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prerelease benchmarks r520
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eno-on said:
look at this, they send DH an email that was a response to something totally different and ATi cuts and pasts that email and give it the DH saying this was the reason that HA wrote up an article on the r520. And to take it even further, they don't tell you that HA a few emails later where HA already understood the situation and stated they only want to review the card when it is ready. But by this time ATi's MM already had enough and told them to "piss off". Of course its ok if ATi puts a fist up someones ass, but isn't good when its the other way around?
So without resolving the situation, ATi goes out and shows the public half truths, by not telling exactly what happened and trash HA, and if the benchmarks are truelly false ATi has no need to do this.
What?razor1 said:
You are totally reading this differently than a logical person would putting the pieces together.
And even if you weren't, there is no basis for libel here on ATi's part. I don't need to read it again. You do, with less boogers in your eyes.
And this proves what, now?razor1 said:
Regardless, there is no basis for libel on ATi's part. I'm not going to argue this anymore. Your statement concerning this has no footing in reality, period. The only party that may have some legal issues shortly, is Mr. Sanders. The End.
eno-on said:
Legally Sander can't be touched (unless he himself faked the benchmarks) since he wasn't under NDA the only person that can be touched is the person he got the benchmarks from.
ATi's marketing manager knowingly or unkowingly, I think he knew what he was doing because of the omission of certain emails, is the basis for libel. Because without proof of what the r520 article was really for (was it really to hurt ATi's stock prices, most likely but you have to be 100% sure thats what it was for) If the benchmarks are fake there was no reason to come out and bash Sander like that, he was killing himself pretty good and still is since he hasn't provided his benchmark scripts yet.
All ATi has to do is say they are fake here are the real ones when the NDA is lifted. Simple as that. But ATi has to go out and presue prosecuation of a guy that is scorned by ATi on numerous occasions. ATi is really known for this, did you read my comment at B3D about there Dev Rel?
razor1 said:
Your view of the situation is twisted.
A person with even moderate skill at deductive reasoning would conclude that said benchmarks were not, in fact, supplied by anyone but Sanders himself. Or possibly accepted and printed when Sanders KNEW they were incorrect or invalid. The intent to mislead the public with false information in an effort to hurt ATi financially is apparent by his statements. And, if it is brought to court, Sanders MUST disclose his source for the benchmarks. Which again, I'm fairly sure was nothing outside of some arbitrary numbers pulled out of his ass.
I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. But, history does show Mr. Sanders as being something along the lines of a lunatic, in any case, and history has a bad habit of repeating itself.
Learn to put two and two together. Only very occasionally will it equal something other than four.
eno-on said:
I'm not going to make judgement on what I don't know, if you think you are a mind reader be my guest.
Sander could be wrong I'm not saying he isn't wrong, but after seeing the emails, ATi went out and purposefully hurt him for no reason if those benchmarks are false, and the way they did it is not correct, its like 2 kids playing in mud that was the comment I used before. As I said ATi is just as bad as Sander, they lowered themselves to his level.
How so? By stating his benchmarks erroneous or declaring his publications misleading? If Sanders published numbers that were false, both of these declarations are true.
If someone states false information about you or your service/product, you have no other recourse than to deny those statements.
Look, if the benchmarks are false, then Mr. Sanders went out of his way to maliciously attack ATi, and hurt them financially. That is illegal, and wrong.
Let's put it in smpler terms.
Your new girlfriend, with whom you haven't yet slept with yet, wants you to go down on her, without an immediate return on your investment 'down under'.
You pass on the invitation that evening.
The next night, you're ready to get all up in that, and you find she's not willing to do so because of your refusal to take care of her the previous evening.
You get angry at being denied the golden apple for having refused the copper kiwi, so you plot revenge.
You then spread rumors that shes a slut, and not as good a lay as your last girlfriend in a few situations, even though you haven't actually slept with her, and that you could drive a beoing 747 through her vagina, though most of your colleagues are having a hard time believing you've actually been near it.
Said girl then lets people know what actually happened, even though it may be slightly coloured even more in her favour than needed.
That's what I'm guessing happened, Make the connections where you need to.
If someone states false information about you or your service/product, you have no other recourse than to deny those statements.
Look, if the benchmarks are false, then Mr. Sanders went out of his way to maliciously attack ATi, and hurt them financially. That is illegal, and wrong.
Let's put it in smpler terms.
Your new girlfriend, with whom you haven't yet slept with yet, wants you to go down on her, without an immediate return on your investment 'down under'.
You pass on the invitation that evening.
The next night, you're ready to get all up in that, and you find she's not willing to do so because of your refusal to take care of her the previous evening.
You get angry at being denied the golden apple for having refused the copper kiwi, so you plot revenge.
You then spread rumors that shes a slut, and not as good a lay as your last girlfriend in a few situations, even though you haven't actually slept with her, and that you could drive a beoing 747 through her vagina, though most of your colleagues are having a hard time believing you've actually been near it.
Said girl then lets people know what actually happened, even though it may be slightly coloured even more in her favour than needed.
That's what I'm guessing happened, Make the connections where you need to.
CrimandEvil
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I'm just saying I trust ATI on this about as much as I trusted NV on the NV30, not very much.Russ said:
heh
Well like many other self-important editors (who I won't name), I contacted my reliable* insider friend that works at a Taiwanese graphics AIB and asked him to do a hardware analysis of ATi's new R520 wonder. So without further ado, here are some reliable* benchmarks:
As you can see, I too was not included in ATi's editor day shindig nor given a review sample but I taught them a lesson by getting these results from my reliable* friend at a Taiwanese AIB. Ha! That will teach ATi for not including my omniscient self in their events!
-Disgruntled Self-Important Editor
CrimandEvil
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A friend of mine that does reviews over at HTPCnews has passed along conversations he's had with their ATI rep, based on that this childish display of "you suck" that ATI is currently playing doesn't suprise me at all.razor1 said:
CrimandEvil
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Is that max, minimuim or average FPS?Shifra said:
Based on HardOCP's latest review those 7800 GTX numbers look kind of low.
eno-on said:
The whole problem is ATi took his emails out of context, from dates that don't correlate with the articles written, if you want to believe in PR BS, you are believing how they twisted the facts to thier favor. I don't see ATi being very truthful at all by not telling us the situation in its entirity by cutting and pasted certain emails. HA already understood they weren't going to the conference that was the last email before ATi closed the book on all relations.
CrimandEvil
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Yeah I know, I'm just poking alittle fun.eno-on said:
CrimandEvil said:A friend of mine that does reviews over at HTPCnews has passed along conversations he's had with their ATI rep, based on that this childish display of "you suck" that ATI is currently playing doesn't suprise me at all.
This is how they are with smaller developers and smaller review sites, because they know they can get away with it.
eno-on said:
Its happened to developers before too, so this isn't something new to me. There is no reason to trash somelse if you know what is true and what is false, there was no reason to spin this at all it was very childish, and as ethics go both sides are at fault.
Put it this way:
An AIB partner gives Mr. Sanders some benchmarks (that are his own script) of NDA protected, not yet released hardware, because they think he is being treated unfairly (you think sapphire or another company like them gives two shits about Mr. Sanders?), knowing full well that if it were to come out, that ATi would find out who it is, and possibly ruin a multi million dollar partnership?
Even if the benchamrks WERE correct, yet ATi still took it to court saying it wasn't, the source would HAVE to be brought out.
Please. That's ridiculous.
I really don't buy it.
But time will tell.
An AIB partner gives Mr. Sanders some benchmarks (that are his own script) of NDA protected, not yet released hardware, because they think he is being treated unfairly (you think sapphire or another company like them gives two shits about Mr. Sanders?), knowing full well that if it were to come out, that ATi would find out who it is, and possibly ruin a multi million dollar partnership?
Even if the benchamrks WERE correct, yet ATi still took it to court saying it wasn't, the source would HAVE to be brought out.
Please. That's ridiculous.
I really don't buy it.
But time will tell.
eno-on said:
Most likely he has a source at an AIB partner that provided him with information without authority.
I fairly doubt that information leakage of this nature would endanger any multi million dollar partnership. ATI is not exactly in a position to pick and choose its partners, especially when it means giving up millions of dollars in potential revenue. Do you honestly think that ATI would drive off a partner into Nvidia's welcoming arms? I very much doubt it. At most the person who leaked the information will be fired to appease executives at ATI.
Diseaseboy
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IF ATI had this "Super fast 7800GTX killer card" waiting in the wings in a few weeks why would ATI even care about all of this? We'll see, but I'm more inclined to believe Sander at this point. They are trying to save as many sales as possible right now from Nvidia. This is nothing more than damage control.
Another question to ask too........if the 520 series of cards are so dramatically faster why would you debut X800 based Crossfire 2 weeks before the 520? Why would they try to convince customers to buy another X800 series of cards when they can buy a 520 soon? I guess you can when the 520 isn't much faster than the X800.
I may not have a website but I still consider myself part of the online hardware community. I find it as an insult when a big company like ATI picks on the little guy.
Please don't call me a !!!!!!!- as I own an ATI 9600se, 2 X800XL cards along with my 6800GT's
I am more inclined to think ATI would have just shrugged this all off if they actually had a faster product. Because they didn't leads me to believe the numbers are not that far off.
Another question to ask too........if the 520 series of cards are so dramatically faster why would you debut X800 based Crossfire 2 weeks before the 520? Why would they try to convince customers to buy another X800 series of cards when they can buy a 520 soon? I guess you can when the 520 isn't much faster than the X800.
I may not have a website but I still consider myself part of the online hardware community. I find it as an insult when a big company like ATI picks on the little guy.
Please don't call me a !!!!!!!- as I own an ATI 9600se, 2 X800XL cards along with my 6800GT's
I am more inclined to think ATI would have just shrugged this all off if they actually had a faster product. Because they didn't leads me to believe the numbers are not that far off.
Diseaseboy said:
Even though it seems crazy, people make purchasing decisions off these early benchmarks. I know more than one person on the forums who said they decided to stop waiting and bought a GTX because of the HA benches. In that case, if the benchmarks are wrong, ATI is losing sales from false information. I can see them wanting to correct that.
As far as ATI taking Sander's emails out of context, that doesn't seem true to me. I read his whole "official response," and his "jokes" as he called them, were arrogant and insulting.
This is not the case of ATI picking on the little guy. This is a case of the little guy thinking he's a big guy and can push around ATI.
Personally, I don't know why anybody gives a rats ass about this pissing contest. For all we know, it's just a couple of pissed off dudes (Sassen and the ATi rep) who aren't getting what they need at home so decide to publicly flame each other on the intarweb. Who is e-mailing who at what time and who got invited to what doesn't affect my purchasing decision in the slightest. In the end, it comes down to fps and image quality/features compared to price. Nothing more. My personal guess is that these numbers are BS, in one form or another. Either the numbers are legit, but will be improved upon by the release date, or else the numbers are a load of hooey. Here's what I see happening: R520 releases, and the benchmarks show numbers beyond what this supposed "preview" shows. Sassen says "well, I told you my numbers weren't verified, so technically I was just reporting what the AIB gave me. It's the AIB's fault that my preliminary numbers were off." We all forget that this ever happens, and Sassen is proven to be the bitter little man that he is. His loyal readers remain loyal, and we forget about him before November.
PS. It doesn't make sense to me that AIB's would have 1800XT's yet. The XL is supposed to be released first, and the other versions will trickle in after that. The fact that the preview shows 'XT' and 'Pro' models--which happened to be the models that were released last generation--and the XL (which will be the first released) isn't even mentioned, makes me think these numbers were concocted in his imagination.
PS. It doesn't make sense to me that AIB's would have 1800XT's yet. The XL is supposed to be released first, and the other versions will trickle in after that. The fact that the preview shows 'XT' and 'Pro' models--which happened to be the models that were released last generation--and the XL (which will be the first released) isn't even mentioned, makes me think these numbers were concocted in his imagination.
Brackle
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wow razor1 looses his arguement over at beyond3d so he takes his nvidia trolling to hardocp....funny shit.
Diseaseboy
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Here's another thought:
So why would ATI debut X800 Crossifire 2 weeks before the 520 if the 520 was as fast or faster than the X800 Crossfire? Maybe because it isn't......
So why would ATI debut X800 Crossifire 2 weeks before the 520 if the 520 was as fast or faster than the X800 Crossfire? Maybe because it isn't......
Diseaseboy said:
They need to have the motherboard support out for crossfire before they launch R520. So they'll launch it with X800's. Plus, the crossfire launch is very, very late. It would be embarrassing for them to launch the old tech crossfire GPU's after the R520's.
Jonsey said:
I think the embarrassment ship sailed a long time ago...everyone can tell that CrossFire is just a hack job compared to SLi...I think they're more concerned about just ordering things as logically as possible...and allocating their marketing resources as best they can...
illgiveumorality
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Terrible!
^eMpTy^ said:
Well not yet. Although I do believe more of the rumors (and they still are rumors until release) of crossfire's limitations and not HAs embarassment of a bench. I still rather wait to the official release.
But yet pretty embarrassing considering how long it's been especially since it was for the x800 series.
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