game is released to make their final judgment on the graphics as many of the tracks are still unfinished. The sound is the best part though anyways . Lotus 78 sounds glorious.

I'm still not sure what the heck they want to make this game into. They want to make it a sim but it doesn't seem like they're even close to making one yet. Personally im fine either way they go as long it stays fun to drive and keeps the cool immersive cockpit feel.

 

[Frog2]

Race 07 is a fine game but it's starting to show it's age.

Not for me, I'm still waiting for a decent simulator that has it's range of tracks, cars and game options.....the Simbin range starting with RACE07 and including GTR EVO, RACEON, GT power, Retro expansion, WTCC1/2, STCC1/2 is the GT5 of sim racing.

All these game integrate, so you can drive any car on any track, and probably don't cost more than $50-$60 all up.

If you're a GFX whore by all means buy into pcars and suffer, OTOH, if you appreciate steering wheel FFB and precision, by Simbin or GSC 2012.

 

[requiem99]

or rFactor.

 

[cageymaru]

Not for me, I'm still waiting for a decent simulator that has it's range of tracks, cars and game options.....the Simbin range starting with RACE07 and including GTR EVO, RACEON, GT power, Retro expansion, WTCC1/2, STCC1/2 is the GT5 of sim racing.

All these game integrate, so you can drive any car on any track, and probably don't cost more than $50-$60 all up.

If you're a GFX whore by all means buy into pcars and suffer, OTOH, if you appreciate steering wheel FFB and precision, by Simbin or GSC 2012.

I wouldn't call it suffering by playing Project Cars. I would like to see Simbin update their graphics engine though. Nothing wrong with thinking like that right? So are they going to do so? I don't passionately keep up with racing games like you would thus the questions.

 

[Frog2]

Simbin are releasing a F2P within a week or less, and they're still going to do GTR3, so both will have updated GFX, as can be seen right now with RaceRoom F2P.

 

[t.o.]

Wow, I guess I think differently. I appreciate when a developer releases works in progress so we all can get an early taste of how things are going towards the making of a game. Crazy me but I like to rag on a game as if it was completed WHEN it's completed, but that's just me. Sorta like how I feel about GT5, well in fairness I guess I'm wrong since that game wasn't "completed" until about a year after release if even it's "completed" yet.

 

[Maplehamwich]

I've recently looked into this game more fully. At first I was quite disillusioned, what with the controversey about video/screenshot tampering and such. However, after reading much more I am really looking forward to it!

In case others are interested about the title, here is more information (stuff not found on the official website www.wmdportal.com ).

Slightly Mad Studios
This is who the game is being developed by. From the SMS Wikipedia page:

Slightly Mad Studios is an independent British video game company headquartered in London, England. On 12 January 2009, the company acquired the business and assets of Blimey! Games.[1][2] In September 2009, Slightly Mad Studios released Need for Speed: Shift with Electronic Arts.[3]

About Blimey! Games (From the Blimey! Games Wikipedia Page):

The company was founded in May 2005 by the development team who produced the PC Driving Game GTR - FIA GT Racing Game in 2004.
Blimey! Games also formed the core development team of GTR - FIA GT Racing Game 2, and sports car racing game, GT Legends.
In 2006, Blimey! Games, along with their publishers 10tacle Studios AG, signed a license agreement for the development of video games with automotive manufacturer Ferrari.
Following the insolvency of 10tacle in 2008, on 8 January 2009, Blimey! went into administration with the business and assets being sold to Slightly Mad Studios Limited, a company that had also been established by Bell.[1][2]

The Connection With SimBin (from SimBin Wikipedia page):

SimBin Studios is a Swedish video game developer- and publisher founded in 2003 that develops racing simulators for Windows and the current-generation consoles. The company has its headquarters in Lidköping and a studio in Gothenburg. The company originally started as a modding team for the Image Space Incorporated game F1 2002, releasing a mod based on the 2002 season of the FIA GT championship, essentially the precursor to its first commercial game.

The company has already released GTR - FIA GT Racing Game, GT Legends, a sequel to GTR racing called GTR - FIA GT Racing Game 2, all published by 10tacle as well as RACE - The Official WTCC Game published by Eidos Interactive and RACE 07 - The Official WTCC Game which was the first SimBin game to include Formula cars. RACE 07 has gone on to have seven expansion packs released for it: GTR Evolution, STCC - The Game, RACE On, STCC The Game 2, GT Power Expansion, WTCC 2010 and Retro Expansion. 2009 RACE Pro was developed for Xbox 360, published by Atari.

In 2009, the core development group of Simbin, Blimey! Games, was acquired by Slightly Mad Studios. Slightly Mad Studios has since released Need for Speed: Shift and Shift 2: Unleashed, drawing on their experience from developing the GTR games.

Slightly Mad Studios Previous Releases:

Need for Speed Shift
Need for Speed Shift 2 Unleashed
Test Drive Ferrari: Racing Legends

Project CARS

Wikipedia Information:
Game Design
In Project CARS, you will be able to take on a realistic driver's career from racing karts all the way up to being a back-to-back series champion in an International series. Many racing disciplines are planned to be represented, including touring cars, track day cars, stock cars, formula cars, classics, and modern production. Co-operative multiplayer is also planned to be a distinctive feature that will allow friends to race together in the same team throughout a season, or take turns racing the same car in endurance races and offering assistance from the pit garage.

Physics
While the game is being built for the "hardcore" simulator enthusiast, the game will also target audiences of Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport through the use of driver aids and input filtering methods. Despite using the same Madness engine used in the Need for Speed Shift titles, there are no traces of 'floaty' handling or 'input lag', which were a common source of frustration in the simulation community. More processing power available in modern computers allows a new dynamic tyre model named "SETA" to be used in Project CARS, instead of using a steady-state model based on lookup tables as used in previous generation simulations.
In addition to using community feedback, Slightly Mad Studios have engaged the services of Ben Collins[4], racing driver and Top Gear's former "Stig", and Nicolas Hamilton[5], Clio Cup racing driver and younger brother to Formula 1 star Lewis in order to develop a realistic simulation.

Cars and Tracks
Despite the incomplete nature of this title, there are already over 60 licensed cars and over 35 race tracks (not including circuit layouts) confirmed to be included. For licensing reasons, tracks are currently codenamed using their geographic location. In addition to real world racing circuits and fictional kart circuits, there are some fictional point-to-point roads inspired by real locations.

Decision about Rally Racing
The community decided it would be best to drop rally for now so that it can be given enough attention to be better than Richard Burns Rally, which despite its age is still very popular amongst sim racing rally fans. After taking a vote Ian Bell (head of studio) decided they would look into designing Rally as DLC or a standalone product (or both) 3 months before Project CARS ships.

Other Information

Career Flowchart (from Neogaf Thread):
http://www.abload.de/img/itcxkfqk11xkzcx8rb.jpg

I think the flowchart is missing some steps, given the description it should be:
Karting -> Purchase Car and Race in individual track days - > Enter Amateur Race Events - > Get Scouted for Professional Team and Race Professionally in one of several disciplines - > Create your own race Team and become a super star at the high level. It's like a mix of Forza and F1 2012.

 

[Maplehamwich]

The Project CARS Facebook page recently had an update. Those who aren't "members" might find this information interesting.

Just wanted to give everyone an idea of what's planned for the next few months in Project CARS. The following list represents the priority items we'll be working on and that you'll be seeing added to the builds over the coming months (well, there's a few behind the scenes bits but put them in to keep you all informed)




Continued work on cars and tracks



GUILib upgrades - Essential 'behind the scenes' work to ensure that GUI work can be better distributed amongst the team, and improve GUI texture management. Also begin work into supporting new GUI additions such as tab screens and list boxes.



Audio improvements - These will include a gear change sound, gear wobble/shunt effects, improving engine load, adding global balancing tweakers, and some other behind the scenes work to increase audio efficiency.



Basic qualifying sessions - On enabling qualifying, the game will be split between two sessions: qualifying, then race. The qualifying session starts in the pits with a race overview screen, where lap information is visible, and the player can advance session when ready. The grid positions of the race session will be determined from the qualifying lap times. This will not (for now) include the ability to pit, or global concept of qualifying session duration.



Championships - Work has already been ongoing on developing the code needed to have functional championships, so you'll start to see some of these being added - initially just in a sample way to test functionality but later they will more closely follow some of the career plans.



Customisable HUD - New system to allow users to customise their HUD display. This will be editable via scripts, which will use our new Scribe system. Eventually, this will also allow editing of the HUD display in-game too.



Camera system improvements - We will be implementing improvements to the camera controls for various situations. This is intended to make it easier to get good screenshots and videos, and will include changes to the free camera, the attached camera, and replay cameras.



Hybrid timer - Advance the Timer code that was previously test by WMD members and integrate it into the physics manager tick for further testing. It is still not clear if it will be suitable as a final solution yet but it is now ready for the next stage of evaluation.



Particle editor - The particle system and effects (i.e. rain on car and windscreen, spray on cars, engine smoke, explosions) are being re-written in order to 'raise the bar' in this area. This is being done in conjunction with an overhaul to our editing tools, so the new particle system will allow live editing of the particle in-game (as well as having its own offline visual editor).



Various shader fixes/improvements - There are numerous shader fixes and improvements planned. These will include...



* Raindrop visuals on bodywork will be improved to reduce the over-bright reflections seen, particularly in cases where the reflected light ought to be blocked by the car itself.



* Raindrop visuals to be added to other types of bodywork, e.g. carbon fibre.



* Bodywork shaders when in cockpit need to allow a choice of environment mapping technique, so that not all parts use the bonnetcam reflection system, as this looks wrong on internal components.



* Skinned bodywork shader needs to support bonnet cam envmap.



* Skinned carbon bodywork shader needs support for flat clearcoat layer.



* Shaders in general will get an extra option to use the ambient occlusion value to reduce reflection strength (both environment map and specular irradiance).



* Windscreen banners need to use transmissive lighting, rather than be transparent.



* Specular lighting will be improved across a range of shaders, to give a more consistent look to similar surfaces.



* Fresnel to be permanently on in road and overlay shaders, to be consistent with other track surfaces.

 

[cageymaru]

The game looks great and plays even better. The developers really listen to the community and try to implement good ideas that testers come up with. The game is still in an Alpha stage of development though.

 

[cageymaru]

You have an account Maplehamwich? If so make a little time to try the new BMW's out. Both are really sweet and one has a new crash deformation system. Also my cpu usage doubled from where it was at last year so they optimized the game a lot more.

 

[haste]

Physics fail at Maggots/Becketts corner with Formula A...I was flat out in 7th gear and ran over the inside kerb just a touch and the right front of the car dug into the ground and started flipping like crazy. I wish I had gotten a movie/screenshot but FRAPS caused the game to crash when I tried pressing F10.

 

[saedrin]

Hehe. Fraps.

Try recording with DxTory with an x264 codec. Nearly zero performance hit, fantastic record quality at 1080p.