Path of Exile vs Diablo 3

big_aug said:
Actually, I think it's the other way around. FFA causes people to play alone.
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And there you have it: two differing (and distinctly opposite) opinions. That's pretty much how all the threads have gone on their forums as well.
 
I have to admit, in regards to FFA loot vs. Instanced/other. I have spoken to 10-15 guys on my vent, been playing with these guys for years now, and they all agreed that FFA loot is a terrible idea. I am on the fence even with the 'timer' system, as I feel it is just throwing a band-aid on a deep cut. Why not just have instanced loot, epecially if loot is RNG -- why not RNG to everyone.

I guess it makes more sense to me to have it this way for a loot game that in time will be free2play. I can't imagine the rage that will commence when servers,pub games are being botted buy bot looters and players making tank builds where they never die and still all of the loot.

Currently in a closed beta I can see how FFA loot could work, but once it goes F2P, no way.

FFA loot might be the main reason why their are very few players in public games.
 
naticus said:
Also why on earth is their FFA loot? FFA loot is an archaic system for a MP game.
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As a couple others mentioned there are raging threads about this on the PoE forums.

I am one of the people who think instanced loot is better but there are other very vocal people over there who disagree.

What I have done to mitigate is to play in very small pugs of 2 or 3 people to find out who is cool. I'll talk to them and see where they stand. I've been able to make a few friends who are very good about loot. Every piece of rare gear that drops can be picked up by whoever after the timer runs out - but the person who picks it up immediately id's it and shows it to the group (even if it had their name). If someone needs it they get it. If a unique drops whoever had their name on it gets first dibs but then if they don't really need it and someone else does then the need usually gets it. It has been working out very well among my circle of friends. We also trade gear and orbs to each other at very good rates.

Just last night I put a very good wand i had crafted with an alchemy orb into WTS on general and was asking for 3 chaos orbs. One of my friends I said he wanted it. I told him he could have it for only the alchemy I spent making it. Went to the terraces to trade and he dropped an alchemy and two chaos for me.

If during a random pug you find an asshole - and there are some of those - you put them on your ignore list and don't worry about them anymore.
 
FFA loot adds NOTHING to the game.

I can't think of a single valid argument for it. It's the one thing that D3 really got right. It completely eliminates any issues that could arise from people loot whoring which can happen even amongst friends.

Anyway, I think PoE has some cool features, but Diablo 3 is far and away the better game. As much as I like to trash D3, I put hundreds of hours into it. I reinstalled it today and started from scratch. It was fun clearing up through the skeleton king. I find PoE to be really boring. All of the skills I've used are really boring. I've played a couple classes and they all seem the same. They probably would have been better off not doing classes at all and going all in with the gem thing.
 
naticus said:
I have to admit, in regards to FFA loot vs. Instanced/other. I have spoken to 10-15 guys on my vent, been playing with these guys for years now, and they all agreed that FFA loot is a terrible idea. I am on the fence even with the 'timer' system, as I feel it is just throwing a band-aid on a deep cut. Why not just have instanced loot, epecially if loot is RNG -- why not RNG to everyone.

I guess it makes more sense to me to have it this way for a loot game that in time will be free2play. I can't imagine the rage that will commence when servers,pub games are being botted buy bot looters and players making tank builds where they never die and still all of the loot.

Currently in a closed beta I can see how FFA loot could work, but once it goes F2P, no way.

FFA loot might be the main reason why their are very few players in public games.
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Have you played much multiplayer PoE yet? There is so much loot dropping that one player couldn't dream of stealing everything. A player that hogs up a bunch of drops all at once will have no room for anything else. Between the timers, inventory space, and the pace of multiplayer games, the game design doesn't promote one player getting everything. My main character is a ranged Witch and I've had no trouble grabbing the items that have been 'reserved' for me by the system.

For loot, there's also the fact that white items can be just as valuable as orbs or rares. The various orbs are clearly identifiable as "currency" items, but white items with correct sockets (especially 5-6 links) are very valuable too. Rares may or may not be worth the stash space. Even if you lose out on some items here and there, you'll also find yourself in position to grab extra stuff too that people either miss, leave behind, or just don't want. There's no shortage of loot on any level, so if you play you'll find good stuff.
 
big_aug said:
FFA loot adds NOTHING to the game
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I tend to agree but that is just our opinions. There are a lot of people who feel exactly opposite. I just don't play with those people.

The final decision is still up in the air. It may come down to the party leader being able to decide if loot is FFA or instanced - and you'll know what type of group it is before you join. What surprises me though is the FFA people don't like that idea either - they think everyone will create instanced groups instead of FFA. Hello? If that happens it means FFA isn't the most popular mode and they can create their own FFA group.

Feel free to join one of the many threads on the PoE forum about it - there are plenty long heated ones to choose from. We don't need to make the next 20 pages of this thread about that one issue since the devs won't be reading this thread.

About yoru comment on d3 being the far and away better game - at this point I've put more hours into PoE and am still having a lot of fun. Diablo has been deleted from my drive and I don't miss it a bit. There are some things about d3 that are better but overall I grew tired of it's MAJOR loot flaws. Even with FFA in PoE I get much more and much better loot than I ever did in D3.
 
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Just found this GEM in the Diablo 3 thread:

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/co...vid-brevik-discusses-his-feelings-on-diablo-3

The creator of the Diablo franchise is disappointed in D3 too. LoL.

Here a are a few quotes from the interview:

David Brevik creator of Diablo said:
it was a very different game than I would have created, the team and personalities, the people, the talent and all the design philosophies of the people that worked on it in Irvine, we called them Blizzard South, those people have their own style and the their own way they like to design. It was very, very different from the Blizzard North

I am sad because people are outraged and, you know, some of the decision they have made are not the decisions I would make and there have been changes in philosophy and that hasn’t gone over very well.

It’s a shame that they had to learn some of these painful lessons.
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I've had good luck with loot sharing in PoE as I think the community is better. I don't really care about FFA vs. instanced. People are actively trading in PoE at a much higher rate just becuase it doesn't have a passive AH anyway. There is little draw to loot shit and sell it for 30million gold since everything is barter based. More emphasis on looting items that help your character. Rarely there is that loot whore guy that grabs everything, but you just don't group with those guys and their inventory fills up really quick anyway. If you're already playing with friends, who cares?
 
robble said:
I tend to agree but that is just our opinions. There are a lot of people who feel exactly opposite. I just don't play with those people.

The final decision is still up in the air. It may come down to the party leader being able to decide if loot is FFA or instanced - and you'll know what type of group it is before you join. What surprises me though is the FFA people don't like that idea either - they think everyone will create instanced groups instead of FFA. Hello? If that happens it means FFA isn't the most popular mode and they can create their own FFA group.

Feel free to join one of the many threads on the PoE forum about it - there are plenty long heated ones to choose from. We don't need to make the next 20 pages of this thread about that one issue since the devs won't be reading this thread.

About yoru comment on d3 being the far and away better game - at this point I've put more hours into PoE and am still having a lot of fun. Diablo has been deleted from my drive and I don't miss it a bit. There are some things about d3 that are better but overall I grew tired of it's MAJOR loot flaws. Even with FFA in PoE I get much more and much better loot than I ever did in D3.
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What you described as your way of mitigating douchebags in a FFA loot system - building a friends list of players that share your style - is precisely why I like the FFA loot system: it allows people to affect the game how they choose.

Lots of players will play a certain way if they see you are willing to play in the same fashion, but it has to start with someone. Sometimes just being nice or friendly to another player will garner you the same attitude in return, sometimes it's as simple as not grabbing an item that you could have, sometimes it's offering them a good item that you found and think would benefit them. That is how I play the game, and with that in mind it sounds like you and I would get along just fine in-game - yet I do like FFA loot.

I found in D3 multiplayer that people rarely talked to one another and there was really no reason to interact beyond clicking the same monsters. I think it was a direct result of the fact that a large portion of the gameplay experience (the loot) was not shared between the players in the game, which was further exacerbated by the removal of most of the party-affecting elements from D2 (auras, most of the warcries. etc.).

In short, I like the human element involved in a FFA loot system. I prefer that the players dictate how the game plays out rather than having everything segregated and simplified in the name of keeping everything "fair" and free of potential conflict.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
I've had good luck with loot sharing in PoE as I think the community is better. I don't really care about FFA vs. instanced. People are actively trading in PoE at a much higher rate just becuase it doesn't have a passive AH anyway. There is little draw to loot shit and sell it for 30million gold since everything is barter based. More emphasis on looting items that help your character. Rarely there is that loot whore guy that grabs everything, but you just don't group with those guys and their inventory fills up really quick anyway. If you're already playing with friends, who cares?
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I have noticed over on the PoE forums that a lot of the people calling for instanced loot haven't even played much/any PoE multiplayer. I see all sorts of claims about what people "will do" and why they'll "never play multiplayer"...yet I've played multiplayer and saw none of that stuff.

Some people consider it a form of PvP and don't think it should be "forced" on them to "have" to stop fighting monsters to pick up loot. That's the point where I feel like I'm debating with babies.
 
Aix. said:
In short, I like the human element involved in a FFA loot system. I prefer that the players dictate how the game plays out rather than having everything segregated and simplified in the name of keeping everything "fair" and free of potential conflict.
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I had totally forgotten to include the FFA loot into my long list of PoE dislikes.
I like to avoid the human element when it comes to loot because of average most people are idiots and jackasses when it comes to looting.
 
Thuleman said:
I had totally forgotten to include the FFA loot into my long list of PoE dislikes.
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I'm guessing that's because you didn't play much if any PoE multiplayer during your three hour tour.

BTW, what was wrong with D3's inventory system? Your initial thoughts on PoE included "The inventory system blows. I didn't think that after D3 it could get worse, yet it did. The PoE character inventory space way too small, it's a total joke." Of all the issues I have with D3, the inventory system isn't among them. The items filling that inventory space however...
 
Man you guys are really trying to slam Thuleman for his dislikes. Plenty of people feel the same as he does, maybe he's just one of the few to actually voice his opinions. Any reason you all feel so strongly in order to defend PoE? I didn't like it either. Are you going to try and tell me how I'm wrong or something? Are you guys trying to recruit players for GGG?

One thing I'm getting tired of though is the constant defending of PoE by saying "It's in Beta". IMO that veil has long expired. I don't know much of th history, although I do know that its been in beta for awhile. I bought in back in the winter I think. Serioulsy, is this game stuck in beta? Here's a novel idea, they could just release it and still update it. It's like they're afraid to take off the training wheels. At some point they have to just "release" it and let it ride, no?

I'm not trying to be a bizzfan or anything. I've never played a single minute of WOW. I'm a big starcraft fan and have played the Diablo franchise. But if anyone knows anything about Blizz is that their games have huge evolution cycles. Does D3 have some flaws, absolutely. But I can guarantee that it won't be the same game in a year from now. Look at how much starcraft has changed since its been out.
So if I was a betting man, I would prob bet that D3 will have a longer more fruititous life cycle than PoE will.
 
You say that being in beta can't be a "defense" for PoE, yet say Diablo 3 will be a much better game than it is in a year?
 
Well I would presume PoE will also get updated and patched after "release", right? Most games now days do. So whats your point?
 
PoE really still is in beta as there are some game breaking bugs that the GGG team is working hard to replicate so they can fix it. Also they are trying to be like old Blizzard where they don't release stuff until it's done by their standards. They want to add in at least one more act to the game before they release it. If the base game isn't even up to their standards then I think it's a good call to polish it more. See Torchlight 2.

None of the players have seen what the cosmetic upgrades will even remotely look like in the cash shop, so that has to be tested. They just ran their first pvp event a week or so ago so tons of testing to be done there still as it was only low level pvp testing for a few hours. After the first round of pvp testing they admitted to hunters being OP and reprogrammed their damage type. The player designed items still have to be implemented into the game. They want to redo the combat animations and even the buffing system as it requires you to stop and cast them. Way too many more things to mention, and it all screams beta quality.

So yes, it's still in beta at this point. Some of us are just having way too much fun playing it as the parts that they released are really polished. And I apologize to Thuleman if I offended him, but some of the things he was complaining about I think he could have asked "How do you do it?" and someone could have answered him. I'm not a PoE apologist; but I really do have fun playing the game.

Off topic but as far as the FFA loot goes I love it! Teaches you fast to leave junk on the ground until the end of the run. I have my nephews so attuned to click first and ask questions later that they can survive any loot whores they may encounter. The timer gives you plenty of time to make a decision to leave it or grab it. Of course we still drop items and let everyone contemplate it's net worth to them, then distribute it to the lucky guy who needs an upgrade.

:)
 
Rdzona said:
Lolz
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That's just it. Diablo 3 was released as a shell of a game. With PoE, they are working to have a rich and rewarding game at release. Most people want a "finished" game at release rather than waiting on a year of patches to fix unbalanced and broken content.

So, with PoE, we already have far better character progression, build diversity, the loot is off the charts better, end game, the atmosphere is better and the whole economy is far more rewarding. Those are core aRPG elements. That leaves Diablo 3 with ... smoother melee animations. Sure, patches will make Diablo 3 better, I hope. It just doesn't cut it right now when comparing a $60 game to a free game.
 
Well I guess thats kind of my point. PoE, and D3 both cost X dollars at the moment to play? One's in beta and one's not. Both are getting upgrades and patches. So whats the difference?

And don't just say 10 dollars. Because 10 dollars might be a lot of money to someone and 60 dollars might not be that much to someone else. Point is they both cost some amount of money to play at the moment. "Beta" is kind of an ambiguous term in the gaming industry. I just feel like with how long its been talked about and not really seeing and end to their charged "beta", that its hurting them more than helping them at this point. GW2 is a pretty huge open world game and they have a true closed beta and they are releasing in a week I believe. I just think the development cycles of these small indie startups is what usually hurts them.

Personally I've already paid for the beta and have pretty much moved on. I feel like you have a certain window to grab customers and theirs is slipping away. Just like D3. People clearly left and many won't come back no matter what changes are made. Well I feel the same way with PoE.
 
PoE is adding more players every day. It will be flooded once it goes completely live because it will be 100% free. There will be no reason not to try it.

You don't have to pay $10 to get in, there is a beta key lotto system if you're willing to wait. Many of us have passed out free friend keys as well.

Content will continue to be added, for free. There will be additional acts added, more end game maps etc.

I think it's great, lots of innovative new features for the genre.
 
You know if Blizzard had done the same as Grinding Gear Games and released a beta that allowed you to play until max level to fully test Diablo 3, I believe they would have been in a much better game play state overall. The waiting for a patch to add actual fun obviously got old with lots of their customers.

For the few problems that I have an issue with in D3, they sure picked the most important core game systems to botch for the sake of making the game easier to grasp. When your core game doesn't realize it's potential, then your entire game suffers.

I think I said in another thread that if they had fixed their problems I would have given the game a 95/ 100. As is I can't go above 65 / 100 rating because Inferno is where you're going to spend 99% of your game time as a fan of the genre and series and it's plain broken.

The pure reliance on numerical stats instead interesting spells was a boring failure. The RMAH and regular AH are just a faceless, nameless, bragging spot for showing off what you got by pure luck. Nobody even knows your name so you can't achieve rock star status within the community unless you stream.

Bosses that one shot you before they really show up on your screen was one of the worst "features" ever in a video game. I remember being so stoked after finally getting out of Act I Inferno and some imp like creature threw the world's smallest fireball from off the screen perfectly at my feet and killed me 5 minutes into Act 2. Took about 2 more deaths before I saw what was killing me. Not going to get into the yellow bee bullets on brownish yellow sand...

Yes, D3 is getting patched and slowly they are adding in things like an armory, properly tuning bosses, etc. But why didn't they just do like GGG and test before they released the game? Was it worthwhile to release a game that should have been 95 / 100 rating in a 65 / 100 state?
 
Thuleman said:
Trollolololol
Just because I can use a screwdriver to pound a nail into the wall doesn't mean that I am not inclined to ask for a hammer. D3 has created an easy way to see whether an item is an upgrade or not without having to click around, PoE has not. Simple as that.
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Just one comment...

In diablo 3, there's basically only a couple ways gear is better. In PoE, you have a lot of different things to consider. What may be a better item for one build may not be for another. Sure they could code this, but if you take a look at the Passive Skill Tree and the way runes are set up (you can use everyone's moves on any character), it's up to the player to determine what is better and what is not. That is the best part about PoE for me, you get to think about builds and shit!
 
You're apparently not getting the point. WTF does it matter if one company calls it a beta and the other releases it and then they BOTH continue to add, update, patch it on a continual basis? When I paid to play PoE I gave it a 45/100. This is not going to improve just because they add "stuff". They've already lost me as a customer. They should've either made it a free open beta, or a closed invite only type beta and do all the usual marketing blah blah blah to receive attention and hype and work for a release date just like most other games do. Note GW2, thats how a game is properly developed. Should Blizz have used their closed beta to properly flush out some discrepencies with D3? Absolutely. Maybe they were too confident they had a finished game on their hands.

But back to PoE, they are using the cover of beta to hide behind but at the same time making it accessible by vitually everyone who wants to pay money. I think this may be the part that burns me most. I don't remember ever having to pay for a beta. TBH I regret my 10 dollars on PoE more than I do about spending $60 on D3. I don't even know why this thread exists tbh. Repost it when PoE gets out of their "beta" if they ever do lol. Mark my words, D3 will be the better game when we look back on its entire lifetime.
 
I got 3 uniques on Saturday morning, all of which were instantly equipped.

I saw a guy with a exploding arrow build using Quill Rain for the massive attack speed, what a mess he made of mobs. It was like watching a carpet bombing.
 
Rdzona said:
You're apparently not getting the point. WTF does it matter if one company calls it a beta and the other releases it and then they BOTH continue to add, update, patch it on a continual basis? When I paid to play PoE I gave it a 45/100. This is not going to improve just because they add "stuff". They've already lost me as a customer.
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Apparently I'm not getting the point either. What exactly are you trying to convince us of? :confused:

Rdzona said:
But back to PoE, they are using the cover of beta to hide behind but at the same time making it accessible by vitually everyone who wants to pay money. I think this may be the part that burns me most. I don't remember ever having to pay for a beta.
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You didn't have to pay to get in. You could have waited to receive an invite. Whether you think so or not, the game is still in beta.

...Is this guy serious?
 
big_aug said:
FFA loot adds NOTHING to the game.

I can't think of a single valid argument for it. It's the one thing that D3 really got right. It completely eliminates any issues that could arise from people loot whoring which can happen even amongst friends.

Anyway, I think PoE has some cool features, but Diablo 3 is far and away the better game. As much as I like to trash D3, I put hundreds of hours into it. I reinstalled it today and started from scratch. It was fun clearing up through the skeleton king. I find PoE to be really boring. All of the skills I've used are really boring. I've played a couple classes and they all seem the same. They probably would have been better off not doing classes at all and going all in with the gem thing.
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The valid argument FOR FFA, would be that you can see what other people pick up. You have no idea in D3 if the person you played with just got that drop you've been waiting for but instead is going to sell it on AH. That's why i've only played with friends in D3. The sense of community is non-existent.

Also, the classes in PoE are more of a formality... they're just starting points on the tree, so they've basically done what you said.
 
Rdzona said:
You're apparently not getting the point. WTF does it matter if one company calls it a beta and the other releases it and then they BOTH continue to add, update, patch it on a continual basis? When I paid to play PoE I gave it a 45/100. This is not going to improve just because they add "stuff". They've already lost me as a customer. They should've either made it a free open beta, or a closed invite only type beta and do all the usual marketing blah blah blah to receive attention and hype and work for a release date just like most other games do. Note GW2, thats how a game is properly developed. Should Blizz have used their closed beta to properly flush out some discrepencies with D3? Absolutely. Maybe they were too confident they had a finished game on their hands.

But back to PoE, they are using the cover of beta to hide behind but at the same time making it accessible by vitually everyone who wants to pay money. I think this may be the part that burns me most. I don't remember ever having to pay for a beta. TBH I regret my 10 dollars on PoE more than I do about spending $60 on D3. I don't even know why this thread exists tbh. Repost it when PoE gets out of their "beta" if they ever do lol. Mark my words, D3 will be the better game when we look back on its entire lifetime.
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I think you're going off the deep end here. You didn't have to pay for anything. Starter packs gets you access and currency, but it is not required to play the game.

I'm not going to speculate which game will be better in 5 years time. I don't think either of us will be playing D3 nearly that long. Maybe you're just being defensive because of those troll posts from that guy in the other thread.
 
Skizzy said:
Apparently I'm not getting the point either. What exactly are you trying to convince us of? :confused:



You didn't have to pay to get in. You could have waited to receive an invite. Whether you think so or not, the game is still in beta.

...Is this guy serious?
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Umm, I thought this was a compare and contrast thread.

And yes I did - I've had an account for prob six months and I've yet to get a key (as of last time I actually logged in that is) Are u serious?
 
Rdzona said:
Umm, I thought this was a compare and contrast thread.

And yes I did - I've had an account for prob six months and I've yet to get a key (as of last time I actually logged in that is) Are u serious?
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It is compare and contrast, but I've never heard of someone trying to compare and contrast by predicting the future success of the games. :confused:

Well, that's just bad luck, not everyone gets picked, it happens in almost every beta. Is this your first time playing a "closed" beta? Are you one of those guys who pay hundreds of dollars for a key from eBay?
 
IMO the PoE community stands out as a good one. Let's try not attacking folks that didn't enjoy it ;)
 
It doesn't seem so much like attacking people who dislike it, but attacking people spreading misinformation about it.
 
Skizzy said:
It is compare and contrast, but I've never heard of someone trying to compare and contrast by predicting the future success of the games. :confused:

Well, that's just bad luck, not everyone gets picked, it happens in almost every beta. Is this your first time playing a "closed" beta? Are you one of those guys who pay hundreds of dollars for a key from eBay?
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Seriously dude, you can knock it off with the condescending tone and implying some form of stupidity. I paid the bare minimum 10 dollars off of the site directly. And no this is not my first time if that has anything to do with well....anything. I've been in closed betas that have had nda's tied to them. Are you one of those guys that makes ridiculous comments on forums to troll people?
 
MavericK96 said:
It doesn't seem so much like attacking people who dislike it, but attacking people spreading misinformation about it.
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There is a bit of misinformation, true. I think some of what people are having issue with is that to really enjoy PoE for what it is, you do have to do some research into how things work. A lot of people want to be able to just pick it up and go. With this, it's best to read the new users FAQ as well as the dev FAQ before you start. Maybe the vendor recipe list as well. A little foreknowledge helps a ton in figuring out the ins and outs. Basically it is just tailored more for the hardcore element. Not everyone is going to like that.
 
LeninGHOLA said:
There is a bit of misinformation, true. I think some of what people are having issue with is that to really enjoy PoE for what it is, you do have to do some research into how things work. A lot of people want to be able to just pick it up and go. With this, it's best to read the new users FAQ as well as the dev FAQ before you start. Maybe the vendor recipe list as well. A little foreknowledge helps a ton in figuring out the ins and outs. Basically it is just tailored more for the hardcore element. Not everyone is going to like that.
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And yet that is what makes it so great. I'm not going to read any of that because i like figuring out how things work.

There are a lot of game elements that people are familiar with--things like crit and attack speed, lightening damage, etc--but as a new player, they're arranged differently enough that you have no idea how they're going to effect you later on. Lots to experiment with and check out!
 
Yup, it is a theorycrafters dream game. I didn't read much of anything on it before I tried it out, but after my third build, I scoured the forums to find out things I was missing. I don't read build guides, but I'm learning new tricks every day.
 
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