prerelease benchmarks r520

[Terra]

eh... why are they using cats 5.7?

we are already in 5.8...

They don't for the X1800 cards:

ATI Catalyst 5.7 WHQL (For ATi Radeon x1800XT og x1800 Pro er benyttet ikke frigivet Catalyst-driver)

Translated:
ATI Catalyst 5.7 WHQL (For ATi Radeon x1800XT og x1800 Pro we have used a yet not released Catalyst driver)
They used the driver ATI has send for offical approval with the new cards...

Terra - And then they note that [email protected] still bottlenecks the highendcards...both NVIDIA and ATI....

 

[neubspeed]

Sure looks like its the case of a reviewer throwing a temper tantrum like a baby to me. There is no proof for the general public that the numbers are real, or fake. But his attitude sure doesnt help his case.

Maybe he was just bullshitting to see if he could make big red squirm lol? I find it f-ing hilarious that guy posts a review and instantly everyone is looking up whether he cheated in his 6th grade spelling test.

 

[CrimandEvil]

I find it f-ing hilarious that guy posts a review and instantly everyone is looking up whether he cheated in his 6th grade spelling test.

Grasping at straws my friend, grasping at straws.

 

[Nuzzles]

You had NONE of this to show, nor can you even mention of who (if they even exsist) benched it for you. There was an NDA for a reason, and for what its worth, whoever broke the NDA by giving you such information should be shamed upon, and should lose his/her job. If you cant even get us the details on how you obtained such information (which you should be able to) then it holds no water. I see no "integrity" in your journalism.

A post from someone on Rage3D forums.

I wonder he if thinks it selling out his friend, would be integrity in jounalism. To quote Naruto: "Those who don't follow the rules are called trash, but those that don't take care of their friends are worse than trash."

 

[fallguy]

Maybe he was just bullshitting to see if he could make big red squirm lol? I find it f-ing hilarious that guy posts a review and instantly everyone is looking up whether he cheated in his 6th grade spelling test.

Sorry, no. He has registered at another forum, where this was posted. He did not deny any of it. They are trying to get his deleted post too. He posted, then deleted it.. hopefully its the cache.

Grasping at straws my friend, grasping at straws.

No? Its called not putting up with B.S. He didnt get his way, and acted like a baby. You should be backing up the people trying to oust him, but you're letting your bias get in the way.

 

[Dan_D]

I don't see this as a good thing at all for ATI. I'm sure Nvidia will release a 512meg 7800GTX with a faster clock before X-mas. ATI doesn't have a chance. This is starting to look like another "Nv30" situation- but the question remains if ATI can pull out of it as fast as Nvidia did. Good thing ATI has the XBox 360.

I don't think this is the case at all. ATi's card seems is very competetive. With driver revisions I can see it becomming very competetive. The only things that really hurt ATi this round is the fact they still don't have Crossfire available, and they lost out on all the early adopter sales this round due to late availability.

That being said, ATi as a company has nothing to worry about. They've concentrated on XBox 360 development and that was a smart move for them. That will give them far more profit than they'd see out of a sucessful run of X1800XT's. The high end market makes up very little of graphics cards sales. ATi also still is doing really well in the OEM market.

 

[Elios]

That being said, ATi as a company has nothing to worry about. They've concentrated on XBox 360 development and that was a smart move for them.

IIRC thay only devopled the chip for that then sold it lock stock and barrel to MS so theres no income for that

 

[Dan_D]

IIRC thay only devopled the chip for that then sold it lock stock and barrel to MS so theres no income for that

I'd be willing to bet that even if they sold the entire design to MS which in turn has another company manufacture the chips, they probably got more money out of MS than they would on the entire run of Radeon X1800XT's.

ATi doesn't manufacture anything, so the manufacturing contract has to go somewhere no matter what. However, ATi's getting a crapload of money no matter how it was negotiated. As I said before, they'll still make alot of money everywhere else they've concentrated their efforts. ATi's made a smart business move. However, it will lose them a certain percentage of the PC graphics card market.

 

[CrimandEvil]

No? Its called not putting up with B.S. He didnt get his way, and acted like a baby. You should be backing up the people trying to oust him, but you're letting your bias get in the way.

What bias? I already posted that I didn't believe the "review," I just think it's fun messing around with the fan boys.

 

[fallguy]

Its pretty apparant you are bias. Please dont try to deny this " " But good job admiting to trolling... ?

 

[BullsEyeBob]

Would you stop quoting him please??? LOL I can't /ignore those.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Its pretty apparant you are bias. Please dont try to deny this " " But good job admiting to trolling... ?

For future reference...if every post you make is accusing someone else of being biased or ignorant...you yourself are probably both biased and ignorant...

 

[fallguy]

For future reference...if every post you make is accusing someone else of being biased or ignorant...you yourself are probably both biased and ignorant...

I have said that I prefer ATi. I dont try to act as I do not have a bias. You have also said that you prefer NV, there is nothing wrong with that. If you have seen previous posts from him, its pretty obvious he prefers NV, and is bias towards them.

Would you call someone who thinks that we would be better off, if ATI went out of buisness? Thats not ignorance? If its not, please do tell what it is. How is having only one maker of video cards a good thing? How am I ignorant about this? Please, do tell.

 

[^eMpTy^]

I have said that I prefer ATi. I dont try to act as I do not have a bias. You have also said that you prefer NV, there is nothing wrong with that. If you have seen previous posts from him, its pretty obvious he prefers NV, and is bias towards them.

Would you call someone who thinks that we would be better off, if ATI went out of buisness? Thats not ignorance? If its not, please do tell what it is. How is having only one maker of video cards a good thing? How am I ignorant about this? Please, do tell.

So I'm biased and he's ignorant?...did you not read my post at all?

 

[Tim]

I'd be willing to bet that even if they sold the entire design to MS which in turn has another company manufacture the chips, they probably got more money out of MS than they would on the entire run of Radeon X1800XT's.

ATi doesn't manufacture anything, so the manufacturing contract has to go somewhere no matter what. However, ATi's getting a crapload of money no matter how it was negotiated. As I said before, they'll still make alot of money everywhere else they've concentrated their efforts. ATi's made a smart business move. However, it will lose them a certain percentage of the PC graphics card market.

I'm not sure how much profitability the XBox360 license gets them. It's not like they designed it and get a share of everyone sold. The deal they struck with MS says that MS owned the design upon completion, which means that they could take it just about anywhere and build it and not have to worry about ATI's protests.

 

[fallguy]

So I'm biased and he's ignorant?...did you not read my post at all?

Sure I read it. You said I was probably bias and ignorant. I am bias, and am sure I am also ignorant on many things.

But please, tell me how being without ATi would be a good thing? And is it not ignorance to post such a thing? Most people who have a slight understanding, or remember the old days, wouldnt agree that having only one high end video card maker would be a good thing. Remember when Intel had no competition.. yeah.

 

[CrimandEvil]

Its pretty apparant you are bias. Please dont try to deny this " " But good job admiting to trolling... ?

I have a preference (and yes right now it's NV because their cards fit my needs better), other then that it comes down to the "best tool for the job" to me, I try to not allow my preference to get in the way.

I give credit to ATI where it's due so I have no idea what you're talking about here:

If you have seen previous posts from him, its pretty obvious he prefers NV, and is bias towards them.

Personally I would like to see some of these "examples" but I doubt you can find such posts.

Anyways, enough arguing with a fan boy....

'm not sure how much profitability the XBox360 license gets them. It's not like they designed it and get a share of everyone sold. The deal they struck with MS says that MS owned the design upon completion, which means that they could take it just about anywhere and build it and not have to worry about ATI's protests.

Yes MS is the one that owns the design of the chip, I really wonder how ATI could make a "crap load of money" from it if they don't own the design in the first place. It doesn't really mean much (the 360 deal) in the end if MS can go to who ever and have them manufacture the chip.

 

[^eMpTy^]

Sure I read it. You said I was probably bias and ignorant. I am bias, and am sure I am also ignorant on many things.

But please, tell me how being without ATi would be a good thing? And is it not ignorance to post such a thing? Most people who have a slight understanding, or remember the old days, wouldnt agree that having only one high end video card maker would be a good thing. Remember when Intel had no competition.. yeah.

I never said anything about losing ATi being a good thing...I just said that you talk too much shit and you need to keep your mouth shut because you're really turning into a grump...and nobody likes a grump.

 

[Bowen]

The XL is very similar in performance to the XT. ATi said that they had not released any R520 XT boards to any partners yet, hence the R520 XT benchmarks from Hardware Analysis being fake. Didn't anyone think that they simply O/Ced a R520 XL to XT speeds??? The only difference between the XT and the XL is that the XT has it's core 50MHz faster and it's memory 75MHz faster. Everything else and I mean EVERYTHING else is identical! Both have 512MB of ram etc etc...

Personally though, I believe the scores. Despite the fact this guy is mad at ATi, do you think he's gonna ruin his web sites reputation and credibility just to "get back" at ATi? That doesn't make sense. The only reason he would risk something like that would be if the scores were true!

 

[Elios]

I'd be willing to bet that even if they sold the entire design to MS which in turn has another company manufacture the chips, they probably got more money out of MS than they would on the entire run of Radeon X1800XT's.

ATi doesn't manufacture anything, so the manufacturing contract has to go somewhere no matter what. However, ATi's getting a crapload of money no matter how it was negotiated. As I said before, they'll still make alot of money everywhere else they've concentrated their efforts. ATi's made a smart business move. However, it will lose them a certain percentage of the PC graphics card market.

thay got payed in one lump sum awile back so that was already figured in to there earning for that Q

 

[Bowen]

thay got payed in one lump sum awile back so that was already figured in to there earning for that Q

Sapphire manufactures ATi cards I believe.

 

[Elios]

Sapphire manufactures ATi cards I believe.

yes but not for Microsoft >.> were talking about XBox360's vid chip

 

[Bowen]

yes but not for Microsoft >.> were talking about XBox360's vid chip

Ah ok...thought you were referring to PC cards instead of the Xbox 360

 

[Allankyoto]

To me this is just comical to the extreme. Let's sum this up shall we?

1. Guy with a hardware site has a major axe to grind with ATI. (see emails posted previously)
2. He threatens in email to do something to drop their stock price.
3. He posts a 'review' where he never actually touched the hardware but it is filled with benchmarks.
4. The 'review' paints the hardware in a poor light and he proceeds to make sweeping judgements on ATI.

Does anyone see this as anything but a joke? I mean how could you possibly take it seriously?

Oh wait, my friend works over at SGI, I'll get him to run some benchmarks and post a 'review'.

He even has the balls to post in the title of the review 'We put it up against the capable GeForce 6800 and 7800 series to see how it performs' Obviously that 'we' doesn't include himself...

 

[razor1]

To me this is just comical to the extreme. Let's sum this up shall we?

1. Guy with a hardware site has a major axe to grind with ATI. (see emails posted previously)
2. He threatens in email to do something to drop their stock price.
3. He posts a 'review' where he never actually touched the hardware but it is filled with benchmarks.
4. The 'review' paints the hardware in a poor light and he proceeds to make sweeping judgements on ATI.

Does anyone see this as anything but a joke? I mean how could you possibly take it seriously?

Oh wait, my friend works over at SGI, I'll get him to run some benchmarks and post a 'review'.

He even has the balls to post in the title of the review 'We put it up against the capable GeForce 6800 and 7800 series to see how it performs' Obviously that 'we' doesn't include himself...

The email dates are messed up,.

ATI writes on Thursday September 08 at 10:37 AM, Sander replies on 08 September 2005 at 09:39 AM

don't ya love soap opera's

 

[Marcdaddy]

Doesnt matter At the moment who is telling the truth, This damages ATi regardless. Its like accussing a Celebrity of RAPE even if they didnt do it the guilt and suspesion are there. Hopefully when the smoke clears all these rumors are just rumors, If and when the final Benchmarks are officially released and if they are EVEN CLOSE TO THE LEAKED NUMBERS, how can ATi save face then?

 

[fallguy]

The email dates are messed up,.

ATI writes on Thursday September 08 at 10:37 AM, Sander replies on 08 September 2005 at 09:39 AM

don't ya love soap opera's

They are right. It goes from the bottom up. The bottom was the first email, then the one from ATi, then the last from Sanders. The dates and times are correct. Assuming that Sanders email was in the PM, it doesnt say.

Besides, this has been posted where Sanders has seen it, and replied. He did not deny it wasnt true.

 

[Endurancevm]

You people realize that if the numbers were leaked and true, then ATI wouldn't say anything just like nVidia didnt say anything when their 7800 pics and specs were leaked.

That said, ATI blatantly said it was a hoax and the numbers are false...I mean really, they are.

 

[Netrat33]

And if they are real, how are you going to feel?

I want to see numbers from a retail card (not a preview or engineering sample). I won't even read "press release" benchmarks that are posted. I want to see numbers from a card that can be purchased at Newegg or another vendor. When the GTX was released, numbers were posted from BFG and EVGA cards. Hopefully we will see retail card benchmarks and not ATI supplied cards.

I ..wont feel anything at all...WHAT'S YOU POINT DUDE? I'm not going around making retarded claims like "Figures!" Or "ownd!"

HELLO?! are you reading my posts? I already said IF these are real numbers I'd buy a gtx, if they are fake I will see later which I would take these "benches" like I'd accept a bag of crap. You just stated the same thing I've been saying: I'll wait till i see actual benches for released and available cards which everyone is stating they are planning to do. We'll ALL SEE.

 

[fallguy]

I want to see numbers from a retail card (not a preview or engineering sample). I won't even read "press release" benchmarks that are posted. I want to see numbers from a card that can be purchased at Newegg or another vendor. When the GTX was released, numbers were posted from BFG and EVGA cards. Hopefully we will see retail card benchmarks and not ATI supplied cards.

If memory serves, [H], AT, FS, and others didnt have BFG or EVGA cards. Where did you see reviews with BFG and eVGA cards? That didnt happen for a few weeks from what I remember.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451&p=7
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7800_gtx/
http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LDY=

Unless I missed it, nobody says what brand of card its from, and they all have nVidia sticker on them. Looks like an engineering sample to me. Did you read those? I hope not.

 

[^eMpTy^]

If memory serves, [H], AT, FS, and others didnt have BFG or EVGA cards. Where did you see reviews with BFG and eVGA cards? That didnt happen for a few weeks from what I remember.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451&p=7
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7800_gtx/
http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzg0LDY=

Unless I missed it, nobody says what brand of card its from, and they all have nVidia sticker on them. Looks like an engineering sample to me. Did you read those? I hope not.

I also recall at least one or two sites having initial benchmarks of a retail card and not the reference card...I don't remember who it was...but here's a list of the reviews if anyone wants to look...

http://www.gpureview.com/GeForce-7800-GTX-card-310.html

 

[razor1]

They are right. It goes from the bottom up. The bottom was the first email, then the one from ATi, then the last from Sanders. The dates and times are correct. Assuming that Sanders email was in the PM, it doesnt say.

Besides, this has been posted where Sanders has seen it, and replied. He did not deny it wasnt true.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sander Sassen - Hardware Analysis

> Sent: 08 September 2005 09:39
> To: Andrzej Bania
> Subject: Re: Editors Day
>
> So you're telling me I'm not invited is that it? I feel an ATI column
> coming
> up, lets see if we can drop the stock price shall we?
>
> Sander Sassen
> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrzej Bania"
> To: "Sander Sassen - Hardware Analysis"
> Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 10:37 AM
> Subject: RE: Editors Day
>
>
>> Hi Sander,
>>
>> We submitted a list of media in our region about a month ago - and it
>> was down to Munich to decide where to send invites
>>
>> They have the budget etc
>>
>> We will have very limited places on the day - so there will definitely
>> be a tour straight behind any main event to make sure we see as many
>> people as possible :~)
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Andrzej Bania
>> PR and Marketing Manager
>> Northern Europe & South Africa
>> ATI Technologies
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sander Sassen - Hardware Analysis
>> Sent: 08 September 2005 09:14
>> To: Andrzej Bania
>> Subject: Editors Day
>>
>> Will I be there is the question?
>>
>> Sander Sassen
>> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com
>>

the times were messed up

and he did deny it, that comment was a joke that was based on a conversation he was having about the 5.8 driver shimmering.

 

[Apple740]

the times were messed up
that comment was a joke that was based on a conversation he was having about the 5.8 driver shimmering.

Could be they are in a different timezone.

The last email Sander sent (where he "threats" with lowering stock prices) was 25 minutes after his email in which he says "Will I be there is the question?".
So it looks like he threats because he didn't get an invitation, nothing to do with shimmering.

 

[emailthatguy]

benchmarks true or not, the opengl drivers are still going to suck w/ it. aparently theres a severe allergy to opengl in canada or something

 

[razor1]

Could be they are in a different timezone.

The last email Sander sent (where he "threats" with lowering stock prices) was 25 minutes after his email in which he says "Will I be there is the question?".
So it looks like he threats because he didn't get an invitation, nothing to do with shimmering.

even in different time zones Outlook express or Outlook takes from the time from the windows clock.

He explained the threat already at B3D, I asked him about that too and specifically stated it sounded like a threat, and then I noticed the times, and he explained that it was a joke concerning the article about shimmering, which that does coincide with the shimmering article timing. So if this was from one computer at ATi or one message on the same computer from ATi then the timings will not be messed up.

Well doesn't really matter we will see if this is BS or not in a couple of weeks.

 

[Shifra]

even in different time zones Outlook express or Outlook takes from the time from the windows clock.

He explained the threat already at B3D, I asked him about that too and specifically stated it sounded like a threat, and then I noticed the times, and he explained that it was a joke concerning the article about shimmering, which that does coincide with the shimmering article timing. So if this was from one computer at ATi or one message on the same computer from ATi then the timings will not be messed up.

who fucking cares sherlock?

raise your hand if you give a shit about email times or whats in any email is fact or fiction!


now lets get one thing very clear here. There is only ONE thing someone can benefit from continously saying these are real from, ONE thing, thats getting someone to buy a GTX or GT now or making themselves feel more secure. Thats it, thats all they can gain. The cards are still not out, the NDA is still not up, these benchmarks SERVE NO PURPOSE, real or fake they are USELESS. It would be like getting benchmarks of the Voodoo 7 or the Geforce 14, who the hell cares the card is not out. By denying it you keep skeptisism where it should be, by praising it, you're being an idiot. Its that simple.

 

[razor1]

who fucking cares sherlock?

raise your hand if you give a shit about email times or whats in any email is fact or fiction!

? err

Why don't you ask him yourself. If you can't talk like an adult get out of here.

 

[stelleg151]

Ive never heard of Hardware Analysis as a reputable source for information, but think about all of the attention they are getting now. Regarding whether or not they will lose credibility, did they ever have it to begin with?

 

[razor1]

Ive never heard of Hardware Analysis as a reputable source for information, but think about all of the attention they are getting now. Regarding whether or not they will lose credibility, did they ever have it to begin with?

along time ago they did they used to be the biggest tech site till a buyout occured then they lost alot of following. But Sanders has been a very good reviewer for along time, its not like him to go around burning bridges and making false accusations without trusting where he got that information from.

 

[razor1]

who fucking cares sherlock?

raise your hand if you give a shit about email times or whats in any email is fact or fiction!


now lets get one thing very clear here. There is only ONE thing someone can benefit from continously saying these are real from, ONE thing, thats getting someone to buy a GTX or GT now or making themselves feel more secure. Thats it, thats all they can gain. The cards are still not out, the NDA is still not up, these benchmarks SERVE NO PURPOSE, real or fake they are USELESS. It would be like getting benchmarks of the Voodoo 7 or the Geforce 14, who the hell cares the card is not out. By denying it you keep skeptisism where it should be, by praising it, you're being an idiot. Its that simple.

You get one thing into your head, talk like an adult not a boy that has been slapped around so many times it isn't funny