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Our First Bioshock 2 & Eyefinity Experience

Derangel said:
I'm hoping Nvidia pushes developers to have proper multi-monitor support once they launch Nvidia Surround.
Click to expand...

I'm for open standards. I discovered the Widescreen Gaming Fourm after I purchased my Eyefinity (EF) setup and was BLOWN AWAY by the amount of community support behind multi-monitor gaming. I quickly realized that the demand for it has been around a lot longer than ATI EF and that a proprietary solution from AMD or nVidia would not advance the platform.

As a paying customer, I want games that taxes my hardware. What good is a new gaming title that give you the same experience as its predecessor?

I'm delaying my purchase of BS2 till this issue is resolved.

Kyle said:
Best Quote Ever. I am sending this to our PR guys at AMD.
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AMD has a PR team?!? Now that's funny!! :p
 
Kyle, have you tried with two projectors facing into a corner? Or maybe three projectors and a large screen? Seems to me that this would be the ultimate way to experience eyefinity. I played Quake3 a long time ago on a dual projector setup. It was awesome! I can't believe you haven"t brought up the fact that if you use projectors there are no bezels to get in your way.
 
I love how so many of these people hate on Eyefinity without even trying it in person. I honestly cant wait to save a little more cash and add 2 more LCDs and a ATI video card. I think it will be awesome.
 
cannondale06 said:
why the sarcastic eye roll at the end? the bezels being annoying is a pretty common complaint so no need to be rude about it.
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It's a common complaint for those of you who have NOT used Eyefinity. Big difference there.

Every single one of us Eyefinity users can NEVER go back to one larger monitor after experiencing the IMMENSE difference in viewable gameworld.

I myself had a nicely calibrated 40" 1080p panel as my sole PC monitor. I moved to three 23" Samsung 2343BWX to try out Eyefinity. I will NEVER go back to my one 40" monitor having experienced Eyefinity gaming (yes, I have tried swapping back and forth). Others have moved from 30" high end panels to lesser 24" triple panels. They too, will not go back to one single higher end monitor. Why is that? Surely if the bezels represent a universal stumbling block, there shouldn't be any Eyefinity users even remotely enjoying the experience right? Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 
ShuttleLuv said:
But that is based on lots of things. First, the window size. Two, people become used to accepting it as so. ETC. If you are fine with the bezels, so be it. I personally have never liked bezels in the middle of a screen with games.
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Who said anything about the middle of the screen? There's no bezel in the middle of the triple monitor setup. The center monitor shows EXACTLY what you're seeing now with your single monitor setup so surely the bezels on your current monitor will bother you as well, no? The left and right monitors only expand BEYOND what you're seeing now.
 
Watch the vid with Kyle on Bioshock 2. Clearly on the bioshock 2 logo at the beginning, there is thick black bezel border going through it. This is undeniable. When in game, yes, not so bad, but it's still there.
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Better yet, does a front windshield on a car have borders running through it? How easy would driving be if your vision of that little old lady crossing the road had black thick borders going through it?
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No, no, no. Your analogy is all wrong. Here's a much better one:

The front windshield is your center monitor. You see exactly what's in front of you as you would in a gaming world. Your driver side and passenger side windows provide peripheral view - not entirely necessary for driving but a HUGE help in coordinating your bearings within the surrounding. Now imagine taping up your driver side and passenger side windows with a black trashbag and driving with just your front windshield. It's still possible, but wouldn't it be so much better to open up the world you're seeing with the left and right windows? Bam! Eyefinity!
 
ShuttleLuv said:
Watch the vid with Kyle on Bioshock 2. Clearly on the bioshock 2 logo at the beginning, there is thick black bezel border going through it. This is undeniable. When in game, yes, not so bad, but it's still there.
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He's using 3xportrait. Most of us (I'd wager 90%) Eyefinity users are 3xlandscape. Huge difference. In 3xlandscape we are seeing exactly what you're seeing in our center monitor. The left and right monitors expand the gameworld into areas that you cannot possibly see with your single monitor without panning your mouse around like a madman.
 
phide said:
That's great. My point, however, is that some people have over-obsessive tendencies and they may come to obsess about the presence of the bezels. I find myself distracted on occasion with monitors that have an on status LED of some sort on the front. A fixation develops on that LED, I fall into an obsessive trap about it and it becomes an annoyance. Thankfully, my monitor has no such light (just a faint pinhole-sized light when it's asleep).
Click to expand...

People keep bringing up the car driving analogy because it fits this scenario perfectly. Our in car driving view is routinely blocked by pillars (A, B and C). We don't complain about them because our brain does a remarkable job of blending coordinated movement into one seamless experience. You don't tape up your drivers side and passengers side windows because the A-pillar splits your view of the road do you? Of course not. You don't notice it because your brain is combining the movement from the left, front and right windows into one non-distracting movement. Same thing with Eyefinity. The center monitor can be very much akin to the front windshield in a car. The side monitors expand your view of the game world much like the left and right windows in your car expand your view of the real world. They're ONE...IN...THE...SAME.

Now I suppose if someone's never driven a car, that person could perfectly express doubt in driving around with huge pillars splitting their view and complain about it distracting them to the point of unsafely operating the car. Of course your response would be, hey driving with the A-pillars doesn't bother me one bit (I'm hoping this is your response).
 
AlvinMaker said:
I guess the thing I am WAITING to see, and haven't, is someone who PURCHASED an Eyefinity rig and says, "I bought everything, tried it, and after a while, couldn't get over the bezels, so I sold everything and went back to a single display"...

Mabye that person exists, but it just seems peculiar that the people who feel so strongly against it don't HAVE it... Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

Odd isn't it?

Then you get those that say, hey why not just get a larger single monitor? That's like telling someone with completely blacked out side windows in their car to improve their driving experience by simply getting a larger front windshield. Wouldn't it be soo much better just to be able to see out your side windows instead?
 
Drive a sports coupe/sedan with a sharp angled windshield, then hop into a family sedan or van. Then try to convince yourself the difference isn't insanely huge.

BTW, what about those concept monitors NEC? and Alienware were showing off. The ones filled with 10000% awesomeness.
 
Godmachine said:
Kyle I'm going to directly blame you for the missing 650 dollars from my savings account (bought 2 more Asus 25.5 inch LCD's) so expect an angry email from my girlfriend :D
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Same here. I watched Kyle's Eyefinity review obsessively before taking the plunge late last year. The huge expansion in gameworld that first day of using my setup brought a huge smile to my face - the same smile I had with my 3DFX card back in the day. I haven't had too many of these moments in PC gaming and Eyefinity is definitely one.
 
lowteckh said:
Drive a sports coupe/sedan with a sharp angled windshield, then hop into a family sedan or van. Then try to convince yourself the difference isn't insanely huge.

BTW, what about those concept monitors NEC? and Alienware were showing off. The ones filled with 10000% awesomeness.
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Huh? Both sports sedan and family cars have the same number of windows, so what's your point? A much more valid comparison is taping up your side windows. Try driving under those conditions. Now remove the tape. See how thrilled you are to have that extra view? This is how we Eyefinity users feel.

Oh, and those super expensive NEC/Alienware super wide curvey monitors? They're DLP projection. Yup, DLP projection. Low resolution, noticeable banding, thick as all hell DLP projection monitors. Did I mention super expensive DLP? And since they're projection based, they don't even have uniform focus/sharpness across the screen. Yikes!
 
cannondale06 said:
um okay. the people that bought this setup already felt like the bezels would not bother them. show me one thread where several people are not put off by the bezels. thats keeping many people including myself from really jumping on board. maybe when I get a chance to try it I will change my opinion but until then...
Click to expand...

Sigh.... How do you know the bezels will bother you WITHOUT TRYING IT? Myself and many others have actually experienced it and can tell you resoundingly that it's a non-issue. You on the other hand (and many other skeptics) are proclaiming the uselessness of said technology WITHOUT TRYING IT.

Sheesh, it's like listening to a virginal prude telling me how disgusting sex is because of all the bodily fluid and stuff... Dude, TRY IT.
 
alxnet2003 said:
Sigh.... How do you know the bezels will bother you WITHOUT TRYING IT? Myself and many others have actually experienced it and can tell you resoundingly that it's a non-issue. You on the other hand (and many other skeptics) are proclaiming the uselessness of said technology WITHOUT TRYING IT.

Sheesh, it's like listening to a virginal prude telling me how disgusting sex is because of all the bodily fluid and stuff... Dude, TRY IT.
Click to expand...
Well I myself have tried triple monitor gaming with the use of SoftTh and I myself didn't really see what the appeal is, really. But that's just my opinion :).
The shots look cool but for me it's just not as great as everyone says it is.
Oh and watching the horrible framrate now I can see why with nVidia that they require you to run SLI for triple monitors :).
 
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BallerX said:
Kyle, have you tried with two projectors facing into a corner? Or maybe three projectors and a large screen?
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Yes, I have. We did a setup at the Dallas Eyefinity Challenge. I do not have the space here to take that on personally though. Pics are down at the bottom of the linked page. We were not using WSFixer so the ratio is a bit off. The screen was about 24 feet / 7.5 meters wide.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/19/eyefinity_challenge_in_dallas_tx

alxnet2003 said:
Hey, I didn't vote. If my vote counted for landscape, that puts us at 66%. :D
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I am actually surprised Portrait is doing as well as it is in that poll. 35%. So about 1 in 3 of us. You might check out the PhysX or Eyefinity poll as well. Very interesting.

03grandam said:
Well I myself have tried triple monitor gaming with the use of SoftTh and I myself didn't really see what the appeal is, really. But that's just my opinion :).

The shots look cool but for me it's just not as great as everyone says it is.
Oh and watching the horrible framrate now I can see why with nVidia that they require you to run SLI for triple monitors :).
Click to expand...

The framerates have to do with the huge resolution we are running more than anything. Most users are not going to be pushing as many pixels as I am although some surely are. Playing it has been a good experience though. But certainly most users experiences with multi-display gaming have been poor up to now overall because we did not have the GPU power to push the pixels needed for it.

As for NVIDIA's SLI requirement for nFinity, it has nothing to do with performance. The GF100 and previous GPUs cannot physically support 3 displays from a single GPU.

I would highly suggest reading our Eyefinity Performance Review as it is a much better look at what Eyefinity is capable of in terms of a real gaming scenario.

Also, considering that his another TWIMTBP game, I think we are getting decent performance out of the box. Certainly we would could use AMD profiles. I wish they made those.
 
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03grandam said:
I think that if nVidia wanted to they could have made if so we would only need 1 GPU to run 3 monitors like AMD has, but maybe they saw that there will be some that are gonna be pushing some real high resolutions and that we would see a better experience with SLI compared to a single card solution, maybe, lol, but doubtful.
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NO. That is not what happened. NVIDIA will tell you point blank they screwed the pooch on this multi-display gaming and simply did not have the foresight that AMD did in identifying the market. NVIDIA gives AMD kudos.

03grandam said:
But like you said in the video, some users might want dual cards cause to some the framerate isn't playable. So in the end the requirements for nVidia to run triple monitors isn't so bad after all :).
Click to expand...

Obviously you have not read the Eyefinity Performance Review. A 5850 is capable of giving you a great gaming experience on 3x1 22" monitors all day long. You will see that a single 5850 will push 3x1 24" as well. MY personal experience with Bioshock 2 beyond the front room, and I played for a couple of hours last night at 3600x1920 was solid. I ran 30 to 60 FPS. The worst experience about Bioshock 2 is that the textures look like they were done for console even at high resolutions. The textures look like SHIT. A video card cannot change that, but that has been the only downside to 3600x1920 Eyefinity.

Lowering the quality to medium did not give me any FPS boost...at all. So I suspect a driver update will give us something from AMD for sure.

03grandam said:
In the end, triple monitor gaming is cool, just not for me after having tried it. maybe in a couple of years I'll try it again once they have 0 bezel displays.
Click to expand...

Noted. Maybe I will sell you my setup after I get tired of it in a couple years. ;)
 
I think this thread can do without the condescending attitudes expressed by some of you. Yes, this site is tailored to the "extremist" of the enthusiast community, but how many frequent visitors of this site really build those extreme rigs? I consider myself an enthusiast, even though I only have an i7 920, 6GB, GTX285 rig (small beans to many here). I would love to have the hardware to power an eyefinity rig, but real life tends to dictate what I can and can't afford.

If I say I'd rather have one high res monitor with the hardware to run games on it at max settings, it's because it's my own personal preference. Some of you act as if I'm insulting you because my preference differs from yours. And then to question why am I even on the thread? How many people not interested in iPads have posted in threads pertaining to it? Have we suddenly become so elitist that those of us that can't afford extreme setups are not allowed to partake in discussions about them?

And as for the bezels, you do bring up valid points, and perhaps if I were playing on such a rig I would not notice it. Then again, I tend to be OCD-ish about some things, so I can't say for sure.


EDIT:
I just wanted to add that when I refer to a high-res monitor, I am not implying that it is an alternative to multi-monitor gaming. One monitor could never provide the larger FOV that multiple monitors can. And I for one have always felt my FOV has been restricted during gameplay. I think a multi-monitor setup with something like TrackIR 5 would be wicked, but again, this is something that is currently out of my price-range. I do want to see developer support for it, and maybe years from now such a setup will come down in price and move towards mainstream.
 
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alxnet2003 said:
Huh? Both sports sedan and family cars have the same number of windows, so what's your point? A much more valid comparison is taping up your side windows. Try driving under those conditions. Now remove the tape. See how thrilled you are to have that extra view? This is how we Eyefinity users feel.
Click to expand...

Firstly, I'm excited about Eyefinity and will be setting it up once once I can justify the new video card and +2 monitors. Don't care about the bezels.

Secondly, stop with the car analogy. I can see what you're getting at, but no matter how 3D the game is, you will be watching it at a fixed focal length--in the same plane where the bezels are. It WILL bother some people in a way that struts in a car won't and they should stay away from the tech.
 
SXO said:
If I say I'd rather have one high res monitor with the hardware to run games on it at max settings, it's because it's my own personal preference. Some of you act as if I'm insulting you because my preference differs from yours. And then to question why am I even on the thread? <snip when you started comparing Apple products>
Click to expand...

I do not see where one person has had issue with someone saying, "I like my single monitor setup and I am going to stick with it." That is great. I realize that Eyefinity is not in the cards for all folks. The same as SLI was not in the cards for all folks back during Voodoo 2 or even today.

I think the big issue here has been people dispelling the ideas and virtues of Eyefinity when they have never used it. And comparing Eyefinity to a giant iPhone does not fly in my book. Now if you held up three iPads around your head..... :p

And yes I agree with your edit.....in my personal experience, the greatest benefit to Eyefinity in terms of actually changing gameplay has been driving games. I don't however play a lot of deathmatch or team DM anymore, and there are obviously HUGE benefits there as well.

And let's just say this here and now. We don't need your posts telling other people how they should react and post. If they are breaking the rules, use the report post button. If you just don't like it, use the ignore feature or close the thread.
 
I really enjoyed the video, nicely done and thank you. I still haven't played with eyefinity yet, but it's not for a lack of wanting to.

I loved your opening ditty on the viddy, very nice touch. The actual video was excellent too, I like the new video format. Kudos. :)
 
I think its time to create a thread called "please put all posts about how your prefer a TV to Eyefinity or the Bezels would bother you too much here".

I setup eyefinity even though I already have a 100+ inch projection screen. Thats comparable about 4 52-inch or 10 22-24" inch screens. I also lost performance compared to my triple 4870 setup (could only afford a 5770 or 5850 right now). The best way to explain it is that when I use my projector, my FW900 24" CRT, 39" CRT or 24" LCD I never feel like I can get close enough to the screen. With Eyefinity not only can I sit as close to the monitors because the extra resolution makes it still look nice, but I feel truly immersed. Most of the time when people get bigger screens they move farther back so it still looks nice which means that your really not gaining much actual size.
My LCD's have some of the largest Bezels around (24" Soyo) and are extra thick on the bottom (stupid speakers) so I can't quite get used to 3x portrait in shooters particularly if the character (3rd person) or weapon (1st person) gets cut off.
 
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JesterOI said:
I'll wait to buy a 42"+ 1080p plasma. I don't see the point in this tech other than for productivity.
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Am I the only one who finds it more than a little disturbing the number of people who visit this forum who can't wrap their head around the difference between physical screen size and display resolution? You'd think something like that would be common knowledge in a forum for DIY computing enthusiasts..... :confused:
 
cannondale06 said:
um okay. the people that bought this setup already felt like the bezels would not bother them. show me one thread where several people are not put off by the bezels. thats keeping many people including myself from really jumping on board. maybe when I get a chance to try it I will change my opinion but until then...
Click to expand...

Once you actually use it you'll find ignoring the bezels to be pretty easy. Personally I prefer landscape to portrait mode, but I do not find the bezels distracting at all. Seriously try it if you get a chance. Within 1 minute of playing a game on an Eyefinity setup I didn't even notice the bezels were there anymore. When driving around do you notice the A-pillar of your cars windshield? Does it seriously piss you off and detract from the driving experience? Do you even think about the pillar? My bet is that no, you don't even think about it most of the time if ever.
 
King of Heroes said:
Am I the only one who finds it more than a little disturbing the number of people who visit this forum who can't wrap their head around the difference between physical screen size and display resolution? You'd think something like that would be common knowledge in a forum for DIY computing enthusiasts..... :confused:
Click to expand...

Agreed. Some people can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept.
 
rally9x said:
I think its time to create a thread called "please put all posts about how your prefer a TV to Eyefinity or the Bezels would bother you too much here".

I setup eyefinity even though I already have a 100+ inch projection screen. Thats comparable about 4 52-inch or 10 22-24" inch screens. I also lost performance compared to my triple 4870 setup (could only afford a 5770 or 5850 right now). The best way to explain it is that when I use my projector, my FW900 24" CRT, 39" CRT or 24" LCD I never feel like I can get close enough to the screen. With Eyefinity not only can I sit as close to the monitors because the extra resolution makes it still look nice, but I feel truly immersed. Most of the time when people get bigger screens they move farther back so it still looks nice which means that your really not gaining much actual size.
My LCD's have some of the largest Bezels around (24" Soyo) and are extra thick on the bottom (stupid speakers) so I can't quite get used to 3x portrait in shooters particularly if the character (3rd person) or weapon (1st person) gets cut off.
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+1 :cool:
 
TYoda said:
Agreed. Some people can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept.
Click to expand...

Yep. It's also pretty clear from watching a video with 3x1 Landscape that to get the effect you have to be sat at the point where the game thinks the camera is, and looking at the centre screen. Most people seem to understand this as the number of 'fisheye' comments is considerably less than the 'bezel' comments.
 
If you don't like the bezels, "go mod something"

I have ripped apart lots of LCD monitors for cap or invertor replacements and the bezels often do not cover any functioning hardware. They only serve to protect the panel during shipping and look nice.

I have 2 Gateway FPD2185W 21 lcd panels lying next to me that have less than a cm metal surrounding the panel, but i've seen panels with NO bezel at all inside.

Do your homework, buy 3 used off-lease monitors, rip them apart and build a stand to support them. It would not be that difficult at all to build a bezel-less (or very slim bezel) LCD array.

I'd do it if i had the time, but i have too much stuff to fix
 
Great vid, I like seeing how it would run on an Eyeinfinity setup even though I probably won't ever own one, it's nice to see how technology advances and features like these are available to those who can get the equipment.

Once they get those issues you mentioned fixed, it'll look much better I'd imagine. Crossfire not working sucks balls man, that's an expensive video card and an expensive monitor array, for all that it had all better be working perfectly, but unfortunately that's not always the case.

I hope you guys have a blast playing through it after you guys do some more testing, it's an excellent game.
 
A lot of people try to say that Nvidia driver and ATI driver support is the same. This kind of crap is what people bitch about. Waiting a month after the game is released to have support for crossfire or some versions of eyenifity is bullshit. 3rd party tools being the only remedy? That's also bullshit. For the number of graphics cards they sell they could damn well pay someone to fix this already. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for crossfire AND eyenfinity not working on every major game released the day of the release. This isn't mall tycoon 7 either, this is freaking bioshock. Get it together already ATI.
 
I would not want to PROFILE the issue here though
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I'm surprised no one noticed this. Are you hinting that creating our own profiles are coming in the new drivers? That would be awesome!

And on the crossfire questions about Bioshock 2. You guys do realize you can run MSI Afterburner and see the usage of both GPUs anytime right? Tells you right away if crossfire is being supported. A nice added benefit of using that program is you can see how heavily the GPUs are being utilized. If you are constantly using 50 or 60%, then you know you can probably easily enable so advanced AA settings in CCC. Another nice benefit is you can enable a framerate graph just to give you a nice history (like fraps.)

I'll throw in my 2 cents about using eyefinity. I wasn't blown away as other users were when I first used it. It was nice, but I wasn't floored. Then I turned it off while messing around with a game. I felt like I was half blind. Blinders, taped up side car windows, you name it. Like I was playing my game inside a little window.

Bezels don't bother me at all in portrait as others have repeatedly stated. What DOES bother me (and I find it funny you posted a screenshot of batman, one of the worst offenders) are in game cut scenes and menus. These VERY often are not displayed correctly. For example, in TF2 the main menu is stretched across all three screens and looks horrible. Main menus though aren't usually a big deal as you see them for a few seconds then are in game. But as in batman, the game periodically zooms in to show him talking to somebody as a cut-scene rendered with the game engine. These are not done correctly as the character talking will frequently have their head half off the screen. I think whatever logic it uses to zoom in and show those scenes just doesn't know what to do with a resolution that wide.

Btw, if anyone wants to see a super immersive game in eyefinity, try X3 Terran Conflict.
 
Waiting a month after the game is released to have support for crossfire
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As a heavy user of crossfire for a while, waiting an entire month is unusual. They almost always have a hotfix come out in the meantime.

But ya it's lame when you have to rename executables to get crossfire going (or GASP not have it at all.)
 
vengence said:
A lot of people try to say that Nvidia driver and ATI driver support is the same. This kind of crap is what people bitch about. Waiting a month after the game is released to have support for crossfire or some versions of eyenifity is bullshit. 3rd party tools being the only remedy? That's also bullshit. For the number of graphics cards they sell they could damn well pay someone to fix this already. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for crossfire AND eyenfinity not working on every major game released the day of the release. This isn't mall tycoon 7 either, this is freaking bioshock. Get it together already ATI.
Click to expand...

Crossfire support is a driver issue and I agree with you on that.

Eyefinity support, on the other hand, is 100% a game issue. You really can't blame ATI if devs refuse to support proper FOV adjustment. They COULD create an official version of something like widescreenfixer, but that opens up a whole new can of worms such as anti-cheating systems thinking it is a hack, bugs and graphical glitches as a result of doing things behind the games back, etc...
 
Anyword from AMD regarding the bezel correction like what Matrox has? Just wondering when that tool/program will be available...
 
Understandably, AMD cannot "force" developers to support EF in the new game releases. Dave Baumann which leads the EF group at AMD made the follow comments on WSGF.

LINK
Dave Baumann said:
...bear in mind that an application such as Wide Screen Fixer is altering the game in some why - that's an area that we shouldn't go; you may ask how this is different from enabling control panel AA or AF, but even in those cases we are not altering the application, but altering what our driver is doing as the application code passes through it, so even in those cases we never actually alter the application.

On the game front, though, Mach is also correct in that where we are aiming for is the up front approach with the developer and evangelizing Eyefinity to them in order to get more support with the app, this of course doesn't affect older titles and will have varying results, but at the very least we'll be raising its profile. Our engagements with developers are already bearing fruit though - we've already seen Bioware update Dragon Age for triple wide and our engagement with Codemasters with DiRT 2 has also yielded good results so far.
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